City of Heroes: Live Forum Archive

[Feedback/Advice Request] DM/SR Scrapper

DaemonDivinity

By DaemonDivinity,
Posted on: 2012-07-06 07:54 in Build Workshop

 

Posted

I'm a Premium player primarily (occasionally VIP) with a DM/SR scrapper that I've come back to after many years absence. I was curious if the forum could give me any advice. My intended rebuild is listed below.


Things to note:

1. I'm a very casual player. The build can therefore only involve relatively inexpensive (a few million, max) HOs/SHOs and sets accessible to Freemium Players.

2. I know I can't hit the soft-cap like this, but I typically run around with a bunch of Good Lucks.

3. I think the Fighting Pool would help survivability, but I'm not sure if it's worth the loss of Shadow Punch to fit Boxing, and I have no idea where I'd fit Tough & Weave (or scrounge the slots, barring HOs/SHOs).


Thanks in advance!




Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.957
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Nightborne Hawke: Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- Acc(A), Acc(3), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), EndRdx(7)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(27), DefBuff(27), EndRdx(45)
Level 2: Shadow Punch -- Acc(A), Acc(7), Dmg(9), Dmg(9), Dmg(11), EndRdx(11)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Acc(A), Acc(13), Dmg(13), Dmg(15), Dmg(15), EndRdx(17)
Level 6: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- ScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrappersS-Dmg/Rchg(17), ScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), ScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), ScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21), ScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(21)
Level 10: Touch of Fear -- HO:Endo(A), HO:Endo(40), ToHitDeb(40), ToHitDeb(46)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(23), RechRdx(23)
Level 14: Focused Senses -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(29), DefBuff(29), EndRdx(46)
Level 16: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Acc(A), Acc(36), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37), RechRdx(37)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 22: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(40), DefBuff(43)
Level 24: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(42), DefBuff(43)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Acc(A), Acc(31), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(34)
Level 28: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(43), DefBuff(46)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Acc(A), Acc(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(34), EndRdx(34)
Level 35: Evasion -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), EndRdx(45)
Level 38: Elude -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(39), RechRdx(39)
Level 41: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(42), RechRdx(42)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- EndMod(A), EndMod(45)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Acc(A), Acc(48), HO:Centri(48), HO:Centri(48), HO:Centri(50), EndRdx(50)
Level 49: Focused Accuracy -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Run(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 4: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 4: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 4: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(25), EndMod(25)
------------

 

Posted

I would drop Focused Acc...it's very end costly...and it doesn't buff enough...fighting pool would certainly help.

Drop shadow punch...FA...and Energy Torrent...get boxing/Tough/weave

Primary attack chain should be Smite/Midnight grasp/smite/Siphon life and hit soul drain and dark consumption as they come back...you might mix in a shadow maul there as a filler...since you are on SOs and HOs I would not be certain as to how much recharge you need to run that attack chain...but shadow maul will fill in nicely in any gaps.

Currently Playing:
Rage King - SS/Regen Brute (50+3)
Soulfire Darkness - Dark/Fire Tank (50+2)
Deaths Final Embrace - Kat/Dark Brute (50+3)
ULTIMATE REGEN GUIDE I22

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonDivinity View Post
1. I'm a very casual player. The build can therefore only involve relatively inexpensive (a few million, max) HOs/SHOs and sets accessible to Freemium Players.

2. I know I can't hit the soft-cap like this, but I typically run around with a bunch of Good Lucks.

3. I think the Fighting Pool would help survivability, but I'm not sure if it's worth the loss of Shadow Punch to fit Boxing, and I have no idea where I'd fit Tough & Weave (or scrounge the slots, barring HOs/SHOs).


