You wouldn't want that. Toggle powers (like *many* defenses) have a recharge, too.
If they get knocked off for whatever reason when rage has just run out, it can take ages to get them back up....
Please dont change it. Please. PLEASE.
It's not that big a thing, I don't want changes to the inv/ss tanker at set combo.
In my opinion, rage should NOT be changed because
- Since teaming is encouraged (something I am not sure I am comfortable with, but that's a side issue), having a chance for toggle drop is good, since it means reliance on status protection from other at's.
- All equivilent changes such as an end drop, hp drop, etc would be worse than what you have now. I don't know how I feel about the disorient part of Rage (I personally don't have an issue with it, but maybe post 40 it's a big deal, I don't know).
- Why change it anyways? Who cares that people can make it perma.. is it that cool? Think of the issues that would involve changing it.. People would demand respecs, people who don't like it would drop it. It's a mess that isn't in balance to changing it.
- The possible changes that come to mind (and are evidentily coming from test, the end drop).... they make you feel less tank like. I'm Muscle Man, in melee with the evil thugs of the council, and in the middle of combat.. I gasp for breath and stand around, vulnerable and weak because I'm all tired. How heroic is that? My status protection is gone, my invinc is gone, and I am all pathetic. This is NOT a comic book feel.
Please, DON'T change Rage. PLEASE!
I would leave Rage alone:
Trading one severe penalty for another is counterproductive, and the risk of stun , even when relying on powers like Burning shield, Unyielding, and any other power that resists disorient (which offset the stun penalty),is still there, should those resists be overwhelmed.
The real issue here is information.
The hardcore players do the research and experiment, and probably take the time to test things. They become informed, at sites, boards, forums etc.
The casual player "plugs n plays", takes powers that sound "kewl" or base decisions on the very brief,and oft-times vague power descriptions. They take the names and descriptions of the powers at face value, without really considering consequences, power combinations, etc.
Without a way to test a power before you lock it in, a player needs to be informed before he/she makes the choice for a power.
Some players don't want to have to sift through countless posts (hardcore), they want to put on the spandex, toss on the cape, and fight bad-guys (casual). They have everything in the game except information about the powers they need to choose. They reallt shouldnt have to go out-side the game to find the information.
Suggestions:
1. Power Experts: NPC experts on a specific power set, do a mish for them and they will offer detailed descriptions of the powers along with advice and warnings in using the powers. (example: Bob The Body-Builder in Talos, is an expert on super strength powers and can advise on the various Super strenght powers. along with suggestions on complimentary powers)
2. Those Info Kiosks? why not make use of them! Have a Hero's guide to powers that can be accessed in game!
3. The Paragon Proving Grounds: a zone dedicated to allowing players a chance to try a power before they "buy"it. (without being hard-core and going to the test server). the power is temporary with temp training, DO and/or SO enhancers (sold seperately).
4. A chance to go back to the out-break!: Offer a new power to be selected from a Trainer (ie. Ms. Liberty) with the option to try-it-before-you-buy-it by testing it temporarily in the out-break zone (with critters of approriate lvls to the character in that part of the zone)
5. Heck! just offer the new power as a temporary (no xp till its locked in), give the casual player a chance to kick the tires and take it on a test drive.
Sorry to stray away from Rage issue, but really the problem you address with Rage is a common problems for all powers. I realize that some of the suggestions may require a great deal of work, some less so, but changing one power tends to cause alot of grief and work for alot of players.
PS plz add other important explainations/ info such as what an SO is and does! (alot of casual players seem to need it
explained..in game)
thank you.
Rage's disorient still hurts even when running Unyielding 24/7. Even the wimpiest additional stun effect during Rage's 15-second drunk time will bust through Unyielding and leave you helpless. I think the total endurance drain is actually a bit more manageable, even though its still pretty nasty. I can think of a couple other options here.
1. Modified Disorient Penalty Rage
Lower the magnitude of the disorient slightly to allow it to be managed (barely) by the everyday status protection power available to every tanker powerset. Increase the defense debuff by a noticable but not quite suicidal amount. Add an endurance drain of 20-25 points as it ends.
2. Killer Endurance Drain Penalty Rage
Eliminate the initial End cost, keep the total End drain and small defense debuff, add a blue "-100" message over our heads to notify us of the Rage drain so we don't think we just ran ourselves out of End or that there's an invisible Sapper stalking us (again).
