Archery's greatest problem is animation and recharge times. At the very least it needs a 'rapid shot' which would be about double the speed of snap shot, even if it is half the damage. I have waited since the first hints of CoH to play an archer. And here we are, a month after it was finally released, and I fill less than thrilled with playing the character. It doesnt help that I had to be a defender to pick both sets.
Accuracy is a mere lackey in a game where damage is king.
accuracy isn't an issure with any other set either. The bouns does nt do anything to significantly seperate it.
It takes more than just accuracy to compensate for a lack of damage. Blasters need to kill quickly or they die quickly.
50 Fire/Dev | 50 AR/Dev | 50 Ninjas/FF MM | 50 Bots/Dark | 50 Kin/Rad |
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The problem, Geko, is that we rarely fight even level mobs with no defense. We're fighting +1, +2 or higher, and that accuracy just ain't gonna cut it. We still have to slot an Accuracy SO or take an Accuracy boosting power. Give us a base SO worth of accuracy boost, and I'll call it worth something. You can choose whether to use that slot to be ultra accurate, or get your damage up on par with the others. As it is, that really isn't a choice in most people's minds.
Bbesides, whenever we have an accuracy booster like a Tactics defender, or an enemy defense debuffer, our 'bonus' may as well not exist. Not true for the others.
Compare this to the slows of ice, the DoT of Fire, or even the KB of energy, and the minor accuracy bonus just doesn't stack up for a set that is already dealing with having a very bad damage type.
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The problem, Geko, is that we rarely fight even level mobs with no defense. We're fighting +1, +2 or higher, and that accuracy just ain't gonna cut it. We still have to slot an Accuracy SO or take an Accuracy boosting power. Give us a base SO worth of accuracy boost, and I'll call it worth something. You can choose whether to use that slot to be ultra accurate, or get your damage up on par with the others. As it is, that really isn't a choice in most people's minds.
Bbesides, whenever we have an accuracy booster like a Tactics defender, or an enemy defense debuffer, our 'bonus' may as well not exist. Not true for the others.
Compare this to the slows of ice, the DoT of Fire, or even the KB of energy, and the minor accuracy bonus just doesn't stack up for a set that is already dealing with having a very bad damage type.
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I'm pretty much in perfect agreement on with this post. And, the best part? When I read it, in my head, it sounds as though the author of this post was using a level, even voice.
Well written.
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game.
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Which is nice; but would be a lot more useful if the game's random number generator wasn't broken. Fix that and the "down time" at the end of the snipe animation and the set wouldn't be too bad.
If you were to also make the "real" game consistent with the arena (% of damage non-resistable, perhaps justified by finding weakness/gaps in armor) it might even almost (almost) be the equal of the other blaster sets.
Sorry if anyone doesnt agree with me, but.......
I have a bow/bow Defender, and yes, he is under powered, but now that I am at lvl 33 (Yes, the hard way), I am loving him. I mean the Primary as a Archer has awesome DeBuff's, and Emp arrow now slotted is awesome. Give it time, as once you get in the higher levels, I think they ROCK!!!
I'll be 50 by Thanksgiving!
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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Any blaster with Targetting Drone or Aim+Buildup juggling > Archery. WOOOOOOO!1!!!
this proves it, devs hates blasters
who lives in a pineapple under the sea?
Has anyone here ever tried Rain of Arrows in Archery? I figured with so many flaws, perhaps the final power in the set would redeem the rest. My findings:
Rain of Arrows seems to have a random number of 1-3 ticks, however the ticks seem VERY inconsistent. Against even level mobs standing side by side, one will take 1 hit, while the others take 2 or 3. Slotting Accuracy directly in the power doesn't seem to change this. The strange thing is, in the combat log no damage numbers are displayed. It's almost as if this power is being treated like a locational pet. That is the damage happens, but it's not YOUR damage.
All in all, there's some severe problems with this power, at the bare minimum it doesn't stand even close to the other level 32 blaster powers.
The only problem I've had with my blaster so far is the "aftercast delay" after using ranged shot, it's significant, I can't follow up my snipe with another attack for a second or two ...
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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Im sorry to say but who cares about such a small acc bonus, a single acc inspiration will bring you up to par with the others.
What needs to be addressed is the slowness of the archery set, I have a lvl 50 arch/dev blaster and in comparision to other blasters it is very very slow when pulling the bow and then releasing the shot, by the time I get one shot off other blasters can fire off 2-3 shots. While most of the time I try to hit my target it is already dead by the time my shot gets there.
I would be more happy if the speed of the archery set was increased rather then the acc.
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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It is good to see that you are starting to look at the threads dealing with archery and TA. Now that you know what our opinions are after playing the sets, it would be nice to know if we are going to see changes or if we are just talking up a storm. There are other things to talk about if there are no changes comeing to archery or Trick Archery.
