Add a long timer and drop other negative effects.
The full drop is way too heavy, really. Wow...tried it several times on test with my 33 inv/ss, all the combos I could think of, and even with stamina and unstoppable running everything drops.
Toggle drop = death.
I didn't see the disorient as a 'useless' downside, personally. Back with just unyeilding stance (pre i3), and now with unyeilding, I've still had a Freak smasher stun me during the Rage disorient drop. At least I had endurance then, and the new inspirations you can use while disoriented are great!
I'm not sure what to suggest, but if you devs feel the disorient is too easily circumvented, I would have to say a post rage end drop is a decent idea, just not ALL our endurance, considering we are quite likely still in the thick of it when rage ends.
Or, it has to last long enough to carry us through even long fights, like AV fights. Think about it: I never intended perma-rage (I dislike relying on 'modifiers' to be effective; personal play style makes me feel they are too much of a crutch), but like to save rage for the tough guys, where I need to break out the big guns. I.e., +2 con or higher lts, or any boss post-i3, or, of course, AVs.
(btw, new invincibility feels good. Still getting hit more than in i2, with 2 def buffs slotted, but it really feels like it's noticably working, and against ranged as well as melee...no big team test, but against +1 con Crey Patrol, about 8 of them, it felt just right, taking hits, but nothing I couldn't handle)
The problem with this proposed change is that it is out of balance with the rest of the game. I just glanced over a list of every power in the game and found that there are only a handful that drain 100% end. In every case, powers with this sort of penalty were either a 9th tier uber nuke power or a 9th tier uber defense power. No other powers in the game drain end like that, and unless I missed one, no other power has a disorient penalty like Rage in its current state either. Adrenaline Boost (also a 9th tier power) used to have a disorient but it was removed completely, and that wasn't the sort of power that you used in the middle of combat anyway.
"Perma" Rage provides an 80% damage boost and I believe a 25% Acc boost 100% of the time with a stun or chance of stun every two minutes. That won't even get a fully slotted power to the damage cap, and is roughly equivalent to hitting three store-bought damage inspirations and one accuracy. Build Up fully slotted with recharge provides +100% damage and +50% accuracy roughly 50% of the time, with no penalties at all.
Assuming that the damage output of Super Strength is comparable to the other Tanker sets (which is debatable), is Rage really that much better than Build Up that it deserves a penalty equivalent to a 9th tier nuke? Frankly, even the disorient penalty is too severe when compared to the rest of the powers in the game.
Dwimble
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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While you're fixing things... I don't think it's quite fair that bad guys can hit my character with baseball bats while hardcore players with hover can just float in the air and avoid this penalty. Therefore I think you should change hover so that it's a click power which causes the user to catch on fire at the end of two minutes. Or maybe change baseball bats so that they have infinite range. 
--dkm
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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So having Uyielding is Hardcore now?!?!?! I NEVER had perma-Unstop, and as it is now I'm only one "stun" effect away from death... I'd say theres still a great deal of risk, especially considering how much debt I've wracked up in the last few days. Lets think about one thing: how many power sets create their oun status effects (at least as frequently as Invuln/SS)? I have become my own worst enemy and people hate to wait after EVERY fight for me to unstun (old Rage), or rest (a prediction for new Rage).
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While you're fixing things... I don't think it's quite fair that bad guys can hit my character with baseball bats while hardcore players with hover can just float in the air and avoid this penalty. Therefore I think you should change hover so that it's a click power which causes the user to catch on fire at the end of two minutes. Or maybe change baseball bats so that they have infinite range.
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BEST post ever!
One option to all of the Perma whatever issues is to just make the powers unstackable. In other words you can't fire off Unstoppable/Rage/whatever else until the last one has run out and you have suffered the End of Power effects. Then you can design the End of Power effects to be whatever you think is appropriate without worrying about them only effecting some people.
Stun/0 End is a very harsh penalty for any power especially for Melees. But that doesn't mean that they can't be forced to learn how to time it if that is the decision.
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You can't please everyone, so lets concentrate on me.
Here's a good penalty, I feel: Set endurance regen to 0 or near 0 for like 30 seconds. That might not seem like much, but do a lab mission and destroy one of the reactors that does the end regen debuff and try to fight, you still can, but not much. While I like this, I also like a straight endurance penalty (-50 endurance, for example, which lets toggles stay) or a slow effect. They're much more elegant than a toggle dropper, especially when I consider Rage no more unbalancing then build up in some respects.
In my mind Super Strength PLUS Perma Rage puts us on even ground with Energy Melee, Axe, etc. Take Rage away and SS'ers are now at a disadvantage. 
