Devs response to the WLers?

Casual_Player · 02-09-2005 04:23 PM

[ QUOTE ]

But im going to assume here that the Devs intentions were NOT to allow new players to lev up 20 levels in 2 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

And we all know what happens when you assume, right?

Statesmonkey Sez: Lighten up! It's a game, for Lincoln's sake!
Also: Six years of casual play begins to look an awful lot like one year of hardcore play.

Pilcrow · 02-09-2005 04:26 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Uh...im not a noob cause ive been playing since beta. Thats how I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've been playing since beta and you haven't yet come up with a strategy for handling a teammate who plays poorly?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with other people's learning curves and a little more concerned with your own.

NuclearToast · 02-09-2005 04:27 PM

SuperSean wrote:

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

That being said, I'd love to get the devs-eye view on the Winter event, what went as they expected, what surprised them, etc. Not as any kind of apology or explanation, certainly not because I think it was a failure, just because I think it would be very interesting to get their opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll second this motion. It would be cool to know IMHO, but thats because I love "behind the scenes" kind of deals anyway.

[/ QUOTE ]

Maybe the "behind the scenes" commentary and outtakes will be on the next DVD version of the game.

<grin>

--NT

They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!

If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 04:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uh...im not a noob cause ive been playing since beta. Thats how I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've been playing since beta and you haven't yet come up with a strategy for handling a teammate who plays poorly?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with other people's learning curves and a little more concerned with your own.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes no sense. Im sorry but deaths by n00bs doesnt reflect a persons skills whatsoever.

If n00b goes into my group, aggroes a bunch 5 levels above the rest of us and gets us all killed...im a bad player?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with this post and more concerned with making an insightfull comment

Ailbe33 · 02-09-2005 04:35 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Example: WLed N0ob runs into a mob and tps us all in- after aggroing 10 groups along the way. We tell him not to do that. this is followed by lots of cursing and a quit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever had the Teleport other power? It is a power that can be interrupted very easily. I find it highly doubtful that this "hypothetical" situation you describe could ever happen. I sincerely doubt you got any debt at all from this situation you gave us. No "noob" would have the defense necessary to stand in a group of mobs and teleport an entire team to him.

Other than that, yes some people used WL to get characters into their mid twenties and don't have a single clue. However, I know of 2 people who have been playing since the game went live, and still have no freakin clue how to play. You blame WL when you should be blaming stupid people. For some, WL was a chance to experience some new template they would never have tried before. For others WL was a chance to continue their stupid behavior with illogical builds that couldn't possibly survive on their own.

The solution to your complaint is easy. Learn how to identify idiots quicker and stop grouping with them. There is no need for Devs to give you an apology because you grouped with incompetent people.

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 04:38 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Example: WLed N0ob runs into a mob and tps us all in- after aggroing 10 groups along the way. We tell him not to do that. this is followed by lots of cursing and a quit.

[/ QUOTE ]

Have you ever had the Teleport other power? It is a power that can be interrupted very easily. I find it highly doubtful that this "hypothetical" situation you describe could ever happen. I sincerely doubt you got any debt at all from this situation you gave us. No "noob" would have the defense necessary to stand in a group of mobs and teleport an entire team to him.

Other than that, yes some people used WL to get characters into their mid twenties and don't have a single clue. However, I know of 2 people who have been playing since the game went live, and still have no freakin clue how to play. You blame WL when you should be blaming stupid people. For some, WL was a chance to experience some new template they would never have tried before. For others WL was a chance to continue their stupid behavior with illogical builds that couldn't possibly survive on their own.

The solution to your complaint is easy. Learn how to identify idiots quicker and stop grouping with them. There is no need for Devs to give you an apology because you grouped with incompetent people.

[/ QUOTE ]

However, most people who reach 20s on their own without WL arent incompetant anymore- therefore it shoulnt even be an issue.

As for that particular instance, must have had an Invisibility buff on- all i know is i got the 5k debt to prove it

Raiya · 02-09-2005 04:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now that the WL is finally gone, I look back and think-

"What do the Devs think about all the issues it caused?"

