DaemonDivinity
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So I tried to roll this concept up as an Elec/Regen Brute. It didn't work for me, a result of both Brutes and Regen seemingly not really being my style. I considered both Stalkers and Scrappers, settling on Stalkers primarily due to TS-autocrits and better ST damage through AS. I spent some time debating between Energy and Electric secondaries, and settled on Energy (though I don't really have a compelling reason why, other than it seemed further from my existant /DA stalker).
The incomplete build follows:
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1. Must be exemplarable effectively.
2. Too much endred? Too little?
3. Too much global recharge? Too little?
4. Should I bring in some Kinetic Combats to help versus debuffs (EA doesn't have much DDR).
5. Is my attack chain heinously wrong?
Thanks in advance for any help! -
So I haven't worked on this build a lot. I'd been more focused on my tanker (this build will follow). With him, I began to explore a lot of Incarnate content and get a feel for it.
I definitely saw that, as a result of Maneuvers, Barriers, and other similar buffs flying around the leagues, most content you can usually cross the gap from normal softcap to i-softcap by default. In solo-play, there wasn't a problem that couldn't be solved between debuffing and a purple inspiration. So the benefit for having much beyond upper-40s Defense seemed to drop off.
On top of that, I saw a lot of Resistance set numbers are being altered. This has me considering the question: is it perhaps better to use sets to enhance Resists now (to get more milage out of the scaling passive resists)? And are any of the new or revised pool powers likely to fit well? -
I found it odd, as someone who plays a DM/SR scrapper, to find anyone complaining about the direct-damage capabilities of DM. Then I observed what others have: Smite is absent, and SL is slotted as a heal. Fixing those two things should get you to the truly absurd capabilities of DM.
You could drop DC, but as others have said, you might be better off keeping it to give you the flexibility to get AoE from a pool (SM is good, but it's not sufficient as true AoE).
Honestly, much as others do, I really want to like the changes to the Fighting Pool. The problem is that SR builds in general (and especially with DM) are very, very tight as is. They need almost everything in order to cap out at a sufficient level of defense. Even then, as a Scrapper, I needed Weave to get me further along. Tough was useful. But Boxing is a speed bump, inferior to Shadow Punch in every way. I just don't have the room to fit in two more powers to make a Pool attack competitive with my DM attacks.
You may be able to fit them in at the upper 40s, but then we need to find out how exemplaring interacts with those buffs. My hunch is to say that it's not worth it.
Honestly, I wish they'd do what they did with Travel Pools, and make Tough a stand-alone possibility. While my scrapper would still want Weave, I'd imagine some Tankers could do without, and then we could drop the speed bump entirely.
So yeah, in short, try out Smite and Siphon Life for damage before jumping to conclusions on anything else. -
So I got working on the build in the last post, with a couple of minor changes:
Code:It's not done, but it's getting closer every day and it does indeed feel quite Invulnerable, as my old tanker was. I want to thank everyone for their assistance to this point. It was nice to recapture some of that feeling that made me love this game and this character so long ago.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1514;720;1440;HEX;| |78DA6594CF53525114C7EFFB4108426288A828F81043449F60B66E91D69432A1545| |B87EC052F5F4F079E4D2EFB17DCB42AD35D2DDAB4EE9FE887BFFAB9ADC96ADF3474| |78DF33E20C6F80CFBDE79E7BCEF79CFB2E8547B38157571F5F1252E0B255AED7976| |F96ED55A3E629942BE68A683E5EFAC6615D9E35EE1976DDD0AFD90F372CDBA895EF| |9896E96CC678B9605886A19736D6695C726A865D71AA22505C5BB3F405A3BC6EDA9| |5A03BB96256AA0ECD023C736CA35EEFC4C46AAE85E7D6CD157D8E325436970BE5BA| |63D436FB484796BE6F7DF42335953584985684C8AB62C22FF869A8A24848AA425D0| |4CF2C314BA07657B87BDE511C097114294983B4578CC4C1B4D6A42A3209CC758AAF| |C0D7A3B8F1BDE2EC2273090C95C0E1A3A626E247F03DE5F1B036CFBCE4E6F62F808| |102B3086A37C03DDAE3656D5ED6D49184A68E04E8D760FF40BE3EF8CABE1C0DFA54| |D19767CE80FBE4D3C9F13AD927C43EBDEC3312E5391D7890E305FF118654918A405| |7BA0794C8A70B3589AE01F4F3807274BB0D6D28DD21F89D0B3379DF08C7C9533FC3| |DC93F01EFAD4B3CF3C007B0FB98F9A70A950CE08D710B908AD83AC5DE39A521AB4A| |8E41B65DF286B89B396B8ABC52BE211F09074F7B36F3FFB0EB0DE01D69B9AC77B36| |4DBA63A8518A65A16B308B9C53B436849A3C4355D9D59331C1F1FBCC5570D2623E0| |0A3A437C1FD4CC450F73621C9B624E79AA11CA39C63F45876CFE6FC77E60FE64F30| |CDBDC83BE0CBA01063A8531A7B22BBF1325BB2BBB6A3E06E35E3669FC27FE219739| |BF91C9CDCE17A77C15DDAABF359EA9FD0A7A9CFCC2F60FE2BF31B78443DCF716D39| |EEDFA07A7287E9438FC8A82737BD31DEB69A6BB3E4DB2C17DA2C336D9685364B51E| |5B464915C8B2F44F71F96C6B1FFE47F4348933897DF2D9B2C5DC7BD546FE3FD1ABF| |8577E8D7E97D63D8F7E7F4BE61D8E42D9C8DCC67F4B797C0B9277A68CC1D79136ED| |9FD9196FDF529FB8B646BFC1F6655E551| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Of course, they're about to roll out some new changes. Nothing that will hurt this build, but apparently a lot of sets are getting improved Resists. It looks like I'm missing out (getting a bit of F/C, some irrelevant S/L, and pretty much no E/N/T/P).
