Statesman Speaks at Origins
By
87____,
Posted on: 2005-07-04 17:43 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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What Mr. Emmert should realize is that for HIM rising to a challenge is fun, for others having lead weights added to our feet until rising becomes a challenge is not fun.
The 30s game may not be balanced in his view. But in mine, it is fun.
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Very well written - my sentiments exactly.
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Main worry:
This means one of our main fixes is... more damage.
1) Strings attached however. It better be a massive increase because if you thought it was hard getting a heal before, just wait till the team starts TELLING the defender not to because they want more damage.
team blaster: from dead to deader.
Solo: possibly less downtime [take on one group normally for a better chance at a full alpha-kill on the next? THIS could be interesting in a way...]
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That would be a team I leave. Quickly. One of the requested fixes for blasters was "more damage." I don't think blasters are going to be given significant defense or a status protection power of any sort, so what else is there? The blaster motto has always been "Kill it fast or die fast." This allows the "Kill it fast" to be faster.
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2) Hopefully this doesn't come with the damage debuff I fear it may.
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As with the Desperation stuff, let's wait and see. I think this would lead to revolt.
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3) Will it really be all that useful? Usually we go from full-green to orange or blinking red for about a SECOND, before the rest of the volley's animations finish us off.
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I guess it depends on the situation. I can remember many times where I wouldn't have died (and this is with many characters, not just blasters) if only I could have done a sliver more damage to the bad guys before they got that last shot in. Blasters will now have that opportunity.
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So unless its a fully linear thing, or a series of buffs that activate for a bit of time when we fall under certain numbers... I'm not sure we'll even GET to taste that extra damage in the later levels where we'd need it.
Early on? sure, hellions can take a while to finish you off. But later? ... oops!
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On the contrary, I can see this being very useful at later levels. Most blasters have 2 decent AOEs that, when combined, can take out packs of even level or +1 level minions. This might help bump that to +2s (but it would be risky).
My only concern regarding this whole thing is all of this is meaningless if the blaster damage cap doesn't get raised to 500% (which the scrappers currently have).
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
/clap
Statesman is a genius. Keep raising the challenge level so the casual 30-minute gamer will now have to spend 4 hours in a single mission because you assume raising the challenge will also augment the "fun level." I love it.
And don't worry about us level 50s. We'll just find another game to tinker with until the dev team decides to wake up over there and get a clue. I enjoyed that whole, "...sidekicking with 50s will give the sidekick extra XP..." like it has anything to do with end game content. That's helping the lower levels, not the level 50s. Again. Genius. /sarcasm
You have to give him his props for trying though. I hope he understands that rather then balancing every possible thing in game down to the last percentage won't do much good if nobody has anything to actually do in game to actually FEEL the need to be balanced. Someone isn't seeing the light over there.
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Stamina- So in other words, he's gonna leave the base system BROKEN and force some AT Builds to give up 3 power selections for Stamina just to be able to WORK? I guess not even CRITICAL issues get the attentions they needed let alone Quality of Life issues...
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Ahem...
YOU DO NOT NEED STAMINA. The "requirement" of Stamina is simply in your head. The Necessity of Stamina has been greatly exagerated.
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I don't believe I need stamina for most of my characters. However, other have stated some of the builds just do not work right without it.
For years, I was anti-stamina and anti-hasten (I still don't see ANY instances where Hasten is "needed". Ever), but recently, I've begun to see how some genuinely need Stamina.
I'll never get Stamina for any of the Characters I don't want it on, same with Hasten.
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I've said this in other threads, but it's actually Hasten that causes the need for Stamina in most builds. I really don't think people really comprehend the massive amount of endurance you chew through with Perma Hasten. I've been building characters without Hasten and see a lesser need for Stamina, which means I can either avoid Stamina or not use 5 enhancement slots to max it out.
Arc# 92382 -- "The S.P.I.D.E.R. and the Tyrant" -- Ninjas! Robots! Praetorians! It's totally epic! Play it now!
Arc # 316340 -- "Husk" -- Azuria loses something, a young woman harbors a dark secret, and the fate of the world is in your hands.