I havent seen a post by the Devs discussing its impact or admitting its failure.

So what do they have to say about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing to discuss. Do a search and you'll see it's been discussed to death.

Don't know what you mean by "admitting its failure" unless you're just wanting to put words in their mouths. I don't really see what failed. Some liked it and some didn't. So what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not doubting that some people didnt like it. Im sure the n00bs LOVED it.

But im going to assume here that the Devs intentions were NOT to allow new players to lev up 20 levels in 2 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what's so ridiculous about your post. You're assuming what the devs wanted to do. Yet you're wanting them to admit failure based upon your assumption of how things were supposed to be.

I think the best course of action would be to drop the issue and just play the game.

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 05:00 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now that the WL is finally gone, I look back and think-

"What do the Devs think about all the issues it caused?"

I havent seen a post by the Devs discussing its impact or admitting its failure.

So what do they have to say about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing to discuss. Do a search and you'll see it's been discussed to death.

Don't know what you mean by "admitting its failure" unless you're just wanting to put words in their mouths. I don't really see what failed. Some liked it and some didn't. So what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not doubting that some people didnt like it. Im sure the n00bs LOVED it.

But im going to assume here that the Devs intentions were NOT to allow new players to lev up 20 levels in 2 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what's so ridiculous about your post. You're assuming what the devs wanted to do. Yet you're wanting them to admit failure based upon your assumption of how things were supposed to be.

I think the best course of action would be to drop the issue and just play the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again this is an illogical argument-

if I said something like "im assuming that the Devs didnt want us to even ATTACK them in the first place" then yes, i should be yelled at.

But i said that im assuming that they did not expect people to basically use this event as a way to skip 20 levels.

Thats not a farfetched assumption.

BBhumeBB · 02-09-2005 05:20 PM

Maybe they disagree with the notion that it was a failure. Just a thought.

My scrapper doesn't need an AoE. She IS an AoE.

Rooftop_Raider · 02-09-2005 05:31 PM

Well I think it was a clear success, and the people who made it to 20 just doing the WL's will still learn sooner or later how to play.

We had WL hunting for 2 weeks. The game has been out for almost a year. Boo hoo if an extremely tiny fraction of the populace got great XP that way, when we've had the entire live history of Wolves and an entire issue's-worth of blinky exploiting. That somehow the WL was a significant event in the powerlevling/exploit history of this game is ludicrous.

Bruthaman · 02-09-2005 05:40 PM

Rad let it go and move on. Life is too short and this is a game fer cryin' out loud. Brawl I'll team up with you any time. Good attitude.

I'm only laughing on the outside
My smile is just skin deep
If you could see inside, I'm really crying
You might join me for a weep

My Roster

Pilcrow · 02-09-2005 05:49 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Uh...im not a noob cause ive been playing since beta. Thats how I know.

[/ QUOTE ]

You've been playing since beta and you haven't yet come up with a strategy for handling a teammate who plays poorly?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with other people's learning curves and a little more concerned with your own.

[/ QUOTE ]

That makes no sense. Im sorry but deaths by n00bs doesnt reflect a persons skills whatsoever.

If n00b goes into my group, aggroes a bunch 5 levels above the rest of us and gets us all killed...im a bad player?

Maybe you should be a little less concerned with this post and more concerned with making an insightfull comment

[/ QUOTE ]

I did, your inability to comprehend it is evidence of where the real problem lies.

Cobaltix · 02-09-2005 05:52 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Now that the WL is finally gone, I look back and think-

"What do the Devs think about all the issues it caused?"

I havent seen a post by the Devs discussing its impact or admitting its failure.

So what do they have to say about it?

[/ QUOTE ]

There's nothing to discuss. Do a search and you'll see it's been discussed to death.

Don't know what you mean by "admitting its failure" unless you're just wanting to put words in their mouths. I don't really see what failed. Some liked it and some didn't. So what.

[/ QUOTE ]

Im not doubting that some people didnt like it. Im sure the n00bs LOVED it.

But im going to assume here that the Devs intentions were NOT to allow new players to lev up 20 levels in 2 days.