Is there anything I should flip around to get a piece? I don't see a way to get a lot of E/N/T/P out of it. I was thinking that I could de-slot Tough, use it to mule the Gladiator (it work's regardless of power level, IIRC), and toss 2 in RPD with the 3x Aegis, and the one remaining in Rage for Adjusted Targeting. This might be sufficient to actually cap S/L with Tough off. Or a slot could be tossed in KO-Blow or Jab for the new Tanker ATO proc (I don't know if I should feel compelled to try and slot the whole set).
Should I even give this a second thought? Should I maybe do something like rearrange slots to get a 3x Adjusted Targeting in Rage? One interesting thought I had was reversing RPD and Tough, if the S/L bonuses totall up to 10ish, thus allowing me to cap without needing the toggle. -
I have another question.
Does Cloak of Fear conflict with Hide? As in, will Cloak of Fear automatically fire, generate aggro, and turn off Hide? Does it suppress when Hide is active? And is there a +MAG proc for CoF? -
Or, alternatively, I do what I had already admitted might be a good idea, and just drop Energy Torrent in favor of Spring attack. Energy Torrent is fun, but it can be a bit of a hassle. On the other hand, if Lightning Rod is any indication, I will love Spring Attack.
Since Spring Attack is powerful, but inexpensive and quite slow, Eradication goes there, while the 5-slot Overwhelming Force takes over in Footstomp (a slight damage cut, but excellent stats all around, especially endred).
Preserves the same overcapped S/L/E/N to withstand a drop of debuffing, and a slightly overcapped F/C.
Code:Unfortunately, I had already freespeced, so I'm stuck with the previous build for a bit. But it's not killing me yet, and i24's freespec is right around the corner.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1478;711;1422;HEX;| |78DA65945B57125114C7CF0C4323080982A02220A821A21363BEF790D62A658552B| |DBAC826989C4617602B1FFB0ABEF454668F3DF40DFA125DBC757DEDA2F9DE6AD166| |F63F742D6601BF397BEFB3CF7FEF730E85C7B3BED7D79E5C1692EF8A55AED7976F9| |5ED55A3E62E942BE68A683D2A7D136C5D9E35EE1B76DDD0AEDB8F362CDBA895EF9A| |96D9D88CC15D302CC3D04A1BEBF45E6AD40CBBD2A80A5F716DCDD2168CF2BA6957F| |CCEE0AA59A93668E4C3A8611BF57A370FAC962F34B76EAE6873B4426573B950AE37| |8CDA663FE918A7EF5B0FFD482D654D21A65D42E88A98F40A3C4D4514096945288BC| |C734B608999BA279C39EF288FC4795C529A5E32AA18493033A91615914DF258A3FC| |2ECEEF7639F955717E115C62064ACCE1C39626E247E67B5AC70D6DEE79C959DBBBC| |0F415C022337593B94B73546853A1A92BCD9ABA924C6F8AED1F28D683584F9E5EFA| |55D1AF83332D2A6234CAE33D8AEDE658B93BCFBE80CE8C2036421BEE478C3F2C393| |58C0698993E8E9128A6876B123D83DCCF7DCA1D741ADA740511D78B79BDFFF3CC73| |4F74EA67083D09EDB22DBC07EE332307E8634A3874D19A7DA8B30F3D19C2BEA546B| |07FE88942B151C446A125110643AC25016D07A47B00B103018E1984DEC12073E42F| |B9E3AA9826DD31AE518AE558D7508EEBBF48BE38CE48BC2A3B79B22673E201B8CA9| |CB2C087CC28E94DA29FC918D7BD4D48C396C65A33B4C618FA36F689CFFE85CFE017| |F02B33F38DF9CA4FF786EB93C69FCA4E9EEC96ECF876282407CDB9675CC7E473701| |B7CC19CDA419D2F995244080D73B5EF942F4EBE1FE04FA6FE0B3C028F9987D4F33C| |6ACBA37F434AFB0ED3871E9155DA37BD39D1E1CD7758F40ECBA50ECB4C8765A1C35| |254B02C5924C7E209B4EF7FF3C8DBFEDF10D214EFCBEF539B2CDDC019BCC36767E2| |36DFE9E3B3F3C679DEC9D979C36C93B7788F64ECD51FEAB38EB527C3F48E8EBC099| |DDAFF0114D2DD38| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Still going to take a while to find all the set pieces. The Gladiator's Armor, especially. Got the Shield Wall though. I have a feeling the Gladiator's Armor is going to come through E-merits. -
Okay, so I looked over that build, did a double-take, and went, "yeah, I'm dumb." Fully slotted Eradication and Thunderstrike cover the same things that my half-slotted Cleaving Blow and Maelstrom's Fury would. With extra perks to boot. I can just tough out the higher endurance cost of Footstomp.
