darkgolem

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Some problems I noted with the trailer.

Nothing major, just wanted to point them out. Love it to death.

1. The scrapper (or the martial arts guy, whoever he is) should run in front while statesman says "wait, wait lets stick together", then the scrapper should be the one beat up before the team meats the villians.

2. Also, I don't know if I saw a tanker there, but if the scorpion guy (I assume a brute) is able to taunt, he should say something like "hey lemme herd these guys, I think I can take em".

3. Synapse should attack the villians before the non squishies of the team initiate combat, using his most powerful attack, and possibly scatter them around the room.

Nothing critical there, just a minor devation from normal hero behavior.

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You missed one:

- As the heroes run into the building and Manticore pulls back his bow, covering their rear, we should hear Positron's voice crackle over their com units, "Oh, there's lots of guys in here. Oh crap! Help! Where the [censored] are you guys???
wwwwwaaaaasssssssdddddddd"

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Oh and Synapse should have waited a full minute or so before responding to Statesman's request for scouting.

Also, mid combat someone should have gone "afk. bio"

Also Synapse should have been like "I found the boss.. anyone need a tp?"

Rofl.. this is fun:>

Edit: Oh Positron should have said "gather for AM", then said it multiple times, and started telling individuals who didn't gather to come in for AM specifically.

Some problems I noted with the trailer.

Nothing major, just wanted to point them out. Love it to death.

1. The scrapper (or the martial arts guy, whoever he is) should run in front while statesman says "wait, wait lets stick together", then the scrapper should be the one beat up before the team meats the villians.

2. Also, I don't know if I saw a tanker there, but if the scorpion guy (I assume a brute) is able to taunt, he should say something like "hey lemme herd these guys, I think I can take em".

3. Synapse should attack the villians before the non squishies of the team initiate combat, using his most powerful attack, and possibly scatter them around the room.

Nothing critical there, just a minor devation from normal hero behavior.

ok the saddest thing about this thread was I noticed someone called cuppajo a he, not knowing her sex, then someone corrected the misinformed poster.

When I read the correction, and found out cuppajo was a female, the first thing I thought was:

"I wonder if she's cute"?

I am a pathetic, pathetic man.

Then how in the world did you think HO's were a good idea in PVP.

You guys are great and all that.. but darn why didnt you see that coming?

Out of curiosity, is the invuln build way past the smash/lethal cap for a scrapper? Not a criticism, I am making by chance a claws/invuln scrapper and am not planning that many slots for those.. so wondering why mine is different.

one way that fly (as a user of teleport and fly on various toons) is safer than teleport is that fly allows better aim. With teleport rarely I would teleport someplace that I misjudged as safe. Also, teleporting into the air only allows teleporting the max distance.. you cant teleport only 50 feet to above a box, your going to teleport 100 feet, turn, aim for the top of the box (which you can now see) and teleport again. And yes camera's can be adjusted to maneuver to you can see the top of the box for the first teleport.. some of the time, but its a pain, and makes teleport either risky or impractical for combat.

Also, none of that pesky falling or having to type really fast while moving around.

Geko whats the bonus per foe of invinc? please! we will send you cookies!

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I have been looking forward to the implementation of PvP since I started CoH. And I fall in with those who are concerned about the effect of Hami enhancements on PvP. Like many others, I found the 'loot-free' aspect of CoH refreshing after other MMO's and, in fact, that is a big part of the reason I am still here after my core group of gaming friends have moved to newer games.

I have participated in Hami raids and, for me, they are just not fun ... the massive style raids never have been my style. If it ends up that farming Hami becomes necessary to be competitive in PvP then I will sadly accept that the game direction is no longer for me.

But I think the developers have done an outstanding job so far and I trust that they will take all play styles into consideration while they work out the details of PvP.

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How about making hami's (and hydrao's and titano's) decay over time. The decay time can be short enough that the enhancements won't be worth it to maintain. Course then people will say that that's bad, and the trial is less rewarding, so put a temp power in there that's sorta neat. Since temp powers can be removed in arena's (I gather) this wont be a problem.

This I feel it is worth it, because it will remove the hami-o issue.

