Dyne_

[ QUOTE ]
2. 1953 - we know Astoria was dark.
Early 2000s - I'd say it's an assumption it was "light," or at least not as dark, given that there are heroes buried there from the Rikti war, as well as members of the Midnight Squad who died in an attack in 1999. Plus, it's a built up commercial area.

[/ QUOTE ]

The security chief says outright that the area has always been "Dark" Astoria to the residents of the city, regardless how the name is officially written on maps. The adjective seems to be related mainly to the fact that Moth Cemetery has always been spooky, even without the Pantheon, fog, zombies, and ghosts. All that we really know is that Dark Astoria was in some way changed from its normal state prior to 1953, and it was either a large enough problem or recent enough event at the time to be the subject of an oath sworn at the founding of a prominent SG.

The area may or may not have been recovered since the fifties, but the presence of built-up areas isn't really an issue even if it hasn't. I hear they had rudimentary streets and buildings in those ancient times...

[ QUOTE ]
What happened to her? She obviously had to have been incredibly powerful, but there's no mention of her anywhere else in the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

I believe Ishmael and his plot to enslave the mind of citizens (and everything else mentioned in the related history plaques, including the Grimm Fairy) was added off-the-cuff, primarily to rationalize a well-known glitch in King's Row. (The civilians would follow a path that had them bunch up and go back and forth at the set of slanted bunker doors that sits near the plaque across the street from the KR tram. Clearly, someone was mind-controlling them.) That's why she isn't mentioned anywhere else; unless she's a cameo of a dev's character, she was likely made up specifically for the Pariah history plaques.

No reason this should stop you from asking, but I'd not be surprised if the answer was that there simply wasn't any more story to tell.

[ QUOTE ]
When did The Incident that cast Astoria into gloom happen, precisely? All I've been able to discern is that it occurred shortly after the Rikti War... and I'm not even 100% on that.

[/ QUOTE ]

There's a historical plaque in Astoria that implies it has been this way for over fifty years (and yes, I believe there is other information that contradicts this, but I don't recall where):

"When the Freedom Phalanx became an officially recognized Super Group in 1953, the hero Vambrace made a pledge. 'Dark Astoria will be restored to its natural state,' he said. 'The Freedom Phalanx is committed to saving every part of Paragon City, even those that may seem lost. "


And to avoid my making a new post to reply to him... Venture said:

[ QUOTE ]
The Clockwork King is not being kept alive by some technological means. He is alive because he will not die. His own psychic power is sustaining his brain. Yes, that's violating the laws of physics but around here this is "two for flinching"

[/ QUOTE ]

My point isn't "how is he being kept alive" but rather "how did performing auto brain surgery (including reattachment of his eyes, which aren't exactly removable intact), while wounded and dying, not instantly kill him or at least cause severe damage unrelated to his madness?"

I can believe that he "nourishes" his brain psychically or whatever (to the point that I didn't even bother asking about his life support, though I've wondered). However, that's a far cry from total invulnerability to harm, which he clearly did not possess. It's difficult to believe that someone largely ignorant of neural anatomy could *remotely remove his own brain* without cutting into something important (such as whatever portion of the brain gives him his powers), killing himself or giving himself brain damage with the ensuing loss of blood pressure, or any of a hundred other likely mistakes, no matter how much he "refuses to die".

In any case, while I appreciate the thought, this thread is about looking for in-canon answers and lore.

Unless you are saying that either the game or the devs have said that he survived because "will not die", such a response is no more justified here than saying that the surgery was REALLY performed by his best friend Larry Vahzilok who is the bestest surgeon in the world (behind his more famous brother), and that the patient survived because they had previously found a jar full of magical nanobots (which are cyan in color) in a liquid that tastes like delicious fruit pie ... the very same jar that even now houses the nefarious Clockwork King! (dun dun dunnnnn).

Or simply saying that the King can actually teleport his brain out of his human body.

I don't mind people making suggestions (as I do it myself) or speculating, but only the devs can give any real answer to my questions or assumptions, unless there's something in game that I missed.

