OK, let me cover some of the BS first:
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Here's the part that is ridiculous: by the time the Tanker says "ready!", everything but bosses is already dead.
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Well, either you're fighting against -10 mobs or he's saying "ready" a while after using Burn. Burn doesn't kill even mobs that quickly much less +1 mobs. +2 mobs and up don't go down with 1 Burn patch. Actually, I assume you're talking about a Fire/Fire Tanker here. Ask him not to herd or find another team. You won't have to worry about this in I5 anyway with just the AoE restrictions alone.
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The fact is, why play any other toon to get to 50 when you can do it with 1/4 of the time with no risk?
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Maybe because the game isn't a race to 50. And, "no risk"? No risk my [censored]. There's plenty of risk. You don't have mezz protection, psi protection, you don't have protection from Sappers, no KB protection, and Fire Tanks have the worst defense of all tanks as of I4.
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My Fire tank was faster at killing bad guys than my blaster, safer, easier to level, etc. etc. and that's with a "gimped secondary set" like War Mace.
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Woah, a Tanker is safer than a Blaster? Imagine that! Blasters are much, much quicker to level than Fire Tanks are until about the early 20s, then it slows down until Fire Tanks pass them. I don't know what you're crying about, my Fire Blaster leveled just as quickly to 30-something as my Fire Tanker did. Maybe not as safely (well, they did back in the uber Smoke Grenade days), but it still flew through levels. What about Controllers? Once most hit 32 and get their pets they can level quickly with little risk.
Now, onto the devs:
What the hell are you people thinking? You've (I think it was Statesman) stated that you didn't add the fear effect to Burn because in went against what a Tanker was suppose to do: hold aggro. So, why would you put it in now and contradict yourself? Why make yet another Fire primary power useless?
Look at all the usless powers in the set already:
Termperature Protection - It's not needed.
Fiery Embrace - if you don't have Fire as a secondary or Pyre Mastery, then it's a complete waste.
Rise of the Phoenix - It's the final power in the set and it's craptacular! You have to friggin' die to use it...... Compare it the other level 32 Tank powers and it's a joke. It's not much better than using an awaken instead.
Now, you want to make Burn useless as well. Great, you want to have about half of the Fire primary to be basically useless. Why? Is that your great design idea for the game? "Hey guys, let's make half the powers in the game useless!"
This will be my only post on a I5 topic, and since I have made 4 fire tankers of different types and love all of them, I felt that this topic on burn was the most appropriate location for this post.
Preface:
My first large scale online game was Star Wars Galaxies and I left it for similar reasons after playing for 1 ½ years - such massive late in the game changes that it created large-scale exodus. COH is going though the same type of pains of originally creating a great game to only lose it by required Dev changes to make the future content and plans come into play (i.e. in Star Wars, the method and purpose of only have a few Jedi's to everyone having a Jedi, or crippling the economy with changes, etc).
Back to COH:
I have been though all of the patches/I2 - I4 and always felt that I could re-adjust the characters I have made, to make a difference. I have characters on Infinity and Virtue and have (2) 50 level characters many types of chars from 12 43 level and in 3 different large SG's. I actually bought a second account and got my wife involved and found that it was a
great thing to enjoy this first game that we could enjoy together. I started in Infinity and restarted in Virtue with my wife and it was a great experience for us to work together and struggle though it all including sharing the influence and battles to get our present main's (she has a level 43 reg/bs scrapper and my level 50 fire/axe tanker). We made a rule to
never PL or except a PL to enjoy the game's missions and to do all the badge missions we could. It was a great thing to find a new SG in virtue and create great friendships that come from hero's working together as a team ..
So all in all it was a great run and found that we could solo if we wanted to, or Duo or teamed with this SG.. it didn't matter.. the main point was that it has been enjoyable for all.
So I'm all for the Dev's vision, and where it's going but the execution is a way off. I haven't been one for much posting, but I do read a lot of the forums for build ideas and when new Issues are coming out. Its amazing how many people have posted their testings and produced many suggestions to help come up with alternate methods of making concessions. I have never seen so much hate, disgust, and downright flaming posts and also the opposite type of posts for this I5 update. I think the reason for this is quite evident that it wrecks most builds (general casual players and min/max'ers) to the point of non-hero feeling.