Thanks in advance!
If you can scrounge up, or otherwise convince someone to help you get access to even a couple of them, Nucleolus are a massive help to Free-Builds. Acc/Dam 33%, even just one in a power can allow you to trim slotting down a little bit, three in a single attack mean you can use the other three slots for End/Rech. I'll throw a build code after all this that wont really include those very much beyond Siphon Life where these are a really big boon to use in (at the very least) that one power. Also, you have Soul Drain, even if it isn't up 100% of the time, it comes packed with a +To Hit that means you can skimp on most of your accuracy slotting to just one for most attacks. This'll put you comfortable at fighting +1/2's most of the time, and while Soul Drain is running, you'll be able to take on +4's without problem. Hasten being available also will help with keeping things running, and while Hasten is up you can manage Smite > Siphon Life > Smite > Midnight Grasp without much gap in between the attacks. Not pushing towards an attack chain, but it helps with the illusion that you have more attacks than Dark Melee really does. I also tossed a few extra slots in Boxing just in case you felt like you needed a fourth single-target attack.

You'll also notice in the build some excessive slotting in a few of the defensive powers. Normally this would be something folks would frown against, but the qualm is easily dismissed in the fact that it will help get your Defenses up closer to 45%. In fact, by splitting the Scrapper ATO into three pieces in two powers, you can get 2.5% Melee bonus and this lets you hit 45% Melee. Ranged and AoE are at 42.5%, while not Soft Cap, this is definitely good on SO's.

I did take out Touch of Fear as an area to fit Tough/Weave. Once you start floating around 45% defense, the necessity of ToF's mitigation is nearly insignificant in dealing with mobs. In light of how close to 45% this is, Elude is also pretty un-necessary. A purple will often take care of any situation you feel uncomfortable, and between Conserve Power and Dark Consumption, your endurance is well under wraps.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

 

Posted

Thanks for the insights, planet_J and John_Printemps. I think you definitely pointed out some things for me to keep in mind.

The first is that both ToF and Elude aren't helpful in PvE as you approach the softcap. Either targets can be handled by base debuffing, or they're numerous/resistant enough to warrant a Luck.

Though, since it's not as important to actually softcap due to the base debuffs, I think I'll keep the Scrapper set together. That recharge and resistance I think will help more. If that 1.25% would matter, I'll use a purple. The question is where it should go. I also doubt I'll ever afford the Nucleolus Exposures, but it's certainly worth a try.

I also was worried about the combination of Maneuvers, Tough, and Weave murdering my endurance, but maybe that won't be an issue. I will probably change the build order, tweak some things, and repost shortly.

Thanks for the help thus far.



Edit/Appendix:

So I went back to the drawing board and came up with something a bit between mine and the above. I may have to bite the bullet and scrounge for those few HOs. I also have an Overwhelming Force set (those work for Freemium, right?) that might be best used in Midnight's Grasp.

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I'm still coming up a bit short of where I want in slotting (I need at least 3-4 more to make Maneuvers worth it and I'd like 1 more EndRed in Tough, and unfortunately those HOs are well beyond my pricing). Exemplaring is why I'm very reluctant to pull that last recharge out of Practiced Brawler. It might work though, especially with Hasten up part-time and the global recharge on the Scrapper set. Has anyone done the math to see if 1-slot PB is up full-time when exemplared to 20?

I also wish I could move Combat Jumping earlier for better in-zone mobility when exemplared, but that's a lesser concern.

I suppose the obvious choice is removing Energy Torrent. It's a shame to lose my only good AoE damage, but that late on, it's probably better to run Maneuvers if I can only do one or the other. Doing so gets me the 5th slot in Toughness for Endred, another Defense in CJ (worth about 0.5%), and three slots for Maneuvers (2 DefBuff, 2 Endred, worth about 3.3% for 0.22 EPS). However, I almost think at this point I'd do just as well to grab 2-slot Hover over 4-slot Maneuvers. Has anyone tried that?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonDivinity View Post
I'm still coming up a bit short of where I want in slotting (I need at least 3-4 more to make Maneuvers worth it and I'd like 1 more EndRed in Tough, and unfortunately those HOs are well beyond my pricing). Exemplaring is why I'm very reluctant to pull that last recharge out of Practiced Brawler. It might work though, especially with Hasten up part-time and the global recharge on the Scrapper set. Has anyone done the math to see if 1-slot PB is up full-time when exemplared to 20?
Take the extra slot back out of Physical Perfection, it only adds .06eps and is truly a waste, put it in Maneuvers. Then take those two other slots out of Conserve Power and put them in Maneuvers and slot it Def/Def/End/End. Dark Consumption will do more for you long-term than Conserve Power. I'd suggest relying more on DC for your general needs and saving Conserve for something like an AV fight.

