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Burn was ridiculously overpowered in my opinion and was desperately in need of a hardcore nerfing. All this change means, by the way, is that you actually need to use and slot your secondary powers.
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So you have a fire tank? Or is this the opinion of an outsider? Have you lived through the first 17 levels of pain till you get burn? Then another 5 to slot it so it does some good? Or is this all from things youve seen and heard?
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The funny thing is that ignoring burn doesn't hurt a fire tanker's ability to deal damage in a team setting with team support, and it certainly isn't required for soloing a single-person mission set to heroic difficulty. Dealing damage is a function of tanker secondaries, not primaries, and damage in the primaries is basically "gravy".
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I will admit, and Ive read other posts that agree, burn was over powered, I would have shrugged off having the damage decreased. I would have grudgingly lived with the excessive recharge rate. But having a HUGE fear component goes too far. Burn 5 slotted for damage does less then many other powers, but mobs run from it now. Statesman Sez. Its because no one would willingly stand in fire. But mobs do that all the time. Blazing aura burns anyone that gets into melee with me, and they still do.
They get into melee with scrapers
They attack tanks while ignoring scrappers and blasters.
The stand around in AOE debuffs instead of getting away from the anchor.
Mobs are stupid. They should stand in fire and keep fighting.
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Our opinion of what should happen is irrelevant. I think what should have happened was for invulnerability as a primary to be a resistance-defined set, not a defense-based set by way of invincibility and herding. As a player in even a tabletop game I've disagreed with rulings of game masters at various times or the house rules they've implemented.
But do you know what? It was their game, their decision to construct the hows and whys of it the way they did. In the case of burn it is a power that creates a duration-sustained firey field seperate from the hero and that has the primary use of freeing the hero from immobilization effects and motivating mobs to not run through it or stay in it.
Used when a group of mobs have aggroed to a squishy teammate, burn immediately functions to get the nearby mobs to stop attacking that teammate and start running for their lives. That sounds like an incredibly useful tanker ability to me. It can be used to block doors and form choke points to control how mobs enter an area. That sounds pretty cool too. Remember, a tanker is "a melee-based controller" just as a scrapper is a "melee-based blaster". A tanker's role on a team is similar to a controllers, they just do it differantly.
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Or, just for kicks, you could invite a controller or a controllerish defender
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And if I dont like to team? If I cant find a team? If I cant find a controller/defender? What then?
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Personally I'd suggest adapting and figuring out how to meet the challenge. I'd also suggest that the notion that anyone should have an expectation to be able to perform solo in single-player-missions at a reputation level higher than heroic is unrealistic.
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Could it be that massive area affecting control powers were making combat too easy/predictable? I thought so. After all, where is the challenge in hitting one button and 100% (or close to it) locking down everything and being able to do that fight after fight after fight after....?
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100%? So youve never played a controller either.
AOE Control powers have an accuracy penalty so you need to add an Acc SO to get it to hit like every other power without any Acc.
Then you have bosses (have to hit twice successfully to hold)
AVs (Look for the Invisible arrows)
Its not 100% without a lot of work.
If you do manage to hold every one then:
Solo: youre going to get killed when they get out of the hold
Team: Mobs already dead and the team is moving on to the next group.
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You know, I've been on teams at all levels of the game, and I've watched my friends who played controllers function in those teams. While its not "never" that one sees a few mobs escape an AoE hold they don't generally appear to have nearly the difficulty you allude to.
What I witness in having watched them, as well as controllers in PuGs at various levels of gameplay, is that AoE controls basically resulted in "stand/hover there and spam attacks until everything was defeated". It made missions, even at invincible, rather easy.
Reducing the duration and frequency of usability of AoE holds has done wonders to add a feeling of being something other than a controllers player-controlled pet. 
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Teams are looking for controllers to help with bosses. Holding the minions is a bonus. One that we can now do every 3-4 groups.
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Really? Single target holds weren't given the AoE hold nerf. Since bosses rarely appear in numbers greater than 2 or 3, and that being on an 6-8 man team where one might reasonably have a second tanker, extra scrapper, more than one defender...
Well, one controller shouldn't be able to provide 100% of the controlling needs of a 6-8 man team flawlessly or without downtime to let their powers recharge. The explanation is simple: if they could, why would a team want to invite a second controller? Barring the occasional emergency or badly timed add, a second controller is little more than a pet-generator and mission padder.
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It was "fun" for those tankers because it was strong enough without counterbalancing downsides to greatly contribute to trivializing content.
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Without downsides?
Fiery aura has the worst defense out of any tank.