Yes it is a game, and Yes it is some of people's life put into and fine tuning to make these characters. So when a drastic Issue like this comes out to rectify all of the Dev's past mistakes for not forecasting COV integration and PVP issues, many people get the call of the wild and make post hast out the door to the next game.
Mind you, I have bought my accounts for 6 more months to wait out the changes and see the total effect of the I5 havoc. I believe that the Dev's have a better picture of what they want the game to become than I do and hope that they can make it a better transition than present plan. It's funny how they have to make the hard call and drop in the Issue at some point to only see that maybe they made a mistake and refit Burn and others skills and defenses that have been trashed. My Real big beef is that too many good players have already been giving up way before this issue is out and I figure that many more after it goes live..usually the ones that don't read the forums. I like the game too much for it to die this way. Maybe the COV angle will reinterest the ones leaving and at least make them great bad antiheros.
Back to Burn ...
After trying my characters on the Test Server, I have found that burn is total useless. Not even worth putting one slot in ... It has been relegated to a non power (by the way the jewel of the fire tanker av). The Dev's are royally punishing anyone that has made such a character and it seems to be that it will go live that way. They have looked at this power and have changed it at almost every Issue and several patches as well. We all know and acknowledge that it is too powerful. But to make it useless is a total sin. I dare say that many players dont play a fire/* tanker nicely in a group or over herd/PL, but to kill a character type so fast and destroy it so completely, is ridiculous. Please don't ask for more data, since you have enough to sink a ship.
It's a fact Burn - its dead Jim especially solo.
Anyway I hope (I really hate the word hope since it does nothing to make it different) that the Dev's take into consideration this post and not become so insulated that they don't realize that they may be driving away customers is not good for business, and my selfish reason driving away players that I love playing with. Burn is not the sole reason for people leaving, as there are too many reasons in I5 for this mass exodus, and they may not be able to stop this once this starts. Heck, its a game .. but one heck of a great game... one that I always wished I could play and have. There are times that I actually feel that I'm am a hero in Coh and the illusion is complete. Guess thats proof of a great and wonderful game.
Last thought:
No matter what, I'm here for 6 more months. One would figure that they should be able to get it right or at least reveal what the total vision is to be by then. I have the utmost respect and admiration of Statesman(Jack) and the all the Developers. To make this vision and game possible was a great thing of beauty. I 'hope' that Issue 5 doesn't jump the shark!
Thanks for reading
This will probably get deleted, but I'll address some of this anyways 
[ QUOTE ]
OK, let me cover some of the BS first:
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The fact is, why play any other toon to get to 50 when you can do it with 1/4 of the time with no risk?
[/ QUOTE ]
Maybe because the game isn't a race to 50. And, "no risk"? No risk my [censored]. There's plenty of risk. You don't have mezz protection, psi protection, you don't have protection from Sappers, no KB protection, and Fire Tanks have the worst defense of all tanks as of I4.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yeah, the game isn't a race to 50. But Fire tankers are the most popular tankers for a reason, and I'm betting it's for a reason other than their character obscuring shields 
. That's why there's the most of them in higher levels compared to Ice, Stone, and even Invuln. That's why most kheldian's first 50's were Fire tankers. Take a look at people's siggy's for their level 50's on the boards, count what the most popular primaries are for each AT... hell, count just what the most popular primary is overall, I'm betting it starts with an 'F' . The fact of the matter is people will always find the best game "exploit" and take as much advantage of it as they can-- in Issue 4, this was Fire tankers.
Furthermore, Fire tankers made out extremely well in terms of tankability for I5-- they can still cap their S/L resistance with Tough, have better overall tankability than Ice throughout the game, outclass Stone until Stone gets Granite, have better Fire, Energy, and Negative Energy resists than Invuln, etc. etc.
