Quantum_Flux

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I think other than some of the key AV fights (Tyrant, ect) their should always be a way to finnish the missions with AV without defeating them - like the Dr.Vahz or Nemesis Rex mission. And those key AVs should always be optional missions - ie you don't have to take them in order to get another mish from that contact. Obviously some AV are at the end of arcs and such but there needs to be some way to avoid these mission in the 40s.

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Exactly. One of the staples of the comic book genre is the would be hero "outsmarting" the villian or finding a "weakness" that gives him/her the upperhand in a battle they couldn't possibly hope to beat, one on one, under ordinary conditions.

I would love to see more "alternate" methods to completing missions (and still get credited with the AV's defeat) without having to resort to a slugfest. Who knows... maybe a dev may read these ideas and incorporate them into the game someday...

QF

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On a simmilar note I an archvillian in one of my missions on the "heroic" level whats an archvillin doing in a liutenat capped diffculty setting. A Boss or even a EliteBoss I understand but an ArchVillian on the lowest settiing. Shouldnt they be reserved for only trials, taskforces and the higher difficulty setting.

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I feel the same way as you. As a casual player and not an altoholic, I find myself in the post 40 game constantly hitting AV Roadblocks..... While many will tell you, grab a team or get a level 50 hero to help you out, this has drasticly impacted my "casual" playstyle. I can no longer "just log on for a couple of missions" and enjoy the GAME for what it is but rather now have to waste time putting together teams just so I can complete the mission to get access to more "new" content.

I couldn't agree more with the Elite Boss cap for the Heroic difficulty setting. Who does this hurt? Let the SG's and Teams have their AV fun and let the casual solo players have theirs.

However, there are SOME badguys, in the game, that SHOULD be AV's no matter what difficulty setting is used. Some that come to mind: Requiem, Tyrant, Nemesis, Countess Crey, Dreck, etc. These are the leaders of their respective organizations and should always be "bada$$es". And for these "rare" encounters I firmly feel team action is required, or at the very least grab a friend and go to it.

Another point I'd like to make. Some of the Post 40 AV's don't make sense at all to me.... Madame of Mystery for example. Why is she an AV again? She isn't the leader of the Carnies (won't post spoilers here) and the fact that she is one of the hardest AV's to beat down (that I have faced to date) is mind boggling, to say the least. If ever there was a badguy that deserved Elite Boss status it would be her. Many of the Praetorians really need downgrading as well. What is so amazing about Bobcat (Mynx's evil alternate) that she deserves AV status? Sometimes I question the devs decisions....

On a final note, why was the alternate dimension Adamastor a stealthed "timed" mission with no badge while Behemoth's mission was not only properly noted as needing friends but had no timer and gave the "Demon Slayer" badge. Again I really hope the dev's smooth out some of these wrinkles and make post 40 missions more consistent.

Don't get me wrong. I love this game. Looking forward to issue 4 and CoV and whatever the future brings BUT I feel the casual players are at a severe disadvantage post 40.

Flame away I guess...

QF

Edit: fixed a few minor typos etc.

Exactly how I feel Dwimble. The Endurance penalty isn't all that bad but in an extended fight it can be a toggle dropper... (fyi just slotting 1 endrdx in all my attacks and toggles helps a great deal to mitigate this) and to me that is an acceptable risk. The defense debuff isn't all that bad either. So I take a few more hits then normal, I'm a Tank so again not a real show stopper and to me this is acceptable.....

The UN-FUN part of this debacle is the 10 seconds of NAP time!! This "feature" is slowly driving me nuts and it seems to happen at the most inopportune times... *sigh*

I appreciate the work Vixen is doing, testing the latest change to this power but to be honest I could give a Flying Rikti Monkey's poop if I can hold agro durring NAP time or not... All I really CARE about is having fun and this 10 second pause is definitely nonconducive to having FUN!

