[ QUOTE ]
Ok, during burn. The enemies run, then come back, then run, then come back. Read your little story. First you tried to turn it off. Then ran to get fresh air. Then came back to extinguish it. And actually. You stood outside of the burn patch, did you not? Which means, the enemies should step out of burn range, to extinguish the patch. Because honestly, would you STAND in fire?
[/ QUOTE ]
Would I? No. But I can't fly, set myself on fire without taking damage, generate a patch of ice below me without a large investment of money and time. While we're at it if a guy in spandex jumped off the top of a building and walked/leaped toward me I'd run away, if I wasn't just staring at him going "Whaa". Now add in him throwing chunks of ice, bolts of energy, or wielding a large battle ax and I would most likely either be running away screaming like a little girl, or curled up in a ball crying. I however am not a minion for a criminal group in a world where those kinds of things are common place.
Lets assume I am. I have just received the insight needed not to stand in a patch of fire, and to instead run away. What else should I be smart enough to do?
1. Stay out of melee range against any melee attacker.
If I got a guy attacking me with a melee weapon, and I have a gun, Since all mobs have ranged attacks, I'm going to get out of melee range so he can't hit me and shoot him repeatedly.
2. Spread out against any aoe or cone wielding attacker.
The first time the guy I'm attacking pulls out a rifle and shoots me and the six guys I'm with, we split up and circle him. Maybe even take turns running up and smacking him with a melee weapon of our own. If he turns to fire at the guy that just stabbed him; he's not looking at me coming up with my bat. Cool!
3. Get behind cover from ranged attacks.
If I got a guy shooting at me, I'll hide behind some crates. He comes around the corner and I hit him with my bat, and then run away again.
4. I wouldn't listen to name calling.
I got a tank in front of me calling me all these names and I have a blaster behind me shooting me full of holes. I'm going to do some nasty things to the blaster and then use his weapons/body to explain to the tank why he shouldn't be so rude.
Honestly if people are smart enough to run out of a burn patch explain why they stay put for
Blazing Aura
Icicles
Mud Pots
Lightning Field
Radiant Aura
Radiation Infection
Choking Cloud
Snow Storm
Steamy Mist
Quills
Death Shroud
Inferno
Nova
Thunderous Blast
Blizzard
Any AOE Melee Attack
Any attack that does more then 25% damage to them
Anytime a Lt goes down why do the minions stick around?
A boss
An Elite Boss
An AV
If I got a guy holding a bat, and I just took down his boss that could throw lightning from his hands and fly, why is he still swinging the bat like it makes any difference? The fear effect is non tankish, not fun, an not in keeping with the brain damage you've given the mobs in relation to the rest of the world.
I stress again give me 1 good reason that someone would stay in hand to hand with a guy that only has a sword when he and all of his friends have guns? If you can't come up with a good reason that doesn't involve, well it would make all scrapers useless then take the fear away from burn.
YOU GUYS ARE WASTING YOUR TIME...THE DEVS ARE NOT LISTENING TO THE PLAYERS THAT PUT TIME AND EFFORT INTO THIS GAME......THEY ARE HOPING TO ATTRACT THE "CASUAL GAMER".....ALL WHILE CASTING THE MIN/MAXERS ASIDE....THE DO NOT WANT OUR INPUT...THE JUST WANT US TO SHUT UP AND BE ASSIMILATED.
All I want is a Dev to confirm whether the Fear affect that is currently on Live is a bug or not. I have seen some posts say it is a bug. I would like official confirmation.
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-
Dunno if I've posted here or not yet, couldn't find a post from me, but here it goes...
Logged on to Test server last night with Geratron (50 fire/fire). I have:
Burn: 6 dmg
Greater Fire Sword, Combustion: 1 ACC, 4 dmg, 1 End Reduc;
Fire Sword Circle: 1 Acc 3 Dmg 2 End Reduc;
Firball: 4 dmg
Blazing Aura: 3 Taunt, 2 End Reduc, 1 dmg
Taunt: 3 Taunt
Fiery Embrace: 6 recharge
Build-up: 3 recharge
Fire Shield, Plasma Shield: 6 dmg resist
Consume: 5 recharges, 1 end reduc
Healing Flames: 3 recharges, 3 heals
Perma-hasten
Stamina 6-slotted
I do not use Tough, Weave, etc.