The Clockwork and the King

My favorite villain group/Archvillain have always been the Clockwork and the Clockwork King, and I was always disappointed that there wasn't more information released about his background. (Also, some of what exists seems contradictory if taken at face value.)

(Spoiler Warning: Anyone who hasn't played through The Mind of a King or The Praetorian War storyarcs may want to skip this post. Also, I am using Paragon Wiki as a reference, rather than hunting all of this stuff down again myself ... my own memory of those storyarcs and related material is several years old, and possibly out of date due to revisions in the game, so the wiki seems more reliable.)

The actual questions are colored and bolded; the rest is analysis and such.


* Does the man who became the Clockwork King have a name in lore? One is never given in the game, that I'm aware of. I get tired of calling him "the guy that became the Clockwork King".

(If -- as I assume to be the case -- he doesn't already have an official one, might I suggest August Horologium? "August" being an adjective applied to kings, "Horologium" being the term for a building that houses a clock.)


* Was he driven mad because of his powers, or because of his encounter with Blue Steel? Blue Steel's backstory as published on the site suggests the latter, but the guy that Blue Steel fought was already building minions identifiable as the oddball Sprockets that we have today, so presumably he was already beginning to make a "clockwork court". That implies he was off-kilter to begin with, though Blue Steel may certainly have pushed him over the edge.

* Does he have a background in robotics? He has often been described as a "mad genius", and some of the elements of clockwork design imply that he does (see the note about Cannon/Tesla Princes below). This is related to the question "to what degree are the Clockwork actually technological", which is seemingly a bit of a jumble in-game...

-Mind of a King says outright that the Clockwork are "little more than wind-up toys" by themselves. Scattered here and there are other indications that the clockwork not only don't, but can't work technologically.

-The Praetorian War (IIRC) suggests that Antimatter stole the Praetorian Clockwork King's designs for his own use, which would be silly if they weren't designs for a functional (and advanced) technology.

And parallelism suggests that if the Praetorian Clockwork King were building actual robots, then the regular Clockwork King would have been doing likewise, at least at some point in his history.

-In slight contradiction of "Mind of a King", some of the Clockwork mobs (specifically, cannon and tesla princes) are described as having "advanced robotic brains", which is apparently what makes seem more human-like.

-Nevertheless, all of the clockwork are capable of speech and have some rudimentary personality, regardless of rank. As the presence of a programmed brain seems to be tied to high rank, while the lower ranks seem to be constructed of whatever happens to be lying around, this suggests that their behavior and personality is to a large degree independent of the existence of such advanced equipment in their design.

- The Psychic Clockwork are capable of using psychic blasts on their own. This suggests that the Clockwork have a deeper connection to his mind than either a robot brain or mere telekinetic puppetry would imply ... at least on that world.


Thoughts:

Personally, I assume that the King was originally a brilliant (if erratic) roboticist, but he gradually dropped any pretense of real research as his growing powers and insanity made it superfluous, as well as more difficult to obtain funding and facilities (and as the clockwork became less like actual robots, raw materials). This led him to petty theft and the events in Blue Steel's encounter.

I have long had the theory that while the Clockwork use telekinesis for motive force, they are also psychically utilizing some submerged fragment of the King's shattered mind for their intelligence, individual personality, and sense of purpose (e.g., they aren't being controlled consciously, and they presumably function even when he sleeps or falls unconscious). This is what makes the more powerful constructs seem "almost human" (they draw on a much larger fragment ... like a permanent alternate personality in robot form), not any "advanced" brain.

(Side note: No matter how it works, one of the more horrific aspects of the Clockwork King's story is that he effectively severed his own brain from his body. This, incidentally, supports the idea that he was once a roboticist. He'd presumably need some sort of medical training to enact and survive such a procedure, such as studying neuroscience to help create models of A.I.)

I'm a big proponent of player-created content, and that hasn't changed in the slightest.

I'm not leaving over this stuff or anything, and I do expect the Architect to eventually settle down (it can hardly be considered usable until it does). I'm just irritated by it ... or more accurately, by the (apparent) rationale behind some of the changes.