QF

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Here is the main problem with the new Rage. It has nothing to do with aggro or anything else.

It is, quite simply, not fun. It's not fun to stand there totally unable to act for ten seconds every two minutes.

This is a game. People play games in order to have fun. Anything that takes away from that fun does not belong in the game.

I don't think you will find ANY tank who says that the new Rage is fun. I sure don't think it is. But in order to avoid the un-fun part of Rage, I have to give up doing decent damage, which is also un-fun.

This was the problem with the original Rage. Getting chain-mezzed because it dropped and stunned you was not fun.

The same with the second version of Rage. Losing all your End, dropping your toggles, and being chain-mezzed was not fun.

While from the perspective of debt and experience the new Rage is far superior, it still is no better than the other two. Standing there like a moron while things pound on you, unable to respond, is not fun.

Once Rage is fixed so that it is fun, as anything in a game should be, the complaints will vanish.

As it is, if we want to have fun, we're penalized for it. The message given by all this is simple. "You're a tanker. You're not supposed to do damage."

"But we're superheroes!" you say in response. "We're supposed to bring the hurt to the badguys!"

"It doesn't matter, you have a role, that of meatshield, you're not supposed to do damage and we'll make sure that if you do you're penalized for it."



It's supposed to be a game... but how is this fun?

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BINGO!
Give SablePhoenix a prize!
The latest version of RAGE is extremely UN-FUN!

Do I die using the new Rage? Not yet...

Did I die using the old Rage? Yes once in awhile the disorient of an attack would tip the balance and I would almost always die in that situation if solo....

As an Invulnerability Tank my endurance is a precious commodity. Having to deal with these limitations is TEDIOUS and mind numbing as-is but here comes RAGE 3.0 with its 25% endurance hit and increased chance of toggle drop... YIPPEE!

Rage used to be a use at your own risk power. Sometimes it would bite you in the behind but it added a little OOMPH to a weak attack set and put SS'ers in the same league as Energy Melee, etc... Now Rage is the bumbling, annoying, IRRATATING power that constantly interrupts gameplay every 2 minutes ARRGGHHH!!!

DEV's please consider making RAGE a TOGGLE power and make folks 6 slot the damn thing so that they can run it all the time. That level of investment, enhancement wise, should more then balance things. If THAT doesn't float the boat then I suggest GETTING RID OF RAGE altogether, Boosting SS base damage for all attacks by 25% and give us BUILD UP instead.

I just HATE this new version of Rage and it has completely robbed me of any sense of fun when soloing with my Tank. Sweet Jesus! It wasn't like Rage let us hit as hard as scrappers anyways.... Even if a SS Tank could hit the 400% damage cap his attacks where nowhere near as potent as a scrappers. So what gives?

What makes me angry the most about these changes, was the fact that Cryptic just started making them without so much as a warning to us players. Suddenly one day there was changes on Test.... and now its LIVE!... Rage is a fundamental power in the SS line. You just can't blind side your player base without at least giving them fair warning. At the very least talk to your players and ASK for their input. Come up with something that is mutually acceptable to both sides...

These changes to Rage should have NEVER made it to the Live servers. Until Rage is changed into a format that the majority can agree on and is FUN to use, then it should really be reverted back to RAGE 1.0 and more testing be done on the TEST SERVER .

QF
One very disgruntled player.

PS - If anyone feels the need to flame me, don't bother. I obviously wrote this post in an ANGRY state of mind. My favorite hero hasd been altered in an unacceptable and extremely UN-FUN manner and I'm at my end of my rope.... *sigh*

Sorry Dwimble... but you are really lowering your expectations if you except Rage 3.0 as long as it allows taunting.

Lets get some facts straight here:
1) SS does NOT do the same damage potential as most of the other Tanker Secondaries (Axe, Energy Melee, etc).

2) Not only do these other secondaries hit harder but *drum roll please* they also get a BUILD UP as a bonus which lets them do even MORE damage.......