All other slottings are default
All enhancments are 50++ SO's
What I tried to fight (Numbers are ballpark figures in terms of how many):
50 Carnie's (1 Master Illusionist, 1 Minion)
50 Possessed Scientists Lts (about 5 or 6)
48 Rikti (group of all minions, somewhere around 7)
49 Rikti (all minions, again, 6 or 7)
48 DE (mixed minions and lts, somewhere around 10)
49 DE (mixed minions and lts again, again somewhere around 10)
The Carnies killed me before I had a chance to blink or use inspirations. Although nothing that has been changed should have affected perfomance, I know on live I at least have a chance to heal or say "Oh crap."
The Possessed Scientists were a tough fight, had to use healing flames and some respites.
The rest I was okay.
When I used burn, they did stay in the patch long enough to take a bit of damage. They would then run out of range of the patch and resort to ranged attacks. A few when run back towards me, then change their minds and run back out. I did have a chance to test in a team to see if I would keep the aggro or not.
I also did not take the time to kill the entire mob each time. After cycling through attacks a few times there were still enemies up and about. On live they would have been defeated after one cycle, maybe the start of a second. Again, these were minions at a lower level than I. And also on live Burn is not the primary offensive weapon: usually Fiery Embrace + Build Up + Fire Sword Circle does enough damage that if it does not defeat them the start of a burn patch or Combustion will do the trick.
Has tanker damage been decreased any, or is there any other factor I do not know about?
I can understand that some may think it's broken if I can defeat reds or purples solo. But it was taking me time and effort to despatch blues and greens. 
Heroes of Justice: Geratron - 50 FA/FM Tanker
Villains of Infinity: Psychotron - 50 FM/FA Brute, Operative Gerald - 50 Arachnos Widow
Rogues of Exalted: Peanut Butter Fairy - 50 FM/FA Brute
Because honestly, would you STAND in fire?
[/ QUOTE ]
Would I? No. But I can't fly, set myself on fire without taking damage, generate a patch of ice below me without a large investment of money and time. While we're at it if a guy in spandex jumped off the top of a building and walked/leaped toward me I'd run away, if I wasn't just staring at him going "Whaa". Now add in him throwing chunks of ice, bolts of energy, or wielding a large battle ax and I would most likely either be running away screaming like a little girl, or curled up in a ball crying. I however am not a minion for a criminal group in a world where those kinds of things are common place.
Lets assume I am. I have just received the insight needed not to stand in a patch of fire, and to instead run away. What else should I be smart enough to do....
I stress again give me 1 good reason that someone would stay in hand to hand with a guy that only has a sword when he and all of his friends have guns? If you can't come up with a good reason that doesn't involve, well it would make all scrapers useless then take the fear away from burn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Buji.. great great great post.. please go up a few posts if you haven't read this one; it's not only funny and sarcastic.. but oh so true. If the devs don't read this post and say HMPF, he's got a point, what the heck are we doing... I'll be surprised. Burn is fine the without added Fear.. minimize the damage to make it less effective as a single mob killer.. but don't add Fear!
[ QUOTE ]
Because honestly, would you STAND in fire?
[/ QUOTE ]
Would I? No. But I can't fly, set myself on fire without taking damage, generate a patch of ice below me without a large investment of money and time. While we're at it if a guy in spandex jumped off the top of a building and walked/leaped toward me I'd run away, if I wasn't just staring at him going "Whaa". Now add in him throwing chunks of ice, bolts of energy, or wielding a large battle ax and I would most likely either be running away screaming like a little girl, or curled up in a ball crying. I however am not a minion for a criminal group in a world where those kinds of things are common place.
Lets assume I am. I have just received the insight needed not to stand in a patch of fire, and to instead run away. What else should I be smart enough to do....
I stress again give me 1 good reason that someone would stay in hand to hand with a guy that only has a sword when he and all of his friends have guns? If you can't come up with a good reason that doesn't involve, well it would make all scrapers useless then take the fear away from burn.