As for the Scrapper ATO set, the reason I split it in two is because the 2.5% Melee Defense is more valuable to you than the 8.75% Global Recharge or 2.21% Resists. The only power that gets any real assistance is Hasten, and that only shaves 7/s off while Hasten is down. For most powers you're seeing only a .2/s-.5/s (most attacks) to 2/s (Soul Drain) difference across the board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Warning: crazy space limit reached. Please delete some crazy and try again.

 

Posted

So I took most of your advice (just shy of all of it). It was very, very effective. A small purple brought me almost to the cap for DA, and I could handle just about anything on the back of single Lucks plus the DM-debuffing.

It was so much fun that I've decided that I may want to pursue Incarnate content, and IO out this build as my primary. I may keep a secondary SO build for if I drop to free for a while, but for now, I'm really interested in expanding this.

Here's what I have. Pretend that I have a half billion influence (not much more) to throw around. Is this feasible? Can it be improved?

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.959
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite

  • (A) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage
  • (3) Overwhelming Force - Endurance/Recharge
  • (3) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance
  • (7) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (7) Overwhelming Force - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (9) Overwhelming Force - Damage/Chance for Knockdown/Knockback to Knockdown
Level 1: Focused Fighting
  • (A) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance
  • (9) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  • (11) Luck of the Gambler - Defense
  • (11) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed
  • (25) Shield Wall - +Res (Teleportation), +3% Res (All)
Level 2: Shadow Maul
  • (A) Armageddon - Damage
  • (13) Armageddon - Damage/Recharge
  • (13) Armageddon - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  • (15) Armageddon - Accuracy/Recharge
  • (15) Armageddon - Damage/Endurance
  • (17) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage
Level 4: Focused Senses
  • (A) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance
  • (25) Gift of the Ancients - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  • (31) Gift of the Ancients - Defense
  • (31) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%
Level 6: Boxing
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (50) Damage Increase
  • (50) Damage Increase
Level 8: Siphon Life
  • (A) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
  • (17) HamiO:Nucleolus Exposure
  • (19) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
  • (19) HamiO:Golgi Exposure
  • (21) Damage Increase
  • (21) Recharge Reduction
Level 10: Practiced Brawler
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 12: Hasten
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (23) Recharge Reduction
  • (23) Recharge Reduction
Level 14: Agile
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (34) Defense Buff
  • (36) Defense Buff
Level 16: Dodge
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (36) Defense Buff
  • (36) Defense Buff
Level 18: Dark Consumption
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (46) Accuracy
  • (46) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Recharge Reduction
  • (48) Endurance Modification
Level 20: Quickness
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 22: Tough
  • (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/Endurance
  • (37) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%
  • (37) Resist Damage
  • (37) Resist Damage
  • (39) Endurance Reduction
Level 24: Weave
  • (A) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance
  • (39) Red Fortune - Defense/Recharge
  • (39) Red Fortune - Endurance/Recharge
  • (40) Red Fortune - Defense/Endurance/Recharge
  • (40) Red Fortune - Defense
  • (46) Red Fortune - Endurance
Level 26: Soul Drain
  • (A) Accuracy
  • (27) Accuracy
  • (27) Recharge Reduction
  • (29) Recharge Reduction
  • (29) Recharge Reduction
  • (31) Endurance Reduction
Level 28: Lucky
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (40) Defense Buff
  • (42) Defense Buff
Level 30: Combat Jumping
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (50) Defense Buff
Level 32: Midnight Grasp
  • (A) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage
  • (33) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Recharge
  • (33) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge
  • (33) Scrapper's Strike - Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (34) Scrapper's Strike - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge
  • (34) Scrapper's Strike - Recharge/Critical Hit Bonus
Level 35: Evasion
  • (A) Defense Buff
  • (43) Defense Buff
  • (43) Defense Buff
  • (43) Endurance Reduction
Level 38: Moonbeam
  • (A) Accuracy
Level 41: Shadow Meld
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
  • (45) Recharge Reduction
  • (45) Recharge Reduction
Level 44: Summon Widow
  • (A) Accuracy
Level 47: Assault
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 49: Tactics
  • (A) Endurance Reduction
Level 1: Brawl
  • (A) Accuracy
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge
  • (A) Empty
Level 1: Sprint
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 2: Rest
  • (A) Recharge Reduction
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 4: Swift
  • (A) Run Speed
Level 4: Health
  • (A) Miracle - +Recovery
  • (42) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery
  • (45) Panacea - +Hit Points/Endurance
Level 4: Hurdle
  • (A) Jumping
Level 4: Stamina
  • (A) Endurance Modification
  • (5) Endurance Modification
  • (5) Endurance Modification
  • (42) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End
------------