The addition of a large animated arm punching us in the stomach, or perhaps a large mysterious target appearing on the front and back of our costume would also be a nice touch.
Statesman, sir, please please please, do not do this.
By zeroing endurance at the end of rage, you'll drop all 3 of my Invulnerability toggles. If you do that I'm effectively dead.
--Background Note:--
The very first character I made in City of Heroes was an Invulnerable/Super Strength tanker.
He was so pathetic back in issue 1, that he lasted about 1 month, then was deleted.
As things stand now, I FINALLY have a workable Tanker again! In ALL of the games I've played, my strategy has been "The best offense is a good defense". I've had thousands of hours of games, arguments, discussions, postings, etc. on this topic in games ranging from the original Wolfenstein to Master of Orion (1, 2, and 3) to Diablo and Starcraft, to Dungeon Siege, to Unreal Tournament, to whatever. I am a gamer.
Now all that being said, I've "suffered" through with my Tanker who's now getting close to the carrot at the end of the stinking whipping stick that is Super Strength. Super Strength is so dang weak that at level 11 I was fighting level 11 Gardvords. I was hitting them with Punch for 20 damage. He was hitting me for over 70! It's insane for the "most classic" of comic-book archetype powers to be the "weak sister" of the damage.
Why do you hate Super Strength Tankers Statesman? What vendetta do you have against them? Did one kick your puppy or something?
Please, for the love of fun in the game, just leave Rage as is. It's the only thing in the Super Strength set that balances the set back out to be on an even playing field with the other tanker secondary sets.
Leave the stun as is, don't mess with my endurance and please, I beg of you, go take your "small tweaks" and apply them to City of Villains. After the debacle with the "small tweak" to Regen Scrappers (My main is a 42 Regen scrapper), I cringe every time that I see one of your announcements that you're looking at changing a power in a powerset that I have.
Is that the kind of Pavlovian response you want from your gaming community? Fear and dread whenever you say that you're "looking" at a power or power-set?
I agree with most of the other posters on this thread: Don't kill the endurance --OR-- Leave it as is --OR-- just turn it into Build-up.
I hate build-up. I like the game play of a Tank just plain "getting mad" and opening a can of whoop-<bleep!>.
Anyway, that's my fearful ramble on the subject.
Thanks for reading. Good job on the Issue 3 art by the way... I about gibbered myself stupid when I saw how cool the Doctor Vahzilok room and the Clockwork King's Lair. 
Okay, I'm off to have angst driven nightmares regarding my finally playable tank. 
Happy gaming!
-SunderX
Sset - 50 DM/Regen Scrapper - 8 years of out-tanking any tank but Granite, with 5x the DPS.
**Making Altaholism a socially acceptable disorder**
"Scrappers are just like chainsaws. Somewhat hard to handle, EXTREMELY dangerous, and by far the most fun when wielded by the slightly insane." -Alissara
States,
I think the "casual player" was only being "penalized" back when the you needed to run unstoppable or stacked healing flames to avoid the disorient. Now that the staple tanker defense toggles help mitigate the disorient effect, everyone is on the same playing field. We are all also vulnerable to the rage + villian stun.
I'm not sure we've been told everything on what you're really trying to achieve here. If you have data the shows rage makes SS tanks to powerful (whatever you define that as), then just put it out there so we can provide feedback and data of our own.
There was a bit of an argument recently on whether rage was good or bad because of disorient, but I don't think there was an outcry for it to be changed in this fashon. I'm on the side that says its fine the way it works now (on live), and don't run it perma because of the disorient risk. I do use it often enough that I like having it as an option. I think its fun to have. Its one of those "ok, now you've made me mad" powers. Draining endurance to zero will take that fun away (for me anyway).
Also, if this "end drop to 0" change stands, I would like another free respec. With the addition of the EPP's, there's too many other powers I'd rather have. I for one won't use a power that will drain my end that drastically.
Rhetorical questions:
Is Superstrength plus rage better than Stone Melee plus build up?
If not, is a penalty justified?
Why penalize your customers anyway?
Could you find another way to balance powers than with a penalty?
Just because you copied the Human Torch's Nova blast, did you have to make so many other powers also have zero end at the end? (You really ought to rename Nova, Marvel might sue you. )
Suggestions:
1) Remove the penalty, its not that good of a power.
2) Reduce the penalty, its too harsh.
3) Remove the penalty, remove the ability to slot recharge enhancements so it can't be made perma-rage.