[/ QUOTE ]
Buji.. great great great post.. please go up a few posts if you haven't read this one; it's not only funny and sarcastic.. but oh so true. If the devs don't read this post and say HMPF, he's got a point, what the heck are we doing... I'll be surprised. Burn is fine the without added Fear.. minimize the damage to make it less effective as a single mob killer.. but don't add Fear!
[/ QUOTE ]
Damn that's funny. Good post. 
Originally the point of the Fire tanker set was that the tanker sacrificed some defence/resistance overall to get a boost in damage. "The" power of the set is/was Burn. I have played the changes on the test server and although yes you can still make Burn do some damage the fear factor makes it a death penalty for higher dps toons that group with said fire tanker. They ignore the tank and blast the other members of the team. Unfortunately this is the exact opposite of what a tank is "supposed" to do in a group. The whole point of having a tank <of any spec> is to be the meat shield. How they get around to doing this varies from set to set.
Since Burn needs to be changed instead of leaving it in the current format change it entirely.
Make it like a fire bomb that sticks to the targets with dot damage.. heck make the mobs run amok on fire - thats ok as long as all the damage is being credited to the Fire tanker as agro so the rest of the team doesnt get hosed.
Make it like a heavy damage fire aura - end heavy and BBQs everything around the tank but drop the Dot component and fear <like a Fire sword circle>
Make it use end like Repel or Whirlwind where every mob in range gets toasted but also uses up end.
There are many things that the power could be made into besides a Fire tankers Immob. protection/group ganking power.
I don't have a problem with the reduced damage part. Frankly burn did way too much damage.
I do dislike the increase in recharge times. It is just another reason to take hasten. Now were being forced to because the devs are rebalancing a power based on people taking hasten.
So now one of the few characters I have that DOESN'T have hasten may very well take it. Thank you statesman! My fire tank always wanted to join the hasten club. 
Rather than rebalance powers around hasten, fix hasten! Fix the problem not the symptom!
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
First off I would like to thank all the posters to this thread as there are some excellent solutions, suggestions and ideas on how to fix Burn without turning it into a worthless power and punishing the builds that include/require it their character concept/design. That said I would like to add
I would have to agree with elfgirl. I have a level 33 Fire/Ice tank and frankly there are not a lot of options available to us attack wise. Ice is a well acknowledged weak power set and there really are no equivalent powers to Brun damage or effect wise. So, reducing Burn to its current state on the test server makes playing our tanks very unenjoyable and quite boring.
I tried my Fire/Ice Tank on the test server and this is what I experienced. At level 33 I hit even con mobs and mobs up to 2 levels higher, what I found was that mobs (white) slipped and stayed in the Ice Patch while I applied burn. Damage was 7 point a tick (meh, okay, I wont complain about the damage). Lieutenants and any yellow and above where bounced out of the patch (confirming Warjaxs statement) and when not knocked down or back (I thought Ice Patch was supposed to do knockdown, not knock back) they had no trouble fleeing the Ice Patch altogether. So between knocking them out of the Ice Patch, fleeing from the Ice/Burn patch and the reduced damage my tank was left standing wondering what to do next. Yes, I did use taunt, and yes, I have Blazing Aura slotted with taunt instead of damage. Add to this the now insanely long recharge time (even with Hasten fully slotted) (btw, Hat_Guys numbers on recharge seem pretty consistent with mine) and my tank becomes BORING to play.
My main suggestion at this point would be to keep the damage the way it is on the test server now, change the recharge time so one Burn patch can be applied after another (but not have them stack, like the Controllers pets in I5) and get rid of the Fear. I liked Oloneyes suggestions for alterations of the power as well as many others.
Once again I would like to thank the Tank community for all your thoughts and contributions on this matter maybe we can somehow preserve Burn as a useful power.
Tanker Tuesdays: Meet in King's Row by IP Gate 6pm PT9pm ET.
1st Tuesday on Champion, 2nd Tuesday on Justice
3rd Tuesdays (Odd months) Freedom, (Even months) Virtue, 4th Tuesday, Tour, Server TBA
Brutal Thrashing Thursdays: Justice (ask Papa Slade when),meet in RWZ 6pm PT9pm ET.