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As an aside, I am amused to point out that players of invulnerability tankers have been known to disagree.
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We need Tough from the fighting pool to cap slashing/Lethal defense
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Or one can recruit a defender to join one's team. Sonic directly buffs resistance, forcefields boost defense, dark miasma debuffs accuracy (often being able to floor it), storm debuffs mob accuracy, empathy provides fortitude which buffs resitance and damage. These buffs are also available from controllers in their secondaries.
Controllers and defenders being support archetypes should have a reasonable expectation of their team members needing that support.
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We need Weave from combat jumping to resists knockdown/back (Critical now)
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Or hover works too as far as I know. Just 4-6 slot it for flightspeed and you have something pretty darned zippy and useful for chasing aerial foes too.
Also while KB is annoying as heck (believe me I know) it doesn't detoggle you and doesn't prevent a tanker from performing their role in a team: meat shield and aggro manager. It might slow down being able to cast the taunt power, but with an aura effect going Guantlet is alive and well.
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Our Toxic Resistance is tied to a healing power with a slow recharge.
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Sonic and Forcefield defenders and controllers can protect you against toxic damage.
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Those are the downsides we pay for burn. And why we dont have slots left over for our secondaries, or for that mater a lot of secondaries.
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For pure tanking, a fire tanker only needs +10 slots to be added to Fire Shield and Plasma Shield (bring each to 6-slots) and with even SOs has 66% res to S/L/E/N, 90%+ res to F, 30-40% (I believe) to C, and then situational res to Toxic from Healing Flames and its default slot.
Since Toxic damage is not an especially common form of damage in the game, I daresay the situation isn't as grim as you describe. Factor in that Tough from the fighting pool can cap a fire tankers S/L resists (or come close enough) and I will have to call you on exaggerating the plight of fire tanks in i5. I will definitely call that on claims that the purported weaknesses of fire "balanced" pre-i5 burn.
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My experience is that we also dont do well in teams,
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Really? That's not been my experience.
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Teams looking for tanks need tanks to take damage and agro.
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Which fire tankers can still do nicely, its just they might actually need a team to support them when tanking team-level content. Odd concept for some people it seems.
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Compared to other tanks Im squishy. And now with the fear component of burn I cant hold agro.
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Fire tankers are more squishy than other tankers? Funny, I read quite a bit about invulnerability primary tankers complaining that fire tanks were better.... 
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Odd, but every issue that's had major power changes has included giving out free respecs. I also recall getting a free respec at Christmas and another at the 1yr anniversary. Oh yes, and we got one with i5 too.
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I was using an example from another game system so you misunderstood. I have a level 26 Fire/Ice Tanker. I chose that because the powers worked best for how I play. Mostly solo, few hours at a time. They have now changed the powers so I cant continue playing as a Fire/Ice Tanker. I want to be an Inv/Ax Tanker, or a TA/A Defender. There is currently nothing in place that allows me to do this short of deleting my character and starting over. Its not my fault that my Fire/Ice tanker doesnt work for me any more the devs changed his powers on me. They can give me a repec a day for the rest of my life, but he will always be a Fire/Ice Tanker.
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Nothing that happened in i5 shoudl have rendered you unable to solo your own missions on heroic. If you cannot, I suggest you consult with your fellow tankers regarding your build and look for advice on respeccing.
My response to Issue 5 was initially extremely negative.
Now that I5 has gone live, my view is tempered somewhat.
New Content
With regards the new zone I think it's an excellent idea, and we definitely need more of them now that this game has crossed the one year mark.
Usually when a MMORPG has been around this long there is a large Expansion Pack that is sold to the public that contains several new zones and content for players of all levels to enjoy. This has not happened with CoH, and instead we get Issues that usually contain a new zone or some new element of content. This is in keeping with other MMORPGs, but we have yet to get our Full Expansion which would, for example, include about 4 new areas complete with new Interiors for Missions and city graphics etc.
The new badges gives the level 50s something to do, perhaps, and all this new content is good.
Massive Reduction in power effectiveness
This Issue saw the largest change in gameplay that I have ever experienced in a Top Tier game through a patch in all my years of gaming, and that's about 20 years.
I still think it is literally anathema to so radically alter gameplay when your game has built up a consistent fanbase.
A game designer should not change the basic rules by which a game is played on their playerbase over a year after the game has been released. It just isn't done.
NBA Officials don't raise the height of the ring in basketball because their players are hitting all their jumpshots. Players have already become accustomed and train for a 10 foot ring, officials can't change such a basic aspect of gameplay .
Doing this goes far far beyond 'Play Balance', it is actually 'Game Re-design'.
