Statesman Speaks at Origins
By
87____,
Posted on: 2005-07-04 17:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Actually I think why he wants to remove the stores is simply because it's perhaps not something that fits well in his comic world that he envisions. So instead he'd rather make it more comicbooky by having it sold by contacts instead of stores. Oh well either way I really don't think he's going to get rid of them so you can't buy enhancements to upgrade yourself.
Thanks for the report. I love the million and one Doom posts. It's a bunch of people complaining about the cooking of the head cook of a resturant purely on descriptions of what he likes to have for lunch.
As a pen and paper rpg game mistress, I often think about how I would my campaigns over if I started over. I also think about what I am not personally happy with and what areas of the game could go smoother. Of course, what I think of the game and what I do are entirely different things. From what you report, I didn't see much of anything that was going to happen, just what was on States' mind. Are we so devoid of fights to wage that we have to pick on the Devs for their opinons? I'd rather save that rage for actual changes.
Thanks for the update, info, and post...one thing, one tiny sentence that you said left me a bit confused...
Something was mentioned about "No wings, too difficult to program." Am I reading this right? No winged ATs or am I jumping the gun?
Again, thanks for all of the information!!
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As I remember it, Mr. E. was discussing a few ideas in the context of animal or pet sidekicks
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I hear "Mister E" and I think white trenchcoat, dark glasses, and cane.
If Jack Emmert was dressed like that, I would want pictures.
Hmm... "Mister E" ... "Cryptic" ... hmm ...
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Nerfs: Mr. Emmert through out the lecture constantly said that arising to challenges =fun.
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This meme really needs to die die die. There is not one form of fun that applies to everyone.
(I know, this quote is taken out of context by the nature of this summary, and that may not be what States intended at all. But it's something I've been getting tired of hearing.)
For example, I've had a great deal of fun at various points in the last year merely sitting in the park roleplaying for WEEKS, doing no more than a handful of missions on the side. The most "challenging" things involved then were keeping up with the text scroll, and putting up with griefers.
As another example, progress is also fun for some people, in and of itself, regardless of how one achieves it. More fun than meeting challenges could ever hope to be. These people are neither wrong-headed nor lazy, nor is there something wrong with a game because they appear. Everybody has their own tolerance for "challenge" (read: frustration at the difficulty of the game), and (shockingly) some people are probably going to have a lower tolerance than thou. Some people are also going to have a higher tolerance.
There's nothing wrong with those people who like an easy game (or a hard one). If someone finds the game too easy and therefore boring, I submit that that might just be because they aren't one of those people. That doesn't make their opinion any more right, it just makes it different.
As soon as you set the bar at a certain fixed level, you leave everyone who falls below that point with nothing more than frustration. Plus, you also rob them of the fun of making progress in the bargain. The difficulty slider was meant to provide a range. If the upper levels of the range aren't hard enough to suit, perhaps the slider should simply have more levels. With a diminishing benefit, so things don't get ridiculous as you go higher. People wil then optimize at what they find ... well, optimal.
Frankly, I'd rather make my own calls on how easy or hard I want the game to be than let someone else -- who could easily be, and probably is, either higher or lower than me -- do it for me.
In summary: Don't tell me what I find fun. I know what I enjoy better than anyone else does. And don't try to force your idea of fun on me. I'm here voluntarily, because *I* like what the game is, not because of its resemblence to what the devs want (as long as those are similar, there's no problem. When they diverge, guess which one wins?).
Just give me the tools to find my own brand of fun, then stay the hell out of my way while I enjoy it. As long as it doesn't negatively impact others' enjoyment (being offended because I enjoy something you think I shouldn't doesn't count), nobody has any room to complain.
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Hold on to your seats folks, he HATES the stores in Talos and IP. As soon as he is able he will get rid of them. I dont know the man, I didnt even meet him but through the whole con I never saw a look of utter disgust on his face except when he was talking about the stores. I think he wants a purely contact enhancement purchase system.
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Frankly, I'd hate this if it's anything like hte non-power-ten stuff. I MUCH prefer the stores (in Talos anyway ... in IP there's no point leaving the area of the Tram-Kings Row Gate) over contacts, for one simple reason, which was made very clear to me when I came back from a recent short break from the game: I can never bloody figure out/remember who sells what non-power-10 enhancements.
Yes, I know I can look them up on guide sites. The point is, I don't want to have to, and don't feel like I should need to. I *like* knowing that I can go to the mutation store for all my mutation buying and selling needs.
It'd be one thing if I could click on each of my contacts (or a contact I don't have yet) and get a list of exactly what they sold (without being able to buy it). If for no other reason than my character has already been there and might actually remember that.
Or better yet, just give me a way to "show me all contacts that sell such-and-such, tell me if I have any of them, and more specifically, if I've built-up that high".