I found burn with it's fear component to be quite nice as a door blocker when we needed to fall back from a strong group of orange and reds. It completely fills one of those small doors in the sewers preventing continued chasing. Now that I think about it, I wonder if placing it in the enterance to the hall of vators will prevent aggroed mobs from following you down/up...
I'll keep it but only default slot it with recharge or accuracy or end reduction...wish it did the original damage but I'll try to make it work.
[ QUOTE ]
Wanted to explain the reasons for changing Burn...
It became apparent that Burn was the trump power...with it, a Tanker needed to do nothing else. He could lay down a Burn patch and Taunt foes in and out of it. The damage was so great that the Burn patch itself would do the defeating; the Tanker only needed to hit Taunt.
The question has come up - "what's the point of Burn now?" Well, it still offers Immobilization defense (we're actually going to increase that duration). And Burn does do a lot of damage. Taunt alone might not bring mobs into Burn continually, but stunning, holding, immobilizing mobs in Burn is just plain devastating.
[/ QUOTE ]
Great, just give me the ability to pick ice as my secondary and I'll be all set. With the sweeping changes that are comming down, why won't you consider allowing respecs to pick different primary/secondary sets?
Dont think with ice path burn will work
i have a fire/ice and with the ice path in I5 they still can run away. So with the stupid other powers in Ice secondary i have no choices, The dmg res of the fire is a crap now the attack too.
GJ devs
Hi all.
Like most of you, I play a fire tank - well 6 fire tanks at the moment. I've been playing since beta and really enjoy the fire tank's versatility. In the beginning, we all knew that Burn was overpowered (30 second duration, 10y range and over 20 pts of damage per tick as I recall) but then came the nerf bat - over and over and over again. Now Statesman says he doesn't want Burn to be the set defining power for fire tanks. Seems like it's a bit late for that. A fire tank without burn is basically just a low damage broadsword scrapper with lots of health and a bad toggle addiction.
The thing that always made the fire tank feel different was that they had to use strategy to put use the burn patches effectively. That was all well and good until the herding builds started appearing. Don't get me wrong - I think herding is fun - it's just also not very well balanced or fun for anyone but the person doing it. Did we really think the Devs were going to ignore all the PL'ing, resetting unfinished missions, etc? Fun or not, there should be more to beating the game (getting to 50) than standing in a dumpster with 4-6 warwolf spawns.
I guess my point here is that I love fire tanks but I hate all the FOTM PL'ing.
I also hate the way that burn currently works in I5. In my opinion, the 30%-ish damage reduction alone was almost enough of a nerf, especially when you consider how the fear effect is currently working on the mobs. Seems like I read that the recharge increase was supposed to be around 30% too but last time I tested it was more like 130%. Even with hasten and 4 Recharge SOs in burn, I can't keep one patch out all the time. That's just stupid. It should be just like the controller pets - with proper slotting I should be able to have one patch out all the time.
The sad thing about these changes is that they are happening because of the hardcore min-max'ers but they really hurt the casual players and those playing fire tanks for RP reasons the most. After I5, The hardcore PL'ing guys will just move on to the next FOTM uber-build and leave the rest of us here with the wreckage of our favorite AT. So what's the solution? IMHO it's not the endless series of band-aid nerfs we've received so far. We have to correctly identify the problem - then we have to eliminate it.
The problem with is not burn - it's that burn can currently be used to PL.
The PL'ing guys are only playing fire tanks because they can herd and herding is one of the fastest ways to level. Fire tanks can only herd because the mobs stack and they have both the tools needed to exploit stacking - a taunt and an AE attack. The obvious solution is to stop the mobs from stacking. This has been suggested many times and the Devs have said that it just can't be done by changing the AI because of the bandwidth & processor time required. Ok - I can accept that answer.
Anybody ever remember the expression 'there's more than one way to skin a cat'?
I decided there must be some other way to do this - a way to change the fire tank so that it maintains the flavor that it has now in I4, but is not overpowered and does not permit herding or PL'ing.
So for what it's worth, here's how I think the Devs should fix fire tanks:
1.1 - Fix Temperature Protection
This power is totally useless and everybody knows it - it's so useless that it's not even worth having when you're fighting the fire based AV, Inferno.