Also, observation: the difference in my resists from slotting Aegis at level 50 versus level 25 is a whopping 1.1%, generally. Sometimes, running the level 25s will make me immune to exemplar-scaling. And, of course, doing this I get to enjoy the softcap from lvl22 on up.
No contest.
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Thanks Rangle. And everyone else who's helping.
Priorities time:
1. Do not run out of endurance.
2. Get good resists early, for partial coverage.
3. S/L defense must be soft-capped by the mid-20s.
4. F/C/E/N defense must be soft-capped in the early-30s.
This means Punch has to go, and I must tolerate lower global +accuracy, +HP, and +regen.
...
Big deal. I have Sands of Mu, Rage and Dull Pain.
Kinetic Combats and Reactive Armors will be SBEs, and so will function provide set +defense down to 17. Everything else will be crafted and slotted at listed level, assuming no one tells me I'm doing anything too crazy.
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Oh, I wasn't debating the utility of Taunt. I was debating the utility of 6 slots there. In this case, it seems to pay off.
From what I read, ATO procs fire based on the power's base activation and recharge. Thus, it actually fires more often when slotted in Haymaker. KO Blow would be slightly more reliable, but would average less procs-per-minute overall.
As the build has progressed, I'm seeing where wanting optimum high-end play comes into conflict with optimum exemplar play, and looking for resolutions. Tweaking things like Enhancement level is just a numbers game, it's actually fairly easy to get to the point where your Schedule B enhancements are less impacted by exemplaring.
Incidentally, yes Hyperstrike, that does mean I'm switching to stronger Resistance in those Armors.
One main clash seems to still be at Punch w/ Crushing Impact v LBE w/ Thunderstrike. Punch really helps in early levels, and has higher overall DPA (I once tried Boxing instead, it doesn't compare). LBE gives me another damage type (sometimes important, despite Bruised), range, and the option to try to fit another Aegis somewhere instead of Reactive Armor to fully realize soft-capping all-around.
*sighs* I'm way too practical. LBE's going to win out, and now I need to reconfigure again. And I just got a reasonable Punch animation, too.
Edit: And yes, this is going to be my main character again, provided the resulting build is anything close to how tough it once was. -
Gotta admit, this made me smile a bit. There was a time when I thought I was one of the masters of Invul. And while I'm not anymore, I'm not quite as daft as you think...
[/QUOTE]Quote:Meh? At the point I took it, it's mostly a question of "what can I get the most out of with 1-2 slots?" That means either another mule (like Maneuvers + LotG: Global) or UnS. And UnS has it's rare uses (Toxic bypasses defenses, AVs that have high debuffs and non S/L damage like Anti-Matter, emergency "there's too much End Drain to handle"). But yeah, I agree, it's not needed.Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
1: You took Unstoppable. BAD INVY! BAAAAAD!
2: You put an extra slot in Unstoppable.
I happen to really like the impact of the Might of the Tanker 2/4 split. Also, the first or second hit with Haymaker will cap my S/L resist and give me a bunch versus the rest (toggle it on and see, and realize that I FREQUENTLY have it 2x-stacked). So it's not as bad as it looks.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
3: That's actually a fairly AWESOME KO blow!
4: You're not capped for S/L resist.
5: IMNSHO, you've compromised your build for a piddling amount of psi resist. Yes, on paper, you're more durable. In practice, you just aren't going to notice the difference. A single Luck will make more difference than 21% Psi resist.
That said, totally right that the Psi resist probably isn't enough to matter. That's stuff I may just have to chew more inspirations for. Master Illusionists and Augurs will be problematic either way, so I might as well cause something else to be less problematic.
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
6: Energy Torrent? You're an Invuln tank. You WANT enemies crawling over themselves to get at you. That's how you stay capped.See, here's the thing: while you're right Canine and I have gotten good results out of Energy Torrent, it's not nearly as strong when you consider that to get a shot at the knockdown, you have to leave the comfy Invincibility over-capping buffer. In team play, making good use of this makes it harder to tank, and solo it's just rather awkward.Quote:Originally Posted by Canine
Tanker Energy Torrent is KnockDown, not KnockBack.
Mobs flopping on their back crammed round you sounds like better mitigation that mobs around you punching/stabbing/shooting/slashing at you to me
So while it can be good, it may be worthwhile to just replace it with Spring Attack or something similar.
Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
7: You've got massive slot-waste in your resists. All of it netting you less than 2% extra resist in most cases.
Your most efficient resist slotting is:Your most efficient resist slotting is:
Active Toggles: (Temp Invuln, Unyielding, Tough)
4 Reactive Armor (Res, Res/End, Res/Rech, Res/End/Rech)
Passive Autos: (Resist * powers)
3 Aegis (Res, Res/End, Res/Rech)Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
9: I know this is a "just slap it together in Mids and worry about power order later" build. But DO take some time to choose out a more appropriate power order at some point. Take RPD MUCH earlier. But you can put off ResEnergy/ResElements till later.Answering these together because they're related: the decision has to do with Exemplaring. The passive Resists and UnY get within 0.5% of the resistance of using level 50 versions, so the difference isn't that much. At the same time, it means I can reach the F/C softcap much, much earlier (late 20s). I toyed with the numbers for a bit to pull that off.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
11: Honestly, you're relying too much on Enhancement Boosters to bolster your build. And in all the areas where it counts (Def, Resist, etc), you're gaining less than a percent (in many cases, less than half a percent).