I5 Represents The Developers' Vision
After such a long time whether players are playing the game as the developer intended or not is completely immaterial and irrelevant. At this point the Developers must work around the player base and accommodate their play styles with new content, AI Changes or other Positive Reinforcement means to develop and progress the title. Redesigning the game should never be seen as being an option.
No developer has said anything on these forums or in the press which I have read which indicates that making Postive changes to address the current Playstyle was not possible. What has been said over and over is that the game was too easy.
It is a simple fact that if players can maximise their character effectiveness to match their style of play then they WILL do so. If they can get maximum 75% S/L resistance then they WILL do so. This is common sense, the statements made by the development team that they were 'surprised' at these things and 'never intended' to me is evidence of a lack of realistic vision and consistent gameplay philosophy.
After a year and a half, the game is Too Easy
Radically altering game play is not the answer to developers suddenly, after a year and a half, realising a game is too easy. If it took a year and a half for a development team to realise a game is too easy then something went wrong during the Design, Testing, Alpha and Beta phase of the title with regards to Play Balancing.
I5 Represents inconsistent Gameplay Philosophies
To me, there does not appear to be any consistent gameplay philosophy in City of Heroes' Game Mechanics. Things are made up and changed as the game goes along, which to me is poor game design. The fact that CoH is a MMORPG is absolutely no excuse.
Strategies which have been developed by players are likely to become irrelevant with the next patch. Any configuration you have for your powers and your character is likely to be useless with the next patch. These are the fears of the current playerbase in City of Heroes, and this simply is not right.
If such a terrible Imbalance existed that the game needed to be Re-Designed it should have been caught earlier before the playerbase spent in excess of 400 hours or more with their characters. We should not have gotten an 'Issue 5' Redesign to cope with it.
The most recent example of inconsistent design philosophy are the recently added Damage Resistance Inspirations that were thrown into the game post I5, to assist with the loss of Defense and resistance that was introduced in I5. What?
Postive Additions As A Solution
What should happen now, is that new opponents are introduced that optionally represent a greater challenge to those players who have mastered the existing monsters. For example, if because of high Smashing/Lethal resistance characters are able to herd multiple Nemesis, introduce a Nemesis character which does primarily energy damage and include that in the existing Spawns in certain zones. Adjust Monster AI so Monsters can 'defend' against the Herding tactic. This will force a change in strategy for those players who were routinely killing Nemesis before. This sort of thing is much better and far more positive and interesting to Players as opposed to dropping every Character's Smashing/Lethal resistance by 50%. And then turning around and rebalancing everything else to try to make up for it. It is understood that such changes involve work, but from a costumer perspective sorting that out and more importantly designing so this is never necessary on such a large scale, is the developer's business, not the Customers.
I have never seen a Developer from Cryptic respond as to why the solution of Postive additions is not preferable from a customer perspective.
It is a fact that none of these changes in I5 have prevented Power Leveling in the game, or herding as a factor of Power Leveling a character. People are still doing it, and maybe even more successfully with a 25% XP boost.
Security through obscurity
Another point which Issue 5 did not address, is the fact that information on the powers in City of Heroes is practically non existent. This is actually brought to the forefront as we now have a plethora of posts and guides seeking to discover and explain to fellow players the new numbers behind the powers.
This is probably the reason it took so long for the game to suddenly be recognised as 'easy'. By not allowing the player base to make informed decisions you had a majority of the player population making ineffective decisions on how to build their character and then being stuck with those decisions. Only after trial and error did the best combinations of powers emerge. These players with the wherewithal to figure out these combinations then communicated these effective combinations to the rest of the player community.
This is clearly shown when new players post that they don't have a clue what Integration does or how it fits into the Regeneration set. The only reason I knew is because I read a few Guides on the message forums. It is a disservice if a player creates a character in a manner which would greatly reduce their enjoyment of the Archetype, simply because they are not given the information they require to understand the Archetype and it's powers.
Developers should not be recommending that Players Read the Message Forums to get information on their game.
Players should read the forums if they want to, to get better strategies, interact with the wider player community, pick up tips and tricks etc. , not to Understand The Basic Powers of the Game.
To go with my Basketball analogy:
It is the same as players playing a game of basketball being told that "Points are increased the further away from the basket the ball is thrown", and finding out through trial and error that if they stand behind the 3 point line they get 3 points, and this does not increase even if they sink a basket from the Half way line.Trial and error implies that a few dedicated players stand with measuring tapes and shoot the ball into the basket (however long that takes), note the points, stand further back, shoot the ball, note the points until they finally realise the 'Rule'. Does this seem absurd? I think it does .But this is exactly the sort of lack of information we get currently for our powers in City of Heroes.