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Thanks for all of your suggestions in the Dev Corner. I've noted them all down for analysis.

There's no immediate deadline for changes Archetype wide, though individual power sets might need attention sooner. I just wanted to say that nothing at the moment is set in stone.

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For those who have not been with COH long enough, let me provide a detailed analysis of the "between the lines" meanings of what Statesman just said.

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here's no immediate deadline for changes Archetype wide,

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"we will be changing all the controller archetypes by reversing your powersets. Pets will be first, and your single holds etc, will be last. Also, Mind will now have a 3*duration on all its affects."

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though individual power sets might need attention sooner.

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"Fire controllers will now be getting Nova as their second power in there set, and devices as their secondary set. Ice will be getting brawl as their ninth power."

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I just wanted to say that nothing at the moment is set in stone

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"Geko will be installing these changes next week, then the entirety of the coding staff will be on extended sabatical to Tibet for a month after that. Enjoy!"

(Btw, joking)

Current comment from Statesman is found here.

Ok I am way disappointed with rage, and I really hope it's a mistake.

Has anyone confirmed its a 100% drop? It's seems like it is, but when I turned off all my powers, and stood there, using rage, it only seemed to drop about 20%.

But several times it dropped 100% or appeared to be a 100% drop, but all those times I was fighting and my powers were on, etc. SO I wonder if it's a bug. Still horrible, and more so from a lack of dev comment up to this point. Even a "whoops, mistake, were gonna have it fixed ASAP" or something would be ok. As it is, I am, if it's a permanent change, I will decide whether to just shelve my Inv/SS or tought out the remaining 12 levels. After all, I don't need rage teamed, and the last 10 levels, what with all the AV's, is all about teaming anyways. Feel deep sympathy for all the lower level tankers though.

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Man I can't believe it. It's absolutely horrible. I hope its a mistake.

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Dude, do you not read the dev digest? It's clearly an error that the Rage change got moved to live.

That said, I've removed rage from my tray as well since I continue to accidentally use it. Just too much of a habit.

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Actually, the crazy impression I got that this was meant was reading the update notes.. mentions it there. If it's a mistake, fine, but either way, it's still sewage.

Rage is bad enough that I removed it from my tray. Its not 100 end drop, i don't think, but I have had my toggles drop every time I have used it, and I am an end efficient toon. What a piece of junk. Statesman, do me a favor and tell me who else your gonna help, so I can avoid making a toon thats not going to be improved anytime soon.

Man I can't believe it. It's absolutely horrible. I hope its a mistake.

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Many players complained about the stun at the end of Rage because it turned off toggles and left them helpless. At the same time, hardcore players with perma-unstoppable or Unyielding were able to avoid the Stun effect. Thus the casual player was getting penalized and hardcore player wasn’t getting the desired penalty. We're still looking at the issue - so feel free to post your thoughts & ideas!

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Ok, let me rehash, pardon ahead to those that this is tedious to.
<ul type="square">[*]First, Having an excellent power with status protection and resistances is not hardcore, it's sensible.
[*]Second, permaunstoppable is irrevelant, it's gone. Second, permaunstoppable is irrevelant, it's gone.
[*]Third, a full end drop is a near certainty of toggle drop, and therefore harsher than a 15 second possibility of toggle drop from disorient, so the full drop is a bad idea. Frankly, while I believe yourself and all the other dev's are outstanding, I am surprised you considered it.
[*]Fourth, I recognize and appreciate that the changes to rage you are considering are based upon player complaint, thanks.
[*]Fifth, When is the last day you will be datamining before you make a decision on whether or what changes to make to rage, so I and other players know when to not bother to test further. If you don't know yet, can you let us know when you do?
[*]Sixth, IS the SS test inferior in damage compared to other tanker secondary sets? With or without rage? How much? You must know this, and it would be better for the player base and the quality of the posts to know than conjecture.[/list]
Now, regarding the End drop. This is in my opinion a bad idea because:

1. Standing around is unheroic and boring. In a comic book, the various "tanky" type heroes might be hurt, but they keep fighting. They don't stand around being attacked by their foes. In real life it's boring and frankly makes me feel like a detriment to the team I am on.