So what do we get? We get our own build up power that when activated allows us to do COMPARABLE damage in comparison to Axe, Fire, etc.... which, BTW still doesn't make up for these other sets getting a build up for additional OOMPH.

Now what's the cost of Rage? You know... the power that allows us to compete damage wise with other Tanker Secondaries? Well lets see:

1) 25% endurance hit
2) Defense hit
3) 15 seconds of Inability to ATTACK!

What penalties do the other sets get, you may ask? NONE!!!

Why does Rage even HAVE to have a penalty in the first place??

If it MUST have one, then just give us a 20% end drop like Hasten...

If that is unacceptable... How about this:

When Rage expires, your ATTACKS ARE SLOWED for 10 seconds (-25% attack rate from exhaustion) and you are slightly more vulnerable (-5% def debuff).


^
Something along this idea I could possibly live with.... Possibly...

The important things (no toggle drop and ability to TANK) must not be compromised!

Sigh

I'm really getting tired of these UNDOCUMENTED changes. Sure its on TEST but nowadays that doesn't mean all that much *still is flabbergasted that Rage 2.0 made it to the live servers*.

Dev's you better start opening a dialogue before you ALIENATE a large percentage of your players. Talk to US... ask us how to best come up with a compromise. Stop making these off the wall changes! Listen to your players, because your own staff doesn't seem to have the insight to come up with a good solution!

QF

Fantastic guide!
This helped clear up a couple of questions I had recently as an Illusion controller.

QF

Jahay makes an excellent point.

WHY must Rage even have a drawback?

SS does subpar damage compared to most other Tanker Secondaries.

Energy Melee for example does more damage per attack, compared to SS, PLUS they get a Build Up power and they don't have to sacrifice rediculous amounts of endurance when it expires.

All Rage does, with the exception of increased accuracy while it is running, is increase our damage output so that we are on par or close to the same damage as Energy Melee, Axe, Fire, etc.. But at the COST of having to take yet another power (Rage) and having to run it Perma (1rdx +P Hasten) or 4 rchg rdx's.... then you factor in the disorient that may or may not get you killed when Rage recycles and I think that is more the adequate for the small increase to accuracy.

So again... WHY must Rage have such a significant penalty??


To sum this up:

* Rage damage increase is a wash. All it does is increase our weaker damage output and put us on par with other Tanker Secondaries BUT at the cost of having to run yet another perma power. Therefore, IMO, the damage increase can be factored out!

* Rage accuracy increase is another beast altogether, but gaining an additional 25-33% accuracy at the cost of running one or two perma powers, really worth Disorients or huge endurance crashes? Good lord I think not!

In closing: leave Rage alone or REMOVE the penalties. Rage is an absolute MUST HAVE power if a Super Strength Hero wants to hit as hard as many of the other Tanker Secondaries! Rage DOES NOT overpower SS Tankers or give any significant advantages over other solid hitting Secondaries, with the exception of a modest ToHit Buff. Are we to really believe that ToHit buff is worth the penalties being attached to this power?

QF

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It is very unfortunate that further power tuning is occurring after the respec, particuarly build-shaking tuning.

Can we expect further free respecs, perhaps given only to those whose powers are fundamentally altered?

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I couldn't agree more with this sentiment. I know I'm not the only one who's been caught off guard by this unanounced change, after having already spent my respec under the impression that things were not going to change further. If this goes to the Live servers "as is" it will be dissapointing to say the least.


QF

In my mind Super Strength PLUS Perma Rage puts us on even ground with Energy Melee, Axe, etc. Take Rage away and SS'ers are now at a disadvantage.

