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Thanks States. Issue 5 has not been the doomsday that many said it would be and for that I'm thankful.
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You have to be kidding. Paragon is now a ghost town. My friends list is permantly gray.
Sorry but my Tank still hates I5. The Devs had well over a year to make the tanks "work as intended" and these new changes just seem pulled out of their butts. A few inspirations are not going to cut it. Many of us still feel betrayed.
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DITTO
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ditto- if I'm lucky I'll catch one on the weekends but it looks like once their subs expire they're gone
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Still, I think you diminished the game, overall. I fear that deep down, when you think of true comic book heroes, you're thinking of Archie and Jughead instead of, say, Spider-Man and Green Lantern.
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This is the best line of the entire thread- summarizes all my frustrations succintly and explains what I think the "vision" is about.
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I don't know why you or your friends' tankers are having so much trouble. The tankers I've teamed with have been certainly capable of handling their job on a team.
They just couldn't do it with us /em boombox at the door though.
This to me is a good thing, I'd like to have the feeling that me being on a team matters for more than padding the spawn sizes. I like thinking that the increase in mission difficult in response to my presence is mitigated by my contribution and that without my contribution things will be a lot harder for everyone.
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You are, of course, quite welcome to think that. The reality of the situation will not change, however.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
Hey.. How about instead of more and more nerfs, which you devs always seem to have time for, you fix some of the bugs and QOL problems which have existed since the game's release?
Here's just one example: The ability of any disoriented mob to leap 2 stories in one bound, or ignore slows/immobs.
This particular bug made my low-level MA/SR scrapper miserable. I had to be extremely careful about using my disorient powers, lest the mobs get away from me then go ranged.
It's *LUDICROUS* that we get nerf, nerf nerf nerf nerf, yet basic stuff like this isn't fixed.
It really adds to the feeling that the devs are the enemies of the players.
---------------------------------
Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
Uh. Hi. I am an Invuln scrapper. Need I say more?
ok I will. I am now the squishiest. lol.
[ QUOTE ]
So let me ask you how often during one of your campaigns do you tell a character that a power you've let them have for over a year isn't working like you're original concept so they can't use it anymore?
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Depending on your perspective... Yes.
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As a GM you should be outraged by these changes. you can't make this kind of drastic changes in the middle of a game and give either lame, or no excuses and expect the players to keep showing up to play.
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I'm sorry to have to disagree with you, but I do and I'll explain why.
As a GM its my job to make sure my players are having fun and appropriately rewarded for the challenges I assign them. If they are not appropriately rewarded either because the challenge is too much or not enough, its incumbant on me to make adjustments.
The key differance is that being the GM of a tabletop game or a LARP means I can directly and immediately adjust the content. I can modify the challenges my players face.
Are they too damage resistant? I increase the damage their enemies do.
Are they too able to evade being hit? I increase the tohit bonus of their enemies.
Is a power, spell, or ability disruptive or overpowering in the setting? I can adjust the setting with less than a snap of my fingers. Rather than nerf the power, I can buff the content. I can on the fly adjust the rewards assigned.
In a MMO there isn't 1 GM for every half-dozen to dozen PCs. It isn't possible to fine tune the content to handle group "A" that has all uber builds and optimal group and group "B" that does not have uber builds and is decidedly suboptimal level or archetype wise.
What can be done in a small setting like a tabletop game quickly breaks down to impossibility when you contemplate the scale of a virtual world like CoH. For an example, go back and read about how long it took the datamine for badges when they first came out: 3 months. Something "so simple as just datamine it" wasn't "so simple" after all.
If I had control would I have changed things differantly than the devs did? Maybe, but then again I don't have all the facts.
I will say though that the nature of gameplay in i5 has (for me and at all levels) become more dynamic, more fun, and I have yet to feel like I was dead weight or mission padding on a team. I'm happy with the result of the changes even if I am unhappy with the specifics in some cases.
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"No one likes feeling like they've had their toys taken away." I feel like I've had my car taken away. And the only way to get it back is to go all the way back to the beginning and start again.
I have a level 26 fire tank. Statesman took a bat to him, then a steel pipe. And if I want to make him an invulnerability tanker I have to delete him and start over. Badges, inf, missions, levels GONE. Why would I want to scrap my fire tank, because my main attack, the power that I created him for in the first place is now is less then 1/4 as effective as it was in I4.