Is the accuracy bonus supposed to compensate for the slow activation times? You are aware that is what kills most blasters right? Sitting there activating a power while the mobs come into melee range, do you guys play blasters solo? That's great, we get accuracy, I just hope that this isn't what you consider a balancing factor of any kind. This may be great for a defender but for a blaster the bonus accuracy is chump change when it comes to a secondary effect. Actually, as a defender I find that I still have to slot accuracy anyway on teams since I never know if the team I am on is fighting +3 mobs or if they are fighting even level mobs.
So, your great accuracy boost in the Archery set is nothing to laud in my opinion and it for damned sure does not even begin to address some of the problems mentioned with archery.
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I can calculate SR's mitigation numbers a million ways to Sunday, but those are "just numbers" - I am overlooking "the big picture" and "how the set actually plays" which is what is really important.
So the archers come out and say the set doesn't play right. Geko's response: precise accuracy numbers for the set.
I'm not sure whether to laugh or cry...
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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After this was posted, you all responded with replies that were (for a very large part) articulate and intelligent and extremely on topic and well informed. However, I think that what you missed was that geko's post was a very polite way of saying "don't waste your time talking about archery". It seems that no matter how clear we are about end use or animation times or low damage for archery OR recharge times and ineffective powers for trick arrow, we've been told, just now, that these sets are the way they will be. But, at least, he was polite in his delievery of the bad news.
Sorry Mr Geko but I think you really missed the point of posters about Archery and their concerns.
#1 End costs on Snap Shot and Aimed shot on Archery are the same as Power Bolt and Power Blast on my energy blaster. However, it does far LESS damage for the same END. That means I have to spend MORE END to take out the same mob because i do LESS damage. Tell me, how is this NOT a problem?????
#2. Animation times are too slow. This negates much of the advantage Archery has in re-charge times.
#3. Accuracy Bonus is small potatoes to damage. There are a lot of ways to increase accuracy but the tradeoff of a "small" acc bonus does not negate the slow animation times, high end costs and low damage.
#4. Archery does not stack up well to other sets in a team buff enviroment. Powers that improve recharge times give less benefit to archery with fast recharge times. Archery with low damage gets less benefit from damage buffs. Other sets benefit far more from buffs.
Sorry, you can read the numbers in an Excel spreadsheet all you want but it is absolutely meaningless. Real gameplay TESTING and EXPERIENCE say your wrong! If you want to stick your head in the sand about this, fine. However, it doesn't really foster a good dev/player relationship. All your doing in a sense is saying your right and not even care that something DOES in fact have serious issues.
Frankly I haven't been too pleased lately about how the dev/player relationship is going. Sorry if I sound bitter or mean, but hey, I play this game, I post what I see in these forums and when I see a problem I inform you about it. I think a lot of players are getting very annoyed about the direction too. I know you guys are hard at work on CoV, but that isn't an excuse to ignore issues. I'm willing to cut you guys some slack if your honest, but lately, I haven't seen much honesty.
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. ... So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers.
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Which, in essence, means next to nothing specifically for that reason: you can duplicate the Archery advantage by putting one extra accuracy DO in your attack powers.
Which, I will point out, nobody does, and I've seen the numbers to show why: once you get to where you can use SO's, the optimum damage per minute happens with only one accuracy SO in your attack powers. A second accuracy enhancement is wasted.
But let's assume that, for some reason, somebody really, really wanted that extra accuracy, or that the mostly-non-existant damage boost from using one extra damage SO really mattered. That still leaves Archery as the only Blaster set that has no default status effect. Energy has knockback, Ice has slow, Electricity has endurance drain, Sonic has damage resistance debuff, and most Assault Rifle attacks have either knockback or defense debuff. Even fire, which I think is unplayable these days, has so much damage over time that it ends up doing about 50% more damage than Archery, so I guess in essence the Fire status effect is "more damage." What does Archery get? Bupkiss.
And then, to add insult to injury, Archery has longer combat animations than all of the others, especially if you use any of your secondary powers and have to draw the bow all over again. But worst of all, Archery also sucks down more endurance per fight than the others do, too. Which means that while other blasters are still blasting away, the Archer runs out of endurance halfway through any fight involving anything more than 3 even-con minions.
Sorry, you're in deep denial of reality if you don't think that Archery is under-powered and in even deeper denial of reality if you don't think that Archery's endurance usage is way, way out of whack. (I can't help but point out, by the way, that I pointed both of these things out the first day that issue 5 was on the test server, and was not believed.)
Oh, and one more thing I forgot to mention. By your own admission, any other blaster powerset can duplicate Archery's advantage by slotting a single enhancement. So if I'm an Ice blaster, I can get the same accuracy boost that Archery gets with a single enhancement to each of my powers. But if I'm an Archer, what enhancements do I slot to add slow to all of my attacks?