If Rage must be "tweaked" then I have to say the idea Day_Dreamer has of making it a Toggle has promise:

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A penalty to defense throughout the use of Rage (which could then conceivably become a toggle, though it could just as likely stay a click) would be very characterful (berserk offense at the expense of defense) and introduce an element of strategy in the power's use, though a defense penalty may be too easy to mitigate in many circumstances for some Tanker primaries

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Dev's please make a wise decision that keeps true to the concept of Super Strength while maintaining the FUN FACTOR as well. Do not stick with this endurance crash solution on test. It is a flawed system IMO.

QF

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The point is, you _can_ solo with any class in the game. Providing you can adapt or adjust to the circumstances. The problem is, many expect to be able to have a Defender or Controller solo at the same level cons as a scrapper or tanker. Apples and oranges, in my book.

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Sounds just dandy if you like Street Grinding. Problem here is the Hit Point increase forces Controllers, Defenders and to an extent, Tankers to hunt lower con enemies. However the new fancy schmancy Mission Slider doesn't allow for a decrease in difficulty. You start at Hard boiled (default standard diff) and can raise it to Invincible +2 to +3 level increase.

What this means is that those same above classes will have even MORE difficulty doing missions from their contacts and may have to resort to Street Grinding as an alternative. This forces those classes to either group up (forced grouping) or abandone 80% of the game content due to the new hitpoint system.

Sigh..

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but we're not seeing it because they're working on another system for increasing tank damage.

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Wrong.

Statesman has gone on the record saying that the "Increased Damage System" or IDS if you like was abandoned as it would make Tankers too powerful.

Excellent work, Grazel!
Clean interface and easy to use!

I for one, really appreciate the effort you've put into this!

QF

Yes Solo has broken the problem down quite clearly for us. There is indeed 2 conflicting points of view here. I am a firm believer that minions should be weak canon fodder, while Statesman's vision apparently lies in option 2...

My problem with option 2, minions being the low rung within an organization, is that NOTHING will ever change in the feel of gameplay. By this I mean, no matter what level I attain, no matter how experienced I become, no matter how many new skills/abilities I have under my belt.... those same three pesky white con minions are going to be the SAME challenge as when I was level 5... And that will make the game feel static!

What does that mean, exactly? Well it means that I will never truly feel like a SUPER hero.... I will never feel like I'm becoming more then a fledgling hero...

I'm all for Lieuts and Bosses scaling at a constant rate so that they provide the same challenge, regardless of level. But damnit I want some cheese factor when it comes to minions... I want to lay the smackdown on 6 or even 8 even con minions at level 45, so that citizens can say "WOW! Now THAT is a hero!".

Unfortunately... if the Dev's go ahead with their "vision" I will lose that sense of achievement. Taking 3 minions on is just not MY idea of what a hero can do... Doing a Spiderman in a dark rain swept alley, while saving MJ from a BUNCH of thugs.. that is what a comic style superhero is supposed to be....

QF

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I would make the case that since COH is an effort to replicate the look, feel and touch of the comics, it shouldn't be a challenge excpet when going up against arch-villans and in other rare circumstances.

In my opinion, as a "Super Hero", it is much more true to the comics when I can wade into a MOB and wipe them out relatively easily.

One of the ideas that I have is that big, difficult bosses would randomly appear during a fight as if arriving on the seen when the heroe is seemingly overmatched and then a huge, unsure outcome fight begins . This would add suspense to every fight.

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Now THAT is a great idea! You wade your way through punks and goons (read: minions) and take down a tough/annoying Lieutenant or two and then suddenly *BLAMMO!!* Some big guy (mean looking Boss) with a real attitude (hired out of town talent perhaps?) comes at you from nowhere (read: triggered ambush) and starts laying into you!!

Ahh to dream a little dream... Dev's are you taking notes? Variety and elements of suprise could add a great deal to missions and help keep things fresh.

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Careful about the 2 orange bosses wish. There are missions in a clue train that have 2 orange bosses at once in the teens. Many people want to solo those missions. It should be possible to solo two orange bosses, though not easily.

