jahay

Well considering the boards were down all day, there was no way to inform folks as to why Rage went live as is. I would guess that this is a minor fix and there was no reason to hold the patch off. Well, here's hoping to see the other proposed fix soon.

Heh, soon as I saw what my Rage was doing to me last night, I didn't use it one more time for the rest of the night.

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I am neither for nor against perma rage. I don't care one way or the other really. How one person builds their toon is up to them. But the Devs on the other hand have repeatedly said, over and over, that click powers with penalties are NOT meant to be perma. They are situational only. This is one (of a few) reasons why permaunstoppable is now nonpermaunstoppable.

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Oh that's right ... that's why MOG and Elude can be made perma status. Unstoppable was made the way it was because people were respeccing out Temp Invuln, Unyielding, Resist Physical, Resist Energy, and Resist Elements. Heck some were even opting to leave tough hide out of the build, since Invincibility covered them.

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If you're talking in terms of raw dps, SS is right in the middle. And yes, it appears that if the devs wanted SS to have stronger attack damage, they would have done it. They already went and boosted damage output in I3 and guess what, SS didn't get more of a boost than anyone else. So yeah, in terms of raw dps I don't think SS was meant to be as strong as some of the other sets.

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Uhhh, yes. As a team, doesn't each player have a responsibility to take care of each other, whether Rage is a factor or not? As a tank, I take care of the team by sucking up damage meant for them. An empathy defender takes care of their team by making sure any who needs healing get's it, etc. etc. etc. What's your point?

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No arguement here ... I was just pointing out that some folks like to solo. I myself do it about 50 percent of the time. Personally the original testing of 100 percent endurance drop seemed much more dangerous in team situations than solo.

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I state the devs state that powers like Rage were never meant to be used perma. Again, their words, not mine. Go look up the unstoppable thread. It's all in there.

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Well since you make the claim ... I'll let you provide the burden of proof. I followed the Unstoppable thread a great deal. I don't remember Statesman, or any other red name, saying Rage was not working as intended in there.

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You're a bit off base, and apparently not looking hard enough. Statesman said in response to the unpermastoppable issue that this was NOT a move by them to make the SS set weaker, it was a move by them to restore BALANCE to the SS set because <drumroll!!> powers like unstoppable were never meant to be used perma, and because people were, their toons were much more powerful than they should have been.

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Oh you forgot your <rimshot>. I think you might want to go back and read that thread again. It dealt with players dropping a majority of their powers and just keeping unstoppable. Super Strength was not addressed as being unbalanced. It was Invuln tankers that was being looked at. Granted lots of folks have Invuln / Super Strength tankers.


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And he repeatedly stated that in creating the various tanker lines they strove for BALANCE, not EQUALITY. He freely admitted they are NOT equal, but BALANCED. Go look it up.

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No arguement here ... I agree with you about him wanting balance.

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So until they do post it I'm going to be an advocate for getting as much dps for Wobster as I can.

<snip>

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They did. So you can go back to your day job now.

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Well I'll need you to get some quotes for me on that ... or is your day job getting in the way

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Again, your point being? If you're playing solo and you're about to get a toggle drop from rage, YOU RUN. Speedy Gonzalez style. Andele! Andele!

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Well I don't have super speed for Wobster and neither do I want it ... so it would be more of a high jump ... ceiling height allowing.

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The issue with being on a team is that if you're in the middle of a battle and your toggles drop you can't just run off as you'll leave your team vunerable to the mobs. But where most translate this situation into insta-death, I am of a more optimistic mindset in that I believe one's teammates can assist them for 15 friggin seconds till one can get their toggles up again. Understand?

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Never disagreed with you that a team should not have your back. I have had my bacon in the fire and save people's bacon many times over in this game.

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Dude, do you even have a day job? I DIDN'T SAY IT, STATESMAN DID.

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And again I'll have to ask you for the quote please ... as I didn't make that the foundation of my arguement.