That said, with the Taunt 6-slotted I can relax some of these things.
I know you're going to be annoyed regarding this, but the RPD choice was deliberate and again about Exemplar concerns. I can nearly softcap S/L by the early 20s as an Exemplar and have massive resistance (if not quite capped) to it. I can't do so with F/C/E/N for some time though. Prioritizing REl/REn increases my durability against those types before I hit the softcap. At the same time, at the point where multiple soft-caps becomes a part of my defenses viable (the late 20s), RPD will kick in to top off the Resists and add more DDR.
It's not strictly optomized. It's more for balanced performance.
Excellent point! That's a significantly better trade than a proc and more HP.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
10: In Foot Stomp, three slot Eradication and three slot Cleaving blow. Brings your E/N within .5% of soft cap and gives the entire power a better overall performance profile.
I never really saw the value in a highly slotted taunt (I rarely had problems holding aggro), but it's a good set that relaxes requirements and everyone seems to think it's worthwhile. So I'll have to give it a try. I can also make it at a much lower level for Exemplaring, because the lvl50 version is well past the ED-caps.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
8: Taunt is criminally underslotted.
If you're soloing, it's not AS important. But if you're teaming, you really want to take and slot Taunt up.
Side-by-side, with Haymaker toggled on, their performance is fairly similar. Actually, my numbers are slightly better overall. Still, you achieve them in a different way, and I really like those Crushing Impact set bonuses.Quote:Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Here's a quickie "I fiddled with your build a bit".
Compare it side by side to your build.
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Some things to think about.
Edit/Appendix: Added a revised build, taking many of the above observations into account. The result is fairly close to the actual intent (IE: powers in the right order, most enhancements at the right level to permit exemplaring, etc... though Reactive Armors will be SBEs for better scaling and since Reactive Armors are cheap).
Build gets softcapped with a buffer on S/L, no-buffer or just shy on F/C/E/N. One Luck to reach the I-softcap in most cases. Resists are solid too. May still swap out Energy Torrent for Spring Attack. More feedback is still appreciated.
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Oops. When I said Ancient of Sorrow, I meant Ancient of Desire. Kyriani's solid Psionic defense and resistance will handle that better. That said, the Psionic defense and resistance comes at a cost of being significantly weaker against... everything else. I want to start a little closer to the softcap, with a bit of buffer against debuffs (we don't have 96% DDR).
Though a bit of Psionic resistance wouldn't hurt.
I'm considering this, now:
Code:It's weaker that yours in all it's defenses, though it still softcaps S/L/F/C, and can reach 59% in most with a single Luck. I probably should pad out E/N, but I don't see how to do that without sacrificing a bunch of Psi Resist. Actually, my resists are slightly better overall (with upswing from the Tanker proc) and my DP a bit stronger.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1440;676;1352;HEX;| |78DA65944B73124110C76760718540424208490884871148C2C212BCEAC1444B134| |A34EA95C2B8124A6A43C1C6327AF22B78F16895470F7E181F79F9BCAA15F50BA4B0| |77FB1F4CC916F0DBE9E9FF744F4F0F95C7CBFE37579F5D12D27FB955EF766BB7EBE| |643A3E3A9D41BCD0D613F2A7DE36CAD2D1B0F0CB36B68D7CC47DB2DD3E8D4EF355B| |4D6B278AE98AD1320C6D7DBB4DEFEB56C7301BD6A6F057B7B65ADA9A516F37CD46C| |0195C6936362D1AF931B24CA3DB1DE241CB9E0BADB49B1BDA0A4568ECD42AF5AE65| |747626298F39FABEF3D28FB433EBB9458A5E32AA48C799B93498632EFA049E9E22A| |A84942A949BCC33B7C07566F23E515745DE87E54923A1F141E387C6FF9F46238D9B| |351E3734C3D00C4313842671E87634898FCCF7B41F0FE27956A5639BAF30F36BE00| |D66A1CADC258DCA35F0A8457A9954C5591D2C317D4BCCF932B37081F981B45ED62A| |DE22AF37A98365E639D42F1321C614B1479A216886A009423301CD49CDF592DBE10| |4354E8035AEC038D60D32F5305392CF08EF5D8CF4E811FB1469544AE77447E13506| |D5D8C92AAB5C399DAA1E42E542BB6C1BDF03F7991307A876924FCA4D11C3E89E30B| |A66065D9444F7A4B113857C23F08D20973872888740E47640794FC1770ABED3F09D| |864FFA98A663AA2851DE51DEA38C2E705E33E05B5A27C6EB88989D07F917C87F165| |59AD5D9EF256D2B055B0ADAB28F6F88DD1573DF5D8EF6FC0FF02778C4CC3C614DE6| |29F37540882CC795D9172EEEB68B1CFF15C55A409D173E713D173F835FC0AFCCFC3| |766846AA7213F2DCAB643DA5B916DB2889CF593FD2BFD9B4A1FBB13724AFF9EF7E6| |07668B03167DC0B23460290F58D6062C55A57FFF85742CDE60FF76F78EEC7F079C8| |FCC73EEBFFFD95CF23A7AE72E6EF21DE6AFD3BA2CEBFE9CD625D8E67ACEB577E10C| |FE0216B4D594| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Also, Hyperstrike, yours probably is a bit more flexible, owing to the range on LBE and Spring Attack. Actually, Spring Attack looks like a lot of fun. How does it compare to Lightning Rod? Or Energy Torrent, in utility?