If Rage must be "tweaked" then I have to say the idea Day_Dreamer has of making it a Toggle has promise:
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A penalty to defense throughout the use of Rage (which could then conceivably become a toggle, though it could just as likely stay a click) would be very characterful (berserk offense at the expense of defense) and introduce an element of strategy in the power's use, though a defense penalty may be too easy to mitigate in many circumstances for some Tanker primaries
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Dev's please make a wise decision that keeps true to the concept of Super Strength while maintaining the FUN FACTOR as well. Do not stick with this endurance crash solution on test. It is a flawed system IMO.
QF
I have a feeling that they will continue the trend of helping out tanks, by combining both the mag 10 stun and and the end drop. That ought to screw up the power just right.
Come on devs, art guys, where is my Maid costume for my characters! 5 years now, its a simple request.
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless.
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Unless mitigated by a power, yes. If mitigated by one of the status protection powers, then you avoid the disorient unless you get hit by another disorient effect during the Rage disorient's duration.
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At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect.
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There is no more perma-Unstoppable. I'm amused by the idea that anybody who takes Unyielding is now officially considered a "hardcore player" by the dev team. I'd be interested in seeing what percentage of invulnerability tankers do not take Unyielding; I imagine the number is pretty small. Particularly since the only other viable invulnerability build, perma-unstoppable, was officially squashed in I3.
BTW, invulnerability tankers are not the only ones capable of mitigating Rage's penalty. All the other tanker primaries have mobile status protection, too.
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Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty.
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So the toggle drop and quickly following death is a "desired penalty" and not enough "hardcore players" were getting debt from it? Good to know that's how you feel. Are there any other powers that you feel should have a high chance of debt as a "desired penalty"?
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It is very unfortunate that further power tuning is occurring after the respec, particuarly build-shaking tuning.
Can we expect further free respecs, perhaps given only to those whose powers are fundamentally altered?
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I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I know I'm not the only one who's been caught off guard by this unanounced change, after having already spent my respec under the impression that things were not going to change further. If this goes to the Live servers "as is" it will be dissapointing to say the least. 
QF
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I'm amused by the idea that anybody who takes Unyielding is now officially considered a "hardcore player" by the dev team.
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Uy is basically mandatory. It has status protection and resists, these are key to tanking. Also only Uy and Unstop have any toxic resist at all for Invuln. I know all Tanker primaries have some status protection as well. Uy will definately be picked up the majority of casual and "hardcore" gamers alike. It is too useful to ignore.
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Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty.
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This is the problem again. Uy will prevent the stun from harming you unless you get another stun. This would often require a teammate's buff or, if soloing, you would have to take breaks. At 46 there are so many status mobs Rage is hard to use, but also rewarding if you are willing to accept it's risks. You cannot even get it till 28 anyway. So by then the casual gamer will have learned a lot about status protection and how to adjust their tactics.
Forgive me for not reading the thread completely, so if this has already been mentioned, i apologize.
As a fire/fire blaster, I didn't have but 2 toggles until the Fire Power Pool was avalible. Now I have 3. Hover, Stealth, and Fire Shield. These drain me fairly well, even with 6 slotted stamina. Now that I've incorperated Fire Shield into the mix, it's managible with it 2 slotted with end drain and 4 armor buffs.
I'd be hard pressed to survive if these toggles were to drop, especially the way I play. But, when you factor in hasten and it's average end drain when the power wears off, and you become super end concious after about a minute and a half.
This is the perspective I'm coming from.
I think that perhaps an end drain for 75% after Rage wears off would be sufficent. I've rolled tanks before, some all the way up to lvl 15, and the amount of toggles they rely on can be astronomical, and when more armors become stackible, it'll be off the chart. Toggles drop, heroes are sent to the hospital. My suggestion is 75% on wear off, and allow the Tanks to at least keep themselves alive to save the rest of their team. I always thought they were more heroic than my blaster anyway.
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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Option 1) (programmatic nightmare I am sure) How about a 10 second freeze. Toggles stay up, regens stop (health and end), nothing is clickable, and you can't move.
Option 2) (easier) Double the end drop of Hasten, but make rage a comination of hasten (minus the def buff) + existing rage. Increase the recharge on it (maybe double it).
When I am raging I should fight faster too dontcha think? Then, if I zero out my endurance at the end, it was because I wasn't paying attention and really giving it my all.
Rage as it is on live is liveable. I wouldn't take Rage as it is on Dev, because in a team, raged or otherwise, my DPS contribution is negligable really. Just busy work for me.
I am all for making player slot a power based on their planned usage of it, and gaining diversity this way. Some will slot it like hasten for perma, though it would have a significant end suck. others would slot it for to hit and endredux so that they could use it more positively.
If people want to use rage + hasten, they will be burning through an INCREDIBLE amount of endurance in short order.
Balance through BUFFS!
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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Just out of curiousity, do you not wish there to BE "hardcore" players? Should people not strive to come up with ways to do their best?