Make Temperature Protection worth taking by adding a passive knockback protection to it _AND_ moving the immobilize protection from Burn to it. This means that fire tanks do not _have_ to take the Super-Jump power pool to get Acrobatics _AND_ that low-mid level fire tanks without Burn have some form of immobilize protection.
1.2 - Fix Taunt
The problem with taunt is that it can be used to stack mobs. This has to be fixed or it can be used to herd, even if that requires the tanker to team with someone like an AE blaster.
Make taunt work so that it affects 15 targets (like all the other AE attacks) _BUT_ only the Melee mobs will come to the tanker. Ranged mobs should attack the tanker from wherever they are standing (similar to being rooted) until the taunt expires or they are pulled off the tank by something else. This means that taunt can still be used to make mobs stop attacking teammates (and stop running ranged mobs) but it can't be used to stack all the mobs in one or more spawns for AE attacks (like you need to when herding).
1.3 - Fix Burn (as it currently is on the Training Room)
The current I5 version of Burn is so weak that most players will drop it and the fire tank will lose much of it's unique playstyle. If the fire-tanks wanted to play broadsword scrappers or axe tanks, they would have. Burn is an important and well liked part of the fire-tank experience that should be preserved in some useful but not overpowered form.
Make Burn worth keeping by allowing one patch to be out at all times (with 6 recharge SOs) and allow taunt to pull fleeing melee mobs back into the patch _BUT_ leave the damage low (same as on test now) and move the immobilize protection to Temperature Protection. Either the player will have Burn on all the time for very low damage or they have it on-and-off for Ok but not great damage. This will let it work on teams (and solo with other attacks) but keep it from being useful as a herding tool because the damage is just too low and/or intermittent and only melee mobs can be taunted back into the patch.
1.4 - Fix Rise of the Phoenix
This power is actually worse than totally useless, it's a waste of a slot and guaranteed way to get more debt. First you have to be defeated to use it meaning you WILL already have debt. Second, If you use it without support, the mobs will probably defeat you again (more debt) because your toggles will all be down when you rez. Third, you will probably NOT have support because you are the least squishy AT and tend to die LAST. Fifth, if you do still have support, it will probably be a defender that hasn't agro'd the mobs and can rez you. Sixth, lastly and worst of all, the most useful part of this final power from our primary set (the rez) can be accomplished for free by going to the hospital or with a common inspiration.
Make Rise of the Phoenix worth taking by changing it to an offensive burn-like power WITH A CAVEAT. It should have the same duration and recharge as Burn (One patch at all times with 6 recharge SOs) _BUT_ it should do the same damage that Burn does in I4 _AND_ it should release the player from holds & immobilizations like the I4 version does. The caveat is that each time it is activated, it has a good chance to cause knockback (not knockdown) to any mob near the player. In terms of pure DPS, you could try to herd with this power _BUT_ the knockback effect will scatter the mobs. This means that they must be taunted back into the patch - and since taunt would only pull the melee mobs, the tank will still have to move out of the patch to the taunted ranged mobs. So it really can't be used to herd effectively at all. This power combined with Burn could deal good damage to mobs but they would still deal signifigantly less damage than the I4 Burn does because only one of each can be out at once and they would require a lot more strategy to use because of the knockback and non-closing taunted ranged mobs.
Well - that's the best I could come up with. If you like this idea, you might want to say so. If we say nothing, we'll get what's on the Training Room now...
Thanks for reading,
- SC -
'Burn' by the way I read its description lent more to be used for mobility. 'Burn'ing away webs, shadows, stone whatever. That it did damage was a bonus and icing in my eyes. An F tank might be more offensive it is not really the primary damage dealer. pardon me for not being bothered by the changes.
This will likely get removed, since a red name hasn't posted, but if other people think it's worthwhile and quote it, it might hang around long enough to be noticed.
[ QUOTE ]
The PL'ing guys are only playing fire tanks because they can herd and herding is one of the fastest ways to level. Fire tanks can only herd because the mobs stack and they have both the tools needed to exploit stacking - a taunt and an AE attack. The obvious solution is to stop the mobs from stacking. This has been suggested many times and the Devs have said that it just can't be done by changing the AI because of the bandwidth & processor time required. Ok - I can accept that answer.