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PS: I'm thinking Spiritual Alpha.

 

Posted

Ah, I know you said you're on a budget, but here's a slightly tighter version of John's build. It's softcapped to melee and ranged. I could actually give you one that was SO-only and softcapped to all three positions, but it's kind of a pain to run because of high endurance costs.

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=====

As far as an IO build goes, it could be radically different from your core build; many IO sets are actually cheaper than (S)HOs, and of course as a VIP you have merit rewards available. Other than the fixed sets -- DM/SR -- do you have any specific wants or dislikes?

 

Posted

Cytos were rediculously expensive last I checked. That aside, I was running this:

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and doing excellent with it.

However, at this point, I'm ready to bite the bullet and do some IOing on this character. This is the plan... can anyone offer any advice or feedback?

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Posted

Well, I mean, I can give you a *build,* but I need to know if you're attached to Body Mastery and if you need a travel power.

 

Posted

Since I'm thinking of adopting Shadow Meld, no, I'm not really attached to Body Mastery. And yeah, I could skip the Travel Power. Sprint + Swift + Quickness + other run buffs can be plenty fast anyway.

 

Posted

You can at least get softcapped to melee and just 2.3% shy of softcap on ranged/aoe def, keep body mastery to help you with end issues while using ET as a mean to avoid alphas though:

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- Acc(A), HO:Nucle(21), RechRdx(21), EndRdx(23), Dmg(25), Dmg(37)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(3), DefBuff(3), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(39)
Level 2: Shadow Maul -- Acc(A), HO:Nucle(15), RechRdx(15), EndRdx(23), Dmg(25), Dmg(37)
Level 4: Focused Senses -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(5), DefBuff(5), DefBuff(7), DefBuff(39)
Level 6: Touch of Fear -- HO:Lyso(A), EndRdx(43), ToHitDeb(46)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), SScrappersS-Dmg/Rchg(9), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(9), SScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(11), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(13)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(40), DefBuff(42)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Jump(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(17), DefBuff(17)
Level 18: Agile -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(19), DefBuff(19)
Level 20: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 22: Quickness -- Run(A)
Level 24: Tough -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Acc(A), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(27), RechRdx(40), ToHit(43), Dmg(43)
Level 28: Lucky -- DefBuff(A), DefBuff(29), DefBuff(29)
Level 30: Weave -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(31), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(31), DefBuff(40)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- Acc(A), HO:Nucle(33), RechRdx(33), EndRdx(33), Dmg(34), Dmg(34)
Level 35: Evasion -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(36), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(36), DefBuff(39)
Level 38: Conserve Power -- RechRdx(A)
Level 41: Physical Perfection -- EndMod(A), EndMod(46)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(45), DefBuff(45), DefBuff(45), DefBuff(46)
Level 47: Energy Torrent -- Acc(A), HO:Nucle(48), EndRdx(48), RechRdx(48), Dmg(50), Dmg(50)
Level 49: Dark Consumption -- Acc(A), RechRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 2: Health -- Heal(A), Heal(42), Heal(42)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(34), EndMod(37)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------



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Posted

Shadow Meld? On an SR? Pssht. Naw, bro, you need to throw sharks.

I call this "Batman." Not because it's terribly much like Batman in any obvious way; merely that it has incredible resilience and a lurking subconscious psychosis.

You should replace the frankenslotting in Focused Fighting, Focused Senses, and Manuevers with S/HOs when you can, but you don't have to.

And in all modesty? This is a work of art. (Caveat : Better can be done, but not without purples or PvP IOs. There are none here.)