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I know what your saying, I'm just poking at you, infact I'm kind of agreeing with you.
Porshe, pshh. Give me this.
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Corbin Sparrow When you're a king, you must know such things.
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And don't worry about us level 50s. We'll just find another game to tinker with until the dev team decides to wake up over there and get a clue. I enjoyed that whole, "...sidekicking with 50s will give the sidekick extra XP..." like it has anything to do with end game content. That's helping the lower levels, not the level 50s. Again. Genius. /sarcasm
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I don't think that's all he has planned for us. That's just an idea he stole from EQ II. But since EQ II stole exemplaring in the first place it's ok.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I've said this in other threads, but it's actually Hasten that causes the need for Stamina in most builds. I really don't think people really comprehend the massive amount of endurance you chew through with Perma Hasten.
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No, it's freakin' not.
Hasten doesn't do anything to your DPE; all it does is increase your DPS. DPE is what really determines whether you'll be running out of endurance during the fight or not. The only way Hasten hurts your endurance consumption is that you lose the slight amount of endurance you would have recovered during the extra time you spent on the fight because your DPS sucked without Hasten--and heck, if you really need that extra endurance to finish the fight, you can sit there not attacking for the amount of time you need to recover that endurance. If you've got the same DPE and endurance recovery as the guy without Hasten, you'll STILL finish the fight before him even though you ran out of endurance, because the same DPE says it'll take you both the same amount of endurance to finish and the same endurance recovery says that'll take the same amount of time to accumulate. If the DPE guy's DPS is so low that he never runs out of endurance during the fight, the DPS guy is guaranteed to finish faster even if he runs out of endurance.
The only Hasten factor that's ignoring is the cost of Hasten itself, which is equivalent to running a cheap toggle (just broken up differently). If the claim is that the cost of Hasten itself causes the need for Stamina, it might have merit; the implication I usually get from these claims of the evils of Hasten is that the recharge bonus is to blame, which is blatantly false. I'm not even convinced that the cost of Hasten isn't paid back by things like:
Being able to adjust your attack chain to let a higher-DPE attack make up a larger percentage of your damage
Being able to turn off defensive toggles earlier because your higher DPS made you defeat enemies faster
Being able to use endurance-recovering powers more often (Consume, Dark Consumption, Stygian Circle, Conserve Power, Power Sink, Accelerate Metabolism, etc..)
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The blaster motto has always been "Kill it fast or die fast." This allows the "Kill it fast" to be faster.
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Heh...I would say it allows the motto to be "Kill it fast AND die fast."
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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And don't worry about us level 50s. We'll just find another game to tinker with until the dev team decides to wake up over there and get a clue. I enjoyed that whole, "...sidekicking with 50s will give the sidekick extra XP..." like it has anything to do with end game content. That's helping the lower levels, not the level 50s. Again. Genius. /sarcasm
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I don't think that's all he has planned for us. That's just an idea he stole from EQ II. But since EQ II stole exemplaring in the first place it's ok.
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Hm. So, does the XP boost of an exemplar change marginally or radically depending
on the level difference?
It's actually kind of a nifty idea, that your higher level (40, 50, whatever) translates
into "better teaching" for your buddy.
So now when some noob says "PL me plz!" you say "Ok, I'll exemplar to you,
we'll do your missions, and you'll level X % faster than if you duo'ed with any
hero your own level, plus build up your contacts."
Not bad.
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I've said this in other threads, but it's actually Hasten that causes the need for Stamina in most builds. I really don't think people really comprehend the massive amount of endurance you chew through with Perma Hasten.
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No, it's freakin' not.
Hasten doesn't do anything to your DPE; all it does is increase your DPS. DPE is what really determines whether you'll be running out of endurance during the fight or not. The only way Hasten hurts your endurance consumption is that you lose the slight amount of endurance you would have recovered during the extra time you spent on the fight because your DPS sucked without Hasten--and heck, if you really need that extra endurance to finish the fight, you can sit there not attacking for the amount of time you need to recover that endurance. If you've got the same DPE and endurance recovery as the guy without Hasten, you'll STILL finish the fight before him even though you ran out of endurance, because the same DPE says it'll take you both the same amount of endurance to finish and the same endurance recovery says that'll take the same amount of time to accumulate. If the DPE guy's DPS is so low that he never runs out of endurance during the fight, the DPS guy is guaranteed to finish faster even if he runs out of endurance.