If you 'hide the numbers' in a common game you see how ridiculous it becomes.
This is the exact same basic tenet for Game Design for an outdoor court game as for a MMORPG or Roleplaying Game.Players need to know the parameters and the rules in order to play properly. Its common sense.
To me it is obtuse to not give players correct information in an attempt to prevent them from developing strategies to score 3-pointers regularly during games.
What is 'Moderate', 'Short time' ,'Minor' etc.? What do these words mean when applied to the Gameplay Mechanics? When a player hits an enemy do you do Moderate Damage? Not at all, the player does a Fixed Quantity of damage. An AV does not have 'A high amount' of Hit Points, it has a fixed Number of hit points. Why should this be hidden from a player? Your Combat Log does not say," You receive Moderate damage". Your Health bar does not say," You are almost dead". It's all numbers. So the game shows the numbers on one hand, but hides them on the other. I dont understand.
I'd like to see descriptions like this in the next patch:
Toggle | Self | Single
Cost: 0.20 Act: 2 Rchg: 10
Recharge (Has): 6
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While active you are constantly moving, this increases defense to melee and ranged attacks.
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Defense : Melee, Range( 9.53% ) ( Tanker )
Defense : Melee, Range( 9.53% ) ( Controller )
Defense : Melee, Range( 9.53% ) ( Defender )
Defense : Melee, Range( 9.53% ) ( Peacebringer )
Defense : Melee, Range( 9.53% ) ( Warshade )
Defense : Melee, Range( 7.15% ) ( Scrapper )
Defense : Melee, Range( 6.67% ) ( Blaster )
If the Developers are afraid of confusing players that cannot do simple addition and subtraction, then with each Patch Post the Numbers behind the powers on the much recommended message boards.
If a game is varied and interesting enough then there will be several ways for players to approach their characters. If the game mechanics are weak and content is sparse then maybe one might feel the need to 'hide' things to avoid everyone taking the same build. So which is it with City of Heroes?
Players Must Understand The Game.I5 brings to the fore that there is a lot about the game Players do NOT understand
After speaking to several players from different MMORPGs it is fact that ALL of them display Character Statistics to players. ALL Pen and Paper RPGs display character stats. ALL Computer RPGs display character Stats. The reason for this
is obvious and common sense. Your characters are based on these statistics, therefore in order for you the player to develop your character you need to know what your choices *MEAN* in the gameworld. If you want to you can see the Enemy statistics, look at your own statistics and develop strategies. Or you can just play the game blindly, your choice. In COH we don't have a choice, unless Players spend lots of time writing up guides and doing number crunching, which no one pays them for.
For example, Players have been told that in Issue 5 Tough and Weave have their endurance costs 'Increased'. What on earth does that mean in the actual game?
What does 'Increased' translate to??
0.4 endurance per second? 0.2 Endurance per second? What does it mean?
When picking powers or Respecing how will a player know if they can or Cannot run Tough with their character anymore?
Must a player Respec and hope for the best, and if it doesn't work out then what happens to that player and their character?
Beta Testing Blindly can lead To I5
ERGO there is inadequate testing. It takes players several months to discover best power combinations. A Developer does not spend half a year to Beta Test a title. So during Beta Testing, since players still do not know one heck about the game's powers a developer will never understand how the game will progress and how Players will act in their gameworld when players finally do understand the numbers behind the powers. This makes Beta Testing under these conditions ineffective for measuring Long Term Gameplay trends. A Developer will end up in a silly circle of making a change, hiding the numbers, the players playing for a few months, figuring out the numbers and optimising their characters, then the developer makes a change, hides the numbers and so on and so on.
CoH Gameplay,Roleplaying and BackStory
I5 altered the gameplay of CoH. Taken in Aggregate this may have been a good thing since it did force new strategies to develop and made a few of the archetypes more relevant without completely crippling the playerbase. I'm having fun in I5, and a lot of other people are as well. A new player to the game won't know that anything has changed, and the game is certainly very enjoyable now as is.
City of Heroes goes a different route to the regular MMORPG and there is no option for this Setting and Genre anywhere else in an MMORPG currently on the market.
CoH pulled me into the world of MMORPGs fully by allowing me to Solo easily and fight multiple opponents at once generally imparting a feeling of true Heroic Characters.
These positive things aren't something new in I5, but I thought I would mention them anyways.The Positive aspects that existed before I5 still remain in the game today.I5 did not totally change them.