[/ QUOTE ]

That's what's so ridiculous about your post. You're assuming what the devs wanted to do. Yet you're wanting them to admit failure based upon your assumption of how things were supposed to be.

I think the best course of action would be to drop the issue and just play the game.

[/ QUOTE ]

Again this is an illogical argument-

if I said something like "im assuming that the Devs didnt want us to even ATTACK them in the first place" then yes, i should be yelled at.

But i said that im assuming that they did not expect people to basically use this event as a way to skip 20 levels.

Thats not a farfetched assumption.

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually believe it is indeed a farfetched assumption. Correct me if I'm wrong here but, weren't the Winter Lords on the Test Server before going live? Regardless of that or not, the Dev team left the WL in place on Live for 2 WEEKS! After 24-72 hours of this event, the Dev Team knew EXACTLY the result of the event.

Call it a gift my friend and move on. Call it a ploy to draw players away from WoW or another MMO and move on. Call it whatever you want but the fact is, you are responsible for accepting the team invite without first checking out who your teammates were and your negligence continued after you joined the team by not looking at bio's and Badges or asking questions. If you aren't willing to accept your part in your gaining debt (which we ALL get at some point or another) then there will be no reasoning with you.

Sign It : http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes

moore · 02-09-2005 05:57 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
do you want a hand written apology? maybe a bouqet of flowers? the new people will learn, just as you did. if they lack experience, tell them what to do, give them tips.

[/ QUOTE ]

An apology would be nice yes.

If youd know what the mid-lev characters are dealing with when they invite tanks who think that the controller should take the aggro, youd understand too.

They will learn yes. But it shoulnt be at mine or other hard working heros' expense.

[/ QUOTE ]

what expense? debt? pffft.

the game isnt that hard folks, I dont think it has anything to do with WLs, some people just play without getting all anal about death. I die once a play session, but I'm always out of debt before I quit playing that day. (L33 blaster)

doesnt affect me at all....

AmsterdamHeavy · 02-09-2005 06:02 PM

Go Hunt. Kill Skuls.

I'm still not digging ED.

50 spines/regen
50 nrg/nrg/force
37 emp/rad
50 stone/fire/fire
50 Peacebringer
43 bs/sr
22 fire/ta

23 sonic/sonic

joshdex · 02-09-2005 06:05 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, because before the Winter Lords we lived in a paradise where every player was a well-behaved expert.

[/ QUOTE ]

I have to say that sort of sums up my feelings on the whole issue.. Especially the *smirk* part.

I will add I think most of these problems could be resolved by actually taking time to talk to your team mates before putting your lives in their hand - something that's becoming a lost art. And it ain't due to no winter wonderlord.

JAD

Still hate the visit Winscott mission- make it dropable, have it give actual exp or remove it altogether. PS- Down knows who you are.
J/ Wilde/ / AIL - Celebrating five years!

FashionSense · 02-09-2005 06:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]

That being said, I'd love to get the devs-eye view on the Winter event, what went as they expected, what surprised them, etc. Not as any kind of apology or explanation, certainly not because I think it was a failure, just because I think it would be very interesting to get their opinions.

[/ QUOTE ]

I would also second this. I don't understand what was intended and why things played out the way they did.

The first thing that happened was giant monsters con purple regardless of level (but are by no means equal difficulty regardless of level) and their XP became the same for all levels regardless of monster level vs. player level. This means that for a 50, killing a lv50 monster is difficult and gives terrible xp. For a 50, killing a lv5 monster is easy but still gives terrible xp. But for a lv1, killing a lv5 monster or having a 50 kill that monster for him is the JACKPOT. Initially, one giant monster kill brought a lv1 to lv8.

The only possible interpretation is that this was a bug / mistake, as it destroys risk vs reward for both a 50 (who can't get worthwhile xp for beating very difficult opponents) and for a 1 (who can get multiple levels per kill).

But the patch was to cap xp gain from one kill at half a level. Not even half a bar...half a *level*. This doesn't fix anything for a lv50 (killing monsters is still a complete waste of time xp-wise) and arguably doesn't fix much for low levels as the flood of WL leveling demonstrated.