The only Hasten factor that's ignoring is the cost of Hasten itself, which is equivalent to running a cheap toggle (just broken up differently). If the claim is that the cost of Hasten itself causes the need for Stamina, it might have merit; the implication I usually get from these claims of the evils of Hasten is that the recharge bonus is to blame, which is blatantly false. I'm not even convinced that the cost of Hasten isn't paid back by things like:
Being able to adjust your attack chain to let a higher-DPE attack make up a larger percentage of your damage
Being able to turn off defensive toggles earlier because your higher DPS made you defeat enemies faster
Being able to use endurance-recovering powers more often (Consume, Dark Consumption, Stygian Circle, Conserve Power, Power Sink, Accelerate Metabolism, etc..)
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I think what they meant was that with perma hasten, or just hasten at all, you don't have a hastened endurance regen, causing you to run out of endurance faster than without hasten, because you are using your other powers (Which drain endurance) more often.
Xarybdis | Level 50 Invul/Axe Tanker & Cygnia Level 50 DB/Will Brute on Triumph | AstroGal Level 50 WS on Virtue
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Oh goodness, the rest of it's true then? So you really intend to weaken every set that can handle Invincible solo missions with ease?
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Aw crap.. does this mean you have been reading the thread?!
AIIIIEEEEEE!!!!
::Promptly runs into the same tree as before::
>^x.x^<
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Rolls eyes...
That's ok, keep up the good work on the *huge* amount of nerfs that must be coming (since almost everyone I know solos on invincible) while at the same time ignoring the outcry for level 50 content that has been going on since Issue 1.
Why are they concentrating so heavily on balance and their little idea of "fun" when it is obvious (to anyone that really does read the forums) that so many people feel there is a huge void when you get to level 50?
I don't know anyone that *isn't* having fun. If this game wasn't fun for them, they would leave. So please stop jerking us around and telling us nerfs are so we can have fun. Fun... "is working as intended." People are paying to play this game... they are having fun. So adjusting what they enjoy instead of adding to it is a big mistake IMO. Nerfing everyone that can solo invincible easily while continually ignoring their requests for more content is not going to convince a lot of people to stick around. And really... why should they? I have a ton of "fun" soloing my invincible missions, especially after 32 levels of begging for teams. Makes me proud of the hard work I put into the character. But go ahead and nerf us all so we can work up to the higher levels, only to have to always ask people for help or play on heroic and level slow as mud.
"You're the sun and the moon to me..."
My Antiquated Earth/Storm Controller Guide!
@KokopelliJoe
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Aw crap.. does this mean you have been reading the thread?!
AIIIIEEEEEE!!!!
::Promptly runs into the same tree as before::
>^x.x^<
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Do you prefer regular or velvet ropes?
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And don't worry about us level 50s. We'll just find another game to tinker with until the dev team decides to wake up over there and get a clue. I enjoyed that whole, "...sidekicking with 50s will give the sidekick extra XP..." like it has anything to do with end game content. That's helping the lower levels, not the level 50s. Again. Genius. /sarcasm
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I don't think that's all he has planned for us. That's just an idea he stole from EQ II. But since EQ II stole exemplaring in the first place it's ok.
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Hm. So, does the XP boost of an exemplar change marginally or radically depending
on the level difference?
It's actually kind of a nifty idea, that your higher level (40, 50, whatever) translates
into "better teaching" for your buddy.
So now when some noob says "PL me plz!" you say "Ok, I'll exemplar to you,
we'll do your missions, and you'll level X % faster than if you duo'ed with any
hero your own level, plus build up your contacts."
Not bad.
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The way EQII does it is the more high-level buddies you have, the higher the exp boost you get. It can get rather extreme. It's designed so that guilds with casual players can get them up quickly if the rest of the guilds outlevels them. Since raids occur from the late teens in EQ II, mentoring (that's what they call it) has usefulness beyond simply power-leveling.