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Oh, one final note. You don't actually need Spirit Shark Jaws for anything. I'd've loved to have slotted it to make it useful, but I just can't with this build. You can replace it with a travel power (especially if you put the Winter's Gift IO in it), or Hasten or whatever. I just find it hilarious. Hibernate, on the other hand, you should keep.

 

Posted

Looking at the build you posted, Jack. It's quite impressive. Admittedly, some choices (like Leviathan) didn't fit the themes I was going for, but there is no denying the build's effectiveness. That said, I want to see if I understand this:

Shadow Punch and Shadow Maul were mostly incorperated to carry sets.

Hasten is unnecessary in the face of that many LotG: Recharges. Also, it makes Practiced Brawler only need one slot.

Seems to be an awful lot of +HP and +Regen here. Is the impact that huge?

Stamina seems to be reporting a lot more enhancement than I thought. Does the PS Proc also enhance base recovery?

Why the full set of Red Fortune, particularly in Evasion?

The Gaussian set really does look extraordinary there. Can I afford to run Tactics full time for the Procs, or does that not work out so well?

Is this build going to still be strong when exemplar-ed?

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonDivinity View Post
Shadow Punch and Shadow Maul were mostly incorperated to carry sets.
Shadow Maul is a mule you can use to do exemp content; you have much better AoEs at higher levels. Shadow Punch you will actually have to use sometimes, but it's not that bad. If you Boost some of the accuracy enhancements it's actually pretty decent.

Quote:
Hasten is unnecessary in the face of that many LotG: Recharges. Also, it makes Practiced Brawler only need one slot.
Yep.

Quote:
Seems to be an awful lot of +HP and +Regen here. Is the impact that huge?
Mostly by accident. I actually didn't even slot the Miracle +Regen global. But +HP is never a bad thing.

Quote:
Stamina seems to be reporting a lot more enhancement than I thought. Does the PS Proc also enhance base recovery?
No. The Alpha I'm recommending, Agility, has endmod.

Quote:
Why the full set of Red Fortune, particularly in Evasion?
It's a really good set. A prototype of this build used 3 full RFs along with 5 partial LotGs. You could, theoretically, break it, but you'd likely only get 2 slots back and you'd have to put them right into Agile and Focused Senses (and still wouldn't get the same amount of ranged defense).

Quote:
The Gaussian set really does look extraordinary there. Can I afford to run Tactics full time for the Procs, or does that not work out so well?
Chasing the proc is a waste of time -- a huge bonus for a very short time with a tiny chance of happening. You don't even need to run the power to do Incarnate content, although it will help on a few of the attacks.

Quote:
Is this build going to still be strong when exemplar-ed?
Quite (although again, no purples). You can play around with enhancement levels to get a greater effect if you like. There's a lot you can do by working out the breakpoints of various enhancement bonuses and then boosting them, but that's a bit further than I go for builds that aren't my own.

 

Posted

Quote:
... Seems to be an awful lot of +HP and +Regen here. Is the impact that huge? ...
Short answer: It can be, particularly when solo (vs higher difficulties and foes).

Longer answer: For me, when building any SR character, it can be broken into 2 large steps. First building to reach the soft cap. Then it forks into 2 overall choices. Focusing on either building for recharge (offense) or building for survival/mitigation (defense). It'll be blurred more on DM than it would on my Claws (or most of the rest of the primaries) because of Siphon Life. Adding large amounts of +max health/+regen can push ones Total Health and Regen up to 2000+ and upwards of 30hp/sec regen. I can very much note the difference between my Claws/SR scrapper and my several other */SR scrappers and brutes. They are all soft capped but only my Claws has a build that pushes max health and regen hard (latest build has 2088 health and 31.67 hp/sec regen). Compare that to my Fire/SR brute sitting around 1500 health and 18 hp/sec (lack of accolades and max health focus) and yes I do notice it, especially running solo at higher difficulties and foes.