In any event, I'm keeping an eye on Issue 15.

[ QUOTE ]
No kidding. Already lost an arc because the last map took place on the Crey Revenant lab map...which was pulled. And the map was perfect for my arc since it involved a crazy geneticist working with Crey to make a bunch of freakish monsters by cloning an original.

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, the second half of my two-part arc uses it as well. Both halves are currently nonfunctional (not sure why the first one broke, as I've got no errors listed, but I don't feel like fooling with it much at the moment).

I'm willing to accept the possibility that the Crey map wasn't deliberately removed. On the other hand, if it was deliberately removed, it needs to be in the patch notes, ideally with a better explanation than "Oh, you shouldn't be using this. Use a generic map instead."

[ QUOTE ]
Before, impressive pillar of pink/violet energy, perfect for a swarm of Storm Elementals, minions of a mad god, who share those colours mind you, to use to contain their incredibly powerful prey.

After, a tiny, sad, wussy ring of green and blue that doesn't match their colours or have a tenth of the visual impact or grandeur the old one had.

Comparison (Link)

[/ QUOTE ]

Gah. That's worse-looking than I had thought. I have to assume it's broken, as that's practically no effect at all. Certainly, if that's the intent, it's a lot more than "slightly modified" and whoever thought it was should be lectured about misleading patch notes.


Personally, the original "it was intended for a specific use" argument for changing it doesn't hold much water with me in any case. Yes? So? So was the Clockwork King's factory map, Ruludak's cave, and Vahzilok's sewer, and those are all in there unless they were removed by this patch. People are using the effect precisely because it isn't commonly seen (and looks pretty cool). The green CoT equivalent? Seen WAY too often.

(I didn't get a chance to test this patch on TR, otherwise I certainly would have complained about this then, as the patch note has been rubbing me the wrong way since it was first posted.)

Embrace the customizability of the game. Don't cripple it with arbitrary restrictions on what we can and can't use. Taking stuff out of the Architect (or omitting it) needs to have a good reason, where good reasons are technical constraints or a lack of time, not simply "our cool content, not yours".

Unless you plan on putting new effects and maps into the game SOLELY for the Mission Architect -- and I mean a LOT of them -- you are just going to create bad blood by arbitrarily preventing us from using the small amount of available content that isn't already heavily overused.


(I'm also a bit fed up with the "every other patch invalidates missions and requires a redesign due to stuff being randomly removed from the Architect" thing, especially when there's no explanation why those things were removed or whether they'll be back. I think I'm going to be waiting until you guys get the MA content more stable before bothering to work with it further. Maybe you should consider compiling a list of things that shouldn't be there and post it now so people can predict which missions will break whenever you get around to fixing it.

Or more likely, attempt to convince you to leave it in... maybe that's why this hasn't been done. Hmm.)

[ QUOTE ]
--- [NCMA] - Non-Canon Mission Arc (Not grounded in COH canon, an "Elseworlds" arc)


[/ QUOTE ]

There should be a middle-ground tag for this. Canonicity isn't binary; it's a matter of degree.

Non-canon and Elseworlds, to me, imply a free-for-all/anything goes arc, the kind where Statesman is a woman (Stateswoman?) and the contact is her secret love child with Lord Recluse, or one where the Rikti never invaded, or one that makes no attempt to relate to the CoH story at all.

Arcs that build upon canon** aren't canonical, but are much closer to it than that.

Expanded Canon (ECA), perhaps. Sort of like the Expanded Universe of Star Wars, only without Kevin J. Anderson.

(** I'd consider the first arc in my sig to be one of these, because -- among other things -- I expand on the nature of the clockwork as revealed in the Mind of a King storyarc.)

Edit: Also, I'd recommend adding one for Alternate Universe stuff (In the sense of Portal Corporation, not Elseworlds)


I'm going to second the suggestion to drop at least one letter of the "MA" bit (if not the whole thing), false positives or no. (Thus my not using it above.) There is little room for redundancy in either the description field or arcs that are heavy on custom critters.