As Statesman said, though, making more than 3 minions = 1 hero makes missions way overpopulated when group size increases. I do wish it was more than 3, just because you often see more in the comics. 3 is probably the best balance between performance and comic simulation.

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Good point about the 2 Bosses. Perhaps that is where inspirations can make the difference. 2 Bosses on 1 hero = losing scenario until the hero is suddenly inspired! Perhaps wishful thinking on my part... As it works right now my 2 main characters both 30+ almost NEVER use inspirations any more... They just aren't necessary unless in an emergency.

As far as too many minions in a mission is concerned. Well wouldn't it make sense to just have code in place to prevent a mission from being flooded with minions? At higher levels have more Lieuts and Bosses. Just have a group of goons barring the entrance "so to speak" and let the big boys handle the superhero (with the help of a minion here or there for balancing). That way you keep the spawn numbers down and still allow a challenge AND the ability for the Hero to feel... well more Heroic! (by smashing a few minions skulls in).

QF

Edit: note to self - proof read before clicking submit x2

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I understand your point. Then what we need to see at the higher levels is less and less minions and more and more leut. and bosses. *switching to software developer mode* That way the missions don't have to bog everybody's computer down (or the servers) by multplying the number of minions in the mission by team members * 10. We should get more and more tough villians to keep the numbers down.

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I can live with that compromise. Would make sense too. As the Hero becomes more and more of a "problem" with the local crime lord, the AV would assign more and more of his "best" people to thwart the hero. Sending goons to protect a base or secure a "shipment" just isn't working anymore.

However I would still like to see the instances where the Hero has to wade through a pack of goons here and there (and still have them be a challenge - not a bunch of greys fro crying out loud). Just not a whole mission filled with them...

Edit:
And from a grouping standpoint, I think the Dev's could easily insure that Minion spawns don't get out of hand. The more hero's grouped in a mission the more Lieuts and Bosses would spawn and the less, minions would be encountered (with the exception of rounding out a group of badguys).

But I just want to add for the record:

I don't want to be able to mow done 12+ minions.

I think soloing even a purple (+4) minion is unbalanced.

Lieuts and Bosses should always be dangerous oponents, regardless of level. I should not be able to solo 2 orange Bosses without fear of death. 1 Boss should be a scary battle.

Minions should be challenging but should slowly scale downwards as the hero gains more and more power. For every level higher in con, 1 or 2 minions should be subtracted from what the hero can deal with at a time.

For example at level 40:
6 white minions
4 yellow minions
2 orange minions
1 red minion
0 purple - better get friend bub... that's what grouping is all about.

But please don't forcefeed me crap that minions are able to compete at 33% of a hero's capabilites when a hero is making leaps and bounds in personal growth and minions are still needing their mother's to wipe their noses (ie still have limited abilites).

QF

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Statesman is right. They can't fill missions up with that many villians. I believe that because we worked our butts off to get to our security level, then the villians we fight at our same security level did the same . It makes good sense to me. Some believe that 'because I am lvl 40 now, I should be able to handle 10 minions when at lvl 15 I could only handle 3'. Well at lvl 40 you can handle 10 minions but not lvl 40 minions. That is my opionion.

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Lieutenants and Bosses.... I agree they have worked their butts off. Both types get access to more then 1 or 2 attacks and that is partly what makes them challenging.

Minions? On the other hand Minions are faceless, nameless hirelings that just do what they are told. These are the canon fodder of the hero universe. They have limited skills and limited powers. So how on earth can they truly be compared to a hero? They are not equals to hero's... plain and simple.

I want Minions to be challenging. Don't get me wrong. the current system is FLAWED. But I also want the illusion that my Hero is some big, tough badass protector of the innocence. I want Minions to be a YARD STICK from which I measure the potency of my ever growing, ever evolving Hero.

Lets take a look at things from a level perspective:

At level 5, 3 even con minions are a challenge right? Now why is that? Lets see.. at level 5 I have maybe 3 attacks at the most. I have very limited combat capabilities and the Minions I'm fighting are proportionately similar.