[/ QUOTE ]
Thinking about the mob stacking problem, it occurs to me that what causes stacking in the first place is a mob running up toward you, finding that it can't get as close to you as it 'wants' to be, so it tries to jump over the obstacle, thereby utilizing the vertical-collision bug to get closer by slipping into another mob. It seems to me that the check to see whether a mob can move closer to its intended target is already in the code, so adding one more check -- "is the obstacle another mob?" would have a relatively low overhead. If this check evaluates TRUE, then flip the mob in question from melee to ranged attack mode -- which makes it stand there and shoot, rather than trying to get closer to punch/slice/whatever. It won't solve all the stacking issues, but it should take care of a lot of them. And the change in mob behaviour will at least look more intelligent, with the mobs around the edge shooting in rather than trying to crowd in and beat on their target.
"But in our enthusiasm, we could not resist a radical overhaul of the system, in which all of its major weaknesses have been exposed, analyzed, and replaced with new weaknesses."
-- Bruce Leverett, Register Allocation in Optimizing Compilers
I think these are excellent suggestions, very well said and thought out. Personally, I'd love to see more posts like this one, I get so tired of all the whining when changes are made, it's about time someone actually did more than complain and actually offered solutions. A player has taken the time and effort to propose an alternative.....I think a response by both the readers of this forum and the Devs is the least that you could do.
Can anyone verify this for me? I was playing my fire tanker last night when in the middle of the mission, my burn started recharging extremely sloooooow and the damage output was much smaller. The_EMpaler OCR Team Lead, states the following...[ QUOTE ]
Hello Heroes!
Free Expansion Issue #5 ("Forest of Dread") content is now available for download on the Training Room Test Server. While the Issue #5 content is already active at this time, we will still be testing the functionality and content of this patcher prior to any Live Server release. This content will not impact any gameplay elements of City of Heroes at this time, as the content is already active on the Training room.
The download will begin after you exit your play session rather than prior to entering the game, and is purely optional you can cancel at anytime.
[/ QUOTE ]
Sounds like although I5 is currently available, it isn't turned on yet. I'm not convinced. I had a hard time finishing the mission without using Hasten.
Can anyone confirm this?
Yes, The Pre-load went active some time last night. Its about 69 megs
"The only thing to crave is Immortality, and Death is the last rube to cheat."
They trained the Rikti to drop Fire on people, but they won't let them write (Censored) on their spaceships because it is obscene!
I like this post, even though I don't agree with a few of his suggestions.
I play my Fire/Fire tank once a week. I've been playing with a regular team since December, and the team and my tank is at level 28. I've been playing CoH for a year, and have only four characters in the 27-33 level range. They're my highest lvl characters. I don't have any level 50 characters.
I work to maximize my characters abilities, but I play to have fun with friends, not to powerlevel. This should be obvious from the above. However, I don't care that there are other people who want to sit down and powerlevel in 80 hours. Sometimes, I'll take characters that I don't team regularly and jump in with a PL'er. It's nice to have that option, whether for ridding myself of debt or for working through a particularly boring stretch of missions. Or just for the freakin' action to see 60 mobs on a dude.
The Burn changes are for Balance? What balance? PvE? See above. PvP? I honestly don't care about PvP, and any changes to balance PvP at the expense of PvE are a giant loss to this game. I don't play for PvP, and literally NO ONE I KNOW who plays regularly - or who used to play regularly but have since cancelled due to nerfs and boredom - plays PvP CoH.
Go ahead and build CoV for balance and PvP, but keep your chocolate out of my peanut butter. I'll pre-order it, hopefully beta it, play it and if it's nerfed like you 've been nerfing CoH I'll cancel. If you can make PvP as fun as PvE is, I'm all for it, otherwise I'm not interested.
I love burn the way it is on I4. I hate the way it works for I5. It's the one decent damage attack I can take in that viciously irksome lvl 6-20 (inclusive) range - 8 powers "available" and I *have* to take 5 pool powers, 2 for travel and 3 for stamina. And because it's a level 18 power, with stamina at 20 I can't really slot it until 25 or so.