4) Replace rage with build up, tweak super strength damage upwards so build up will be useful.
Disclaimer:
I play an Invulnerability/Stone Melee tanker so this doesn't affect me personally.
Soapbox:
I wanted to play a Superstrength character, but when I built one, I deleted it about level 5. The animations and sound effects didn't suit my view of superstrength. I never even noticed the damage was weak too, since it was my first character, and I had no basis for comparison.
I tried all the other tanker secondaries and Stone Melee suited me best. Stone fist looks and sound like a super strength punch. You have to be superstrong to lift the mallet, much less swing it!
Who was it that decided that the single most common and popular super power in comics, should be based Captain America instead of Iron Man? I want to throw a car across the street, not a hub cap! (No offense intended Cap, I love you too!)
[ QUOTE ]
Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
[/ QUOTE ]
Was the 100% End drop another decimal error maybe? We seem to have a lot of those. When comparing Rage to other powers with downsides such as Stun effects and End drops (Elude, Nova, Hasten, etc.) the benefits of Rage don't equal out.
Other powers that formerly had end drops/stun effects where the gain wasn't considered overly great had the penalties actually removed (Adrenalin Boost comes to mind immediately).
In my mind the benefits of Rage are certainly not on par with a power such as Elude, and more in the range of something such as Hasten or AB, and its penalties should be in line with those powers as well, if there even needs to be a penalty at all.
Anything more than a -20 endurance is obscene! This power is in no way so overbalancing that it should require 50% or 75% loss. Give me a break. The closest power comparison as I said before is Hasten. What is Hastens downside? not much at all compared to full end drop and it effects every power in the game.
This should not be an invulnerability issue, every set now has equal opportunity to avoid the stun with their toggles. Previously that might not have been true with fire and healing flames but it is now.
Slowing people down is not an effective situation either. Ice has resistance to slow so they will negate that down side as well. Slow is already the bane of my tanker lets not add more.
I see numerous suggestions here that are nearly as bad as a full end drop. Suggestions that down sides last for 30-60 seconds. What? that is so over the top. Also making the power more painful then helpful to use. I would like to see these suggestion applied to hasten and see what the response is.
Clearly many of these suggestions are not by people who play SS tankers or maybe even tankers. I don't think it is necessary normally to have such experience to make suggestions. However, this time I am re-thinking that position because they are clearly not considering the implications of their ideas or how non enjoyable they would be. I am glad people are interested and voicing an opinions but please think through what it would be like to play with such a power. This is not a 9th level power, it does not kill hoards of people with one shot, it is less powerful than hasten.
Before my respec and issue three I frequently teamed with an axe tanker 4-6 levels below me sk'd up to me. He has always out damaged me and still continues to do so. Even before when I had more slots in my attack powers than he did. He also has Hasten and I don't but I was going to have rage which I thought would balance everything out. Now that is not likely because I wont be getting Rage with penalties like this.
If rage makes the entire set unbalanced, which I dont agree with, then the whole set needs to be changed. People want to have fun and beat things up. I would rather see a re-defining of the set and a build up then this type of change.
Since you mentioned invulnerability let me just point out that with the last respec I just removed 6 slots from my attacks to balance out my defenses. I just turned level 28 yesterday and was excited to take Rage so that some of the time I would have the damage I would have had before. (so much for my increase in tanker damage) Now I'm just not going to level up since I doubt there will be another free respec coming leaving my main character in limbo yet again, until this issue is decided. Luckily I have several alts I enjoy playing.
Ramseys
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The addition of a large animated arm punching us in the stomach, or perhaps a large mysterious target appearing on the front and back of our costume would also be a nice touch.
[/ QUOTE ]
ROFLMAO!
What an image! Monty Python's Flying City of Heroes!
Stone melee out damages Super Strength and has comparable end issues with the big hit powers,such as Knock Out Blow. In regards to build up, Rage lasts longer but Build Up does not have the stun penalty nor the new toggle drop and end loss penalty of Rage currently on test. Rage is effectively useless on test, joining the ranks of the new unstoppable, currently a one use per mission power unless you have hasten and have slotted it out with clocks allowing you to squeeze in one or two uses of the power.