Just for those tuning in late count with me
1. It has 1/2 the Duration
2. It has 2X the Recharge Time
3. It does les damage.
4. It has a limit on the number of targets it will hit (I never came close to the limit but it still is a limit.)
5. MOBS RUN FROM IT. My blaster can do I don't know how much more damage with a Fire ball, but they don't run from him. Oh and they keep burning after a Fire ball but step out of a Burn patch and have no more problems.
[/ QUOTE ]
Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing. All this change means, by the way, is that you actually need to use and slot your secondary powers.
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States answer to the complaints above, use control powers to keep them in the burn patch. Tankers being know for there great control powers. Oh wait no. But thats alright I planed ahead and have Ice as my secondary.
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Or, just for kicks, you could invite a controller or a controllerish defender like storm or dark and they will actually have an active and useful contribution to make outside of padding mission size. You can invite an AoE heavy blaster. You could invide a dark, radiation, or sonic defender who will debuff your enemies to the point where they die so quickly it won't matter. You could as a empath to buff you with recovery and regeneration auras and fortitude. You could ask a sonic or bubble defender to boost your defenses.
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But wait her comes statesman with that steel pipe I mentioned. AOE control powers are boring so once again. Ice Slick now is now is less then 1/4 as effective as it was in I4.
1. It has 1/2 the Duration
2. It has 2X the Recharge Time
3. It has a limit on the number of targets it will hit (I never came close to the limit but it still is a limit.)
And of course we wont change the end usage after dropping the effectiveness. That would make sense.
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Could it be that massive area affecting control powers were making combat too easy/predictable? I thought so. After all, where is the challenge in hitting one button and 100% (or close to it) locking down everything and being able to do that fight after fight after fight after....?
Personally, I'd like to see a group with two controllers where BOTH controllers feel needed and like they are making a differance. I'd like to see a group where one tanker doesn't just handle everything for the team with or without anyone else's support. My casual canvassing of tankers in-game has not revealed any that have had issues soloing single-person missions at levels higher than heroic even.
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I cant stop being a tank. I cant change my primary or secondary, I can change the powers I have with in them but why would I want to I created my too because burn sounded fun. And it was. Repeat WAS.
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As I already stated, I found that burn was overpowered. For a great many fire tankers it functioned as their only major attack outside of (maybe) firey aura. It allowed them to mass destroy swarms of bad guys. It was "fun" for those tankers because it was strong enough without counterbalancing downsides to greatly contribute to trivializing content.
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The only other MMOG I've played is AC and one of the things they added was a respec type thing where you could sell back powers you no longer needed...
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COH has been a lot of fun, but it seems that with every update fear becomes more of a factor. Not fear powers in the game MY FEAR that my toons wont be the same any more. Stop making these changes. Stop giving reasons like Our original concept, It was never supposed to work like it has been for over a year. Or you new favorite. We forgot to post about that. It wasn't intentional - it was an administrative error.
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Odd, but every issue that's had major power changes has included giving out free respecs. I also recall getting a free respec at Christmas and another at the 1yr anniversary. Oh yes, and we got one with i5 too.
Amazing huh?
There really isn't a reason to be afraid of changes the devs are going to make unless you become dependant on a use of a power that allows you to easily handle content that is self-evidently not meant to be handled solo. When one can easily handle content designed for a team as a single person one should be expecting the nerfbat is going to come swinging.
I've honestly been expecting to see tankers get beaten stupid with the nerfbat after watching them join a mission with 7 other people set at invincible and their 'team' is AFK at the mission entrance.
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QFlight and NForm were being used by kheldians as "travel powers with perks" and now their use as "travel power" is non-existant. That is a fundamental change, and players who respecced and obviously didn't know it was coming deserve a chance to rebuild characters around what the power will now do.
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By the way from The introduction to the Kheldians in I3
Neither Peacebringers nor Warshades can access the Flight or Teleport Power Pools. At first glance this looks like a major drawback, until you learn that Peacebringers inherently have Fly at Level 1, and Warshades can inherently Teleport. Kheldians can augment their travel powers with powers such as Group Energy Flight from the Luminous Aura set and Starless Step from the Umbral Blast set.