It doesn't make sense. Either the devs intended WLs as a means of rapid advancement but didn't test the rapid advancement and accidentally made it a little too rapid at first, or the devs didn't intend it that way at all and totally failed to fix their error.

DrZeus · 02-09-2005 08:32 PM

Well, I say to even ask for an apology is incredibly arrogant. It's arrogant to assume that your opinion rules the rest and that you deserve an apology because your playtime hasn't been ideal.

On the other hand, I would also be curious to find out if the devs had anticipated the events that transpired, and what their opinion of them was.

I think they planned a fun event, but I can't even guess at whether or not they anticipated the effect it would have on the game (short term affect I'll agree... but an affect nonetheless). I don't think they'd consider it either a success or a failure... but they each probably have some opinion as to if they'd do it slightly differently had they a choice to go back and do so.

Zeus - god of wondering

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 08:40 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Well, I say to even ask for an apology is incredibly arrogant. It's arrogant to assume that your opinion rules the rest and that you deserve an apology because your playtime hasn't been ideal.

On the other hand, I would also be curious to find out if the devs had anticipated the events that transpired, and what their opinion of them was.

I think they planned a fun event, but I can't even guess at whether or not they anticipated the effect it would have on the game (short term affect I'll agree... but an affect nonetheless). I don't think they'd consider it either a success or a failure... but they each probably have some opinion as to if they'd do it slightly differently had they a choice to go back and do so.

Zeus - god of wondering

[/ QUOTE ]

Geez man- I NEVER said that my opinion rules the rest, nor did I imply that- its my personal feeling.

Having to deal with Wlers all day is annoying many many many heros (especially in the 20-30 range). YES there are exceptions and not everyone has a problem. YES not all these noobs are overconfident and should be helped.

But at the same time, YES the WL gave out way too much XP, and with the constant spawning, well, we all know what happened.

I think the arrogance that you speak of falls right back on you for thinking that since your alright, its not a problem.

xAKUMAx · 02-09-2005 08:44 PM

OP quit whining, there will be noobs no matter what level you are. I apologize ahead of time that everyone can not meet your impeccable level of gameplay. How dare they try and compare to your flawless style.

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 08:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
OP quit whining, there will be noobs no matter what level you are. I apologize ahead of time that everyone can not meet your impeccable level of gameplay. How dare they try and compare to your flawless style.

[/ QUOTE ]

Noobs arent noobs by the time they get to lev 25. People at 25 know their build and how they want to grow. Thats just common sense.

Theres no bragging here. Thats a stupid comment im sorry. I dont have a flawless style. But i dont have a "hey guys 10 levels above us are there let me aggro them we can take them" attitude eather.

Nowhere do I proclaim how great a player I am becuase i dont consider myself to be one. But dealing with all these noobs AT LEV 20+ (not lev 5) is madness.

xAKUMAx · 02-09-2005 08:58 PM

[ QUOTE ]
But i dont have a "hey guys 10 levels above us are there let me aggro them we can take them" attitude eather.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this has never happened to you except after WL's then your luck was bound to wear off eventually.

RadJad56 · 02-09-2005 09:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
But i dont have a "hey guys 10 levels above us are there let me aggro them we can take them" attitude eather.

[/ QUOTE ]

If this has never happened to you except after WL's then your luck was bound to wear off eventually.

[/ QUOTE ]

Of course its happened before.

But not this many times, especially not in such a short time frame.

SwellGuy · 02-09-2005 09:19 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Man, they can't make ANYONE happy, can they?

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm happy.

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.

SwellGuy · 02-09-2005 09:21 PM

[ QUOTE ]

An apology would be nice yes.

If youd know what the mid-lev characters are dealing with when they invite tanks who think that the controller should take the aggro, youd understand too.

They will learn yes. But it shoulnt be at mine or other hard working heros' expense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Are those your actual "mains" you've listed in your signature?

total kick to the gut

This is like having Ra's Al Ghul show up at your birthday party.