2. The end drop discourages teaming. If I feel I am a detriment to a team, I will avoid teaming, because I don't want to hold them up, something standing around waiting for end recovery (or nabbing other people's cabs) will do. Furthermore, the end drop is even more dangerous in a team. In solo play I can usually run away, or at least survive the drop of toggles, since I am fighting smaller amounts of foes. In group play, the time I take turning on my toggles again (way more than the measly 15 sec disorient), is enough for me to drop agg, and have the squishies in the back of the group have a chance to sample the local dirt.

3. End drop is disheartening. I want to be tough, dangerous, cool, whatever. I didn't take unstoppable for the same reason... the on again/off again powers like unstoppable and what you are planning for rage are depressing and unfun.

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Rage as it is now is an Extreme use power? It is useless against DE because of thier high Res to smashing, its pointless against Freakshow because they can Rez themselves, Malta has so many stuns that i do not think anyone would consider it, Council has slows so thier went you ability to fight, Rikti have psionics, SO where is the Extreme use?

The point is if a tank is in a bad situation Greater Damage is not going to be the answer. Superstrength Strength DPS is so low that if they faced an opponent whom Could actaully go through thier HP fairly easily that popping rage would just be an object lesson in kissing the ground. In dire situations Greater Res is the answer. Isn't this the Entire reason why people are angry about Unstoppable? The fact that if something can force them to pop unstoppable the greater Res and End increase is negated because said opponents will probably outlive the duration time of Unstoppable? In that Case Rage is far more worthless in extreme situations (for which it is supposedly for?) and only serves to make the the situation even more dangerous.

I have yet to find a situation that has made me need greater damage output to save myself.

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This is innacurate in my experience. I remember that in my twenties when first running up against the devouring earth, I had my defenses well slotted, but my attacks poorly slotted, because I had been damaged so thoroughly and often pre invincible in my teens. The result was that against the DE my damage was so poor that I could barely keep up with the regen. The changes I was able to make with slotting as I gained more slots, toward damage, and Rage, allowed me to handle them.

The same applies now. And... arresting the chief mesmerist protects me from multiple status affects hitting and affecting me, and from the toxic affects of the nemesis, and so on. Damage output can be effective in helping you, along the "best defense is a good offense" line of thinking.

BUT I am still wondering where the problem is with perma rage, and the problem with rage's disorient penalty comes from. I gather people complained.. but I run my 37 on invincible against Rikti, DE, whatever, and solo I rarely run into status affects penetrating my unyielding, and my rage is almost perma. In group situations I usually have status protection from the healer. So why are we doing this again?

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The point has already been made multiple times that Geko balanced out the damage of SS taking Rage into account, but lets consider what you've just said anyway.

You are positing the idea that Superstrength damage SHOULD be sub-par, and that this is an INTENTIONAL design element.

Now, please explain to me for what reason WOULD or MUST SS be kept at a sub-par damage level? I'm asking you, WHY would the Devs decide that Super Strength damage must be poor? What possible design reason justifies that?

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As far as I can tell, damaging powers in almost all the sets have secondary effects that add to the main benefit of damaging your opponent. So for example, fire has dot, very few opponents resist psionics, electricity drains end, etc.

With SS the benefit was that knockback was done. Now, aside from the fact that in usage knockback is a downside to melee opponents, this could be considered worth having the SS powerset be weaker than say, energy, since energy only disorients (I believe) rather than what I guess was considered more powerful knockback.

Now I admit that there are some holes in this theory, since the dev's are very competant, hardworking, etc., and therefore must have realized that knockback does not equal better to a melee set.. but maybe in production it was overlooked, whatever.

Regardless of that fact, IF SS powerset is considered benefited enough by knockback that damage should be less that other tanker powersets, THEN damage should have been increased for the set in and of itself, aside from the I3 "increase" (regardless of the actuality of whether damage was increased in effect due to end slotting needs post nonpermaunstoppable), because knockback (and it's questionable benefits to a melee set) was removed in it's effect to even cons.

SO, this being the case, before we look at whether rage should have a end drop, has ANYONE measured on test the effectiveness of SS compared to other tanker sets? I know that we all consider it sub par compared to energy, but does anyone have a damage per second comparison?