The backstories, the rich tapestry behind the different Factions and the sheer amount of missions and content in the game is excellent. The History and Roleplaying elements of City of Heroes is totally totally excellent.The sheer variety of Characters you can create is fantastic!! You see so many different heroes out there with color combinations and different power picks: it's wonderful.
CoH has a game design feature that no other MMORPG provides! All the other MMORPGs end up at the highest levels with characters that look the same.
With City of Heroes the focus is on your HERO, not on their 'gear'. The character is the Power, the clothes don't make the hero! This is excellent.
Again, these are not 'new' things which were added in I5, so it probably shouldn't be mentioned in this thread but I felt I had to say it, because I think it's such a fantastic and enthralling part of CoH.
Summary
Whilst I5 isn't the portent for DOOOOOM that I first thought it would be after playing on Test when it had just been released, in my view it still represents a negative step. I would have very much preferred minor tweaking and play
balancing of powers with Postive measures toward making the game more challenging instead of the enormous Negative alterations to characters and drastic alteration of accuracies and other game mechanics.
Instead of looking toward future patches as bringing expanded gameplay and positive features, I now fear that I will be forced to alter my gameplay and character build yet again and worry that I may no longer wish to play the character, or the game.
To me this is not conducive to feeling comfortable with giving a subscription fee to a game and forming a long term commitment to a game.
There has been speculation, which seems logical, that all these changes are because City of Heroes needs to interact with City of Villains, and has nothing to do with City of Heroes in general at all. This, if true, explains a lot. But of course this has never been communicated to the player base by the producers or developers, so it remains pure speculation.
It also makes me quite wary of recommending the new City of Villains, since from everything I have read it is going to be more of the same with some additions. I do not think I will be happy if I must go through these same sweeping
changes after becoming comfortable in City of Villains because at the core developer level nothing would have changed in game methodology and approach.
However, my Pre-Order is in and I am eager to see what new things await in CoV because I'm an addict 
.
My vote for I5 The Update - 45% (Should never have been necessary).
My vote for City of Heroes The Game With I5 - 70%
-Jentia Argool(Bostic)
Freedom Server
Spines/Regen I5 Guide!
SG:-Civic Alliance
Jentia Argool (41)- Spines/Regen Scrapper
Justice Server - Jab Molassie (14) En/Ela Brute
Devil Mas(11) Dk/Dk Brute
Hechler Glocklan (20) Th/Dk MM
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To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.
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I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.
He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.
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Your resists
90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi
That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L. I strongly suggest you 6 slot Invincibility with defense and start using it if you plan to fight against foes that don't primarily use S/L. You can claim all you want that you solo Invincibile level missons but you can't be fighting non-S/L foes in numbers or you'd never live on those numbers.
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To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.
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I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.
He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.
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Your resists
90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi
That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L. I strongly suggest you 6 slot Invincibility with defense and start using it if you plan to fight against foes that don't primarily use S/L. You can claim all you want that you solo Invincibile level missons but you can't be fighting non-S/L foes in numbers or you'd never live on those numbers.
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Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.
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Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.
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Tough Hide is a fine power. I take it and slot it before I would take of slot any other Inv power. Let me explain quickly why.
Even Con Minion base acc is 50%
Combined RPD, REle, REne 6 slotted will stop 18% of that damage. TH alone will stop 22% (assuming non-Toxic). It doesn't hold as well as we go up but it stays up to close to all three combined for quite a bit. Also note not getting hit means no secondary effects will get you either.
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Your resists
90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi
That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L.
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Hm at lvl 40: Rikti bosses with Psi, CoT with plenty of Fire/Energy, Devouring Earth toxins, Council energy weapons... Yep, lots of non-S/L. Again, all on Invincible, solo and teamed.
So "Hardly enough" is just not true. I can really understand how those who play City of Spreadsheets would freak out when the numbers change so much. I'd encourage them to take a step back and think if maybe there might be other ways to *play* beyond the ones they've tried. Pop those insprs, use the terrain the manage aggro, make the most of any teammates.
It *can* be done, it's not even that hard (no ueber player here, my 5 between lvls 30 and 40 and nothing higher), and I've seen plenty of others post similar accounts.
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Agreed, questioning tough hide though and think that might be slotted as well. Needs something to at least offset the defense debuff.
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You're right, forgot TH. I've got that, unslotted.
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Your resists
90 to S/L
38 to T/Ene/Ele
0 to Psi
That's with even level SOs. Hardly enough against any foe that uses mostly non-S/L.
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Hm at lvl 40: Rikti bosses with Psi, CoT with plenty of Fire/Energy, Devouring Earth toxins, Council energy weapons... Yep, lots of non-S/L. Again, all on Invincible, solo and teamed.