Further, too many letters makes your description look like unreadable alphabet soup, which may be counterproductive (people who are unfamiliar with the system (i.e., most players) may very well start avoiding arcs with too many tags rather than trying to figure them out.

It also makes me want to grab people and reprise the end scene of Invasion of the Body Snatchers, only ranting about how MA stands for "Mission Architect" and the correct term for these is Story Arc, but that's just nit-picking.

[ QUOTE ]
Of course then there is your use of EST, when the 'real world' East coast is on EDT right now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Meh, I'm in the time zone and I don't even bother with that; I certainly don't expect people in California to do it. Insert obligatory time change grousing here.

[ QUOTE ]
Arc: 3962 and 4804
Temporal Anomalies
and
Inversion Point

[/ QUOTE ]

Thank you for taking the time to play these, Hell_O_Ween.

I'm going to keep my commentary here (somewhat) brief, as I'm sure most people don't really care about my point-by-point reaction. But I'll address a few of your comments, simply because they may clarify things for those who decide to play or not play based on it.

[ QUOTE ]
Contact: Professor Jamie Salladon AKA Usurper Dyne (custom) then Heteodyne (custom)

[/ QUOTE ]

Heterodyne, otherwise correct.


[ QUOTE ]
Your two contacts have fully fleshed out stories making me think they are the authors toons.

[/ QUOTE ]

Correct. This arc is, in essence, an answer to the hypothetical question "if your character was a signature character, what would their Task Force be about?"


[ QUOTE ]
Mission 2: Each goal is a triggered event. I assume this was done to make you find things in specific order which is a neat idea but it results in some backtracking.

[/ QUOTE ]

Apart from ensuring the sequence of the hostages, it's mostly a holdover from earlier versions of the mission. I'll look into revising it.


[ QUOTE ]
But they are small. I understand that they are little statues but for some reason all the small foes in the MA is getting to me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think there's a bug with the creator where it doesn't always save the scales correctly, so some of what you're seeing may be unintentional. But in my case it was deliberate (for the servitors). Yes, they are statues, but more to the point, they are parallel Clockwork, and most of the Clockwork are pretty small.


[ QUOTE ]
Even with the corrupted text in Usurpers mission briefing you just go along and do his mission without saying a word about it

[/ QUOTE ]

Good point. My thinking was that the player's character would obviously have realized that something was wrong (probably before this mission), but that the system wouldn't be giving them any real way to figure out the cause, short of continuing the simulation in order to see what it does next. I was also wary of putting words in the player's mouth (though I suppose I already did that with some of the Accept Mission strings)

I have an idea on how to handle this more explicitly, without requiring branching text or whatnot, but I don't know whether there's space left to pull it off, so I'll have to do some testing and adjusting this evening.


[ QUOTE ]
I loved the idea of entering Mynx's personal training simulation

[/ QUOTE ]

That mission was a lot of fun to write.


[ QUOTE ]
Mission 3 (7): I am not sure if it was intended or not but the Boss you need to fight spawned very close to the entrance so the mission was over quickly.

[/ QUOTE ]

No ... the spawn placement settings have no effect on most outdoor maps, so the location is entirely out of my control.


[ QUOTE ]
The very first glowy dropped the clue [...] Perhaps have it that you need to collect the others first making the last one a triggered event which then triggers the final fight.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll have to do something about it, as that behavior is definitely not intended. It's either a bug, or I've been misunderstanidn how collections work all this time.


[ QUOTE ]
The second arc only lost marks because of the casual Mynx friendship remark...it had a very 'I am so cool I sit at the cool table' feel to it that really hurt my opinion of the contacts. I know that wasn't your intent (at least I hope it wasn't) but it really rubbed me the wrong way.

[/ QUOTE ]

No, it wasn't. (As a level 50 character he technically does "sit at the cool table" now, according to the game itself, but this isn't about him and the player has no reason to know or care about his accomplishments, so that's not what I was going for. I only hint that he's "up there" by having him form the task force on his own initiative.)