States I suggest you play an Invul/SS tank yourself and see how much fun you have when the Rage drop hits, left without shields and the end to save your teammates, as you currently have it on test. I challenge ya! IJ
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Rage's disorient still hurts even when running Unyielding 24/7. Even the wimpiest additional stun effect during Rage's 15-second drunk time will bust through Unyielding and leave you helpless. I think the total endurance drain is actually a bit more manageable, even though its still pretty nasty. I can think of a couple other options here.
1. Modified Disorient Penalty Rage
Lower the magnitude of the disorient slightly to allow it to be managed (barely) by the everyday status protection power available to every tanker powerset. Increase the defense debuff by a noticable but not quite suicidal amount. Add an endurance drain of 20-25 points as it ends.
2. Killer Endurance Drain Penalty Rage
Eliminate the initial End cost, keep the total End drain and small defense debuff, add a blue "-100" message over our heads to notify us of the Rage drain so we don't think we just ran ourselves out of End or that there's an invisible Sapper stalking us (again).
The addition of a large animated arm punching us in the stomach, or perhaps a large mysterious target appearing on the front and back of our costume would also be a nice touch.
[/ QUOTE ]
My question to you is if you think that the change from the disorient to the end drop will cause the power to be more useful as a whole to the set. Do you see yourself (or any other tanker set) as using a no-endurance drop Rage more often than using a disorient drop Rage?
Any changes to the use of this power seems like it would require a reevaluation of the set as a whole. The first time the set was under review for balancing, Rage was left as it was because it was the one of the things bringing the line up to par with the other offensive sets. If they change the dynamic on it so that it is less usuable than before, it would make sense to me that the rest of the line needs to be scaled up to compensate.
[ QUOTE ]
I think the total endurance drain is actually a bit more manageable, even though its still pretty nasty.
[/ QUOTE ]
In my tests I did Volante, this end drop to 0 is far worse then the stun we have on live. With the stun you could stay un-stunned with patience or buffs. On test you loose all toggles and are in deep doo-doo if in battle. Rage is not that overpowering anyway, so it does not need a hefty penalty.
[ QUOTE ]
The real issue here is information.
The hardcore players do the research and experiment, and probably take the time to test things. They become informed, at sites, boards, forums etc.
The casual player "plugs n plays", takes powers that sound "kewl" or base decisions on the very brief,and oft-times vague power descriptions. They take the names and descriptions of the powers at face value, without really considering consequences, power combinations, etc.
Without a way to test a power before you lock it in, a player needs to be informed before he/she makes the choice for a power.
Some players don't want to have to sift through countless posts (hardcore), they want to put on the spandex, toss on the cape, and fight bad-guys (casual). They have everything in the game except information about the powers they need to choose. They reallt shouldnt have to go out-side the game to find the information.
[/ QUOTE ]
I second this motion, off topic or not! The information you need to play the game should be in the game!
One reason I got burned out on Everquest was the necessity to share information on the Internet, just to complete a quest. No one person had the time or interest to kill every single mob in the game 30 times just to see what rare quest item it might drop.
One thing I love about this game is that I don't need read these forums to play. I read them because I like to! I don't want to see everything re-balanced to make things difficult for the "hardcore players". That will force "casual players" to either give up or become "hardcore".
I would be satisfied with an endurance penalty like with Hasten. Maybe a loss of endurance at the end and a few seconds of no recovery. But it shouldn't drop toggles. That's the key.
I don't see how any players can complain about this now? This does not make sense to me since all but stone has mobile status protection (since I3) very early in the game which prevents you from disorient effect at end of power...way before lvl 28. If they make it drop endo all the way isnt that the same effect? there is insp to break from disorient?
2+2 =5?
please do NOT change rage! this almost makes me want to get my tinfoil hat out.
[ QUOTE ]
Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!
[/ QUOTE ]
Jack,
I give up. Change anything, make it so I randomly just accrue debt for no reason, make MIMA a giant tuna.. I just can't be passionate or even want to deal with these changes anymore. I am an INV/SS tanker, and I would like to consider myself a casual gamer because I'm not respec minmaxed and I haven't done the math required to be 'uber'.
Don't get me wrong, I wholly understand game mechanics and the problems that seem to magically occour when the players get ahold of the rules. I've looked at entire sections of a game that I've helped write get completely turned upside down to the point where I'm not even sure I should be rightfully getting paid for the work. (If my editor is reading this: Pay me anyway, dammit).