No mez protection? What? All mezzing effects other than knockback are covered within powers in the primary set, and Leaping can fill holes for mobile immobilization/knockback protection. Giving up a power pool is a small price to pay for the power of Fire tankers (don't tell me you'd rather have that power pool for role-playing reasons to grab something like Medicine or Teleportation... if you played to RP, you wouldn't be so vehement about the Burn change anyways, because even with these changes, Fire would still be the most damaging primary and fulfill its flavor for the powerset).
So there's risk for the tail-end game when you can minimize these risks with power pools, the EPPs, and TEAM MATES? So the first 40 levels were a breeze and now some groups of enemies require you to hold a Sapper with your epic powers or god forbid use some inspirations before running in and burning everything to the ground like you're used to or instead of having the other 7 players on a team sit in a corner waiting for a herd to come back and make them actively participate? Ouch. That sucks.
Risk to playing a Fire tanker? Don't flatter yourself. Tanks are arguably the safest toons to play in the game, and the problems you've presented are non-existant if you make any attempt to solve them with the solutions I've listed. I've had no issues tanking Psi AVs for my usual team, and the majority of them are damage dealers. It's not like I have an Emp constantly healing me or an Illusion controller taking the alpha with PA or anything.
[ QUOTE ]
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My Fire tank was faster at killing bad guys than my blaster, safer, easier to level, etc. etc. and that's with a "gimped secondary set" like War Mace.
[/ QUOTE ]
Woah, a Tanker is safer than a Blaster? Imagine that! Blasters are much, much quicker to level than Fire Tanks are until about the early 20s, then it slows down until Fire Tanks pass them. I don't know what you're crying about, my Fire Blaster leveled just as quickly to 30-something as my Fire Tanker did. Maybe not as safely (well, they did back in the uber Smoke Grenade days), but it still flew through levels. What about Controllers? Once most hit 32 and get their pets they can level quickly with little risk.
[/ QUOTE ]
You're missing the point to this, or more likely, choosing to miss it. My fire tanker outkills my blaster IN ADDITION to being safer and easier to level. That is a problem when blasters are supposed to be the kill all machines. Think Fire tankers dominating all of the kiosk kill charts is just a coincidence?
Yeah, the gap starts to close after Fire Tankers get Burn, at only level 18. Post 30's, when mezzing becomes prominent and enemies completely outrange Blasters, Fire tankers take over in terms of kill rate. Shouldn't this be a problem since Blasters are supposed to be #1 in terms of damage and Scrappers #2? And the 30-50 game is atleast half, if not more than half, of the total journey to 50... 1-30 flies by.
As for Controllers, 1). There are two that are capable of dealing heavy damage in I4, Fire and Illusion. That's 2/6 sets. Ice, Gravity, Earth, and Mind Controllers leveling as quickly as Fire tankers or Blasters without heavy team support post 32? Not happening.
2). Controllers are supposed to be the weakest and strongest AT in the game.. safer, faster leveling 32 is definitely in line and flavor of the AT after having to painfully grind for those low levels, which do -not- fly by for them as fast as a Blaster or Fire tanker.
3). Controllers are getting hit too because pets were deemed overpowered.
I'm not crying about anything here, actually. You'll notice that I don't appreciate the Burn nerf either, but atleast portions of it were necessary-- Fire tankers were easier to play than any other character, and were disproportionate to any other AT combination in terms of ease to play, leveling speed, and risk involved. Burn needed to be toned down a notch, just not this severely 
I just hope the devs take the fear effect off of Burn, and I will be perfectly happy with the I5 changes on Fire tankers.
Last time I checked, my fire tank had no ability to hold or immobolize. Stunning was never a guarantee. Sure, I could team with a controller, but what for? No way to manage the aggro with the fear factor, at least, not very well. And why share xp with a controller? I get much more xp just as fast solo. I don't want to be having to taunt every 8 seconds for some squishy who doesn't enjoy working with a tank anyway.
Leae well enough alone.
"Most people that have no idea what they are doing have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
@Ukase
Speaking of the Devs... I would love to hear from one of them. [even if it is just a 'we hear you and are looking at it] I'm sure they have their hands full, but throw us a bone please...