I must say, I really don't care for the direction this game is taking.
Thoughts from someone who has never used Rage until recently.
I have never used Unstoppable as Perma, and did not have Rage until the Holiday Respec when I added it in after hearing/reading all about it in the MB's.
Like Unstoppable I see Rage as a situational power. When you need that extra boost. Example, I was on a team last night fighting the Envoy of Shadows, I was the only melee in the group and no matter what couldn't seem to get him below 25% health for about 5 minutes (including him running from me at 4 different times). So I took the chance and popped both Unstoppable and Rage .. and a minute later with great help fom my team, we had the AV beaten and I was awaiting my Unstoppable Crash.
Should there be a downside, probably.
I have died more to high mag stuns turning off my toggles than anything else. Occassionally something or a mass-group would overwhelm me, but that was rare.
Now the suggested change of the 2 top powers of my primary/secondary sets 1) Give me a heart attack and do more damage than any villian (except for maybe a psionic) could and 2) Drain my endurance to nothing, for powers 8 and 9 in my own sets.
I already even with Endurance Reductions on my attacks and a 6 slotted Stamina regularly run out of Endurance all too often, and now something that will drian my endurance to nothing? Isn't that the job of the Malta Sappers, not my own abilities?
I can't protect my own group when I have nothing left (endurance), I can't punch-voke or Taunt to turn them away from the Defenders and Contollers.
Should there be a downside ... maybe.
Longer recharge so it can't be Perma'ed. Slight Endurance drop when the Rage wears off to simulate being tired? That depends is this because of game balance or because in comics when you use everything you are exhausted afterwards.
As with other games (online or trabletop), reality and game balance rarely have anything in common.
Maybe the power needs a name change. Adrenaline, Fury, Anger, or something.
The animations for Super Strength are slower than Blasters as a whole so making it like Buildup would need a longer time for it to be active. Stuns and Disorients are not good, but why does it need one?
Is Rage needed to make SS up to the other Tanker Secondaries, if it is then it should have no drawbacks.
Stone hits hard as hell,
Energy has high chance of stuns
Fire is DoT
Ice is Slows (ok .. this may be gimped too)
SS is just one time damage and knockdowns.
Maybe make SS have untyped damage as a secondary, to
simulate the extra "Super Strength" can hit for.
Knockdowns don't last all that long. I have a 35 ++ Hold SO on my Knockout Blow and it seems like little to nothing, what maybe 3 to 6 seconds? How about a real hold on it like 20 to 25, any controlller can do far longer holds.
So what is wrong with Rage?
Main Characters - Virtue:
Manowar - Inv/SS/Pyre Incarnate Tanker
Mr Edward Hyde - SS/Inv/Scirocco Incarnate Brute
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However the slow recharges is the best penalty I've heard yet since AFAIK this cannot be mitigated in game by anything. Any endurance based penalty can be mitigated by a decent Emapthy defender or even some blue pills or unstoppable. Any stun based penalty can be mitigated by the basic defense powers or a good empathy defender or disciplines. But slow recharge ... I guess a radiation defender has a minor fix for this ... but there's no innate tanker powers or inspirations that will solve the problem ... which makes it the perfect "penalty". It wont kill the tanker but it will slow them down.
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Also the Kinetics power "Speed Boost" would offer some mitigation for the recharge slowdown.
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Also the Kinetics power "Fulcrum Shift" would make the +DAM from Rage completely superfluous in many cases. I don't see how another AT's powers are relevant here - we're SUPPOSED to be helping each other and covering each other's weaknesses in ateam.
DS
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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Considering Rage isn't available until level 28, the point is kind of moot.
Given that a Tanker has taken their appropriate stun-resisting power at their respective level (Unyielding, level 8 for Invulnerability), the resists to Rage's stun should be a lot better now. But even at level 50, I'm not fully insured against Rage's stun, just one additional stun, mez or hold, and I will get disorientated. But that's the risk I take, I'm fine with that.
Using Rage as it is now is a risk for anybody, we all knew that when we took the power. I'm just wondering why people are complaining about an after effect that they KNEW they were going to get when they took the power?
It's like going to a restaurant and ordering a dish fully aware that it has something on it you don't like, but you order it anyway and then you complain to the chef about including that part about it you didn't like. So why order it in the first place?
Bad Idea Changing Rage
How does running unyielding make you a power gamer? Unyielding is a standard tank shield for an invul tanker, even more so now since you killed perma unstoppable.
I have used Rage since getting the power way back when and its current penalty more than makes up for its bonus. It allows us to deal out some good damage when it's up and when it goes down we must be ready to pay the consequence of running it. Even with unyielding up one more mag hit will stun you. So when I'm on a team fighting enemies that can hit me through the stuppor and thus stun me I don't run it or only rarely. Rage allows the SS tank to deal out some pain. If you change it to what it is on test it will be another broken power not worth taking. Please, a tank that loses all his shields and gets stunned by end loss by his own power! That is not a tank.