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Yeah, you're right. It does feel like fighting. And it shouldn't. And frankly, it's wearing me out [masses of whining crybabies lead by Volante and Goldiewhatsherface scream and jump for joy].

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People expressing their displeasure is just that. I really don't care how people let out their distaste for things. If they do it in a very negative way, it only hurts their arguement.

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All I've been trying to do is get 3 points across to people:

1.) Rage is going to change so that everyone is going to suffer a penalty. Not my idea (although I support it; if some should be able to get around the penalty and others not, that's not fair). Just relaying what the devs said.

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Well it may or may not change ... that is yet to be seen. I will agree with you though that it probably will be modified though.

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2.) That Rage is not meant be used perma, and therefor is not the devs' way of making the SS set "able to keep up" with the other sets, and that anyone who believes this is misinformed.

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I never was privvy to the forum discussion on rage with Geko ... so I can't answer that for you. Some folks say they were. Since the board got cleaned up a little while back, I can't go back and look. You would not have the quotes disprove people that make that claim would you?

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3.) That before you denouce the new Rage on test you actually go and try using it. Attempt to develop a workable strategy for it. You may actually find that it works well, and although it's not the old Rage, it's still a useful and very usable power.

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Tested it, didn't like it, and I'll fight to make sure it doesn't happen, as Stan Lee would say "Nuff Said". All going well, it looks like the 100 percent endurance drop has been averted. If Rage was to be released with a 100 percent endurance drop, which does not look to be the case now, I would see it becoming extremely situational. So situational, that it falls on the verge of useless. What good is a power if you only use it 1 percent of the time. Rage does not make Wobster into a killing machine. It simply helps him to put out a little more damage and help improve his accuracy. Once again, those darn single target attacks keep getting in the way. Oh well, I'll have to wait till Footstomp. I really doubt you would see Rage turn the tide of battle in a group fight. After all that is why you have teammates right, make up for our shortcomings?

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Hmm... here's a thought. If the devs had wanted SS to hit as hard as the other tanker secondaries THEY WOULD HAVE MADE US HIT AS HARD AS THE OTHER TANKER SECONDARIES.

Seems pretty reasonable to me.

Now since we can pretty safely assume the devs DON'T want SS attacks to be as powerful as other tanks, how do you think they're gonna like it when you take what they designed to be a limited-use situational power and use it perma so that you CAN have attacks that are as strong, if not stronger than other tanks?

Now stop and think about that. Wait. Think a little longer. Again

(hint: they don't want SS attacks to be as strong as other tank attacks and I'm misusing a power to allow me to do what they don't want and never intended me to do, that is, have attacks that are as strong as other tanks)

Got it? Now try and see if you can figure out why they're changing Rage?

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Willy, I have seen several of your post and I know your the advocate of no Perma Rage. You make an arguement that:

1. perhaps SS was never meant to be as strong as other tanks.

2. You have pointed out, several times, in other post that your team should take care of you, when you get into trouble with Rage.

3. You state tha perhaps the devs never meant for Rage to be perma.

For point one. If the Devs have meant for SS to be weaker than the other tanker types, I have never seen a red name post that. So until they do post it I'm going to be an advocate for getting as much dps for Wobster as I can. Why do I want to be able to do a little more damage. Easy, saves me endurance, damage, and time. SS does not get an AOE attack till 38. Footstomp being the top of the mountain for us. So for 38 levels, we have to rely on single target attacks to arrest foes. I hate having to throw that extra punch or jab to finish off that sliver of health left on a mob. One less attack saves me endurance for the next mob, less damage I might take, and time to complete the mission <sidenote: I solo/team about 50/50 wih Wobster>

Point two comes into whether I want to team or not. I stated above that I team about 50 percent of the time. So I do not always have a team to cover my back.