Making all contacts operate the way non-power-10s do now would be more frustrating than fun. I also suspect that, even if the stores were merely replaced with FF-style contact stores, part of the goal would be to make Talos less convenient/centralized, more like FF and IP.
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Well why would it be wrong to be able to kill 50 in one shot if you have an extremely powerful AoE (i.e. Nova)? If someone can herd 50 even level minions into a central area, why would it be wrong for a Blaster to be able to kill 50 even level minions? The minions are all clustered together and are within range of the Nova. What's wrong? The only thing wrong i see here is the fact that someone was able to herd 50 minions so the Blaster could Nova them.
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The two are opposite sides of the same coin. A tanker able to survive that many mobs means big reward, little risk. A blaster able to take that many mobs out with just 1 shot means big reward, little risk. One means a long fight doesn't matter. The other means the fight is super short. Both lead to herding. The greatest rewards should stem from greater risk, not the safest route.
Some sort of hardcoded can't pull more cap doesn't appeal to me at all. It means if you have a skilled group that's rocking the place, you can't push yourself any harder. Nor can you really nerf the melee archtypes enough that they can't herd. They'll pop insps, they'll get buffs, and they'll do it. So unless you nerf them to the point where they have blaster defenses, they'll find a way to herd. You want to reward skill, keep an element of risk, the instant death must go.
And at the worst, if it all works somehow, and you stop mass herding but leave the 9th tier powers alone, it just means you're herding less mobs, at even less risk, just gotta do it more often.
Fights that are over instantly aren't fun. A bit of chaos, a bit of potential for chaos, that's what makes for engaging gameplay and helps to develop more skilled players.
Yea go ahead and nerf powelvling, see how many players you lose. Champion will be dead, i know that. *somethings not right, nerf nerf nerf nerf* i mean come on, u already broke our backs with the Hammy O's, and i think one more major nerf and there go all your long time players, myself including.
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Hey, it's like the old saying goes...
"Tragedy is when I get an enhancement I don't need. Comedy is when Statesman nerfs your brains out."
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Mel Brooks said that?
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Mel Brooks is hardcore like that.
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I like that time Mel Brooks portrayed Requiem.
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Good god, will anyone play anything but a defender or a controller next issue? This new blaster power looks pretty sucktastic to me.
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I agree that it's probably not very workable for blasters, but it's not going to make you any worse off. It'll probably be as decisive as criticals in most situations.
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No wings it would take up too much programming time.
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i suspect that the concept the Devs have for wings involve realistically animated bird or bat wings. While i think that would be very cool overall, i'd be just as happy to have the option to replace the flight effects with energy wings like a larger version of the Kheldian eye glow or insect style wings that just vibrate up and down and fold out of sight when flight is off or mostly stationary mechanical wings. i don't know why those sorts of wings would be harder to code than the capes, but i admit that i am not an animator. For example: take the animations for the Kheld Nova's mandibles and use the same articulations/movements for wings that sprout from your back when you toggle flight. Perhaps they could split the insect cape down the middle into two narrow capes and have each one stiffen/flatten while swinging up and out when you move instead of rippling back.
In the event that players might at some point have access to wings in a form that isn't part of an epic AT i would think they'd be a cape subtype much like tails are a subtype of belts.
There've been a lot of heroes and villains with the types of wings i've described in comics, so why not in CoH/V?
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
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Good god, will anyone play anything but a defender or a controller next issue? This new blaster power looks pretty sucktastic to me.
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I agree that it's probably not very workable for blasters, but it's not going to make you any worse off. It'll probably be as decisive as criticals in most situations.
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A had a crit help my scrapper once. Earlier that night aliens abducted me while I was attacked by bigfoot after having won the lottery.
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Good god, will anyone play anything but a defender or a controller next issue? This new blaster power looks pretty sucktastic to me.
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I agree that it's probably not very workable for blasters, but it's not going to make you any worse off. It'll probably be as decisive as criticals in most situations.
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A had a crit help my scrapper once. Earlier that night aliens abducted me while I was attacked by bigfoot after having won the lottery.
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My MA/SR scrapper crits quite often. It's almost always Cobra Strike that gets the critical, but sometimes you need that extra 5 or so points of damage... 
Now if criticals also doubled/stacked status effects... 
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
What's wrong with criticals is that Bosses do not have more hit points and so die before the scrappers critical advantage can make them really shine on teams.
Of course, with defender debuffs, I'm fairly certain a scrapper could never generate so much damage my blaster would go "wow".
I'm trying to figure out why the Devs are making a new game. We can't get to what caps without a defender? Does this mean an aim/buildup nerf? Is it a nerf on flooring the defense cap so as to kill the Def based characters like SR and Ice tanks? Is it just resist so that scrappers will ahve far less resist than they do now?