If you do decide to go that root you better buff up SS damage across the board to allow us SS tanks to hit for more than the piddly damage we currently do without rage running. And a massive increase in damage for the Rage effect will be necessary while it is up to sell these changes you currently have on test. Perhaps then the enemy will be defeated by the time the shields come crashing down putting the tank and the team in peril.
As it stands SS attacks on live are weak in comparison to other tanks even with Rage running so if you are serious about tweaking this power, you have a lot more work ahead of you fixing the damage and stun effects of the other SS powers, such as Knock Out Blow, footstomp, and Hand Clap.
Come on, we are billed as super strength tanks, not as love tapping wusses!
I'm going to say that I'd prefer something that didn't have a drawback that made us unable to tank. In fact, I'd prefer no drawback at all, and just have it be balanced with Buildup.
Please consider raising our base damage/endurance/recharge to compare to Axe and Energy Melee in DPS, and just give us a double length, double recharge Buildup, or even Buildup as is, and call it Rage if you want.
When I say to raise the damage/endurance/recharge, I mean make Jab have Punch's stats, Punch have Haymaker's, Haymaker have Cleave's, and Knockout Blow have Total Focus's.
This, if we had Buildup, would balance SS with the other sets.
We don't want a power that leaves us helpless-- we can't run out of combat when it wears off like a Blaster, Defender, Controller, or even a Scrapper can. Everything is attacking us.
Please try my custom mission arcs!
Legacy of a Rogue (ID 459586, Entry for Dr. Aeon's Third Challenge)
Death for Dollars! (ID 1050)
Dr. Duplicate's Dastardly Dare (ID 1218)
Win the Past, Own the Future (ID 1429)
I'd just like to see the devs stop breaking these ATs and swinging the nerfbat. I only recently started a tanker myself, but I am loathe to continue amidst all these changes -- Most of which are making this AT less and less atractive to me.
My only char aabove lv 15 is my lv 33 inv/ss tank and I've been playing since June. During the week I'm lucky to play an hour or so each night.
I guess that I'm a casual player.
I figured out on my own that unyielding stand protected against stuns. I learned to leave with being rooted and had no desire to be a teletank.
When I got rage at lv 28 I would try to hit UY right before the disorient hit. Many times i would stand around forever because I lost track of time, but I live with it and had not problems. I got used to being stunned sometimes when a mez got through UY.
Since I just recently reached lv 33 I never had perma unstop.
I did not have haste until the free respec. I put enough recharge enh's into recahge so it could be perma, but I would only trigger it right before my next fight.
I was actually happy with the I3 changes (but was happy to hear invince was still being tweaked). I could move with UY, I tweaked my build to made him better with the free respec.
Now the respec is used and the power that actually made me feel like a super strong hero is next to useless.
Now I have 2 powers that are situational, next to useless powers. At least with unstop I see the benefit of a last ditch power. i've actually used it this way when running out of end in a big fight and it has saved me. But I see no valid use for rage the way it is now.
Please leave rage in its origonal form.
Thank You
The Sad Blue Heeler
lv 33 inv/ss tank
Liberty
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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
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You and your team designed the power with a drawback that you could manage to avoid. You also made it better than the 'Build up' powers because you added that drawback.
If you are going to change Rage, just change it to Build Up, and remove the bogus penalties you added to it. Heck, Maybe I'd take it then - I haven't taken it yet because I simply don't want to be Stunned. I sure as heck won't use it if you give it an End drop - and a Drop to 0 is Sheer Madness. Is it our 'Nova'? Hardly.
Please - Stop screwing with Tanks - SS is bad enough as it is, we don't need anymore of your 'Help' Thankyouverymuch.
My memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
Also, my memory's not as sharp as it used to be.
"The tip of a shoelace is called an aglet, its true purpose is sinister." The Question
I'm assuming you are reading other threads on this issue, so I'll try not to repost what I've already said. Mez protection is available to all Tanks and fairly early. The only reason not to take it was the root in Unyielding Stance. Now that is gone, the "casual gamer" (defined as one who doesn't read the boards?) won't have any reason not to take it. By the time they get to 28, they probably will know enough to think that it will help protect against the Rage stuns.
EveryNighters:
Tar Heel Lvl 50 Inv/SS Tank
Knight of Purgatory Lvl 50 Fire/Ax Tank
Kilmainham Wall Lvl 50 Stone/Stone Tank
Re-Fridgerator Lvl 50 Ice/Ice Tank
Yankee Doodle Dandy Lvl 50 Will/Eng Tank
Teen Tar Heel Lvl 50 MA/SR Scrapper
EvilNighters:
Tar Heel Dead Lvl 50 DD Brute