So "Hardly enough" is just not true. I can really understand how those who play City of Spreadsheets would freak out when the numbers change so much. I'd encourage them to take a step back and think if maybe there might be other ways to *play* beyond the ones they've tried. Pop those insprs, use the terrain the manage aggro, make the most of any teammates.
It *can* be done, it's not even that hard (no ueber player here, my 5 between lvls 30 and 40 and nothing higher), and I've seen plenty of others post similar accounts.
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Your insuferable, we tell you we play our character, we tell you we die, and you shout back "play the character and use the envron" have you ever cosider that your playstyle is radically different then others and that as w have stated numerous times I5 is forcing ups to change our PLAYSTYLE into a COKKIE CUTTER to survive.
and you respond with "change your playstyle to match mine, follw the mold, do not deviate."
*sigh* what part of "thats the problem" do you not understand
AE # 67087: Journey through the Looking Glass - Save the World
LLX VirtueVerse! - Check out my crazy Toons
This is the size of group that we have balanced AVs for, 6.
-Positron 06/07/06 07:27 PM
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Your insuferable, we tell you we play our character, we tell you we die, and you shout back "play the character and use the envron" have you ever cosider that your playstyle is radically different then others and that as w have stated numerous times I5 is forcing ups to change our PLAYSTYLE into a COKKIE CUTTER to survive.
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At no-point was I responding to anyone who said "I can't play Tanks the way I want anymore". I would never respond to such a post because I think that posting something like that is silly and useless. It would be like me posting "I hate corkflakes." Who cares? This is a community. That you are having a problem and have no desire to fix that problem is no business of anyone elses.
The poster I replied to said "Tanks can't be played anymore without a cookie cutter build." That is false and I replied with an example of a non-cookie cutter build that plays just fine.
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My response to Issue 5 was initially extremely negative.
Now that I5 has gone live, my view is tempered somewhat...
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Unfortunately I can't quote the post because it's incredibly long, but Jentia_Argool has posted one of the most brilliantly analytical summations of the problems behind I5 and its design philosophy that has ever been put up on these boards.
Excellent job Jentia, kudos to you.
It's unfortunate that the developers will take no notice of it.
"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of liberty."
"Nothing is unchangeable but the inherent and unalienable rights of man."
- Thomas Jefferson
Ok most of my points are that I play a MMOG as a solo experience that has the benefit of expanding content, evolving storyline and optional teaming. I research my characters and pick the most solo friendly version I can, or sometimes the most fun looking. Most of the time I dont look for teams, I dont want to team, I dont like teams. Several of the teams Ive been on are great fun, but since I only play about 2 hours at a time spending 1/2 of it waiting for a teammate to come off afk, having to stop to find a healer, tank, blaster, oh the first healer quit we need another one. Can I adapt to I5 solo? probably. But I remember (maybe wrongly) the devs say that everythings fine well only be making minor tweeks before I5.
Other people see it differently thats cool.
--edit removed the rest it was troll bait.
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My response to Issue 5 was initially extremely negative.
Now that I5 has gone live, my view is tempered somewhat.
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My vote for I5 The Update - 45% (Should never have been necessary).
My vote for City of Heroes The Game With I5 - 70%
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This is a very detailed and well-written summary. I agree with much of what you say and like you, I still find the game fun to play. I think the devs inadvertantly saved themselves by having so much "breathing room" with regard to player defenses.
The sweeping changes in Issue 5, as you said, should never have been needed because the developers, simply put, bungled the initial design of the game. Not with malice or because they are inept, more likely because this is simply Cryptic's first game. As such, I think it's pretty impressive just how much they got right. For a debut effort, it's pretty spiffy.
I also have come around to agreeing that all the numbers should be out in plain view. Having them easily available will not hurt the game, it will reduce confusion and allow people to truly understand how things work instead of having to guess. One might argue that the guesswork is part of the game but the fact that the devs have occasionally released detailed numbers (see geko's post on Vigilance, for example) shows that if this is policy, it is applied inconsistently at best.
1. I really like many of the changes in I5- I love the new zone, and I love the inclusion of missions that require a bit more finess than the previous ones.
2. As for the nerfs- thank you for keeping the game fun and interesting. I play an invulnerability tanker, and you know what? I'm not at all pissed. She isn't unplayable in the least. I understand that MMOs are a dynamic thing, and that flexibility is important. I also see these changes as a personal challenge to figure out how to be more successful within the current restrictions, if that makes any sense.
3. Thanks for continuing to bring us FREE updates, rather than making us pay for improved content, as other MMOs do.
My $.03.