At level 30+ I now have over a DOZEN skills both offensive and defensive. The Minions of my level, on the other hand, are still using a very FEW basic abilities.

So from my point of view, Minions should be slowly getting weaker and less impressive as I become more and more formidable....

QF

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Okay:
So the Kingpin hires three thugs to harrass ol' Daredevil. These three street punks get trounced by DD in mere seconds. We call these punks "Hellions" or "Skulls". Kingpin then hires another three goons, except these goons are highly-trained and have cool high-tech equipment purloined from the government. These guys are a bit of a challenge, but DD sends them packing, too. We call these goons "Sky Raiders" or even "Fifth Column". Kingpin is the archvillain.

Okay, so what's the difference between these two fights? COMBAT LEVEL.

The Hellions are grey-con to Daredevil, being a level 30 scrapper. The Sky Raiders are blue or white to him, as they are as highly-trained as he.

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Unfortunately this concept doesn't work in CoH. What possible reason would a level 30+ have for pounding on a bunch of Helions??

What I am suggesting is let me fight more Minions of MY level as I gain levels to give the ILLUSION (and yes admittedly its smoke and mirriors boys and gals) that I am becoming more powerful as I gain powers, levels, experience, strategies, etc...

How does this break the game. I'm still all for Liuetenants and Boss's scaling at a constant rate throughout the hero's life but allow me the dignity to at least PRETEND I'm a superhero by taking on more and more flunkies as I become a seasoned Hero. And again I'm not saying lets take 12 4+ purple minions. I'm just saying let me dish out the justice to 6 or 8 minions OF MY LEVEL at 45+....

/signed
Please let me be a Super Hero !

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The only point I'd like to make here is that Cryptic managed to make the TV trial fun and challenging for a full group WITHOUT tossing 300 mobs at them. (Ignoring for a moment all the arguments about whether a challenge for the respec trial is appropriate)

Higher cons, and more bosses/lieuts solve the performance issue admirably. Say what you will about it; the TV trial certainly FELT superheroic to me.

It may be an illusion, but I have to agree with others who want a demonstrable rise in relative power as a character gains levels. Yes, I know every other MMO out there treats an even con the same way throughout the game. Personally, that's what set CoH APART for me.

I really hope that if Cryptic pushes this huge change through, that they also consider rebalancing missions to give us some of the old 'feeling' back. For instance, throw a bunch of green minions at us, and a few tougher even level cons. Nothing makes you feel like a superhero quite so much as plowing through hordes of minions.

IMO, of course.

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Exactly, Obitus. All I want is a way to measure my hero's capabilities as he grows from a fledgling hero into a experienced, seasoned hero. The best way to do this, is by using MINIONS as a yard stick.

At level 10, 3 even con minions provide a decent challenge for one main reason: 1) Your hero only has a select few powers. But at level 30, your hero has grown considerably in both experience and power (Minions don't get this form of growth ie multiple powers). Now your hero has many powers and strategies to fall back on to dispatch the badguys. So in my minds eye, the hero should be much more capable versus nameless, faceless lackeys (read: minions) and should, as levels are gained, be able to handle more and more MINIONS.

I am not saying the hero should be able to handle many Lieuts or Bosses, just MINIONS. This would go a long way in preserving the HERO feel of the game.

Here is my definition of the 3 main bad guy ranks:

Minion - a faceless, interchangable, nameless individual who's sole purpose is to delay or weaken (through numbers) the Hero to buy the Boss more time to organize or flee or what have you.

Lieutenant - a competent, skilled individual who has made a mark in whatever organization. No longer faceless, they have proven themselves and are more then capable of giving the Hero a good fight.

Boss - Right hand men, hand picked by Crime Lords (read: AVs) to run operations. Bosses have honed their skills and are ruthless. Any one Boss is more then capable of taking the fight one on one with hero.

