Even without seeing the changes to the fighting pool in beta, my initial response would be "doubtful" that I would ever take all 5 powers from the fighting pool.
If this was my toon, I'd probably drop touch of fear and replace Energy Mastery with a different epic pool. You can build in enough endurance recovery without needing Conserve Power and Physical Perfection.
If I wanted more direct attacks, I'd probably continue with the theme of dark and grab attacks from Soul Mastery. I think Gloom is considered one of the higher DPA attacks and would probably be better then either Kick or Boxing. (if switching redside doesn't work for you, this wouldn't be a good choice)
If I wanted more AoE damage, I'd go Pyre Mastery. Picking up Char, Fire Blast and Fireball.
Throwing darts at the board to see if something sticks.....
Come show your resolve and fight my brute!
Tanks: Gauntlet, the streak breaker and you!
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Originally Posted by PapaSlade
Rangle's right....this is fun.
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I may be misremembering, but I thought it was just HAVING the attack that would boost the others.
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Originally Posted by cohRock
If you don't know, the 3 fighting pool attacks will buff each other. Use one, and the next one does more damage (can't remember if more accuracy also).
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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If you're misremembering, than I am too because I thought the synergy bonus was just for owning the power. |
Originally Posted by Ironblade
I may be misremembering, but I thought it was just HAVING the attack that would boost the others.
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In regards to the OP's question, my personal preference is to always opt for a primary, secondary, or even epic power over a pool power. In a particularly loose build you might find room for five powers from the same pool, but even without seeing the exact stats on the new fighting powers I would think that the bare minimum to get tough and weave is enough.
That being said, I have two caveats:
1) I understand the temptation to take all the powers from a set. When the new sorcery power pool "leaked", I instantly started thinking of ways to incorporate all five powers into a build. When people started speculating that Sorcery would be one of five origin themed pool powers my head nearly exploded. Whether the new Fighting powers are worth the effort or not, I love the period of speculation that the OP, I, and I'm sure many others are experiencing.
2) I recently rolled an Time/Energy Defender and as I choose powers for him I find myself consciously choosing powers that I want for my concept despite the fact that I am usually a borderline min/maxer. It appears to me that with i24, the so-called "Fix Everything Issue", the devs are trying to make a lot of previously unpopular power decisions more desirable. My point is that my gut tells me that the line between power gamer and concept player is going to become more blurred soon, so if you want to take all 5 fighting powers and it's fun to play then do what you want and nuts to everything else.
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I - Fire/Fire/Fire Blaster, II - Fire/Energy/Fire Tank, III - Elec/Elec/Elec Blaster,
IV - Elec/Elec/Mu Brute, V - Elec/Elec/Mu Stalker, VI -Elec/Elec/Energy Tank, VII - Elec/Elec/Body Scrapper, VIII - Elec/Elec/Mu Dominator
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Go Soul Patron, get gloom...gloom is good. Lose energy mastery and keep DC
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
I appreciate the feedback, folks. Metal Mettle is not the type to go villain, even for just a bit. So Soul Mastery is out, but other options remain.
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Hmm, that is not how I remember it. I also remember them talking about mechanics of new sets, like Perfection or Tidal Power. Perhaps I have it wrong, but I believe mention of the new mechanics of the fighting pool was made.|
Originally Posted by Ironblade
I may be misremembering, but I thought it was just HAVING the attack that would boost the others.
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I hope I don't have it wrong. It seems bad design to me to allow just owning a power, without even using it, to buff other power(s). Some folks would take a fighting pool attack, never slot it, never use it, simply to buff something else. I know we get passive buffs from invention sets, but each individual buff is low, like 2% more base damage. I.e., the base damage of an attack has to be 50 before that passive buff actually adds a whole point of damage to the attack. If that is the sort of intra-power buffage we see within the fighting pool, I won't bother. I'm hoping for much more significant, active, buffing.
It just occurred to me that auto-powers (Stamina, Health, Quickness, etc.) are not actively used, yet significant on their own. However in those cases the purpose of the power is to buff. The purpose of a fighting pool attack is to do damage, which in my mind is an entirely different thing.
-- Rich
* Thresholds CoH: What to do When
* My Comics Collection
The fighting pool synergies were for just owning the other powers.
Examples: Boxing gets 15% damage buff if you own Kick. Boxing gets 15% damage buff if you own Cross Punch.
This was talked about clearly in the Twitch stream. The video is still available (7/11/12, 17:42 into video).