Edit: I'm also happier with how the above build looks to Exemplar, since the earlier Resists will cope for not having soft-capped defenses until the late 30s for F/C/E/N. -
There's a lot of good stuff in this thread. Thanks. I'm really excited to rebuild this character and hoping some of the fond memories of before I first retired him (I7, for reference) will be regained.
Rangle, the advice of building the sets at a bit lower level is quite sound. Therefore, that is what I will do. I may also rearrange a bit to try and get the Resists earlier, so that I have some measure of resilience before the Defense comes in full force.
Both Hyperstrike's and Kyriani's builds show eschewing Punch (always the weakest of the attacks) for LBE. I don't like having an incomplete attack chain, so I may not do that. I also strongly want to keep full-power S/L Defense ASAP, and that's going to probably come from Kinetic Combats.
That said, I learned quite a bit from looking at each of these builds. In particular, they both showed fairly little concern for Endurance. Today, I was playing with my current setup (2x EndRed SOs at 53), and was doing okay, but not great. Performance was helped a bit by picking up Performance Shifters, so I hope once I do a full rebuild with Miracle/Numinas, that too will get better. However, it does mean I may be able to drop the EndRed IO from my attacks, freeing a few slots to toy with.
Hyperstrike's build got a lot of defensive milage out of very light slotting of the toggles, which is obviously very impressive. I think I'd prefer LotGs to Hasten, but it's obviously a lot more slotting intensive, so perhaps I should reconsider. You are also very obviously right about the Mako's Bite quad versus the ToD a/d/e.
As for Kyriani's build... wow. I didn't think it was possible for an Invul to pull together than much Psi defense & Resistance. I don't know if I'm going to try to duplicate the feat, but it is something to look at, especially as the Ancient's of Sorrow were giving me a rough time today.
Hmmm... I think the lesson to be learned is that I can do all this ridiculous stuff with my defense, but I actually have to consider leaving attacks 5-slotted. I'll have to come back with another build later tonight or tomorrow.
Thanks again. -
So there's a few choices. The benefit of 5-slot DW in DP is definitely worth quite a bit. To get that slot, either I drop the Def/End/Rech in CJ (which is pretty much just a loss of 9% Acc bonus), or I drop the Heal/End in Health (which is about 10% Regen and 1.88% HP). There is an argument for both I have to mull over. As it is, with Rage, only Haymaker has any worse accuracy that I already am running (and I'd probably be better of finding room for a Kismet if it's that important.
So yeah, probably drop that Accuracy bonus, as recommended.
Either way, I am still concerned about the impact of Exemplaring on my ability to handle F/C/E/N. Resist Elements and Energies don't come in til about 30. And, unless I misunderstand how set bonuses work, the Aegis bonuses will shut off at 3 levels lower than the lowest Enhancement's crafted level. This means that I will not be anywhere near the softcap against those attacks.
I can partially mitigate this by using some of my PPs to get the Reactive Armors as SBEs. This still will not help me versus F/C though. Buying lower level Aegis sets will, to my understanding, severely hurt my resists.
So, what I'm asking is: is this not a problem (I misunderstand the system, or the loss won't be a big deal), is it a problem I can cope with by adjusting the build, or is it a problem that I'm just going to have to tolerate?
(One thought I had was leaning more on the Reactive Armor sets rather than Aegis. This will certainly hurt my F/C scores, but Cold seems usually paired with S/L anyway, and this has the perk of over-capping to provide a barrier versus debuffing.) -
Ah, you mean the EndReds in Jab, Punch, and KO Blow? Actually, that was an accident, since I was using sets and it didn't adjust the level when I swapped the enhancement.
Regarding Energy Torrent: It has a KB of 0.67, which I think translates to knockdown. I was using it earlier, without the proc, and I saw it knockdown lots of targets, but none of them were knocked backwards. So I don't think the Proc is really necessary.
The 4th slot in Combat Jumping is for another +9% Accuracy global. Do you think that's unnecessary?
If it's a choice between the 5-slot Doctored Wounds and the 9%, yeah, probably the DW bonuses win out. I'd love to see if I can scrounge the slot from somewhere else though. I'm not a fan of attacks missing.
That said, it seems like you think this works overall (I hope it works before the Gladiator's enhancement, since I'm not likely to come by it for a while). Any other thoughts?