Looks like they were supposed to use these as travel powers since the account needed to have a lv 50 toon they already did their time with out one. So what do the Kheldians do for travel powers now? (Freely admint I might not know that I'm talking about for the Kheldians)
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Peacebringers are "supposed" to use energy flight (identical to the flight power from the power pool, but inherent at level 1. Warshades are "supposed" to use starless step (identical to teleport from the teleport power pool. They still have them.
What was happening was because it was always max flight speed, and provided a useful secondary feature in phasing (for QFlight) or as combat-jumping boosted a lot combined with the phasing effect, slot-starved kheldians devoted slots to those powers to get a double-benefit.
Since the phase portion has been given a similar adjustment as the power pool version they can't be used as a travel power and the slotting of the powers has been to support them as a travel power. The degree of slotting they're usually given is unecessary and overkill when applied strictly to an "escape" power.
This change should accompany an archetype-specific free respec since it came long enough after i5 that quite a few kheldians used their free respecs already.
And what about the changes to after I5:
Dull Pain effect
Force fields (sepciflyc force bubble)
Super reflexes passives (which were nurfed into obscurity in if and nove given a higher DEFEDE DEBUFF RESIST the nthe toggle s give them a value to get)
What about the changes to Ice Tankers and Stone to ad DEfDebuffResist?
Enervating Field's blatent lies
All this changes were done either post I5 or pre I% and never acknoledged even whe npresent evidence, theyeven went so far as to say that reports about EF were untrute the turn around and say they were true from the begining.
And you think 1 respect with I5 is enough when thei aret continuing to REBLANACE POWER OVER AND OVER AGAIN despites jacks BLATEN LIE he woud not change any more power sets?
AS it stands now im PETRIFED to use any respec, in a week the power st has a 80% chance to be changed.
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
Thanks States.
As I said from the beginning, I like almost all of the changes. I still think that a few need to be looked at... Tweaked if you will...but who doesn't...right..?
Thanks again...
Mike
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Once agian my point. This isnt a beta test. We shouldnt have to wonder and guess. And saying that i shouldnt see it coming is just rediculous. They spent all that time nerfing concealment and forgot khleds? Well if that is the case then they still owe me a respec. That is what these boards are for. I had thought that they had left those builds alone for a reason but as it turns out they probably forgot all about it and then when they realized sayed oh crap better do it quick. I dont accept your explination and we shouldnt have to guess or read the minds of the devs. How long should have i waited to respec her? 3 weeks? a month? 2 weeks before the next issue?
Ultimatly the complaint revolves around the devs ponying up and admiting they screwed up and fixing the problem.
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Not much I can say other than :
"Welcome to CoH."
I feel for ya, really I do, but the people that can do something about it and actually fix things don't give a rats [censored] about any of our opinions unless it mirrors their own. I haven't respec'd any of my characters. Why you ask? Because the characters in need of the respec now aren't my characters, they're Jack's characters. Why should I give a rats [censored] about someone else's characters?
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
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Once agian my point. This isnt a beta test. We shouldnt have to wonder and guess. And saying that i shouldnt see it coming is just rediculous. They spent all that time nerfing concealment and forgot khleds? Well if that is the case then they still owe me a respec. That is what these boards are for. I had thought that they had left those builds alone for a reason but as it turns out they probably forgot all about it and then when they realized sayed oh crap better do it quick. I dont accept your explination and we shouldnt have to guess or read the minds of the devs. How long should have i waited to respec her? 3 weeks? a month? 2 weeks before the next issue?
Ultimatly the complaint revolves around the devs ponying up and admiting they screwed up and fixing the problem.
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Not much I can say other than :
"Welcome to CoH."
I feel for ya, really I do, but the people that can do something about it and actually fix things don't give a rats [censored] about any of our opinions unless it mirrors their own. I haven't respec'd any of my characters. Why you ask? Because the characters in need of the respec now aren't my characters, they're Jack's characters. Why should I give a rats [censored] about someone else's characters?
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See thats woud be inconvient for jack, he has what a few thousand characters so he...er...we pay him to play his character for him.
tjat worse then herding and power leveling no matter how you cut it.
When wre PAYING to play somone elses character it aint right
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
The character and all rights to them have always been the property of NCSoft/Cryptic. You never owned them. You were always paying to borrow them and run them around a city which is not yours. You have less control over them than you thought, that's the only thing you can complain about and you should be complaining to yourself. You perceived the situation poorly.