To be able to say that SS needs to have rage given a change (for benefit or detriment to the users of the poweset), we have to do the following.

<ul type="square">[*]Develop a same level comparison of Damage Per Second between differing tanker sets, against same con mobs, who are NOT resistant to the damage types used by the compared tanker sets.
[*]Determine the Damage Per Second of SS in the same comparison as above, WITH Rage.
[*]Determine the loss of Damage Per Second caused by the end drop found on test (that is, the loss of Damage Per Second) due to standing around, unheroically waiting for End to come back to the level before the end drop.[/list]
Then we can reasonably say if SS is better in damage than other sets, if SS is better in damage than other sets with Rage, and whether with the end drop SS is better than other sets.

The thing that annoys me is that, while I understand they have a billion other things to do, couldn't this be done by the imms in like a few hours? After all, presumably, they can make a character, level the character, test with the character; a stop watch and a calculator, in a lot less time than we can. And they know the resistances of mobs, and the exact damage a attack does, and so on. Heck they could do it on paper, I presume. Am I just wrong or what?

It seems self evident that Rage isn't needing the much harsher penalty, and could stand a little magnitude reduction in it's disorient, without unbalancing the "all powerful SS" group, but if testing is what's needed, then why make the players do it.. it wouldnt take that long.

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Well there is one thing I can say...

If something is broken, too weak or too strong, they will fix it.

The record of the game and the changes show it... They always get it right. It may take some weeks of evaluating and testing, but they WILL get it right. And this from the mouth of an invul tank that doesnt think invul needs anything beside ranged def in invinc.

Have faith... They know what they do. if its bad, they will revert it. They always do.
In States we trust!

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So question.. you find unstoppable useful? Do you even have it? You know a lot of tankers who use the new unstoppable? I agree that it was broken before, and overall i agree with the changes to invuln, but I am not sure I agree with your statments above. Since we are on the subject, are you pleased with ancillary powers for tankers? Do you feel they address "gaps" in tanker abilities? I respect your opinion, but not sure I agree with it.

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Or even better, how about that new Tornado? Haha, and Geko said they'd improve it.

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Geko said he would fix it, not improve it, unless i am mistaken. The power now functions exactly as describbed. I am not sure that I would want it, but it appears to be right on target for how its described.

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Well there is one thing I can say...

If something is broken, too weak or too strong, they will fix it.

The record of the game and the changes show it... They always get it right. It may take some weeks of evaluating and testing, but they WILL get it right. And this from the mouth of an invul tank that doesnt think invul needs anything beside ranged def in invinc.

Have faith... They know what they do. if its bad, they will revert it. They always do.
In States we trust!

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So question.. you find unstoppable useful? Do you even have it? You know a lot of tankers who use the new unstoppable? I agree that it was broken before, and overall i agree with the changes to invuln, but I am not sure I agree with your statments above. Since we are on the subject, are you pleased with ancillary powers for tankers? Do you feel they address "gaps" in tanker abilities? I respect your opinion, but not sure I agree with it.

Please dont change it. Please. PLEASE.

It's not that big a thing, I don't want changes to the inv/ss tanker at set combo.

In my opinion, rage should NOT be changed because

- Since teaming is encouraged (something I am not sure I am comfortable with, but that's a side issue), having a chance for toggle drop is good, since it means reliance on status protection from other at's.

- All equivilent changes such as an end drop, hp drop, etc would be worse than what you have now. I don't know how I feel about the disorient part of Rage (I personally don't have an issue with it, but maybe post 40 it's a big deal, I don't know).

- Why change it anyways? Who cares that people can make it perma.. is it that cool? Think of the issues that would involve changing it.. People would demand respecs, people who don't like it would drop it. It's a mess that isn't in balance to changing it.

- The possible changes that come to mind (and are evidentily coming from test, the end drop).... they make you feel less tank like. I'm Muscle Man, in melee with the evil thugs of the council, and in the middle of combat.. I gasp for breath and stand around, vulnerable and weak because I'm all tired. How heroic is that? My status protection is gone, my invinc is gone, and I am all pathetic. This is NOT a comic book feel.

Please, DON'T change Rage. PLEASE!