So for all of you "lets make CoH into EQ difficulty post 30" I'm saying:

- Yes make Bosses and Lieuts HARD, again!

- Yes make it so I can't fight purples solo!

- Yes make the game scale the same as pre level 22!

- NO!! Do not make Minions rediculously hard. Make Minions the canon fodder of CoH. Make Minions the "yard stick" that allows hero's to judge their growth as they gain levels.

But you say "How can the game be balanced when Minions are a cakewalk? Easy, just retune encounters so that Minions are almost always maxed group for the appropriate level or are mixed with Lieuts/Bosses. Dont let me find small packs of weak Minions at level 30+ make the encounters mean something! BUT let me be a damn Super Hero while I'm doing it!

Article57:

Yes, sure you can look at it that way and I totally agree that the game needs rebalancing but let me run this past you and you tell me if this is UNBALANCED?

Versus even con (white) mobs at level 30+:

Minions - 6
Lieutenants - 2
Bosses - 1
AVs - better call in the SG

And of course mixing things up so that 1 Lieu and 3 minions (as an example) would be a "difficult" battle...

Now how unbalanced is that from level 5 (approx):
Minions - 3
Lieutenants - 2
Bosses - 1
AVs - better call in the SG

Statesman wants to make things challenging again for the 30+ crowd? I say all the power to him. Fighting rediculous numbers of mobs (sometimes 4+ levels higher is nuts).

BUT MAKING THE GAME SO THAT JUST 3 EVEN CON MINIONS AT 40+ CAN SERIOUSLY CHALLENGE ME steals my sense of growth. It is through minions that we MEASURE our strength, like in the comics. I can't see the harm in letting hero's gain some ground on lowly minions as they gain levels. Would a jump from 3 minions to 6 really be that unbalancing?

QF

To STATESMAN:

Minions grow with levels... Okay FINE I can live with that logic. A Crey minion is vastly more power the a Helion, with better weapons, gear, training, etc.

BUT guess what?? MY hero is growing too! BUT if my hero can't "grow" stronger then a minion of his same level after MANY YEARS (ie levels) of intense training, crime fighting, new gadgets, or what have you... then I for one see this as going against the notion of what a comic book Super Hero is all about!

A level 10 hero can hande 3 even con minions?
Sounds balanced.

A level 45 hero can only handle 3 minions!?!?
So minions are now Super Hero's too?? By this I mean they are EXTRAODINARY individuals with extreme potential as well? I thought that was the perview of AVs, Bosses and to a lesser extent Lieutenants...

A level 45 hero can handle 6 minions...
Now we are talking! By definition of being a Super Hero , I should be growing in ability faster then a mere lackey, so that by the 40+ level range I have become twice as strong as a mere non super hero lackey minion shlub. I'm a SUPER HERO, right!? These are just lackeys. I should be improving at a greater rate then a lowly lackey for the love of god...

Lieutenants, Bosses, AVs. Sure make them HARD. Make 1 Lieu at 45+ a real threat. Make a Boss an equal and make the AV's the powerhouses they are meant to be.

But PLEASE don't mess with lowly minions! Please don't make Superheroes so weak that just 3 clods with riot gear or fancy sharp katana's can take me down.

Statesman, did you watch the first Spiderman movie? Remember the part where Spidey saves MJ from the bad guys in the dark alley? Did you happen to COUNT the number of guys he OWNED in the fight? It was MORE then 3 and they provided no REAL challenge at all. On the other hand the Goblin was easily a match for Spidey.

To me THAT is what a SUPER hero is. Don't ruin us by making minions so strong at high levels that we, as heroes, lose any and all sense of "growth" in this game. It is through minions that we MEASURE our prowse in combat!

I'm not saying that taking down 12 to 20 white con minions is balanced at the moment but making the game difficulty so HARD that we are back to day 1 when fighting 3 or more minions is just bad, from a hero perspective.

QF