Oh, and owning them gives Brawl some debuffs.
edit: Cross Punch gives the user a recharge & accuracy buff when used if you own boxing and/or kick or more buff if you own both.
Also, isn't Dark Melee one of the best top-end ST damage sets out there? Not THE greatest, but up there?
OP: Slot Siphon Life as an attack, not as a heal, and you'll see a big difference in how much ST damage you can do.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Or they would take the power, never slot it and never use it, just to be able to take later powers in the set. |
Originally Posted by cohRock
Some folks would take a fighting pool attack, never slot it, never use it, simply to buff something else.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Yes...DM is right up there...especially if you take gloom into consideration (though gloom helps every melee set really). DM is likely top 3 or 4 best ST melee damage sets. |
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Also, isn't Dark Melee one of the best top-end ST damage sets out there? Not THE greatest, but up there?
OP: Slot Siphon Life as an attack, not as a heal, and you'll see a big difference in how much ST damage you can do. |
Top chain would be Smite-MG-Smite-SL rinse and repeat. With gloom it would be something like Gloom-MG-Smite-SL
Slot siphon life as an attack, and if you don't use DC for end recovery slot it with 5/6 oblits/erads and make it another AoE attack.
I normally slot Soul Drain with an Armageddon set 5 slots using the proc...it turns into a nice AoE that way.
MG I normally put a Heca set into
SL in some builds I slot with something like 4 kinetic combats and 2 pieces of ToE or ToN to boost accuracy...other builds I 6 slot with kinetic combats and 2 triples from crushing impact or mako's or something.
Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22
I would totally recommend you pick up Smite if at all possible. It's arguably the best attack in the entire Dark Melee set.
For a long time NOTHING did as much damage with as fast of an activation as Smite, and it's still rarely equaled or surpassed.
You're seriously hamstringing yourself by not having it.
"I'm flying free with my beautiful butterfly wings!" ~ Randy Marsh
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I thought I saw in the forums once, or maybe I made a build, that frankenslotted SL to get a lot of damage and some added healing. When I get home this evening, I'll dig around for it.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
OP: Slot Siphon Life as an attack, not as a heal, and you'll see a big difference in how much ST damage you can do.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
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Probably, yes. But if you're only going to slot for one or the other, I think damage is the way to go.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
I thought I saw in the forums once, or maybe I made a build, that frankenslotted SL to get a lot of damage and some added healing. When I get home this evening, I'll dig around for it.
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Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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I would agree with this; if you have SL in your regular attack chain, you're going to be using it frequently and whether you need a heal or not. Under those circumstances, unless you're in trouble, I'd think SL's healing would often be superfluous.|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Probably, yes. But if you're only going to slot for one or the other, I think damage is the way to go.
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EDIT: Oops, referenced wrong primary.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Probably, yes. But if you're only going to slot for one or the other, I think damage is the way to go.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
I would agree with this; if you have SL in your regular attack chain, you're going to be using it frequently and whether you need a heal or not. Under those circumstances, unless you're in trouble, I'd think SL's healing would often be superfluous.
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Superior Might of the Tanker: Dmg/Rech, Acc/Dmg
Hecatomb: Dmg/Rech
Touch of the Nictus: Heal/Rech, Acc/Heal, Acc/End/Rech
As level 50 enhancements that will be:
Accuracy: 74.87
Damage: 94.56
Endurance: 42.40
Heal: 47.70
Recharge: 97.09
You also get:
4% Damage buff (and you can still get MotT's recharge bonus in another power)
35 HP for a Tanker
9% Acc
@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
I found it odd, as someone who plays a DM/SR scrapper, to find anyone complaining about the direct-damage capabilities of DM. Then I observed what others have: Smite is absent, and SL is slotted as a heal. Fixing those two things should get you to the truly absurd capabilities of DM.
You could drop DC, but as others have said, you might be better off keeping it to give you the flexibility to get AoE from a pool (SM is good, but it's not sufficient as true AoE).
Honestly, much as others do, I really want to like the changes to the Fighting Pool. The problem is that SR builds in general (and especially with DM) are very, very tight as is. They need almost everything in order to cap out at a sufficient level of defense. Even then, as a Scrapper, I needed Weave to get me further along. Tough was useful. But Boxing is a speed bump, inferior to Shadow Punch in every way. I just don't have the room to fit in two more powers to make a Pool attack competitive with my DM attacks.
You may be able to fit them in at the upper 40s, but then we need to find out how exemplaring interacts with those buffs. My hunch is to say that it's not worth it.