I try to work within the changes, to get a character that I feel does what I want it to do, or at the least a close approximation. But now I feel like I'm being forced into things that I absolutely don't want. Running three toggles (pretty much a requirement for boss fights) leaves me with piddly endurance.. so what do I do? What do I HAVE to do, I abhor the stamina power. I feel it hides too many endurance issues inherint with the game design. Stamina should only be for those players who absolutely want to be the toggle monkey, or the hasten superfreak. But not me, I didn't want it, but now I have it because it was yet another change I needed to make to try to be who I wanted to be: The Tank.
So Rage doesn't drop toggles 100%? it sure drops my toggles just fine when other things are hitting me and adding to my disorient chance. Why am I getting punished for trying to live on the edge and being able to dodge that bullet? And now, on test it supposedly drops end to 0? I have to ask.. is that the desired goal of the power? to drop toggles at the end of it's use and get me killed? Fine. I give up, you can have rage back and I'll finally take a real movement power without having to give up an epicancillary option. No wait, the soonest possible (and final) respec I can get is 8 levels away.
Whatever. Just make the change and get over with it. I can't complete a fight without rage dropping normally on live with all the changes that have been made, and versus bosses, and most lts I need to have all three toggles to have my defenses high enough. (Which bugs the crap out of me by the way.. I have six slotted passives!!!!!!!!)
I refuse to respec minmax, ever. for any reason.
I'm not going to test this time, Just change whatever you're changing for better or worse and get over with it so I can pick up the pieces and play my little pink tanker. -or as some people have been saying "crappy scraplet" I'm just tired of sitting in that rollercoaster of anticipation and dread.
And yea, it really doesn't help that my other character is a Mind Controller.
Thanks for Reading.
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In my tests I did Volante, this end drop to 0 is far worse then the stun we have on live. With the stun you could stay un-stunned with patience or buffs...
[/ QUOTE ]
Excatly!
And this is why I thought the new inspirations were made in the first place, so we could effectively "break free" from those 15 seconds of stun. Even someone who isn't using Unyieling (or their primary equivalent) could pop a 'Break Free' after Rage wares off so they could fight normally again.
Like I've mentioned before, running the current Rage is a risk in itself; I know that there's a chance I'll be stunned after it wares off, I know the risks, but I use it anyway. I know exactly what I'm getting.
I've been defeated maybe once or twice while using the Unyielding/Rage combination, but that was my own fault. However, it's interesting to point out that on both occasions, I was defeated after being held (stunned by tazers), and being drained of all my endurance by Malta Sappers (left defenseless, unable to recover any endurance). But like I said, this has only happened a couple of times, I'm more careful against Malta Sappers now, I know now to take them out as quick as I can (preferably the first target I fight).
I can guaruntee you, with the "new" Rage, you're going to see a lot more of these sort of defeats.
A car can't run with a dead battery.
**Edit Note: If they change Rage, that's another free respec I'm going to need.** 
I really dont get this change. I just respec'ed (Fixed the inv powers to correspond with the last changes) and got rage. I wasn't doing that much more damage using it anyhow. So I thought it was an alright power that was getting me the damage to kinda contribute to the team. Fact is at lvl 32 now, I really dont see what the problem is with a SS tanker actually doing some damage. Its like, finally a power worth taking in the SS line. There are only really four. Haymaker, KO blow, foot stomp, and rage. Everything else is up for grabs.
This just came out of left field. Already if you look at the tanker numbers they are very small in comparison to the other AT's. As it stands the inv and regen scrappers are ruling the melee arena. This is really odd. I am dumbfounded at the way things are going for the inv/ss Tankers. I have played several alts, and this alt is taking the longest to level....along with my FF/Psi defender. After the first change I really think it is unfair for the development group to take such liberties with the player community. Its really disheartning, especially when I am defending this game against other contenders like WoW and EQ2.
I am finding it harder and harder to find reasons to accept the constant changes, and I am a pretty patient guy. I am not threatning to quit or anything, but it is dissapointing to have been hit twice hard in a week...My blaster had the same thing with SG...and I dealt with that..then the inv for my scrapper, then the tank, and again the tank. I am still respecing the inv scrapper--now waiting to see the latest changes I dont dare even play the toon until things have calmed down. You could have waited to do this later, couldn't you? Yes, I know it is still in test, and I know everything is subject to change.
Rage-I dont think it should change period..That is my suggestion. IMO Every AT has better powers except for SS..thats why I rerolled a Energy tanker, because SS is just tired and its too hard to continue fighting nerfs to medicore secondaries. Why bother with it just take some other secondary. It clear that its not all that - with one AOE and one good damaging attack. And as for the speed. Its not that fast. What is the problem?