This is all academic, of course, since States said they aren't doing it.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Any future plans for 50 content? At all? I mean, having a lot of content between 20 and 35 is great and all... but we're going to outgrow that quick at the rate you guys keep adding it in. We're all going to hit 50 eventually. Before no one has slots left for new characters, we're going to need something to do at 50... Take a poll guys, seriously. (P.S. CoV is not an answer)
Personally, after reading most of the thread, I'm not going to freak out about what people have said about what a guy said about what Statesman had said. Wait until some of this goes up on test, then throw a fit if you want. Not now.
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Any future plans for 50 content? At all? I mean, having a lot of content between 20 and 35 is great and all... but we're going to outgrow that quick at the rate you guys keep adding it in. We're all going to hit 50 eventually. Before no one has slots left for new characters, we're going to need something to do at 50... Take a poll guys, seriously. (P.S. CoV is not an answer)
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Yes, we're working on 50 level only content.
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Yes, we're working on 50 level only content.
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Guess some people didn't pick that up from the reason that HO's were nerfed... 
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Any future plans for 50 content? At all? I mean, having a lot of content between 20 and 35 is great and all... but we're going to outgrow that quick at the rate you guys keep adding it in. We're all going to hit 50 eventually. Before no one has slots left for new characters, we're going to need something to do at 50... Take a poll guys, seriously. (P.S. CoV is not an answer)
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Yes, we're working on 50 level only content.
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No more Hami raids!
I suggest repelling a giant invasion. That was fun last time. 
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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This is reassuring. Perhaps have a seminar and take a look at that Suggestion forum? There are tons of awesome ideas floating about there that you could at least acknowledge or consider, States. Powersets and all that good stuff are in there. Take a look. Please?
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The post 50s blues: Mr. Emmert mentioned several different possibilities for post the 50s game. Going back and doing missions with a sidekick so that the sidekick gets more xp.
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Just to clarify: I didn't say this. No plans.
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Oh goodness, the rest of it's true then? So you really intend to weaken every set that can handle Invincible solo missions with ease?
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Hopefully, States will post tonight about just what their plans are. They really need to at this point.
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I wouldn't mind seeing the stores go away at all, especially if they were replaced by something like the 'Mission Stores' in Brickstown and Founders.
Mutant-girl Penny, Time Travelling Mad Scientist guy, Robot Guy, Serafina the Genie, and Agent Six all want you to do missions for them before opening their stores.
EXTEND THIS! This is a wonderful concept! I enjoyed those missions so much! Go ahead and scrap the stores and replace them all with missions like this!
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I think that's a good idea... My main problem is that these guys are standing around all day. Put them indoors. It would certainly enhance immersion if we had to visit them in their lab, apartment or shop.
As for increasing the "challenge" above 30, I'm willing to give it a try. I can accept that villains get tougher to counter the threat of a stronger hero. However, I also expect to feel that my hero is getting stronger. I like the fact that my 40+ hero can jump into a decent sized group of villains and take them out. My hero in the early levels couldn't handle anything anywhere near that. A lone boss back then was a serious challenge. I see that as growth. It feels like my hero has made progress.
If difficulty is going to be increased it shouldn't be by reducing the effectiveness of heroes. Nor should it necessarily be by simply making existing villains inordinately stronger. Perhaps certain villains can have more resources at their disposal and introduce more elite bosses.
I also recommend new techniques for defeating bosses be introduced. Use the technique used in so many games of old. You have to observe what the villain does and find his weak spot, like a giant robot which leaves some vital component exposed as he's charging up for a big attack. Perhaps there's a villain that can only be hurt from behind, or only when he's knocked down. Simultaneously deactivating devices is one step, but it isn't dynamic enough, and this shouldn't necessarily require a group of heroes. Either that, or villain AI is improved so that they're more responsive to what heroes are doing.
This is the kind of challenge I'd like to see. Simply giving villains more HPs and having the do more damage doesn't seem to be the right solution. At least it isn't the most enjoyable one.