Cancel your subscription if you don't like it.
CoH is now like every other MMO out there. No better, no worse. QoL issues are given lower priority than what the Devs feel are "not working as originally intended".
This will continue with every update. Going forward they will all contain more major nerfs. I know the Devs said they didn't want updates to be this way and I honestly believe at the time they meant it. However, that was when they were all new and shiney to the MMO world and wanted to make something different.
It's now like all the other choices out there (not specifically discussing genre here). If folks don't like it, try another. If you can tolerate what they've done, continue on.
Honestly though, complaining about it won't change a thing. In the beginning they took what their forum folks had to say into consideration. Almost all MMO's do. Then eventually what the players want comes second to what the Devs intended. It's simply the way it is.
I'm still playing. I still like the game. Mind you, I'm not playing many of the characters I was, but overall the game still entertains me.
I just had to comment on this Burn-related argument.
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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing.
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You obviously haven't played a fire tank in a while Katahn, or else you wouldn't be making such statements. Was burn overpowered "once upon a time"? Yes. Was it overpowered in I4? No. At the most it needed a slight trim, and it wasn't any more "overpowered" than a dozen of other powers for various powersets. In I5 burn is almost as useless as temperature protection - I don't want to burden any controllers by asking them to time their holds with my burn patches, and without holds only thing burn good for is making pretty fire.
The only thing that made fire tanks different, their offensive capabilities, have been taken away from us.
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The character and all rights to them have always been the property of NCSoft/Cryptic. You never owned them. You were always paying to borrow them and run them around a city which is not yours. You have less control over them than you thought, that's the only thing you can complain about and you should be complaining to yourself. You perceived the situation poorly.
Cancel your subscription if you don't like it.
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The character and all rights to them within the CoH gameworld are Cryptic's. That means that you personally cannot theoretically profit from them. That fallacy is tossed out the window the moment you do an eBay search for City of Heroes. People put alot of time into their characters and they rightfully feel that time is worth something to them. Completely changing the way a character acts can make the character no longer enjoyable to person that created it.
In the end, Jack, like any [censored] DM owns the game world and its his baby. He doesn't own the characters or the backgrounds of said characters. He only owns the representation of them in his game world. If I happen to enjoy playing said character in his game world then that's all fine and good. The moment he feels the need to change said character to the point I or its creator no longer identifies with it, its all his to do with as he wishes as far as I'm concerned.
Any number of [censored] DMs have decided to take over PCs of disgruntled players and do as they wish with them within their own game worlds. It's their world, they can do as they please. They can't expect those of us that don't enjoy it to continue playing in said game world. Most of us live in free countries and we can do whatever we want.
Toodles.
<sigh> Viv says its no longer "all me".
http://wendy-mags.mybrute.com/
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I just had to comment on this Burn-related argument.
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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing.
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You obviously haven't played a fire tank in a while Katahn, or else you wouldn't be making such statements. Was burn overpowered "once upon a time"? Yes. Was it overpowered in I4? No. At the most it needed a slight trim, and it wasn't any more "overpowered" than a dozen of other powers for various powersets. In I5 burn is almost as useless as temperature protection - I don't want to burden any controllers by asking them to time their holds with my burn patches, and without holds only thing burn good for is making pretty fire.
The only thing that made fire tanks different, their offensive capabilities, have been taken away from us.
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My opinion on Burn prior to i5 is unchanged and based on watching it be used as well as reading about how to best use it in the tanker forums. This opinion evidently is in harmony with the developers' opinions since they took pains to reduce it to something more appropriate.
Burn retains its usefulness as a means of freeing oneself from status effects and can be used to position enemies or block them from getting at squishies.
Fire tanker offense has not been taken away (as in eliminated or reduced in levels below what is appropriate for a tanker to be able to solo their missions on heroic - which identifies the appropriate minimum standard of power) in i5, to insinuate that is disengenuous. Firey aura in the primary still does damage and nicely helps with aggro lock on nearby mobs. Fire as a primary also has a buildup type damage boosting power with 3x the duration as that in the energy melee secondary or otherwise available to other archetypes. Fire tankers also have all of their same secondaries available to them besides.
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To sum up- i deleted my level 50 peacbringer. Thats right! I deleted the second toon i ever really played. Too bad really, I was good at playing her.