Point three you talk about them never wanting Rage to be perma. Willy, you and I both know that the devs know darn well what is perma and not perma. Yeah I could see something like this:

<Statesman walks into office, sees Geko playing City of Heroes at his desk>
<Statesman>: What character you playing Geko?
<Geko>: Oh it's just a tanker type I play from time to time. Found something funny though. If I have Unyielding on at the same time Rage wears off, funniest thing, I don't get stunned.
<Statesman>: That's ridiculous! We tested that over and over are you sure?
<Geko>: Yup I'm sure. Been spending all morning staring at the screen. It's crazy I know. I also noticed that if you are running Hasten and one recharge enhancer, now you better sit down, it overlaps. I'm not sure, but I think just three recharge enhancers will accomplish that also.
<Statesman>: Well that's just great. Now those pesky super strength tankers will be on par with my Invuln Energy tanker<note this is pure speculation as I do not know what Statesman plays>. Before you know it, those stupid bricks will be wanting to get reduced endurance on their attacks or something.
<CuppaJoe on hearing that last comment ducks behind the watercooler>
<Statesman>: Alright quick, what options do we have?
<Geko>: I ... I ... I don't know Statesman.
<Geko hangs head in shame>
<Suddenly from over the cubicle wall Positron is heard>
<Positron>: Hey! Who put this crappy endurance drop in Unstoppable! It just dropped all my toggles!
<Geko gets an evil grin>: Statesman I have an idea!
<Fade to black>

Personally I see this change coming down the pike because Unyielding became mobile. Before, you had to stand in place and wait out the rage disorient, or you just suffered through it, preferably with no mobs around you. Heck, PvP might even be a part of the equation. Personally I was not one fighting for Unyielding to be mobile. I thought it was an adequate draw back for the power. Though I always thought they should have gave it Acrobatics knockdown resistance, while running.

Well keep fighting for your points Willy and I will keep fighting for mine. Till then see you on the streets of Paragon City.

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But I agree that it should have a penalty that can't be "circumvated" by other powers in the tree.

I'd suggest a penalty to END regen (with maybe a -10 drop at the end like Hasten) to symbolize being "tired" out. Maybe even a small movement penalty too.

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Just to play Devil's Advocate here, since I don't get why everybody is on this big bandwagon to gimp Tanker endurance even more, should we then put in disadvantages into all powers that enhance the hero.

Let's have Targetting Drone suck endurance like a sieve, Build Up, after it drops, can lower all your attack damage by 50 percent for ten seconds, have Practiced Brawler make you easier to stun after it drops, or make Integration and Instant Heals clicky powers, instead of toggles.

I hope you see what I'm getting at. Rage has a disadvantage and I think it should be left alone or just give the Super Strength set Build Up and be done with it ... these out of the blue changes the devs are looking at it is wearing me down.. Now granted, I don't see the data that the devs do but I never had anybody come up to me and tell me Rage was overpowered. Heck, if I ever was to see a Invuln tanker running around without Unyielding, I would seriously wonder what he/she was smoking and then I would politely inquire as to why he passed over one of the staple powers. I team with a Invuln/Energy tanker on a semi regular basis. Rage is the only thing that allows me to keep up with him period. His damage output is simply just greater than mine, with his multiple hit ability, per attack.

I'm in agreement with OneFiveTwoFive ... Just get it over with Jack. You kept my poor tanker hanging on the Invuln changes for a week and a half. I'm tired of the Roller Coaster. I love playing my tanker and I'll keep playing after you change Rage.

Have a good weekend and please, just tell us what you want to do by Monday or Tuesday. I vote for no change, but that is just a "Hardcore" Unyielding user speaking

A couple of emotes I would like to have ...
- Cower, where we shrink into a ball on the ground, trembling in fear.
- Knuckle Crack, Either interlacing hands and extending the hands outward or using one similar to taunt, but you do it to one hand and then the other.

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That sounds great for the early part of the game. However, once you get your own secret lair, it would be nice if you could get your own teleporter. Going back to your base isn't as convenient as going to the nearest hospital, but it might be better than having to escape jail every time.

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Actually, I thought you might be able to start teleporting to your lair, after you complete a specific mission. I envisioned this mission to be where you sneak into Freedom Corps and alter the teleporting mechanism. So you would be teleported to the lair, instead of the nearest jail.