My suggestions, reduce the damage. Limit the recharge time to 2 or 3 so ENH to make it up all the time (not freakin' 6). Keep the fear so that if two are up at the same time they run away. Or allow taunt enhancements on it and change the name to Hypno-burn.
If you want it to be a controller power, i.e. fear, change it to "oh my god, it's like I stared into the sun for too long" and make it disorient the enemy. Fear is just going to get my team killed. Thanks for killing my teammates, devs.
Better yet, leave Burn like it is in i4, and swap it's position with Rise of the Phoenix. I mean, if I'm going to respec it out of my build, I'd rather swap it out for a (lame) power I'm not going to take anyway, and get it again at 32.
Mostro - Mr Methane - Beast Lightning - Akrasia - Contraindicator - BattleBomb - Norsewind - Poundy Hammer - Fatron - Mysteriesque - Chiisai Tora - Goth Claw - Mach Barrier - Bearly Human - Prototype Alpha - Crabbly - Puffy Morpheus
Burn has been reduced to a shadow of it's former self. Now for some numbers to back up my claim (all on test).
Using Hasten. Burn (6 slot), Taunt all with white SOs. Went into a mission with and found 5 plus +1 Crey (Infiltrators, i.e. no resists). Just using burn and taunt and pulling mobs around a corner it too 1 minute 56 seconds to defeat them.
2nd Test using only Whirling Hands (6 slotted), Hasten, Taunt. Reset the mission and found the same 5 guys. It took 1 minute 30 seconds to defeat them. Whirling hands is a mediocre PBAoE but it was more effective (time wise) than Burn currently is. This makes Burn with it's scatter almost worthless.
3rd test Added Build Up to the Whirling Hands test, < 45 seconds to defeat the 5 Infiltrators.
With these results I can not justify having Burn in my Fire /EM tanks build. Burn used to be the major attack for the character and now it can't even compete with an attack I didn't take on the live servers (as it didn't fit in the build due to slots, power picks, and mediocre damage).
I would rather have a Fire/Fire tank now as Fire has better AoEs than Energy but I choose Fire/EM for the mix of AoE (Burn) and single target damage but now I no longer have effective AoE damage. But ther is no Respec for an AT so now I am stuck with a character I never planned for.
Changing powers to such an extent as to change the whole focus of a character is a horrible design change. These sort of changes will cause a drop in player morale and therefore cause a faster drop rate of the player base over time.
On top of all of this the players shouldn't have to spend time performing tests to show problems with the changes. I would rather spend time playing the game not testing wild balance changes to the game.
Every time a Burn Tanker joins my team on the live servers, it's like someone flipped the boring switch to 'ON.' They run in, hit their macro ("Herding, wait for me to say when"), don't get hurt, and kill everything.
It doesn't matter what archetype I am playing. It doesn't matter what anyone else on the team is playing. The Burn Tanker is a one man show. Anything the rest of the team does aside from buff him just screws up his herding and slows down the XP gravy train.
I don't give a rat's butt about the herding part since any Tanker can do that. Here's the part that is ridiculous: by the time the Tanker says "ready!", everything but bosses is already dead. In the words of my Fire Blaster friend last night, "this is f***ing boring now."
Thank you for nerfing Burn!
A lot of you seem to think this nerf occured just to prevent powerleveling...
1). The best powerlevelers were not fire tanks. They were Invuln/Fire tanks or Invuln/x tanks coupled with a x/Devices blaster.
2). Post 18 (as if it were hard to even get to 18) was a joke for Fire tankers. This is coming from someone who played one to 50. Burn was the most endurance efficient, quick damaging attack I've ever seen... and that was when you used it on one target, let alone its AoE effect, let alone herding multiple groups for it. The fact is, why play any other toon to get to 50 when you can do it with 1/4 of the time with no risk? My Fire tank was faster at killing bad guys than my blaster, safer, easier to level, etc. etc. and that's with a "gimped secondary set" like War Mace.