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Whoa there! Don't be hasty. Call for new respec and deciding in the same breath that you won't get one isn't constructive. At least wait a week or so for a response. And now b/c you were hasty, you don't have a 50PB to respec, even if we get one.
I understand you are upset but that is the most important time to be slow to act.
Justice is my Home!
Check out Mathematicians gone wonky in The Black Theorem (Arc 3608)!
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I just had to comment on this Burn-related argument.
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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing.
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You obviously haven't played a fire tank in a while Katahn, or else you wouldn't be making such statements. Was burn overpowered "once upon a time"? Yes. Was it overpowered in I4? No. At the most it needed a slight trim, and it wasn't any more "overpowered" than a dozen of other powers for various powersets. In I5 burn is almost as useless as temperature protection - I don't want to burden any controllers by asking them to time their holds with my burn patches, and without holds only thing burn good for is making pretty fire.
The only thing that made fire tanks different, their offensive capabilities, have been taken away from us.
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Burn was completely overpowered. It allowed a Burn tank to completely destroy a mob in seconds. It was ridiculous. When you could solo a 4 or 5 man mish set on Invincible, that's a sure sign that something is out of whack.
As for the "burden" put on Controllers, it's not a burden, it's called teamwork. You know, that stuff that's supposed to happen on a team instead of having the Burn tank herd the room and drop a couple Burn patches while the rest of the team sits there twiddling their thumbs because they really aren't actually needed other than for spawn sizes?
There's two types of people when talking about the impact of the changes to Burn:
Those who are realistic, know it was grossly overpowered, and while they may be disappointed with the change are still fine with it because it needed to happen. Then there are those that refuse to see the reality of it, want their tank to be an offensive powerhouse, and just simply don't realize what a Tank's job actually is. Here's a hint, it's not destroying mobs...
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I just had to comment on this Burn-related argument.
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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing.
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You obviously haven't played a fire tank in a while Katahn, or else you wouldn't be making such statements. Was burn overpowered "once upon a time"? Yes. Was it overpowered in I4? No. At the most it needed a slight trim, and it wasn't any more "overpowered" than a dozen of other powers for various powersets. In I5 burn is almost as useless as temperature protection - I don't want to burden any controllers by asking them to time their holds with my burn patches, and without holds only thing burn good for is making pretty fire.
The only thing that made fire tanks different, their offensive capabilities, have been taken away from us.
[/ QUOTE ]
The problem as with many of the I5 issues was a combination of powers. Too many fire tanks used burn as their only offence, ice patch as their only non forced pick from their secondary, went on Dreck farms, herded half the map into a box, ice patch/burn thankyou and goodnight, next half map please. Lots of reward, not that much risk as you found out how many you could survive herding. Even worse when the 50 herds 46s for the benefit of the 42s in attendance, make that no risk.
The fire tanks I play with most of the time rarely use burn, in fact the one I mainly play with has respeced it out. He is still a very effective tank. He has the advantage that he is fire/fire not fire/ice so still churns out the damage.
I believe fire/ice tanks are now well underpowered due to the nerfs and should probably be allowed to pick a new secondary power pool as their entire reason for choosing that combo has been nerfed out of existence.
Burn can still be effective with the right party/duo (an ice/kin would work well in a duo as it has ice slick, mass hold, mass immob, fulcrum shift, cone slow, speed boost and increase density), but demands a bit more thought now.
I'm much more concerned with the controller nerfs, as I feel they've unbalanced the controller primaries even more. My ill/kin has just gone from 40-50 very quickly, doing a lot of it solo on invincible, and the rest on 8 man teams killing AVs. I feel he was made far more powerful by I5, I lost one phantasm, and gained double damage to my attacks which worked better for me, particularly once I got the epic AoE.
My ice/storm however was underpowered before I5, and now might be able to solo -2s, but it would be too painfully slow to try. She has been reduced to a group only toon, and to contribute needs the right group to team with. I made the toon to incapacitate things and have my pets kill them, I have three damaging powers, block of ice, gale and brawl so containment doesn't help me much, having three jack frosts did. Yes I can respec the toon and make it effective, but I don't see why I should have to play a style of toon I didn't want to play, when the original was in no way overpowered and got caught in the collateral damage of the nerf to curtail the 'I'm a fire/rad and me and my army of imps can solo +2 AVs' problem.