What ???? A stupid bow is more accurate than my Assault Rifle ??? Man , that doesnt make any sense !!!!
/em throws rifle in garbage bin and run to store to buy bow and arrows
I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
Voltaire
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
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And when you put 1 Acc SO in your Archery attacks, any benefit gained from that "free DO" vanishes.
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
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And when you put 1 Acc SO in your Archery attacks, any benefit gained from that "free DO" vanishes.
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Not really.
SOs take effect _after_ things like defense and to-hit debuffs come into play, but base accuracy kicks in before that.
So against something that's trying to dodge, or when you've been hit with a -tohit, archery will hit more often than any other blaster set...
Still, if there's a fundamental damage/end and end/time imbalance that's not much consolation.
--GF
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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All this means is that you will hit the thing that's already dead because the rest of the team has killed it during your animation.
Celtic Twang TA/A def Freedom
It's true. This game is NOT rocket surgery. - BillZBubba
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So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
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Looks like you were right! Archery is indeed the weakest blaster primary. But you'll neeeever miss!
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I truly wish that were true but I still constantly and continuously miss with archery. I have a Trick/Archery Defender and so far my max number of misses in a row have been 7 but Im still counting. Now if that is 87% accuracy then I am truly missing something.
@Sorak
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. ... So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers.
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Which, in essence, means next to nothing specifically for that reason: you can duplicate the Archery advantage by putting one extra accuracy DO in your attack powers.
Which, I will point out, nobody does, and I've seen the numbers to show why: once you get to where you can use SO's, the optimum damage per minute happens with only one accuracy SO in your attack powers. A second accuracy enhancement is wasted.
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All of you who keep arguing that "SOs make this bonus worthless" are missing a very simple point...
Once SOs are nerfed you'll be happy for that free DO's worth of ACC 
\you *know* its coming, right?
Umber's Hall of Heroes & Villains
I think Archery, both the Blaster primary and the Trick Arrow sets, need some work.
But I simply won't discount the benefits of increased accuracy like some people here are. I have a blaster. I had him equipped with the typical 1 accuracy/5 damage enhancers. He played great. Until I was on a large team with some members a level or two above me! Going against a +2 or +3 lieutenant or boss meant that even with an SO accuracy enhancement, he would miss more than just occasionally. I'm currently experimenting putting two accuracy enhancements in some of my powers. I've found that with the increased accuracy, even when I'm up against a +3 boss, I hit very reliably.
Also, I'm amazed that people discount the extra accuracy when people consistently complain that "Defiance is no good because it only gives a damage increase, and what we really need when we're in danger is an accuracy increase!"
Seriously people, hitting something reliably is VERY important. Don't discount the extra accuracy. An SO enhancement is really nice, but as the Defiance threads point out, increasing accuracy beyond that is still very important!
That said, I still think the bow and arrow powers need some work.
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Archery has the highest Accuracy in the game. All powers have an accuracy of 1.16. Ranged shot, the sniper attack, has an accuracy of 1.39.
So that like getting 1 free ACC DO in all Archery powers. Against a target with no defense, thats a 87% chance ToHit.
In comparison, most powers in the game have an accuracy of 1. Most sniper attacks have an accuracy of 1.2. Assault Rifle has an ACC of 1.05 (1.25 for thier sniper attack).
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It is good to see that you are starting to look at the threads dealing with archery and TA. Now that you know what our opinions are after playing the sets, it would be nice to know if we are going to see changes or if we are just talking up a storm. There are other things to talk about if there are no changes comeing to archery or Trick Archery.
Is the accuracy bonus supposed to compensate for the slow activation times? You are aware that is what kills most blasters right? Sitting there activating a power while the mobs come into melee range, do you guys play blasters solo? That's great, we get accuracy, I just hope that this isn't what you consider a balancing factor of any kind. This may be great for a defender but for a blaster the bonus accuracy is chump change when it comes to a secondary effect. Actually, as a defender I find that I still have to slot accuracy anyway on teams since I never know if the team I am on is fighting +3 mobs or if they are fighting even level mobs.
So, your great accuracy boost in the Archery set is nothing to laud in my opinion and it for damned sure does not even begin to address some of the problems mentioned with archery.
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They admitted after they nerfed TA & A on the training room that it was gimped and they'd watch to see how it preformed on live.
We told them plenty of times in the huge thread on TA&A what the issues were and how people were forced to take hasten to compensate for stupid long recharges on an only ok set, but they went ahead and kept the way too long recharges. We even came up with creative ways to fix the issues, which were ignored.
What makes you think they'll do much about TA & A now?
My question to the Devs is why did you let a sub par set go live when you knew it was sub par.
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