Doomguide

 

Posted

Okay, Jack. I took what you gave me, tweaked a bit to get something a bit more "me." It looks quite a bit like yours, with a bit more attention to Tough and doing a bit more to get to endurance levels that I feel comfortable with. Tell me if you think the following is playable at the incarnate level:

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I was considering another tweak to even further reduce the pressure to have maneuvers: putting another Gaussian in Soul Drain (relying on the innate 1.2 accuracy plus 5 x 9% bonuses from sets). Do you think that's a good idea, or just going overboard?

(And I figure the pipe dream is to get the relevant 3% Def and 3% Resist PvPs and fit them in somewhere, but that's way off in the distance.)

 

Posted

Took your build, eliminated some bonuses breaking the Rule of the Five. Next turned on Weave as doing so means a number of powers 5 and 6 slotted for defense bonuses could be slotted differently and or slots used elsewhere (including Weave itself) ...

Doomguide

Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.96
http://www.cohplanner.com/

Click this DataLink to open the build!

DMSR_Demon Divinity_Alternate2 (v1.00.i23): Level 50 Magic Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Dark Melee
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Leviathan Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Smite -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(7), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(9), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9)
Level 1: Focused Fighting -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(15), LkGmblr-Rchg+(17), Ksmt-ToHit+(42)
Level 2: Shadow Punch -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(19), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(21)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39)
Level 6: Focused Senses -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(23), GftotA-Run+(23), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 8: Siphon Life -- Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Nictus-Heal/HP/Regen/Rchg(11), Nictus-Heal(11), Nictus-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(13), Dmg-I(13), HO:Nucle(15)
Level 10: Practiced Brawler -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Agile -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(45), LkGmblr-Rchg+(45)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A)
Level 16: Dodge -- DefBuff-I(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+(42)
Level 18: Dark Consumption -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(39), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Oblit-%Dam(42)
Level 20: Quickness -- Run-I(A)
Level 22: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 24: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(25), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Aegis-ResDam(31), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(36), Aegis-EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 26: Soul Drain -- Erad-Dmg(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 28: Lucky -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), GftotA-Def(43), GftotA-Run+(43)
Level 30: Weave -- GftotA-Def(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx(31), GftotA-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(31), GftotA-Run+(34)
Level 32: Midnight Grasp -- SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg(A), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SScrappersS-Dmg/Rchg(33), SScrappersS-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SScrappersS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SScrappersS-Rchg/+Crit(34)
Level 35: Evasion -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(36), LkGmblr-Rchg+(36)
Level 38: Water Spout -- OvForce-Acc/Dmg(A), OvForce-Dam/KB(43), OvForce-End/Rech(45), OvForce-Acc/Dmg/End(46), OvForce-Dmg/End/Rech(46)
Level 41: Hibernate -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(48), GSFC-ToHit(50)
Level 49: Super Jump -- Winter-ResSlow(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Clrty-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(3), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(3), P'Shift-End%(37)
Level 50: Agility Radial Paragon
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Portal Jockey
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
------------



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Posted

Okay Doomguide, I have them out side by side. Sorry for always questioning minutia, but it's how I try to understand the method to get better at it myself.

So, first question: where, besides 10% Regen bonuses, where was I breaking the Rule of 5? I was pretty careful about that, or so I thought, pruning away extraneous 9% accuracies and the like. Maybe I misunderstand the rule?

Second, the numbers actually look significantly lower than mine, at least in Mids' for Defense. Is that true, or is it just a false artifact of set bonuses that actually won't count?

Third, you seem to really like GotA. Beides the Run bonus, is there something I'm missing?

Fourth, I realized I'm going to need to think very severely as to how exemplaring is going to impact these.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonDivinity View Post
Okay Doomguide, I have them out side by side. Sorry for always questioning minutia, but it's how I try to understand the method to get better at it myself.

So, first question: where, besides 10% Regen bonuses, where was I breaking the Rule of 5? I was pretty careful about that, or so I thought, pruning away extraneous 9% accuracies and the like. Maybe I misunderstand the rule?
Nope those 2 extra 10% Regen bonuses are the Rule breakers ... relatively trivial but if one can change them out for something else useful may as well. I swapped out for the GotA which will provide both +recovery and +end.