Honestly, I wish they'd do what they did with Travel Pools, and make Tough a stand-alone possibility. While my scrapper would still want Weave, I'd imagine some Tankers could do without, and then we could drop the speed bump entirely.
So yeah, in short, try out Smite and Siphon Life for damage before jumping to conclusions on anything else.
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Originally Posted by cohRock
This sounds attractive to me because dark melee has always seemed shy on direct damage attacks.
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Weight training: Because you'll never hear someone lament "If only I were weaker, I could have saved them."
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Note Aett's "if", and that neither of us said that it was impossible to slot for both damage and healing. However, it's possible--likely even--that a player may want to slot for a set bonus (KCs, for instance) that would preclude slotting SL heavily for heal.
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Originally Posted by Rylas
You guys and your lack of vision *tsk tsk*.
Superior Might of the Tanker: Dmg/Rech, Acc/Dmg Hecatomb: Dmg/Rech Touch of the Nictus: Heal/Rech, Acc/Heal, Acc/End/Rech As level 50 enhancements that will be: Accuracy: 74.87 Damage: 94.56 Endurance: 42.40 Heal: 47.70 Recharge: 97.09 You also get: 4% Damage buff (and you can still get MotT's recharge bonus in another power) 35 HP for a Tanker 9% Acc |
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Don't worry, my opening line for that post was tongue-in-cheek. Though for a SR Tank, I doubt KCs would have that much appeal (melee vs S/L and all). But healing for 15% on a primary without a heal sounds pretty tempting. Just giving the OP something to consider, is all.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
Note Aett's "if", and that neither of us said that it was impossible to slot for both damage and healing. However, it's possible--likely even--that a player may want to slot for a set bonus (KCs, for instance) that would preclude slotting SL heavily for heal.
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@Rylas
Kill 'em all. Let XP sort 'em out.
Metal Mettle is my level 45 SuperReflexes/DarkMelee tank. For reference, his current build and final planned powers are at the bottom of this post. He already has three fighting pool powers -- Boxing, Tough, and Weave. With the upcoming changes and additional direct-damage multi-target power in the fighting pool, I'm considering getting the full set. To fit the two new attacks, I'd drop Dark Consumption (DC, taken at 35) and Touch of Fear (planned at 49). He doesn't need the extra endurance from DC, and it is currently used simply as a low-damage (very-slow recharge) AoE.
If you don't know, the 3 fighting pool attacks will buff each other. Use one, and the next one does more damage (can't remember if more accuracy also). Also, the knockback effect of Kick will be changed to knockdown. This sounds attractive to me because dark melee has always seemed shy on direct damage attacks. One possibility is not to pick up Kick, but take Smite instead, depending on the total intra-power buffage given the 3 fighting pool attacks.
Am I crazy? Is anyone else considering taking all five fighting pool powers?
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.958
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Metal Mettle: Level 50 Technology Tanker
Primary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), GftotA-Def(9), GftotA-Run+(15)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- Acc(A), Dmg(7), Acc(34), Dmg(43), Dmg(48)
Level 2: Focused Senses -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), GftotA-Def(9), GftotA-Run+(15)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Acc(A), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), Dmg(11), Acc(27)
Level 6: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(7)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 10: Boxing -- Acc(A), Dmg(11), Acc(37), Dmg(46)
Level 12: Evasion -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), GftotA-Def(13), GftotA-Run+(19)
Level 14: Taunt -- Zinger-Taunt/Rchg(A), Zinger-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(42), Zinger-Taunt/Rng(43), Zinger-Dam%(43)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- Nictus-Acc/Heal(A), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(17), Nictus-Heal(27), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(34), Dmg(34)
Level 18: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(40)
Level 20: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(23), Aegis-ResDam(25), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(25)
Level 22: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(42)
Level 24: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(42)
Level 26: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Acc(A), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(31), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx(31)
Level 30: Recall Friend -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 32: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), GftotA-Def(33), GftotA-Run+(33)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Acc(A), RechRdx(36), EndMod(36), RechRdx(36), RechRdx(37), Acc(37)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- MotTanker-Acc/Dmg(A), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), MotTanker-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), MotTanker-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), MotTanker-Dmg/Rchg(40), MotTanker-Rchg/Res%(40)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(50)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod(A), Heal(45), EndMod(45), Heal(45), EndMod(46), Heal(46)
Level 47: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48)
Level 49: Touch of Fear -- Acc(A), Fear(50), ToHitDeb(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(21), Heal(23)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(19), EndMod(21)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
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-- Rich
* Thresholds CoH: What to do When
* My Comics Collection