Of course it would be nice if one of them compiled a response to all the 'helpful' posts we've had so far.
thanks
Mike
This'll probably get deleted, but here goes:
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No mez protection? What? All mezzing effects other than knockback are covered within powers in the primary set,
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Wow, you get minimal protection from mezzes.
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and Leaping can fill holes for mobile immobilization/knockback protection.
[/ QUOTE ]
The minute protection from KB is in no way 'filling a hole'.
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So the first 40 levels were a breeze
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Uh, no. Fire Tanks aren't all the great until they hit the early 20s.
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Tanks are arguably the safest toons to play in the game, and the problems you've presented are non-existant if you make any attempt to solve them with the solutions I've listed.
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Great, I could make a general statement like that for all of the ATs as well. 'Use your inspirations, powers and teammates correctly, and there's little risk......'
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I've had no issues tanking Psi AVs for my usual team, and the majority of them are damage dealers. It's not like I have an Emp constantly healing me or an Illusion controller taking the alpha with PA or anything.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, I'm sure you tanked CWK, Psychic Babbage, Giovanni and Vanessa all by yourself with no help.... I've fought those 4 many times, and it's not mostly a 'non-issue'. I've heard Fire Tanks say "I'm not taking the alpha" from the CWK plenty of times.
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My fire tanker outkills my blaster IN ADDITION to being safer and easier to level.
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Well, you're comparing it to a friggin' Elec/Elec Blaster, so no wonder... But, my first Blaster was Elec/Ice and it was quite safe. Not all that fast, but hey, Elec is at the bottom.
[qoute]Think Fire tankers dominating all of the kiosk kill charts is just a coincidence?
[/ QUOTE ]
Even if that's right, then that's just because of the PL'ers. When I do missions on teams, I don't go and herd up the enitre floor, I do the group-to-group thing unless the majority want to herd. And, when I do either, my teammates aren't superfluous; Burn doesn't drop mobs in half a second like some people seem to think.
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Shouldn't this be a problem since Blasters are supposed to be #1 in terms of damage and Scrappers #2?
[/ QUOTE ]
Well, I never said I was against lowering the damage on Burn, just take out the stupid fear effect that really hurts it. I don't see the need to have 4 nerfs on Burn which make it damn near useless. Isn't the AoE limit, the lower damage, and longer recharge rate enough of a nerf? The ridiculous and highly inconsistent reasoning for that fear effect isn't helping them either.
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As for Controllers, 1). There are two that are capable of dealing heavy damage in I4, Fire and Illusion. That's 2/6 sets. Ice, Gravity, Earth, and Mind Controllers leveling as quickly as Fire tankers or Blasters without heavy team support post 32? Not happening.
[/ QUOTE ]
Yet, you're referring to only 1 of the Tanker primary sets, Fire. That's 1/4 sets. Try comparing Ice, Gravity, Earth and Mind Controllers to Ice and Stone Tankers. Stone gets Granite at 32, do you think that helps their kill rate?
[ QUOTE ]
2). Controllers are supposed to be the weakest and strongest AT in the game.. safer, faster leveling 32 is definitely in line and flavor of the AT after having to painfully grind for those low levels, which do -not- fly by for them as fast as a Blaster or Fire tanker.
[/ QUOTE ]
The first 20-some levels are a grind for a Fire Tank as well. Whereas, Blasters can fly through those levels.
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Every time a Burn Tanker joins my team on the live servers, it's like someone flipped the boring switch to 'ON.' They run in, hit their macro ("Herding, wait for me to say when"), don't get hurt, and kill everything.
It doesn't matter what archetype I am playing. It doesn't matter what anyone else on the team is playing. The Burn Tanker is a one man show. Anything the rest of the team does aside from buff him just screws up his herding and slows down the XP gravy train.
I don't give a rat's butt about the herding part since any Tanker can do that. Here's the part that is ridiculous: by the time the Tanker says "ready!", everything but bosses is already dead. In the words of my Fire Blaster friend last night, "this is f***ing boring now."
Thank you for nerfing Burn!