Psycho Clown 50 ill/kin/psi controller Freedom
Ms Blizzard 35 ice/storm controller Freedom
Mr Minotaur 50 stone/axe tank Freedom
Toxic Texan 50 DM/regen scrapper Infinity
and 50+ others
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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To sum up- i deleted my level 50 peacbringer. Thats right! I deleted the second toon i ever really played. Too bad really, I was good at playing her.
[/ QUOTE ]
Whoa there! Don't be hasty. Call for new respec and deciding in the same breath that you won't get one isn't constructive. At least wait a week or so for a response. And now b/c you were hasty, you don't have a 50PB to respec, even if we get one.
I understand you are upset but that is the most important time to be slow to act.
[/ QUOTE ]
Im so glad I ALWAYS thoguht Q-flight was dumd. Anyone who deletes their kheld over these changes made some stupid decisons to begin with, this is just another.
Wow 27 pages of rants threats and general dissapoint. But what really pisses me off its not they messed up but its that complete lack of communication, they gave us no warning on these Sept 20 update but now no communication on our responses and complaints.
MMO break down when devs stop commicating with the public. CoH takes one more step toward the gutter. Next step CoV
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While I am happy with the performance of Tanker Invulnerability after level 18 (Invincibility), I am not happy with the feel of it. Fire Armor and Kheldian Dwarves have the Invulnerable feel, despite the fact that they both underperform Invulnerability, survival wise, in most situations.
This is due to the fact that Invulnerability has such low non-Smashing/Lethal resistance, and such high +def from Invincibility. When I play my Invuln Tanker in Croatoa against the Fir-Bolg, 90% of her survival comes from Invincibility and Dull Pain, which makes her feel like some kind of weird cross between Super Reflexes and Regeneration in style. It just doesn't feel right.
Invulnerability is one of the most famous of comic book powers. Invulnerable heroes gain the ability to take hits and shrug them off, not dodge or heal them. I really wish you would consider trading Invincibility effectiveness for more effective non-Smashing/Lethal resistance. If you feel we are at the right level of survivability, I don't see anything wrong with trading where that survivability comes from. It would also be nice to have slots in our passives provide something meaningful.
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Thanks liquid. This is exactly my point too. Please seriously consider re-balancing the res/def levels of invuln so it is less powerful than pre-I5 (that part is fine, Invuln is my favorite set far and away, but it was extremely powerful before), but that the passives are worth taking/slotting and Invinc is less over-powered and counter-intuitive to use. We should get hit often but take less damage (i.e. resistance over defense), not this odd dodge monster Invuln is nowadays. We have always been over-reliant on Invinc anyway, it would seem to make more sense to make us rely on our resists from 5 powers over just one power that is +defense.
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Sorry if I interject like this, but I really wanted to point out that I agree with Vixen's and Liquid's opinions. As I stated often elsewhere in the forums, Invulnerability's feel is gone, and our Tankers are less fun to play.
We were the tough ones from the comics. We are not now. "Anarca SMASH!" was fun, "Anarca DODGES!" is not.
If I5 was aiming for more fun through more challenge and balance, it missed the mark for me.
People are leaving the game. I miss my buddies!
Bye all.
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Sorry if I interject like this, but I really wanted to point out that I agree with Vixen's and Liquid's opinions. As I stated often elsewhere in the forums, Invulnerability's feel is gone, and our Tankers are less fun to play.
We were the tough ones from the comics. We are not now. "Anarca SMASH!" was fun, "Anarca DODGES!" is not.
If I5 was aiming for more fun through more challenge and balance, it missed the mark for me.
People are leaving the game. I miss my buddies!
Bye all.
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Same on all counts. Good post.
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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing. All this change means, by the way, is that you actually need to use and slot your secondary powers.
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So you have a fire tank? Or is this the opinion of an outsider? Have you lived through the first 17 levels of pain till you get burn? Then another 5 to slot it so it does some good? Or is this all from things youve seen and heard?
I will admit, and Ive read other posts that agree, burn was over powered, I would have shrugged off having the damage decreased. I would have grudgingly lived with the excessive recharge rate. But having a HUGE fear component goes too far. Burn 5 slotted for damage does less then many other powers, but mobs run from it now. Statesman Sez. Its because no one would willingly stand in fire. But mobs do that all the time. Blazing aura burns anyone that gets into melee with me, and they still do.