The Mynx friendship thing is pretty much just me poking fun at my own characters for my own amusement (players would have had no way of getting the joke unless they were around at the time it happened).

See, back in the dim and misty of 2004, when UD was in the Skyway level range, I hadn't found any roleplayers to hang with, and I was bored of repetitive soloing. To amuse myself, I started having UD "chat up" Mynx (badly) in Local whenever I went by there (he's a geek ... she's a catgirl ... it seemed an obvious thing to do at the time). Being an NPC, she obviously never responded to him beyond her function as a trainer, which I interpreted as "keeping things entirely professional".

So, UD is deluding himself (and by extension, so is Heterodyne) ... or to be charitable, they are "misremembering things". There was never any significant in-character relationship between UD and Mynx.

The allusion was also a (very terse) explanation for why I chose to add that particular character to the story. But if it is giving the impression I'm trying to make UD seem cooler-than-thou, I'll take it out.


[ QUOTE ]
As a minor note, you make a big deal out of your mission being cannon or rather CANNON yet all that really is cannon are the refrences you make to past cannon events. And your contacts actually break cannon.

[/ QUOTE ]

That particular tag wasn't my idea ... it came from a thread here in the forums, where it was suggested for arcs that "make an effort to work into the story of the game" (or something along those lines). Whatever the exact wording, it was broad enough that to my mind, it included arcs that attempt to expand upon canon, as long as they don't outright contradict it. If it's misleading, out it goes.

I don't think I contradicted anything that is explicitly factual in canon, though I am well aware that I elaborated on some canonical *deductions* about the nature of the Clockwork, which isn't quite the same thing. In Mind of a King (the text of which I just reread on the wiki), you learn how the clockwork are powered, and Synapse makes a reference to this in his TF, but that only addresses how they move, not the nature of the personalities (or lack thereof) that they display. In this arc, I didn't say that the working theory was incorrect, only that it was incomplete.

(I believe that there is some indication in the clockwork boss descriptions that they have robotic brains, but that IS contradicted by Mind of a King, so I ignore it as an explanation.)

(The idea that the Clockwork can go rogue is based on the prevalence of clockwork hero characters ... they were a common sight at one time not long after release. This is just me making a nod to those other players ... not anyone in particular, though.)

If anybody is looking for something to do, feel free to review my two-parter: 3962 and 4804 (in that order).


The thing is story-oriented, but that's not to say it's necessarily a cakewalk ... I spent most of my revision time trying to make it easier, actually. Both parts should be soloable at difficulty 1 on most non-support builds, in spite of the big bads. Teams might be better off with 4+ members rather than duos or trios.

The allies are all EB rank (deliberately, as I've already tried setting them lower and didn't like the results), and there is one defeat all mission in the second half (it's a relatively small one, though).

In case you want to get XP for it, the first arc is capped at max level 20, the second at max levels 29-30 (depending on the mission).

Edited my previous post to include the Live Server ArcIDs, 3962 and 4804.

I'm at work right now so I've not tested yet, but you could most likely just surround the text with nowiki and maybe pre or code tags to force it to display right. I'm installing a local mediawiki on my laptop for other reasons so I'll find out soon.

Edit: Yep. just surround it like so...

<pre><nowiki>
Costume data
</nowiki></pre>

I posted a question on the discussion page here about posting costumes in articles.

I've posted on the MA forum already, but ... two-part story here, collectively known as Jamie Salladon's Task Force. Now with 50% more completed cover images (for the first half ... the second half's image is still in progress).

Cover Image 1!

ArcID: 3962
Title: Temporal Anomalies
Description: The Clockwork are behaving even more oddly than normal, and a seemingly ordinary mission to deal with them exposes a much larger threat. Note: I assume you have completed the Synapse Task Force, or at least know the revelation about the Clockwork therein.
Length: Four missions, no defeat alls


ArcID: 4804
Title: The Inversion Point
Description: You have exposed a threat to the city. Now you must discover who is ultimately behind it and put a stop to it.
Length: Four missions, one is a defeat all on a smallish map.