[/ QUOTE ]
I've experienced this too. I blasted around with a great team for a while; then we had a burn tanker join and we headed into Eden. The tank immediately started rounding up enemies, making sure that one of the controllers was flying overhead and dropping heals. A couple of minutes later, he got everybody in one spot and burned them to the ground. I couldn't even work out what I was supposed to do, other than try and push stragglers back into the fray.
Having said that, I realise that far from every fire tanker behaves this way. The ones that do though... man! Whatever floats your boat I guess, but I can't pretend to understand it. Maybe desperate to play a Kheldy?
The burn change strikes me as being somewhat typical of I5, i.e. it was needed (much like Regen or controller pets) but the solution currently offered seems very heavy-handed and over the top. Surely there are better ways to fix the problems than just playing with the ol' spreadsheet numbers?
What most of you fail to realize is that Burn was affected by the AOE limits as well making it unable to do these things anymore. That a a little bit of damage reduction should have been enough. The fear and recharge went too far. Did it need toned down, yes not arguing that one bit. But like most of the changes they had the right idea but in implementing them they went too far. Instead of going with just one idea they went with all they came up with it seems.
I agree 100% that Burn was overpowered. I can totally see reducing the damage and the increased recharge. However, putting the Fear back into the power was overkill. Why did you make Burn a power that can only be used effectively in groups now. No other Archetype has a power that is hindered like this, why punish Fire Tankers. Aren't their glaring weakness enough. I was always under the impression the reason we were more "Scrapper Like" in damage was because of the lack of resistances. The only way to make a Fire Tanker on par with the other tankers is to throw in several power pool abilities. This already greatly reduces the number of attacks a Fire Tanker can pick up if we want to be able to withstand the punishment other Tankers can. I would rather see the damage reduced even more than to be stuck with a power that can't even be used solo. Also, to say that Burn is the trump power, the only power a Fire Tanker needed, is only ever true in the end game. I know that until I was able to get my defenses on par with other Tankers, I would never even think of using Burn alone. It was always a supplemental power. My defenses were never good enough to stand there and burn a group of enemies to death. After all, until the higher levels, I only had two defensive abilities. Its bad enough that too many people out there are making cookie cutter versions of the same archetypes, its even wors that we are being forced now to do so.
While I suspect I will be dropping Burn after I5 comes live and replacing it with an AoE, I don't think it will have a huge impact on me. I'm Fire/Fire though, so I have more AoE options than other secondaries. I'd hate to have to try and re-develop a non-AoE secondary to make up for the loss of Burn.
I mostly group and didn't use it much when grouped in comparison to the rest of my attacks that create aggro, rather than lose it. I went for aggro, rather than damage, since scrappers, Kheldians, and blasters managed that side of it better than I did, even with Burn. An extra AoE to help hold aggro with the AoE limit and Taunt limit changes will actually improve my grouping abilities in I5.
I will miss Burn for those occasions when I went soloing, as the Burn/Taunt combination let me defeat +4 enemies easily enough and +5 with patience (higher than that just took too long), since accuracy plays such a small role with those powers. But as a general rule, +2/+3 enemies were much better experience anyways when I solo'd, as those groups dropped far more quickly. Switching Burn with another AoE will slow things down slightly for the +2/+3 groups, and I'll need to watch my endurance more carefully, but with Consume, shouldn't be a huge problem there.
As Fire/Fire, my reaction is mostly to shrug. A few minor changes to play-style and a power-switch and I'll be able to adjust, even if I lose a bit of over-all efficiency. However, I have a great deal of sympathy for Fire/* that don't have the AoE options. They'll be using more endurance, taking longer to defeat enemies (with even more damage due to changes in Def and Res), and having a harder time with aggro thanks to the taunt and AoE limits. Scaling the Fear changes back to I4 seems a reasonable change for those tanks, given the recharge increase and damage reduction.
I can't really say anything that hasn't been said better already.
Is Burn, as it stands on live, overpowered? Yes.
Is a reduction in damage reasonable? Yes.