They get into melee with scrapers
They attack tanks while ignoring scrappers and blasters.
The stand around in AOE debuffs instead of getting away from the anchor.
Mobs are stupid. They should stand in fire and keep fighting.
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Or, just for kicks, you could invite a controller or a controllerish defender
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And if I dont like to team? If I cant find a team? If I cant find a controller/defender? What then?
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Could it be that massive area affecting control powers were making combat too easy/predictable? I thought so. After all, where is the challenge in hitting one button and 100% (or close to it) locking down everything and being able to do that fight after fight after fight after....?
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100%? So youve never played a controller either.
AOE Control powers have an accuracy penalty so you need to add an Acc SO to get it to hit like every other power without any Acc.
Then you have bosses (have to hit twice successfully to hold)
AVs (Look for the Invisible arrows)
Its not 100% without a lot of work.
If you do manage to hold every one then:
Solo: youre going to get killed when they get out of the hold
Team: Mobs already dead and the team is moving on to the next group.
Teams are looking for controllers to help with bosses. Holding the minions is a bonus. One that we can now do every 3-4 groups.
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It was "fun" for those tankers because it was strong enough without counterbalancing downsides to greatly contribute to trivializing content.
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Without downsides?
Fiery aura has the worst defense out of any tank.
We need Tough from the fighting pool to cap slashing/Lethal defense
We need Weave from combat jumping to resists knockdown/back (Critical now)
Our Toxic Resistance is tied to a healing power with a slow recharge.
Those are the downsides we pay for burn. And why we dont have slots left over for our secondaries, or for that mater a lot of secondaries.
My experience is that we also dont do well in teams, Teams looking for tanks need tanks to take damage and agro. Compared to other tanks Im squishy. And now with the fear component of burn I cant hold agro.
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Odd, but every issue that's had major power changes has included giving out free respecs. I also recall getting a free respec at Christmas and another at the 1yr anniversary. Oh yes, and we got one with i5 too.
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I was using an example from another game system so you misunderstood. I have a level 26 Fire/Ice Tanker. I chose that because the powers worked best for how I play. Mostly solo, few hours at a time. They have now changed the powers so I cant continue playing as a Fire/Ice Tanker. I want to be an Inv/Ax Tanker, or a TA/A Defender. There is currently nothing in place that allows me to do this short of deleting my character and starting over. Its not my fault that my Fire/Ice tanker doesnt work for me any more the devs changed his powers on me. They can give me a repec a day for the rest of my life, but he will always be a Fire/Ice Tanker.
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There really isn't a reason to be afraid of changes the devs are going to make unless you become dependant on a use of a power that allows you to easily handle content that is self-evidently not meant to be handled solo. When one can easily handle content designed for a team as a single person one should be expecting the nerfbat is going to come swinging.
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Nerf yes. Changing the feel of an entire power set no. When they take a power that defines the set and change it completely, then yes Im afraid. When they do it to everyone then, Yes Im afraid. And when they Sold the game almost a Year ago and they still are changing this much then, YES Im afraid.
The Devs seem to want Inv to be a defense rather than a Resist set. To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks. I do not want a Regen/SR Scranker. I want a resists Tank. The reduction on all of our primaries was too extreme. Iron Vixen and others had pointed out that Inv was overpowered and offer intelligent suggetions to fix them. Instead we get the "Balance vision" which is only balanced in their minds not the gaem.
Server Guardian
Megalithe Level 50 INV/SS
Pure Force Level 46 NRG/NRG Blaster
Hot Icey Level 34 Ice/Ice Blaster
INV Tanks New Motto
N.U.B.A.R.
Nerfed Up Beyond All Repair
Once agian my point. This isnt a beta test. We shouldnt have to wonder and guess. And saying that i shouldnt see it coming is just rediculous. They spent all that time nerfing concealment and forgot khleds? Well if that is the case then they still owe me a respec. That is what these boards are for. I had thought that they had left those builds alone for a reason but as it turns out they probably forgot all about it and then when they realized sayed oh crap better do it quick. I dont accept your explination and we shouldnt have to guess or read the minds of the devs. How long should have i waited to respec her? 3 weeks? a month? 2 weeks before the next issue?
Ultimatly the complaint revolves around the devs ponying up and admiting they screwed up and fixing the problem.