These arcs should be soloable, at least with non-support characters and judicious inspiration use. I'm going for story, not difficulty. Any feedback is most welcome, but especially let me know if you find the enemies in either arc (especially the first one) are too hard with a team (at a reasonable difficulty level).

Feedback thread here

Also, the arcs have been added to HighTreason's Arc search site. Their pages are: Temporal Anomalies and The Inversion Point

Edit: I've updated the ArcIDs to their Live Server numbers. (The old numbers were 16189 and 17153.)

These comprise a two part, story-oriented arc. I have some little promotional covers, though they aren't finished yet, so consider them previews.

Cover Image
Arc Name: Temporal Anomalies
Arc ID: 16189
Morality: Heroic
Creator Global Name: @Dyne
Difficulty Level: Medium*
Synopsis: While looking into unusual Clockwork behavior, you uncover a much more serious threat, one that ultimately threatens the entire city.

Cover Image
Arc Name: The Inversion Point
Arc ID: 17153
Morality: Heroic
Creator Global Name: @Dyne
Difficulty Level: Medium*
Synopsis: You have exposed the invasion, now you must find out who is behind it and how to stop it.


Link for Feedback for both arcs


* I'm not a good judge of this, but I've soloed both halves on several different characters @ lowest difficulty. High difficulty levels or large team sizes may or may not make it harder.

I'm going to have to pass on the latest poll (about I9), given that you elected not to release the results of this one.

Polls don't interest me much unless I get to see the results and how well my opinions align with the rest of the community, and what the community as a whole has ultimately said. I mean, if I merely wanted to express my individual opinion that the devs might or might not adopt (and will probably not indicate one way or the other), I don't need a poll for that. I can just make a post.

It's great that you asked us for feedback, but unless we know what feedback we collectively gave you, we won't have any sense of whether you listened or just chose to ignore us and do your own thing. (If I were more cynical, I'd assume that was the point.)

It's like going to vote for the next president and only finding out who (allegedly) won by waiting to see who got inaugurated.

[ QUOTE ]
The Clockwork are not actual robots; they are hunks of metal animated by the mental power of the Clockwork King.

[/ QUOTE ]

The point in the clockwork at which the Clockwork King's "telekinetic" power ends and the actual technology in their bodies begins has never really been explicitly set.

The Clocks are, however, complicated enough that in the early story arcs, people studying them still believe they are robots. Robots that shouldn't work, but still at least somewhat robot-like. The storyline would be significantly less involved if they were obviously merely articulated scrap metal dolls. Also, some of the bosses speak as though they are somewhat computerized, rather than as if they are drawing on the king's mind.

My thinking is that the clockwork still incorporate some advanced technology ... it's just incorporated by a madman, so it isn't anything like coherent or well-planned, and isn't really functional without the King's mind powers to provide the interfacing and intelligence). No two Clocks are exactly alike in how much or what kinds of tech they use.


[ QUOTE ]
Having a Clock hang out with you would require the King's complicity. Or I guess building a working robot yourself that just looked like a Clock. But why would a hero do that?

[/ QUOTE ]

Infiltration of the king's "court"? Nostalgia? Because the Clockwork King didn't invent the idea of a clockwork robot?

How about because they have a history?

In Usurper Dyne's (one of my characters) backstory, he was friends with the Clockwork King when they were fresh out of college, and they researched robotics together (this was obviously before the villain's powers manifested and his subsequent transformation and insanity). Even then, their technology would have been recognizably "clockwork themed".

There are also indications (mostly by way of various alternate earths) that UD has similar psychic powers, albeit untriggered and undeveloped (basically I was implying that there is a deeper connection between hero and villain than their superficial history).

Basically, UD is what you'd get if the Clockwork King hadn't gone insane/evil and given up on real technology.

So it's entirely possible UD could animate a clockwork-style robot of his own, either through "mundane" robotics or by discovering how to mentally control one.