Oh, and since I just unlocked Interface, should I go for the Diamagnetic or Reactive? Diamagnetic looks better for AVs (assuming it's unresistable), but damage-light. -
What about something like this:
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1455;676;1352;HEX;| |78DA6594CB6F125114C6EF6586521EB520055AA114282DAF323015774617B61A4D4| |95AA9EE0CC13AC244420950234BFF05372E4D5CBAF08FF1D187EFAD6FF72EF0CC9C| |CFD6C804F8CD9CF9CEFDCE3DF75EAA0FD67CCFAF3CBC28A4EF52BBD1EFD7B71B9D7| |B46CF596D34CD1D615D2EFAC6395A5F33EE1A9DBEA15DEDDCDF6B778C5EE3B6D936| |07C3285E578DB66168B5BD2EDDD7063DA3D31CB4C4D4E6EE6E5BBB6C365B03B3D3F| |4D94F1B46A34B0FD37F1FEE18BD7ECBEC7A59DAB6B4C1F5AEB9A3AD93497358AF36| |FA03A3379CA55296E9FBD24D3FD22A6EA48838DD6454914F8229667191B9E211B84| |64EB14948A9E2D416789D19AE31134966E93C515544D1031BCA95C89D8536893192| |1823F95FAE46B90AD7E854903B819C49E44C622CDF1B45089DF896F98AE6E7645FC| |55993766C711BBC011684CD7DD2BAD00B177A11B77A31AF8A1C7A918BF0F30BD2BA| |A17597791C4F053CC7D457B98612D5EFE51A8457672F497B610AB1A9115D42A1C83| |48FE89886BB1F2BE1C70A1C926B404ADB35E06797D3417086391B823BB906D1F1E0| |3E573273001E32C3474CDDEA388DAFDF62AA544B08B30BC127039F0C7C72F009933| |6026D04DA34B46968D3D01E51FD73D0CE417B2600421B837695EA8FF25C65142B14| |035FD338F3E8D53CBA1FD741ACC2016916A0598026014D029A2734FD14F748A6307| |611AC90FF12FAB7F4D961AFFAF217F02BF88D9949724E1E3BF6192D6D96BD65F602| |EF98D26387AD794A9E051E572DBCE3FEAFBC073F801F99C54FCC00F558C36ED1D09| |F08C5CA8895A3AC8BA9C727943ED6AECAA9C7E77B941F7B5B1E8BE86391B36391CA| |5864632CB2A91E9F7721ED88DB4FA79823A3EFD6BF81C4DB22F7EEE7494C915B3C4| |7152754BDC99CB8C6E7E0C7BFF959CEFF751273C804C71C8FB8E70EF4FE7798801A| |FE00D4AED5BC| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
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Yeah, at this point I think they're all valid choices, with just slightly different priorities. Thanks for the help.
I definitely want to try to scrounge some of those extra slots to top out Tough's Aegis set.
One last question: why do you keep putting the full Red Fortune set in Evasion over Weave? The only real advantage to putting it one place over the other is the Endurance cost reduction, and Weave costs far more. -
So, I recently dusted off my ancient Invul/SS Tanker and am looking forward to IO-ing him. He is currently running this:
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1451;606;1212;HEX;| |78DA6594DB6E12511486F730438129B4A55869C58AD2D6164AA7A05C9A7861AB312| |94913BC2763BBA513C940603072E99DC767D078E9850FE359E3F1013CBC012E66FD| |43E96692E19BF9F7FAF75E6BCDDE54EFEFC45FDF78705568F16B4DBBDBADDFB2DDB| |BB213ADF63CDB735AAE185E11BACFF1407D47DE916E575A37DD7BBDA62B3BF66DA7| |E978FD0C86ABB229A555EBB5E9B9E675A4DBF08E447CBFD56A5A7BD26E3B6EC3F45| |F6A6D290F13FE63551E3A078E2BF9EDBAD338F2282CB5DB760EAC5D5AA1D1AF57ED| |AE273BFD45CA638DEEB731FAD186990D74313F4C50172185F908B3680A5C83B0B84| |2307461081EA3479F5301E1D90A686219F26AF046E18DC263060CD6032DF2EA9C63| |587F48416543C41F818F99334FC0A7CCE233669AE608F3BA223CC3F37DA09A23A83| |9821AE7140635BFA1D818C78662189B57F89E62A611330DED94C28F1493404C02DA| |A2C26DAA7316B9CEA659FB44BEA416F67D4983B5B30ACBE44BA1B729BFB7B4C7D0C| |B1193CCF39193CC1117D81B5A40CC6985EF288734E64F43BBA070D564AE8379F033| |799750F712F23DA3F012C566FCDD31086530DF8AC265CA7319BD59C6DC5F68EE2C7| |2CF06F5297965C997E3182307DF8A7932E7550D7B14AC987C3686F5AE7DE57D74F1| |1BF81DFCC15CFF09FE623E276C20A70DE45050F82A21C426F744DB9CE2B350045F9| |2DFC2DA16CEC776C00AC7042C07C4B77C41DE127BB512B460CCDF2BE89FC07C7963| |74F60785F1F1015DA234A1942794CB134A6542D91B5752BCF2BE31FA37101ABA129| |BA353CEDAE0F7F189173A3C7FC7357CB93FE31A4EF7BF632DA4A3AB05700BFC0F81| |5BA90F| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
I want something that will play similarly, but will be fairly good in all forms of play. Specifically, I want to be able to operate effectively both in Incarnate-level play and while Exemplared. Inventions are new to me, as is the Incarnate content, so I could use some help.
