Nice work. 
So, um..there goes the 3 +3 minions=challenge...more like 20+4 minions
hrm so this means the update should come out any time now?
ok someone PLEASE translate for me. OH and while you're at it.. tell me who RUNS Assault/Tactics on a */da?! or an invul for that matter 
So, which of us is going to take the time to plot this on a graph and post a screenshot? We need an executive summary! 
Are the slashes and, or or arguments......
takes 20+ minions and 14-17 lt's and 0 bosses?
or
takes 20+ minions or 14-17 lt's......
must be and...so my first post here isn't even correct....
the 3 +3 minions= challenge should be: 20+(+2) minions + 15(+2) lt's= challenge
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Are the slashes and, or or arguments......
takes 20+ minions and 14-17 lt's and 0 bosses?
or
takes 20+ minions or 14-17 lt's......
must be and...so my first post here isn't even correct....
the 3 +3 minions= challenge should be: 20+ minions + 15 lt's= challenge
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Actually I'm pretty sure it is or, based on the previous test States described.
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ok someone PLEASE translate for me. OH and while you're at it.. tell me who RUNS Assault/Tactics on a */da?! or an invul for that matter
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Basically it's not a min/maxed build he's showing us. It doesn't have tough/weave 6 slotted out the wazoo or any of the cuttie cutter builds BUT it's not a gimped build. It's a build of what you might expect people to make, albiet the tactics/assault is rather strange.
What it does show is that in no way, shape or form is Regen a grossly overpowered set. Even with IH and Int full slotted for heals, Reconstruction full slotted for heals, and decent AoE attacks just a few +2 bosses were all that were required to take down the char.
All in all, I like these test results. I think it's fairly accurate to what I've seen.
Edit: It also shows that DA lags far behind the other sets.
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Level 45 (Invulnerability)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 4-5)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17-19 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
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Level 45 (Dark Armor)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (13 / 5 / 1)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (17 / 4 / 1)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (18 / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (18 / 3 / 0)
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So much for enemy psi damage being DA's specialty/Invul's weakness...
Quick question: You say you tested this with the 'nerfed' I4 numbers (at least, that's how I read this) for Regen. Did you also test with current live Regen? How about perma-Elude and perma-MoG builds?
Just at a quick glance, these numbers say to me:
Inv > SR ~= Regen >> DA.
Which is about the 'feel' I get from playing, so that helps.
Kam
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ok someone PLEASE translate for me. OH and while you're at it.. tell me who RUNS Assault/Tactics on a */da?! or an invul for that matter
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Its the conserve power....no other way to run it....and fight.
Sweet now i know i can take out 20+ minions at 30.....so as soon as my scrapper hits 30, im gonna bug it everytime i goto the hospital....do i get my debt reset?
Also noticed there was alot of 0's in the boss spot...does that mean the boss whacked the tester?
Out of curiosity, is the invuln build way past the smash/lethal cap for a scrapper? Not a criticism, I am making by chance a claws/invuln scrapper and am not planning that many slots for those.. so wondering why mine is different.
These are a lot better tests. Nice to see you did it with all the Scrapper secondaires and different levels as well. Very nice.
Finally, realistic results! What can we gather from this post? That invul is the most powerful by far, regen and SR are roughly equal, and DA is underpowered.
Bad news for all those invul guys...ouch. Their next on the chopping block I guess.
-Drexion
i think the slash means or, so it takes 20 minions or 17 lieuts etc.. cuz it certainly doesnt make sense if it's 'add' unless all attacks are ranged. i assume this just mean the hero just stand there and take the beatings until he gets knocked out i dont think you can make any attacks based on these end heavy builds.
actually can we see some demos? that way we dont have to ask about fighting conditions/strategies/enemy actions/formations etc.
I've never played a scrapper past say, level 10, so this is a pure outside observation. Seems as if Invul is the king of scrapper secondaries. Maybe I missread but if it takes 5-7 +2 bosses to reliably take out a level 30, and only 1, 2, or 3 for the rest, how does that equate to balance?
To me this seems as if the invul set is twice as good as any other set, even at high levels.
Are there other advantages for the other sets that I'm somehow missing?
does that mean it takes 0 +4 bosses to kill any scrapper then?.....that's the part throwing off the equasion.
The slashes are or arguments.
What I would LOVE to see is a scrapper put up what they believe the numbers SHOULD be.
How many +2 minions do you think you should be able to handle? How many +4 LT's?
Looking at the numbers here, I'm seeing numbers so high as to almost be laughable. Are people really complaining that they can't take more than a dozen LTs at once?
-Kendal
Wow, talk about giving us all the raw data straight out, eh Statesmen?
Its a little hard to anylize, but one thing I noticed is that you used spines as your primary for all of them. Its easy to see why it took so many minions to take them out, assuming you are attacking. Seeing as how Spines wreck minions with ease.
It seems that regen isnt that overpowered to me, compared to the other secondaries. Poor Dark Armor is still dead last!
As I promised, here are the results from our latest Scrapper tests. Hope that we don't have the errors we did previously. We adjusted the builds and mobs faced based upon your input (thanks!). This includes the changes made to Regeneration and Dark Armor.
Test conditions:
Half-full trays of store-bought inspirations
Numbers indicate number of enemies to bring hero down reliably
Enhancements at level single origin
INVULNERABILITY
Tested at 30, 35, 40, 45. Listed slotting as of 45.