It's also fairly likely that he might find some reason to do so ... UD's brain was installed in a cyborg body that was originally part of their robotics research. It's very clockwork-like. He knows that technology well, so many of the things he builds are clockwork-like as well. He has a history with the clockwork, not all of it involving fighting them. In a sense, UD is as much the creator of the Clockwork as the Clockwork King is, though he certainly doesn't control them.

I think he has plenty of justification for a clockwork pet.


Given my character's setup, it's probably not surprising that I've also interacted with a number of "rogue clockwork" characters. I can see them having a good excuse for such a pet, too.

Heck, I've had a child character that adopted (appropriated) a clockwork Gear and made it her "pet". It kept zapping her and anyone else that got friendly with it, but it being a Gear and her being essentially immune, it was more of a nuisance than a serious danger. If she noticed its viciousness at all, it was mostly to scold it for being "naughty" or thwock it on the head until it settled down.


There's nothing wrong with the existing pets; they just require that you get a little creative. I'm not much interested in falcons and things of that sort, personally, but it might've been good to add some that were more traditionally heroic. Perhaps they can do that later.

[ QUOTE ]
I am a "results" oriented person. I dislike having to dance around something to get nothing accomplished. That makes me speak bluntly, and directly. It is not a "nice" sort of conversation about the weather. But it is what it is, and accomplishes what it's meant to.

Even my free time is at a premium, I would rather spend more of it accomplishing, than trying to.

[/ QUOTE ]

Everyone's free time is at a premium.

If you speak too bluntly, and people take it the wrong way, you will spend more of that time trying to get the results you want than "dancing around" in the first place would have cost you, because people will no longer feel inclined to be helpful, and may in fact derive great pleasure in hindering you. There are reasons that people converse the way they do.

Being inflexible in conversation style is neither a virtue nor an optimum. It's just inflexible. It's up to you, but I tend to prefer the ability to use the right tool for the right job, rather than trying to treat every problem as a nail because the only tool you have is a hammer.

[ QUOTE ]
Given by a third party who apparently confused vehicle riding (as in standing on top of moving vehicles) for player vehicles.

[/ QUOTE ]

I read it as "neither of these things will happen", not confusion. The riding on top of vehicles was shot down a long time ago (like circa Issue 1), I believe, so the fact that we aren't getting that feature was no big surprise to me. On the other hand, it's also no surprise that it was addressed here, since I've heard it brought up by players fairly recently.

[ QUOTE ]
Also, there is no "maybe." They were confimed one, two, three times.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I seem to recall there was some doubt on the matter last time it was brought up by a red name. Couldn't give you a quote though.

I remember that much because it's a feature I want. Not for getting around value (though that'd be handy ... even five minutes getting across a zone is a pain if you do it often enough) More because I dislike having to mentally insert a vehicle or jetpack whenever I employ flight/hover (especially jetpacks, because I know those are already possible)

[ QUOTE ]
You don't change your mind about something that you've confirmed three times in three differen't places.

[/ QUOTE ]

What planet are you living on? Here on earth, that happens all the bloody time. Maybe it shouldn't, but it does. And in software/features, if it's not already in testing, you ALWAYS treat it as vaporware ... and sometimes even if it is.


To address those quotes, I've added out my own emphasis:

[ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
So those a are two considerations now I'm not exactly sure when but rest assured it's on the list of things I'd like to get to and certainly it's been partially designed and speced but it's a long way from implementation.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
My current thinking is that Vehicles wouldn't be a Power Pool, but rather something that could be leveled up independently and customized via Influence. But nothing is imminent here - I've only sketched out ideas.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
Question 2: Vehicles - Separate Expansion as in no Issue 5-10

[/ QUOTE ]

^ Yeah, that sounds like "maybe" to me! You'll excuse me if I hedge my bets on two direct quotes and a word for somebody who knew what was being said over one person who heard wrong.

[/ QUOTE ]

You assume they heard it wrong.

It sounds to me as though the plans were still very nebulous at each of those points in time (about every six months, looks like). States did say that it would happen, but that was well over a year ago. In the last quote, it sounds to me as if the entire idea of putting it in CoH via the normal method was scrapped in favor of doing something like CoV. It's not a very big step from there to abandoning the feature entirely.