I'm thinking of running something like this:
I'm shooting for enough Defense I-softcap with just a bit of Luck. I may have gone overboard. I also dropped Medicine figuring that with such strong Defense it may not be necessary.Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1459;670;1340;HEX;| |78DA6594CB72124114867B6090402080244084844B4802090C41E3DA8589960A8A1| |2DD5223B4644A6A4201B164E92BE8C265CA72E7C287F1929BF707F0B277410E9C1F| |12658A996FFACCF9FB5CBA9BE2D30DD7DBEBCFAE08C575B5A1B7DB952DDD7C2C5BB| |6A25E37AAA27FD9E99E676B65433E92665B6A37CC27BB0D53B6F48746C3E874C3F8| |5C940D29B5F26E93DECB9D9634EB9D6DE12EEDEC34B46B467DBB639875D76054907| |A93069EE1A0265BED6DA3C9AE455933AA8629FD9B4DA3AA6D52987AB752D4DB1DD9| |EA86289925BADF3BE8A1F4D3EB59C53CBD2CABC21207134C758199710A5C3D9B281| |112AAF0DE659EBF079699D35BCC5C8D985745D68930A455A08D419B8436096D16DA| |2CB41A69AD9CA3CDBA6F1DD8D403E6B943F088193F063F313F507D36686DB79481C| |D5B602E97982B45AE6FE536C67798FBA4B5B356B5A33713E8CD047A338DDEC482C4| |39557C248D03FD7440E384C6098D2BC63C20DF49F84EC2D705DF29F84E45990AED1| |E37F74FB87B74092B593C507BA00E401D405621CC7248917C8A32F0F579B9BA908F| |79619A199961E6A9DB7EAC941F2B95C44AA5B15269AC54FABF95CA91760659CEE4D| |9A6529E41E41944EC889F398FD80B887D4479CEC277D6FB6F7E71F86490F7458A15| |1EECA99E25FCDAC2F3ED81AF98018A3D87F9E686B1A0CF0FEB459C77143BCABE4AF| |4327CD3DCBF63FA96E0BA94C42A6A05D7298F45F46BF133EFBAA52FE057F01B73F9| |3BF883B94748A15F29CCF78696791579ACBEE43AF2CF993EAA4783BF86FC83645B8| |36D2DCCF346D4D149A55F7FB7A4D5D139EFAD9CBED366E599D7C614F931CBA531CB| |FA98A5306629A9A3932F9481C5E1A5F3CC96DECFFEFF027251B2DC81DFA7368B721| |3E7EB01579BBBCFFC75569762DD9FB33A742C830E665E30FF0608887D02A3D5D3D9| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Either way, your advice would be appreciated.
(Bonus question: Do SBEs also require an Invention License?) -
Quote:Duly noted. I think I see what happened. Your mixture of slotting gets fairly similar HP (losing on the LotGs, gaining on the mixed Melees), loses the redundant Accuracy, and slightly weakens the passives and toggles for a bit better endurance and running speed. Interesting tradeoff.Originally Posted by Doomguide
Nope those 2 extra 10% Regen bonuses are the Rule breakers ... relatively trivial but if one can change them out for something else useful may as well. I swapped out for the GotA which will provide both +recovery and +end.
So, comparing the later Incarnate-enabled version, yours is 54.2/53.2/53.2, while mine gets to 61.3/59.2/59.2. Looking at the build, the differences probably come from my use of the full Gaussian, Red Fortune, and Melee sets (and their corresponding bonuses), while yours gets more HP instead. Both of ours exceed the normal softcap without Incarnate or Maneuvers.Quote:Originally Posted by Doomguide
Hmmm not sure we're seeing the same numbers (for melee, range and AoE)? Only your melee seems truly higher. The others are less than 1% different. I generally aim for between 46 and 48, but you'd be hard pressed even against endgame foes solo to notice the difference between our values and both our builds could simply turn on Maneuvers and be well above 45% across the board as necessary.
If nothing else, this change really does appeal, since I am overcapped in at least Melee by a significant amount.Quote:Originally Posted by Doomguide
The GotA set provides good set bonuses for 2 and 4 of the set compared to the other choices particularly since I was aiming to improve net end recovery. I used the GotA def/+run spd mostly because that IO is the only one of the set for which both portions provided benefit of the remaining choices left for the slots available. Endred and rech don't do anything for auto powers, and rech does very little for the toggles involved.
Those extra Aegis slots are also quite nice, now that I'm looking at them.
Aside from Bloody Bay, I actually don't understand the logic of 25. I also am unsure how well setting this actually represents level 25. Even if it represents the effect of scaling well (and I'm not sure scaling matches IO level progression), it certainly doesn't take into account set bonuses that will simply shut off below a certain level.Quote:Originally Posted by Doomguide
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar...n_Enhancements
Go to 'Options'>'Configuration'>'Default IO Level' and set it to 25. Will give you a fairly close proximation of what your build might look like exemplared down to 22nd. See the above link for why I picked 25.
Hope that helps
Doomguide
Though this is making it look like, if I intend to exemp the character a lot, I should get the enhancements at the Paragon Market rather than Wentworth's. Unfortunately. I don't see any advantage to true IOs over the Paragon Market ones. -
Okay Doomguide, I have them out side by side. Sorry for always questioning minutia, but it's how I try to understand the method to get better at it myself.
So, first question: where, besides 10% Regen bonuses, where was I breaking the Rule of 5? I was pretty careful about that, or so I thought, pruning away extraneous 9% accuracies and the like. Maybe I misunderstand the rule?