Is the fear effect ridiculous when compared to other 'psychologically-intimidating' powers and concepts in the game like flying blasters, green radiation, and huge frickin' swords? Yes.
So I guess I've only got one question:
Any chance of a Dev response on the Dev Response thread? It's been a few weeks since the last obtuse drive-by Statesman posting.
The whole "beef" here is that Burn/Taunt no longer makes a tank a Blaster, Tank, and Controller all in one.
People aren't whining about the damage because with the Fear effect gone it's the same game play, the same abilities, just a little slower and you might need to be more wary of your defenses.
Did it ever occur to anyone that the point is to gain the abilities of a Blaster, Tank, and Controller... you might NEED a Blaster, Tank, and Controller? Fire tanks are unique in that they're more like a Blaster/Tank thanks to small DoT's and the Burn skill. Without the Controller ability to keep them IN Burn though, there's significant complaining.
Can a Controller Immob a group of Mobs IN a Burn? Hmm. Now they don't run, you still do respectable damage, and you don't have to chase them down....
Anyone stating that "Chasing them down is a waste of time." needs to realize that that's the cost of playing solo. If you have a blaster, let them mop up runners, if you have a Controller, let them keep them locked in place (with the Hold nerfs Immob's are going to be their primary ability....) or let Scrappers down them on way out, even a Defender can pick off Runners, no longer will your Fire tank be both Judge, Jury, and Execution.
Share the love guys, I was getting sick of mid-high level Fire tanks in teams telling the "rest of us" to go get "that mob" while he handles this groups. Somehow that always consisted of "Burn"ing them to death.
Nice post dark...
[ QUOTE ]
The whole "beef" here is that Burn/Taunt no longer makes a tank a Blaster, Tank, and Controller all in one.
[/ QUOTE ]
I'm sorry I have to respond to this one...
The 'beef' [at least for me] is not what you are saying... The beef is that I as a tank should be able to manage agro- not lock someone down in a hold or what-not but yell and have them focus on me. That way the other less defensive toons can stay alive longer. Yes as a fire tank I throw in burn, but I also throw in my other attacks. [although those are few-since I focused on resistance and defense]
I have always agreed that burn is/was too powerful but with the fear aspect, it is too dangerous to use within a team. [of course this is mho]
About a tank being a blaster and controller [as well as being a tank] - come on... I've teamed with plenty of blasters that can take out things a lot faster than my burn. Heck I teamed with a friend of mine last night who was sk to a +1 to me and we were going against +2 and +3s. He was taking out people a lot faster than I was. So you can't just make a blanket statement like that.
Also, once again, if someone is acting in a way that is bothering you [in a team] ask them to stop, kick them off, or find another team. No one makes you stay in a team that you don't like.
anyway... it doesn't matter what we say... it seems everything on test is going live [at least I haven't heard anything different yet]
let the flaming begin
Mike
How about makin burn a toggle that imobalizes you, and make it cost a lil end per mob being burned, this will stop the whole hearding thing if that was the plan.....
So I finally got to try the nerfs to Burn. Having been totally prepared by the accounts of others, I found it more funny than annoying when the mobs ran away from me with a literal case of the Hotfoot.
I definitely agree that Burn was overpowered. One application of Burn does the same thing that two Raged Foot Stomps do! That would seriously put Burn in the High to Superior category of damage, and for 7 endurance points?
But I have to agree that the triple whammy is too much. Burn alone now is more of a high Minor attack than a Moderate. Any of the three nerfs should be removed-- they should restore the Recharge, since some of us DO use Burn for the Immobilization resistance.
But while they're doing that, consider one way to use Burn: as a finishing attack. It still seems feasible to finish mobs with a fully-slotted Burn when they're down to a fourth of their life. Mobs have to complete their animations before they can escape, so a bit of timing can help you make the most out of this power. The fact that some mobs will run the long way to escape Burn will score you some extra damage as well. And finally, fully-slotted Blazing Aura is a good complement to Burn. A combination of these two powers actually allowed me to bring mobs to half life after one application of Burn (which seems fair, considering that Burn is a Moderate power and I'm using two powers to achieve this damage).