Quote:
Second, the numbers actually look significantly lower than mine, at least in Mids' for Defense. Is that true, or is it just a false artifact of set bonuses that actually won't count?
Hmmm not sure we're seeing the same numbers (for melee, range and AoE)? Only your melee seems truly higher. The others are less than 1% different. I generally aim for between 46 and 48, but you'd be hard pressed even against endgame foes solo to notice the difference between our values and both our builds could simply turn on Maneuvers and be well above 45% across the board as necessary.

Quote:
Third, you seem to really like GotA. Beides the Run bonus, is there something I'm missing?
The GotA set provides good set bonuses for 2 and 4 of the set compared to the other choices particularly since I was aiming to improve net end recovery. I used the GotA def/+run spd mostly because that IO is the only one of the set for which both portions provided benefit of the remaining choices left for the slots available. Endred and rech don't do anything for auto powers, and rech does very little for the toggles involved.

Quote:
Fourth, I realized I'm going to need to think very severely as to how exemplaring is going to impact these.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar...n_Enhancements

Go to 'Options'>'Configuration'>'Default IO Level' and set it to 25. Will give you a fairly close proximation of what your build might look like exemplared down to 22nd. See the above link for why I picked 25.

Hope that helps

Doomguide

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomguide View Post
Nope those 2 extra 10% Regen bonuses are the Rule breakers ... relatively trivial but if one can change them out for something else useful may as well. I swapped out for the GotA which will provide both +recovery and +end.
Duly noted. I think I see what happened. Your mixture of slotting gets fairly similar HP (losing on the LotGs, gaining on the mixed Melees), loses the redundant Accuracy, and slightly weakens the passives and toggles for a bit better endurance and running speed. Interesting tradeoff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomguide View Post
Hmmm not sure we're seeing the same numbers (for melee, range and AoE)? Only your melee seems truly higher. The others are less than 1% different. I generally aim for between 46 and 48, but you'd be hard pressed even against endgame foes solo to notice the difference between our values and both our builds could simply turn on Maneuvers and be well above 45% across the board as necessary.
So, comparing the later Incarnate-enabled version, yours is 54.2/53.2/53.2, while mine gets to 61.3/59.2/59.2. Looking at the build, the differences probably come from my use of the full Gaussian, Red Fortune, and Melee sets (and their corresponding bonuses), while yours gets more HP instead. Both of ours exceed the normal softcap without Incarnate or Maneuvers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomguide View Post
The GotA set provides good set bonuses for 2 and 4 of the set compared to the other choices particularly since I was aiming to improve net end recovery. I used the GotA def/+run spd mostly because that IO is the only one of the set for which both portions provided benefit of the remaining choices left for the slots available. Endred and rech don't do anything for auto powers, and rech does very little for the toggles involved.
If nothing else, this change really does appeal, since I am overcapped in at least Melee by a significant amount.

Those extra Aegis slots are also quite nice, now that I'm looking at them.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomguide View Post
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Exemplar...n_Enhancements

Go to 'Options'>'Configuration'>'Default IO Level' and set it to 25. Will give you a fairly close proximation of what your build might look like exemplared down to 22nd. See the above link for why I picked 25.

Hope that helps

Doomguide
Aside from Bloody Bay, I actually don't understand the logic of 25. I also am unsure how well setting this actually represents level 25. Even if it represents the effect of scaling well (and I'm not sure scaling matches IO level progression), it certainly doesn't take into account set bonuses that will simply shut off below a certain level.

Though this is making it look like, if I intend to exemp the character a lot, I should get the enhancements at the Paragon Market rather than Wentworth's. Unfortunately. I don't see any advantage to true IOs over the Paragon Market ones.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Doomguide
Hmmm not sure we're seeing the same numbers (for melee, range and AoE)? Only your melee seems truly higher. The others are less than 1% different. I generally aim for between 46 and 48, but you'd be hard pressed even against endgame foes solo to notice the difference between our values and both our builds could simply turn on Maneuvers and be well above 45% across the board as necessary.
No, because you didn't turn on all the toggles for his build. The Incarnate softcap is 59%, and that's what his build and mine aim for.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DaemonDivinity
I took what you gave me, tweaked a bit to get something a bit more "me." It looks quite a bit like yours, with a bit more attention to Tough and doing a bit more to get to endurance levels that I feel comfortable with.
Eh? My build has better endurance per second, and the ability usage is the same. ...And a better uptime on Soul Drain, and more maxhp... and the amount of resistance you gain is negligible. You do, however, hit 59% against AoE, and have better DDR. Which is great. So it's up to you.