So players will be spending 6 slots on powers and get virtually no return unless there's a defender present? Why slot at all if you MUST team with defenders and controllers?
Statesman has really confused me with this crap. The time has clearly come for me to bow out of this game again.
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Blasters: First off, blasters are going to get a new inherent ability (much like the scrapper critical is inherent to that AT) called desperation. The lower the blasters hit points the more damage they will do. As I write this I wish I had asked for more details IE ratio of damage to health but I didnt <sigh>.
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To be honest, I really hope that he means "Along with some form of protection/defense/aggro reduction/ect".
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Lol, excellent point. not much room for desperation when your getting "one Shotted"
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Uh... no that would be an exaggeration.
But personally I think being able to take on 50 mobs at the same time is a whole lot of fun, it's what really makes a hero feel super. If anything I think they should have NEW mobs which makes that much more difficult and have their own zone for it.
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I am one of those "new" MMO players and I totally agree with this POV. Feeling super makes me stay. Feeling average makes me go. I am all for challenge, but not at the sacrifice of what I can already do. Remember the original cape mission? the original respec? that was challenge that didn't need a nerf of powersets. yea it was hard, but that got the "yes" factor when you won. Much like the sewer trial. Change those things, don't weaken heroes.
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What Mr. Emmert should realize is that for HIM rising to a challenge is fun, for others having lead weights added to our feat until rising becomes a challenge is not fun.
The 30s game may not be balanced in his view. But in mine, it is fun.
If the standard truely was "if invincible offers no challenge prepare yourself for the nerf bat", that wouldn't be so bad. The problem is that the standard really is "if anyone with your powerset has less challenge than we want you to have, prepare for the nerfbat." If you're not min/maxing the build, learn now, the nerfs are going to be designed so that the min-maxers are brought to "normal" so anyone less optimized will be subnormal.
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Another fine point. you can't "nerf" the player, and there will always be players that can use any build better than otheres.
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I'm RICK JAMES, B***h!
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I'll be your Charlie Murphy and slap your [censored] around.
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Hey not, I'm not that kind of guy.
...I expect dinner and a movie, first.
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Hey, it's like the old saying goes...
"Tragedy is when I get an enhancement I don't need. Comedy is when Statesman nerfs your brains out."
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Mel Brooks said that?
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Mel Brooks is hardcore like that.
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I like that time Mel Brooks portrayed Requiem.
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And we could get Rick Morranis to play Lord Recluse.
Well, he was a fantastic Dark Helmet.
"I see your words..." ~The most menacing thing a forumite could say
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Well, I'm glad someone was taking notes!
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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As I remember it, Mr. E. was discussing a few ideas in the context of animal or pet sidekicks, i.e., an animal sidekick would start out at level 1, and the character would fight alongside said sidekick to raise that level. I think he may have also mentioned auto-exemplaring down to the animal sidekick's level, but don't quote me on that.
Mr. E. also mentioned, as I recall, that they were considering implementing ways of acquiring temporary powers outside of missions and the arena. I wouldn't be surprised if this became an alternate use for the universities.
Good summation overall, ZB. If I remember anything else important or interesting to add, I'll pop back in.
--VB
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Pets? As in a little puppy that you raise as your own? Wow, now that would be cool. I need a puppy
-k
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I choose you, Super Doggie! Go! Laser Eye Beam Attack!
I really wish I hadn't screwed up the time-zone I was working in. I only got there at the very end, but I asked him about CoV beta invites (if you're still reading the thread, States- great talk, from the little I saw of it)
119088 - Outcasts Overcharged. Heroic.
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...I'm in it for the Chicks.
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Thats your pickup line?
LiquidX: "Hey baby, I got 8000 posts all for you."
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It's better then my last one.
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8000 pickups? Huh? Stars for you, my friend, for effort!
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Ouch.
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Blasters: First off, blasters are going to get a new inherent ability (much like the scrapper critical is inherent to that AT) called desperation. The lower the blasters hit points the more damage they will do. As I write this I wish I had asked for more details IE ratio of damage to health but I didnt <sigh>.
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To be honest, I really hope that he means "Along with some form of protection/defense/aggro reduction/ect".
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Lol, excellent point. not much room for desperation when your getting "one Shotted"
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Does this mean that my Blastsers can go from experienceing desperation to actually HAVING Desperation? 
So lemme get this straight He HATES the stores in Talos and Independence Port ?? Why because we can buy SO enhancements there and make our characters MORE effective which is actually FUN.
This to me is a stupid change and a stupid waste of time and effort.
Basically this is what I see. We want to make the game more challenging and harder not because it is more fun to play but because it makes you spend more money.. Period..
The hard things I can do--- The impossible just take a little bit longer.
If numbers are so much more important than a teammate who is fun to play with, forget about the game altogether and go play with a calculator instead. -Claws and Effect-