Second, the numbers actually look significantly lower than mine, at least in Mids' for Defense. Is that true, or is it just a false artifact of set bonuses that actually won't count?
Third, you seem to really like GotA. Beides the Run bonus, is there something I'm missing?
Fourth, I realized I'm going to need to think very severely as to how exemplaring is going to impact these. -
Okay, Jack. I took what you gave me, tweaked a bit to get something a bit more "me." It looks quite a bit like yours, with a bit more attention to Tough and doing a bit more to get to endurance levels that I feel comfortable with. Tell me if you think the following is playable at the incarnate level:
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(And I figure the pipe dream is to get the relevant 3% Def and 3% Resist PvPs and fit them in somewhere, but that's way off in the distance.) -
Looking at the build you posted, Jack. It's quite impressive. Admittedly, some choices (like Leviathan) didn't fit the themes I was going for, but there is no denying the build's effectiveness. That said, I want to see if I understand this:
Shadow Punch and Shadow Maul were mostly incorperated to carry sets.
Hasten is unnecessary in the face of that many LotG: Recharges. Also, it makes Practiced Brawler only need one slot.
Seems to be an awful lot of +HP and +Regen here. Is the impact that huge?
Stamina seems to be reporting a lot more enhancement than I thought. Does the PS Proc also enhance base recovery?
Why the full set of Red Fortune, particularly in Evasion?
The Gaussian set really does look extraordinary there. Can I afford to run Tactics full time for the Procs, or does that not work out so well?
Is this build going to still be strong when exemplar-ed? -
Since I'm thinking of adopting Shadow Meld, no, I'm not really attached to Body Mastery. And yeah, I could skip the Travel Power. Sprint + Swift + Quickness + other run buffs can be plenty fast anyway.
-
Cytos were rediculously expensive last I checked. That aside, I was running this:
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However, at this point, I'm ready to bite the bullet and do some IOing on this character. This is the plan... can anyone offer any advice or feedback?
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-
So I took most of your advice (just shy of all of it). It was very, very effective. A small purple brought me almost to the cap for DA, and I could handle just about anything on the back of single Lucks plus the DM-debuffing.
It was so much fun that I've decided that I may want to pursue Incarnate content, and IO out this build as my primary. I may keep a secondary SO build for if I drop to free for a while, but for now, I'm really interested in expanding this.
Here's what I have. Pretend that I have a half billion influence (not much more) to throw around. Is this feasible? Can it be improved?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.959
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite- (A) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage
- (3) Overwhelming Force - Endurance/Recharge
- (3) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
- (7) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (7) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (9) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
- (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
- (11) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
- (25) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
- (A) Armageddon - Damage
- (13) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
- (13) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (15) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
- (15) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
- (17) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
- (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
- (25) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (31) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
- (31) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
- (A) Accuracy
- (50) Damage Increase
- (50) Damage Increase
- (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
- (17) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
- (19) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
- (19) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
- (21) Damage Increase
- (21) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (23) Recharge Reduction
- (23) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Defense Buff
- (34) Defense Buff
- (36) Defense Buff
- (A) Defense Buff
- (36) Defense Buff
- (36) Defense Buff
- (A) Accuracy
- (46) Accuracy
- (46) Recharge Reduction
- (48) Recharge Reduction
- (48) Recharge Reduction
- (48) Endurance Modification
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
- (37) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
- (37) Resist Damage
- (37) Resist Damage
- (39) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
- (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
- (39) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
- (40) Red Fortune - Defense
- (46) Red Fortune - Endurance
- (A) Accuracy
- (27) Accuracy
- (27) Recharge Reduction
- (29) Recharge Reduction
- (29) Recharge Reduction
- (31) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Defense Buff
- (40) Defense Buff
- (42) Defense Buff
- (A) Defense Buff
- (50) Defense Buff
- (A) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
- (33) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
- (33) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
- (33) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
- (34) Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
- (A) Defense Buff
- (43) Defense Buff
- (43) Defense Buff
- (43) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Accuracy
- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (45) Recharge Reduction
- (45) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Accuracy
- (A) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Endurance Reduction
- (A) Accuracy
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Empty
- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 4: Swift- (A) Run Speed
- (A) Miracle - +Recovery
- (42) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
- (45) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
- (A) Jumping
- (A) Endurance Modification
- (5) Endurance Modification
- (5) Endurance Modification
- (42) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
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Thanks for the advice. I reviewed the numbers for GC versus SotW which told me something I should have noticed in the first place: GC has a similar DPE and better DPS, DPAT, and lower activation. So picking SotW isn't like picking Smite over Shadow Punch, it's like picking Charged Brawl over Havoc Punch (which I did on my Brute, another oops). So yeah, definitely going to swap that out on next respec.
I will not be dropping DA. It's not cutting a critical attack from my build, and it's too much an asset (and I don't have the billions of influence to get soft-capped without it).
I have taken your input on Placate, as well as the usefulness of having more than 4 KB Protection. Considering that I've already seen 4 Immobilize Protection seems insufficient as well, I will probably swap Shadow Dweller and Placate to fit CJ and Acrobatics. The latter two may fit in at the end of the build, if at all.
So, in short:
1. Definitely take SD and GD.
2. Replace SotW with GC.
3. Replace Placate and Shadow Dweller with Combat Jumping and Acrobatics.