I wish it weren't so, but your quotes don't seem to be the firm evidence you want.

Edit: I'll also note that it's ironic that the last thread you linked actually talks about people treating everything statesman says as gospel, no matter how nebulous...

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Nerfs: Mr. Emmert through out the lecture constantly said that arising to challenges =fun.

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This meme really needs to die die die. There is not one form of fun that applies to everyone.

(I know, this quote is taken out of context by the nature of this summary, and that may not be what States intended at all. But it's something I've been getting tired of hearing.)

For example, I've had a great deal of fun at various points in the last year merely sitting in the park roleplaying for WEEKS, doing no more than a handful of missions on the side. The most "challenging" things involved then were keeping up with the text scroll, and putting up with griefers.

As another example, progress is also fun for some people, in and of itself, regardless of how one achieves it. More fun than meeting challenges could ever hope to be. These people are neither wrong-headed nor lazy, nor is there something wrong with a game because they appear. Everybody has their own tolerance for "challenge" (read: frustration at the difficulty of the game), and (shockingly) some people are probably going to have a lower tolerance than thou. Some people are also going to have a higher tolerance.

There's nothing wrong with those people who like an easy game (or a hard one). If someone finds the game too easy and therefore boring, I submit that that might just be because they aren't one of those people. That doesn't make their opinion any more right, it just makes it different.

As soon as you set the bar at a certain fixed level, you leave everyone who falls below that point with nothing more than frustration. Plus, you also rob them of the fun of making progress in the bargain. The difficulty slider was meant to provide a range. If the upper levels of the range aren't hard enough to suit, perhaps the slider should simply have more levels. With a diminishing benefit, so things don't get ridiculous as you go higher. People wil then optimize at what they find ... well, optimal.

Frankly, I'd rather make my own calls on how easy or hard I want the game to be than let someone else -- who could easily be, and probably is, either higher or lower than me -- do it for me.

In summary: Don't tell me what I find fun. I know what I enjoy better than anyone else does. And don't try to force your idea of fun on me. I'm here voluntarily, because *I* like what the game is, not because of its resemblence to what the devs want (as long as those are similar, there's no problem. When they diverge, guess which one wins?).

Just give me the tools to find my own brand of fun, then stay the hell out of my way while I enjoy it. As long as it doesn't negatively impact others' enjoyment (being offended because I enjoy something you think I shouldn't doesn't count), nobody has any room to complain.



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Hold on to your seats folks, he HATES the stores in Talos and IP. As soon as he is able he will get rid of them. I don’t know the man, I didn’t even meet him but through the whole con I never saw a look of utter disgust on his face except when he was talking about the stores. I think he wants a purely contact enhancement purchase system.

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Frankly, I'd hate this if it's anything like hte non-power-ten stuff. I MUCH prefer the stores (in Talos anyway ... in IP there's no point leaving the area of the Tram-Kings Row Gate) over contacts, for one simple reason, which was made very clear to me when I came back from a recent short break from the game: I can never bloody figure out/remember who sells what non-power-10 enhancements.

Yes, I know I can look them up on guide sites. The point is, I don't want to have to, and don't feel like I should need to. I *like* knowing that I can go to the mutation store for all my mutation buying and selling needs.

It'd be one thing if I could click on each of my contacts (or a contact I don't have yet) and get a list of exactly what they sold (without being able to buy it). If for no other reason than my character has already been there and might actually remember that.

Or better yet, just give me a way to "show me all contacts that sell such-and-such, tell me if I have any of them, and more specifically, if I've built-up that high".

Making all contacts operate the way non-power-10s do now would be more frustrating than fun. I also suspect that, even if the stores were merely replaced with FF-style contact stores, part of the goal would be to make Talos less convenient/centralized, more like FF and IP.

I nearly always start in Galaxy, so I've no clue. IMO, it's more convenient than AP. Tram, Hospital, trainer, arena ... all in more or less one central area. Plus Gemini Park.