This nerf was also a balance for PvE in regards to not just other tanks, and not just powerleveling, but all ATs as a whole. Should ATs be balanced? Well, should my Fire tanker be outdamaging, outkilling, outleveling, and outsurviving all of my other toons? 
Fire tanks were too easy to level quickly with absolutely no risk involved unless you were taking on too big of fish.
Burn needed to be changed, but perhaps not this drastically-- Burn should have its uses, but it also cannot be the powerhouse it was before this issue.
It occured to me after thinking over fire tanks in general and how they are "too" powerful that fire has some pretty clear disavantages compared to the other sets
Number one
Blazing Aura is only taunt based aura and is not auto hit. Unlike Mud Pots, Chilling Embrace and Invincibility.
Number two
Healing Flames is the only one of four that does not boost hit points. Dull Pain, Hoarfrost and Earth's Embrace all add 40%.
Number three
No defense is the set whatsoever.
Number four
One of the main issues I see people having is no resistance to knockback and immobolization protect built into toggles. Wet Ice, Rooted and Unyielding all have these.
Number five
Rise of the Phoenix, in order to use the highest power you must first die in order to do so.
And now number six
Burn the only major advantage held by fire tanks is now gone. If some of these other things were changed I would be fine with Burn in its current state because I just won't take it and rely on combat jumping even more then I do now.
Yes we have consume and fiery embrace so basicly two buildup, neither of which add to Burns damage, but the endurance cost alone of the powers required for fiery aura. Blazing Aura, Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Combat Jumping, Acrobatics, Tough and Weave are endurance hogs when combined so we need that extra boost of endurance. Sure some don't take Tough and Weave but in order to max out smashing and lethal and have at least some defense they are needed.
We need to take 3 powers in leaping pool, 3 in fitness and 3 in fighting. Then Fire Shield, Plasma Shield, Blazing Aura, Healing Flames and Consume. Total of 14 powers and between 35-45 slots depending on if you slot Blazing Aura and Consume. Then most tanks take conserve power so another 5 there and to keep that up and other powers quicker 5 in hasten so total of 45-55 now. So having Burn 6 slotted for damage would make that 50-60 out of 67 total slots and having 14 powers required, not including hasten, conserve, taunt, burn or the first power of melee set for that matter so 19 with those added out of 24 powers with 50-60 slots used up. Not all that much room for extra attack power.
[ QUOTE ]
Every time a Burn Tanker joins my team on the live servers, it's like someone flipped the boring switch to 'ON.' They run in, hit their macro ("Herding, wait for me to say when"), don't get hurt, and kill everything.
It doesn't matter what archetype I am playing. It doesn't matter what anyone else on the team is playing. The Burn Tanker is a one man show. Anything the rest of the team does aside from buff him just screws up his herding and slows down the XP gravy train.
I don't give a rat's butt about the herding part since any Tanker can do that. Here's the part that is ridiculous: by the time the Tanker says "ready!", everything but bosses is already dead. In the words of my Fire Blaster friend last night, "this is f***ing boring now."
Thank you for nerfing Burn!
[/ QUOTE ]
Sorry you have had that much trouble with fire tanks on a team. [not sure which server you are on... but if you are on Virtue... look up Stone Volcano... I don't play like that....]
It is the same old problem... everyone should not be hurt for what some of the people do. Never been fair and never will...
[I know ... the world is not fair...so deal... right...?]
One thing to remember... you could always ask him to stop or leave. It was your choice to stay in that team. If I'm with a team -with any of the alts I play- and it is either boring or just not fun, I make my excuses and leave. Problem has now been solved.
Being one that plays a fire tank-almost lvl 40- I agree that burn is a bit too powerful... but extent of the changes to burn really do make it a useless power.
The only change [Devs - if you read this please take note] that really needs to be done to burn is decrease the amount of damage it does. This can be done by decreasing the clicks per second, decrease the base damage or both. The recharge is fine at 10-15s. The fear aspect should be taken out or added to every power in the game. [yes
I just said that
]
Thanks
Mike...
Let the flaming begin...
These changes to Burn make it worthless to use anymore IMO. I love to Burn bad guys. For me, it was the reason to make a Fire tanker. I guess for some it was too powerful, but I enjoyed it immensely.