Also, people have mentioned that the devs say that the fear effect is as designed, but do they also how severe the effect is? Maybe they're thinking that the mobs run from the patch eventually and don't realize that the mobs run from the patch immediately.
This pretty much wrecks my Fire/Stone tanker since I was just using Stone Fists, Burn was how I was doing damage.
I don't have Stone Mallets as it didn't fit my concept for the build.
I took Fault as I thought it would be like Ice Patch, but it's not, since it only lasts for one attack. With Burn working the way it does Live Fault not doing much is not a problem. But on Test it's a wasted power.
Is there a chance that Fault could either do damage or have a duration so that it would knockdown targets for a few seconds vs. the way works now?
Fault currently does no damage.
The fear is what going to make my fire/fire tank into a hybrid. I'm dropping blazing aura, taunt, and burn. Picking up combustion and fireball. Taking a primary power that I can use when in group with an AoE immbolizer or holder is too situational. I cannot invest an 18+ choice and six slots in such a power as a tank.
Fire/Fire tanks have none burn AoE options, Fire/Ice tanks business as usual. I worry about other Fire/Non AoE tanks what options are there for them?
CoH
Radion-50 rad/rad
Dyre Knight-50 ill/storm
Shadow-Fall-50 kat/reg
Iceomatrix-50 ice/nrg tank
Goth-Chylde-50 dark/dark scpr
Stealth Man-50 fire/dev blas
CoV
Old Dirty Blaster-50 Rad/Rad
Vampiro-50 SS/Nrg
Repo Man-50 EM/Nin
Under Boss-50 Thugs/Dark
Violet Burn-50 Fire/Psi
(54 other lvl 50 toons)
If the devs have such problems with Burn, why not just completely change it as opposed to making it useless? Something like combustion, but either more damage or a chance to continue to burn for a little extra damage (while keeping the immob resistance). This would also help out fiery embrace for not /fire tanks. I know that it would be "just another combustion", but AoE's are good for tanks. That way fear would no longer be an issue, Fire/ tanks would still have the most damaging primary (as they should), they'd have another way to hold aggro, it would make a power from the primary usefull to non /Fire tanks, and they'd keep the immob protection. Of course, many will poke holes in my little suggestion, but I'm just tired of seeing all of the hostility. I hope the devs are sick of it too... maybe they'll come around.
50 Tankers: Ice/EM, Stone/WM, Fire/Stone, Dark/Ice, Inv/SS, Inv/Dark, Elec/Elec
50 Brutes: ElecMelee/EA, WM/Elec
Uh, hi....
Burn will never be the same, but I tried it on test server and it still works for damage. You absolutly need to have blazing aura with a taunt in it though.
Frankly I am disgusted by the way the Developers are handling i5. The pure lack of communication is apalling. They haven't even had the courtesy to address the player's legitimate concerns and ideas. Fanbios will site the fact that they are merely too busy. The fact of the matter is that they have purposefully elected to not participate in a discussion because they KNOW the majority of posters disagree with their intentions.
The mass nerfing is completely unbelievable. Phase Shift is the latest power to get nerfed. Do they think that nerfing is going to fix ANYTHING? Clearly they do, but they couldn't be more wrong. There will still be combinations that outperform others. For tanks, Stone/Fire comes to mind. The best defense and the best offense for tanks. A little power called teleport and there is no more mobility issue. I have SEEN this.
They are completely ignorant of the fact that ice tanks are crap, mind controllers are getting the shaft and dark defenders - well, why play one now?
I encourage everyone to try i5 for themselves and see how awful these changes are and how 'unfun'.
I also encourage people to cancel their accounts. If only for a month or two, the Devs need to get the message that they MUST respect their players opinions and desires.
I will wait and see how i5 ends up - try it out and will most likely cancel my subscription. The only power I have to affect change is to take away my monetary support.
I also intend to boycott all Cryptic and NC Soft products.
They must listen, and they must respond.