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Hm at lvl 40: Rikti bosses with Psi, CoT with plenty of Fire/Energy, Devouring Earth toxins, Council energy weapons... Yep, lots of non-S/L. Again, all on Invincible, solo and teamed.
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Ritiki bosses all switch to S/L / Ene once you close. CoT it really depends but even many of them will switch to S/L in melee. DE is almost all S/L with only a few using Toxic, at range again in melee they go S/L. Council use some fire and sonic but the vast majority are S/L.
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So "Hardly enough" is just not true. I can really understand how those who play City of Spreadsheets would freak out when the numbers change so much. I'd encourage them to take a step back and think if maybe there might be other ways to *play* beyond the ones they've tried. Pop those insprs, use the terrain the manage aggro, make the most of any teammates.
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No actually unlike you I play a game called city of Heroes maybe you should try it.
I found a way to make the sound lopp less frequent but has anyone found a way to actually stop it
States,
I5 is a complete disaster to the game and when will it end?
TO WHAT POINT WILL THESE NERFS STOP!!!!!!!!!!! ISSUE 24?
IM SICK AND TIRED OF RESPECTING AFTER EVERY ISSUE.....
MY PROBLEMS,
CONTROLLERS
I want my pets back, It took you a full year to actually decide on removing pets, why didnt this happen in issue2? Not everyone takes hasten or slots more recharge time unto there pets..We all have diferent play styles. Fulcrum shift was my turning point power at level 38, I do not see it anymore, 
issue 1 &2 fS helped me through tough battles on my own...
Tankers- There are 2 types of players on coh FOR THIS AT
1) mission players TANKS
2) POWER LEVEL TANKS
I LOVE PL AND I WILL NOT STOP DOING IT? I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT UR MISSIONS AND TASKFORCE WHATVER CRAP U HAVE FOR THIS GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE IM NOT ASKING MUCH, I NEED MY COH FIX ON PL EVERY DAY..I COULD CARE LESS IF ITS REPATIVE OR BORING TO U BUT FOR ME ITS FUN
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States,
I5 is a complete disaster to the game and when will it end?
TO WHAT POINT WILL THESE NERFS STOP!!!!!!!!!!! ISSUE 24?
IM SICK AND TIRED OF RESPECTING AFTER EVERY ISSUE.....
MY PROBLEMS,
CONTROLLERS
I want my pets back, It took you a full year to actually decide on removing pets, why didnt this happen in issue2? Not everyone takes hasten or slots more recharge time unto there pets..We all have diferent play styles. Fulcrum shift was my turning point power at level 38, I do not see it anymore, issue 1 &2 fS helped me through tough battles on my own...
Tankers- There are 2 types of players on coh FOR THIS AT
1) mission players TANKS
2) POWER LEVEL TANKS
I LOVE PL AND I WILL NOT STOP DOING IT? I COULD CARE LESS ABOUT UR MISSIONS AND TASKFORCE WHATVER CRAP U HAVE FOR THIS GAME, PLAIN AND SIMPLE IM NOT ASKING MUCH, I NEED MY COH FIX ON PL EVERY DAY..I COULD CARE LESS IF ITS REPATIVE OR BORING TO U BUT FOR ME ITS FUN
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Quoted for sheer earbleeding pain.
*puts coke11 back into straight jacket, gently places him back in rubber room and locks the door*
Sorry bout that folks, sometimes they just find thier way out.
Later.
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Ritiki bosses all switch to S/L / Ene once you close. CoT it really depends but even many of them will switch to S/L in melee. DE is almost all S/L with only a few using Toxic, at range again in melee they go S/L. Council use some fire and sonic but the vast majority are S/L.
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Ok, you pick! I just got to level 40 last week, and am taking on Carnies and Preatorians. Again, at Invincible, teamed and solo. You tell me what group is too tough for a tanker and I'll do some missions and see if it's possible. At some point it becomes objectively clear that "Tankers are not viable anymore" is not a true statement!
Say "Tanking the way I like isn't viable anymore" and no-one could disprove you unless you made an honest effort at co-operation. But the original statement just isn't true.
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No actually unlike you I play a game called city of Heroes maybe you should try it.
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I'm all for some good trash talk but this just doesn't make sense. What exactly would you call the game I'm describing, where you have to use all of your ingenuity, powers and teamwork to overcome impossible odds?
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Ritiki bosses all switch to S/L / Ene once you close. CoT it really depends but even many of them will switch to S/L in melee. DE is almost all S/L with only a few using Toxic, at range again in melee they go S/L. Council use some fire and sonic but the vast majority are S/L.