Barb Swipe (3 damage)
Lunge (4 damage, 2 end reduction)
Spine Burst (4 damage, end reduction)
Quills (4 damage, 2 end reduction)
Build Up (1 to hit buff)
Ripper (4 damage, 1 recharge)
Resist Physical Damage (3 damage resist)
Temporary Invulnerability (2 end reduction, 4 damage resist)
Dull Pain (5 recharge, 1 heal)
Resist Elements (1 resist damage)
Unyielding (2 end reduction, 4 damage resist)
Resist Energies (3 damage resist)
Invincible (4 defense, 2 end reduction)
Tough Hide (1 defense)
Health (6 heal)
Stamina (6 end recovery)
Maneuvers (1 end reduction)
Assault (1 end reduction)
Tactics (1 end reduction)
Hasten (4 recharge)
Super Speed
Level 30 (Invulnerability)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 5-7)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 8-10 / 4-5)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses Minions (20+ / 15-20 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 9-14 / 0)
Level 35 (Invulnerability)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-20 / 3-4)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 9-14 / 5-7)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-20 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
Level 40 (Invulnerability)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 4-6 / 3-4)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 7-9)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17-20 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20 / 20+ / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
Level 45 (Invulnerability)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17-19 / 4)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 4-5)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-19 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17-19 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14-17 / 0)
REGENERATION
Tested at 30, 35, 40, 45. Listed slotting as of 45.
Barb Swipe (4 damage, 2 accuracy)
Spine Burst (4 damage, 2 accuracy)
Build Up (2 to hit buff, 4 recharge)
Quills (4 damage, 2 accuracy)
Ripper (4 damage, 2 accuracy)
Throw Spines (3 damage, 2 accuracy)
Quick Recovery (6 endurance recovery)
Dull Pain (3 healing)
Integration (6 healing)
Resilience (1 defense)
Instant Healing (6 healing)
Reconstruction (6 healing)
Revive (1 healing)
Health (1 healing)
Stamina (3 endurance recovery)
Hasten (6 recharge)
Superspeed
Level 30 (Regeneration)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 2)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 11 / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 3 / 1)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 6 / 1)
Level 35 (Regeneration)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 9 / 2)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 5 / 1)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17 / 1)
Level 40 (Regeneration)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 16 / 2)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14 / 2)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 14 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 9 / 1)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 4 / 1)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 4 / 0)
Level 45 (Regeneration)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 3)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 3)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 9 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 11 / 1)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 5 / 1)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (11 / 6 / 0)
SUPER REFLEXES
Tested at 30, 35, 40, 45. Listed slotting as of 45.
Lunge (1 damage)
Spine Burst (5 damage, 1 end reduction)
Impale (3 damage, 1 end reduction)
Quills (5 damage, 1 end reduction)
Ripper (5 damage, 1 end reduction)
Throw Spines (5 damage, 1 end reduction)
Focused Fighting (5 defense, 1 end reduction)
Focused Senses (5 defense, 1 end reduction)
Agile (1 defense)
Practiced Brawler (1 recharge)
Dodge (1 defense)
Lucky (2 defense)
Quickness (1 run speed)
Evasion (5 defense, 1 end reduction)
Stealth (5 defense, 1 end reduction)
Hurdle (1 jump)
Health (2 heal)
Stamina (6 recovery)
Combat (1 end reduction)
Super Jump (1 end reduction)
Hasten (6 recharge)
Focused Accuracy (3 to hit buff, 3 end reduction)
Level 30 (Super Reflexes)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (3 / 3 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (11 / 1 / 0)
Level 35 (Super Reflexes)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 13 / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (9 / 1 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (11 / 4 / 0)
Level 40 (Super Reflexes)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 15 / 2)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 2)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 15 / 2)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (13 / 3 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 4 / 1)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 6 / 0)
Level 45 (Super Reflexes)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 20+ / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 4)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 17 / 2)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 5 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 6 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (13 / 7 / 0)
DARK ARMOR
Tested at 30, 35, 40, 45. Listed slotting as of 45.
Lunge (4 damage)
Spine Burst (4 damage, 1 endurance reduction)
Barb Swipe (4 damage, 1 endurance reduction)
Quills (3 damage, 2 endurance reduction)
Ripper (3 damage, 2 endurance reduction)
Build Up (1 to hit buff, 1 recharge)
Impale (2 damage)
Dark Embrace (4 damage resist, 1 endurance reduction)
Death Shroud (4 damage, 1 endurance reduction)
Murky Cloud (3 damage resist, 2 endurance reduction)
Obsidian Shield (4 damage resist, 1 endurance reduction)
Dark Regeneration (1 healing, 3 endurance reduction, 2 recharge)
Cloak of Fear (2 fear, 1 endurance reduction, 1 to hit debuff)
Hasten (5 recharge)
Superspeed (1 speed)
Health (2 healing)
Stamina (6 endurance recovery)
Assault (2 endurance reduction)
Tactics (2 endurance reduction)
Conserve Power (2 endurance recovery)
Level 30 (Dark Armor)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 11 / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (2 / 1 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (7 / 1 / 0)
Level 35 (Dark Armor)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 4 / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 7 / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (6 / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (14 / 2 / 0)
Level 40 (Dark Armor)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (20+ / 3 / 0)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (17 / 5 / 0)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (11 / 4 / 0)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (4 / 1 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (4 / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (4 / 2 / 0)
Level 45 (Dark Armor)
+2 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (17 / 6 / 1)
+2 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (13 / 5 / 1)
+2 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (17 / 4 / 1)
+4 hero level Behemoth Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (18 / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Rikti Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (18 / 2 / 0)
+4 hero level Carnival Minions/Lieutenants/Bosses (18 / 3 / 0)