Edit : Oh, incorporated a couple ideas from his build and yours. Here you go:

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You can burn the two numina's non-proc slots for better DDR or endurance usage if you prefer. The DDR is the thing most likely to make a noticeable difference.

 

Posted

Yeah, at this point I think they're all valid choices, with just slightly different priorities. Thanks for the help.

I definitely want to try to scrounge some of those extra slots to top out Tough's Aegis set.

One last question: why do you keep putting the full Red Fortune set in Evasion over Weave? The only real advantage to putting it one place over the other is the Endurance cost reduction, and Weave costs far more.

 

Posted

Oh, I just plugged a couple changes into my initial build. No particular reason at this point.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_NoMind View Post
No, because you didn't turn on all the toggles for his build. The Incarnate softcap is 59%, and that's what his build and mine aim for. ...
Yep that would definitely explain it as I was only concerned about getting the soft cap of 45% not the incarnate cap of 59%.

Adjusted for the i-cap. And yes there's a Glad proc in there ... if I'm going this far to try and IO heavily etc. then I am going to run content for lots of A-merits/merits and get a hold of one.

Not sure I would in fact build for the i-cap unless I planned to solo extensively in DA ... not even sure I would then but my play time lately has been minimal so my time in DA is non-existent. Might instead go Agility >> then Rebirth + inspires. Teamed or in Leagues my experience says I'll be generally swimming in +defense buffs from outside sources. YMMV and all that.


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Quote:
Aside from Bloody Bay, I actually don't understand the logic of 25. I also am unsure how well setting this actually represents level 25. Even if it represents the effect of scaling well (and I'm not sure scaling matches IO level progression), it certainly doesn't take into account set bonuses that will simply shut off below a certain level.

Though this is making it look like, if I intend to exemp the character a lot, I should get the enhancements at the Paragon Market rather than Wentworth's. Unfortunately. I don't see any advantage to true IOs over the Paragon Market ones.
It's do to how and when exemplar scaling kicks in (and hence the link I provided) as well as how set bonuses work. A level 25 IO dual aspect, a level 43 IO triple aspect and a level 50 quad and up aren't effected by scaling (if schedule A etc. etc.)>>

quoted from the Paragon Wiki article:
Quote:
Due to Step 1, you can use up to level 25 Dual-Aspect IOs, level 43 Tri-Aspect IOs, and level 50 Quad-Aspect IOs and suffer no bonus reduction unless you Exemplar to level 20 or lower. (Those breakpoints are only accurate for Schedule A benefits. Schedule B's are higher, C's and D's are lower.)
Combined with the fact any set bonus from level 25 IO's will work from level 22 and up is why I chose level 25 (vs 15 or 35 or whatever). Make sense? I would, however, take advantage of the ability to have multiple builds and make separate builds for exemplar and incarnate work though obviously this increases the expense considerable.

Doomguide

Edit: The catch you might note, is that defense IO's are schedule B and I'm not aware of where schedule B "break points" are except "higher" per the PW article and scaling effects either hit full value or not at all. Meaning if the defense IO's are effected they are probably at a level higher than 25 so level 25 LotG, for example, shouldn't be effected by scaling ... if I understand it correctly.

 

Posted

So I haven't worked on this build a lot. I'd been more focused on my tanker (this build will follow). With him, I began to explore a lot of Incarnate content and get a feel for it.

I definitely saw that, as a result of Maneuvers, Barriers, and other similar buffs flying around the leagues, most content you can usually cross the gap from normal softcap to i-softcap by default. In solo-play, there wasn't a problem that couldn't be solved between debuffing and a purple inspiration. So the benefit for having much beyond upper-40s Defense seemed to drop off.

On top of that, I saw a lot of Resistance set numbers are being altered. This has me considering the question: is it perhaps better to use sets to enhance Resists now (to get more milage out of the scaling passive resists)? And are any of the new or revised pool powers likely to fit well?