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Ok, you pick! I just got to level 40 last week, and am taking on Carnies and Preatorians. Again, at Invincible, teamed and solo. You tell me what group is too tough for a tanker and I'll do some missions and see if it's possible. At some point it becomes objectively clear that "Tankers are not viable anymore" is not a true statement!
Say "Tanking the way I like isn't viable anymore" and no-one could disprove you unless you made an honest effort at co-operation. But the original statement just isn't true.
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No actually unlike you I play a game called city of Heroes maybe you should try it.
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I'm all for some good trash talk but this just doesn't make sense. What exactly would you call the game I'm describing, where you have to use all of your ingenuity, powers and teamwork to overcome impossible odds?
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Mother Mayhem would likely be the most difficult at the 45-50 range. Psychic Clock King between 40-45. A mission with mainly psychic attacks (and some psy/smash) would be the best test of the mad skills.
Now, one thing that the poster that SM replied to noted... that many switch to smash/lethal. Most do. It's a challenge to find those that don't. So... isn't it silly to base the argument on the exception to the rule rather than the rule (that you'll be mainly up against smash/Lethal)?
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that many switch to smash/lethal. Most do. It's a challenge to find those that don't. So... isn't it silly to base the argument on the exception to the rule rather than the rule (that you'll be mainly up against smash/Lethal)?
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almost as silly as being vulnerable in effect to 3 kinds of damage. and btw how many characters in pvp use s/l . tankers lost a viable power set in the arena and in the future base raids. how many pro-base raiding villains are going to think "hmm, lemme roll a guy that does the kind of damage tankers resist the most" . if i wanted to roll a pvp-able character it wouldnt be a s/l damage dependant one.
Ok I waited a while before posting my view of I5. States before you start patting you and your team on the back about a good job look around.
In the last few weeks infinity use to be yellow a lot of the times when I logged on now it is hardly ever yellow. Freedom was always yellow no matter when I logged on; now it is random and seems to be more infrequent as the week goes by.
That means either people subscrption have run out or they are not playing; that is your 2 big server populations if they are taking a hit then that means your smaller servers have taken a hit.
So States as bad as I4 was I can say that the trend seems to show that I5 was a complete and utter faluire. So no one at Cryptic deserves a pat on their back; sorry the little yellow dot says you guys failed not me.
I guess you better hope COV is all that and then some to bring people back and bring in fresh blood but the problem is with most the current coh population will problay be jumping ship to cov who will be left for them to fight in coh.
Pinnacle
Langar Thurs-Katana/SR 50; Hejtmane-DM/DA 50
Rogue Spear-Spines/DA 50; Hypnosis-Ill/Rad 50
Sir Thomas Theroux-DM/SR 50; Melted Copper-Fire/Shield 50
Byzantine Warrior-DB/ELA 50;Blade Tempo-50 DB/EA
Personally I like the changes in I5. being a lv 50 INV/SS tank on guardian. I've noticed that invincibility only effected my ability to hit badies. I didn't even know it had a defense on it. So that change really didn't do anything to my playing style.
Tankers are the greatest in my book
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that many switch to smash/lethal. Most do. It's a challenge to find those that don't. So... isn't it silly to base the argument on the exception to the rule rather than the rule (that you'll be mainly up against smash/Lethal)?
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almost as silly as being vulnerable in effect to 3 kinds of damage. and btw how many characters in pvp use s/l . tankers lost a viable power set in the arena and in the future base raids. how many pro-base raiding villains are going to think "hmm, lemme roll a guy that does the kind of damage tankers resist the most" . if i wanted to roll a pvp-able character it wouldnt be a s/l damage dependant one.
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Not to argue with ur POV on the current nerfs but you should see my lvl 50 Ice axe tanker fight. Not PVP cause i gave that up( controllers and scrapper are unbeatable in that compareed to my ice defense) but i mean PVE. Granted people send tells saying im brave to use a Ice/ axe post I5 but hey i have to tell you the damage gets through and very well i might add. Sl has its merits imo but i do see what ur saying cause id die for a lvl 50 ice energy tanker cause that extra bit of dmg always helps
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To make a viable Inv tanker we now have to take Invincibilty and 6 slot it. Take Dull Pain and make it Perma. Slot up only Temp Inv and Unyielding and then 6 slots all of aour attacks.
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I don't know who "we" is, but it definitely isn't all players. My Inv has invincibility unslotted and only uses it against large groups, he doesn't even have dull pain, and has RPD and RE slotted up along with TI and Unyielding.
He has no problem soloing on Invincible (except for the expected snails pace in dealing damage) or tanking for large groups.