Ok, I am now to understand that the devs of this game DO NOT CARE about their playerbase. This absurd nerfmongering has really annoyed me to the limit. These devs have really done a 180° in terms of intelligence and I'm not wasting my time with this game anymore. I was looking forward to COV but now with all this nonsense, I don't think I will bother. I'm sure there are other game devs out there that don't try to drive people crazy. All you devs would get a BIG RED 'F' on your report cards. You have really turned me OFF of this game now.
People want to talk about quitting all the time. The devs are not worried about the loyal players quitting. They think that all these changes and the addition of CoV are going to increase their fanbase. They are trying to attract players from WoW and other similar games by changing the game to be more similar. Most of the loyal players like myself play this game because it is different then WoW and most other mmorpgs. The devs believe that the loyal players that that will lose will be out weighed by the players they gain. Lets face it, a great majority of the people on here who talk about quitting will not end up doing it anyway.
I personally dont believe that their game is going to be able to attract all the WoWers the way they think it can. Most people dont play pvp except to screw around with friends, yet still the developers are still pushing the move to a more PvP format.
To be honest the game itself is repetitive and boring. They ONLY reason I still play is I enjoy the friendships I have made. If they make it so bad that all my friends quit then I wont have a reason to play, and if thats the case, good luck with my game WoWers, hope you enjoy all being the same toon.
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The question has come up - "what's the point of Burn now?" Well, it still offers Immobilization defense (we're actually going to increase that duration). And Burn does do a lot of damage. Taunt alone might not bring mobs into Burn continually, but stunning, holding, immobilizing mobs in Burn is just plain devastating.
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States, how are the 20s-level Fire Tankers supposed to do this? Unless they're Fire/Ice?
I realize that Burn was formerly too "uber", but as of I5 (as it presently appears on the Training Room) you've changed all the other factors that made Burn "uber" in the first place. We can't herd anymore, our powers won't affect as many mobs...the most we can take out with Burn are one spawn's worth.
Or at least, that's the most we could take out with it if it worked.
At this point, I'm not concerned with being "uber" anymore. I'm just concerned with being able to solo. For many builds, Burn is the Fire Tanker's only attack (well, aside from an unslotted Scorch and Boxing) that they have from 18 on up through the 30s when they've finally gotten the defensive portion of their build in place. Up to this point, it was the thing that allowed us to solo those missions that didn't require help for some reason (can-opener attacks, archvillains, etc.). Not herd and burn. Solo.
Now, that power may have let us solo a little too fast. But that's okay, you can scale it back some. Make it do a little less damage, make the recharge a little longer. There's no reason we should be able to kill an entire spawn in just one application.
But you've gone too far with the recharge time and the fear effects. Burn is not going to be that useful anymore. Sure, we can grab a Controller or a Dark Defender to duo with us...but there are times that we just want to be on our own. We can do that once we hit the 30s and start taking attacks...but in the 20s that's not going to work. We can't easily "defeat all" in a mission if our only attack makes them run away. Sure, we shouldn't be able to solo "everything"--but the way this change works, now we'll find it hard to solo most things.
Again, let me say that Burn doesn't have to be as good as it was. Keep the scaled-back damage. Keep the long recharge time, even--though I'd greatly prefer you drop it to 30 or 20 seconds instead of the current 42.5. But please scale way back or lose entirely the fear effect. Let taunt or punchvoke override it. Let us solo at least somewhat effectively.
Singling out Burn over just about every other attack in the game to have this effect is unrealistic (as smart mobs shouldn't be hanging around to be frozen, zapped, smacked, sliced, impaled, deafened, shot, etc. either), it greatly negatively affects Fire Tankers' ability to solo, and consequently lessens our ability to have fun. It's the single most frustrating change of the entire update.
I know that you have changed your mind about certain much-argued powers in the past--seeing elsewhere in the I5 patch notes that toggles will no longer suppress travel powers brings this home to me (and is welcome news to my Dark Defender). Please take a moment and consider my arguments, and the arguments of other people in this thread.
I sincerely believe that in your zeal to adjust a power that was "too good"--and yes, I'll admit that the earlier version of Burn was too good--you have taken it too far the other way. Please give us some of its functionality back.