The forementioned root of the problem (Casual player vs Hardcore player) is an issue for any AT. Hell, I didnt flip Ms. Pacman or turnover Donkey Kong by "casual play"! And I'd wager that its a good thing. Learning how to make a better build should be part of this game. Not penalizing players for doing so. It cheapens the effect for players when they feel like they have accomplished something and you take it away repeatedly.
Well, I hope you can come to a solution that I can deal with, and I am sure you will. Until then I will play on live, and hope that my voice and others will be taken into consideration. Thank you for your time.
Well there is one thing I can say...
If something is broken, too weak or too strong, they will fix it.
The record of the game and the changes show it... They always get it right. It may take some weeks of evaluating and testing, but they WILL get it right. And this from the mouth of an invul tank that doesnt think invul needs anything beside ranged def in invinc.
Have faith... They know what they do. if its bad, they will revert it. They always do.
In States we trust!
my vote? Leave rage alone. I like it just as is.
SuperSolar-Fire/SS H.A.C.S. -Virtue
Capt. Solar-Inv/Fire Tank-Liberty
PowerStrike-Fire/Mace Tank-Virtue
Mighty Marvel-PeaceBringer-Virtue
Power X -Claws/Fire Scrapper-Virtue
[ QUOTE ]
Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. !
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, Unyielding (Stance) is not a casual/hardcore thing, that is an Invulnerability thing. I am surprised this was worded that way: Invulnerability is not the only primary powerset for Tankers.
Presumably Earth Tanks could gain the same benefit. However, Earth tanks have to hold still while Rooted, whereas the now "useless" Inv tanks can at least move around. Raging while Rooted cannot possibly be as overpowering as U(S) and Rage.
Fire/SS tanks, with the weakest defense, get hosed the worst by Rage:
<ul type="square">[*]Rage turns off toggles[*]Rage doesn't work with fire powers[*]Even Fiery Embrace doesn't work with certain fire powers.[*]No Build Up[/list]
P.S. Easiest solution is to get rid of self-stun. That's horrible.
maybe make it a self slow: slow recharge, slow END recovery, slow Health recovery, slow movement, etc.
(My other account has a 39 fire/SS tank)
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasnt getting the desired penalty. !
[/ QUOTE ]
Um, Unyielding (Stance) is not a casual/hardcore thing, that is an Invulnerability thing. I am surprised this was worded that way: Invulnerability is not the only primary powerset for Tankers.
Presumably Earth Tanks could gain the same benefit. However, Earth tanks have to hold still while Rooted, whereas the now "useless" Inv tanks can at least move around. Raging while Rooted cannot possibly be as overpowering as U(S) and Rage.
Fire/SS tanks, with the weakest defense, get hosed the worst by Rage:
<ul type="square">[*]Rage turns off toggles[*]Rage doesn't work with fire powers[*]Even Fiery Embrace doesn't work with certain fire powers.[*]No Build Up[/list]
P.S. Easiest solution is to get rid of self-stun. That's horrible.
maybe make it a self slow: slow recharge, slow END recovery, slow Health recovery, slow movement, etc.
(My other account has a 39 fire/SS tank)
[/ QUOTE ]
This is an important point too. States specifically said Uy, but not all */SS Tankers are invuln/SS Tankers. I think the elemental primaries will be hurt even worse by this change on test. If Rage needs re-evaluation, making the penalty so severe as rendering it useless is not the answer.
I'm in agreement with OneFiveTwoFive ... Just get it over with Jack. You kept my poor tanker hanging on the Invuln changes for a week and a half. I'm tired of the Roller Coaster. I love playing my tanker and I'll keep playing after you change Rage.
Have a good weekend and please, just tell us what you want to do by Monday or Tuesday. I vote for no change, but that is just a "Hardcore" Unyielding user speaking
[ QUOTE ]
Heres an idea:
when Rage wears off, instead of endurance dropping to zero (thereby losing all toggled defenses, the heart of the tanker), You instead have incredibly sllloooowww recharge time on all powers.
This would simulate how tired the hero now is! Perhaps a minute or more. And the hero will need to be placed on the untimate defensive position untill then..."catching his breath", so to speak.
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This is an excellent idea. The recharge slowing would also impact the ability to make Rage permanent (and Hasten or other "perma-able" powers for that matter).
DS