Are the Developers looking into fixing Hollows?
By
1stLancer,
Posted on: 2004-09-23 24:20 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
For my personal enjoyment, I hope the Dev's leave it like it is... . .I made two new characters this past weekend a MA/regen scrapper and a Fire/FF controller. I was able to solo the kill 10 missions with both these builds at level 6.
My controller at lvl 7 had to team with a Ice/Storm controller (lvl 6) and a KIN/ergy defender (lvl 7) and we did the clear outcast base missions. No deaths for me (the ice controller accidently ran into the boss at the end and died) and lots of fun.
My scrapper solo'd the first mission at lvl 7 but I had to run, a lot.
I used to be able to zombie-walk through the first 12 levels and never even sniff a death. All these new critters have made the early game a heckava lot more fun, IMHO.
I wish your experience with the new content had been a good as mine. If you are on Guardian, and see Stalking Wolf running around, send me a tell and I will be more than glad to help.
There is nothing wrong with the Hollows. The mobs get progressively harder as you move into the zone. Up front its 7, 8 9 and 10s no different than PP and the groups are smaller than PP. I have run 2 of my same level alts through that zone since launch and had no problems with it. Are you perhaps refering to missions generated in Hollows? Then I can see where the problem might lie but street trash was not all that big a deal to me. Maybe its people unused to dealing with Trolls and Outcasts and tactics need to be adjusted.
Please clarify exactly what it is you find more difficult about Hollows vs Kings Row vs PP so I can see your perspective.
There were many pages of posts about the difficulty of the new Outcasts in the Hollows in the Training Room (test server forum). Sadly near all were ignored by the devs. I think it's a safe bet the difficulty will stand. Call me crazy but I agree with a lot of the testers posts on on the Training room forum, if unchanged then in a few months the Hollows will be like Faultline, and PP will go back to bursting at the seams.
From what I understand (haven't taken a new character to the Hollows yet) the first mission your contact outside the Hollows gives you is only to introduce yourself to the contact inside, and then come back. You don't have to take Hollows missions at that point unless you choose to.
Is this correct?
yea, its not neccesary to do the hollows missions.
You don't have to do anything on The Hollows if you don't want to.
Your second contact is the one that tells you to go and talk to some guy there. Once you go and talk to him, he becomes a new contact. After that you can go and continue you second contact's missions (W/o doing any of TH's misions).
Once you reach a good level, go inside and do the missions.
TH is a Hazard Zone, and like with any other Hazard Zone you go either with a good group, or when you're 3 levels higher than the lowers level mob when soloing. I don't remember ever being able to solo Perez Park with any type of char at lvl 7-8. Same with any other Hazard Zone.
Do you want something easier to solo? Stay inside AP or KR.
ps: Just a friendly advice 
Actually your first trip to the Hollows is at level 5. Your second contact tells you to talk to the officer. Once you talk to him you can leave and as of recent patches he is now right by the entrance surrounded by drones AND they lowered the levels of the mobs near the entrance.
You don't have to do the officer's missions right away, just talking to him (and getting him as a contact) is enough for the first mission and you can return and do the regular missions you're used to.
Yes you can get sent to the Hollows at 6 or higher with door missions but I've actually gotten a door mission in Perez at 6th level before, and I've gotten Boomtown missions in level 18-19 spawn areas while level 16. Sometimes door missions spawn in tough areas of a zone that you are of a level to go to, its somewhat random.
I remember being annoyed at my first mission out of the tutorial being in the very SW corner of Atlas Park in the red area and it takes a long time to run there and back. The Hollows is pretty equivalent to Perez Park with its spawn levels (actually its starts off a couple levels lower than Perez with the spawn levels fixed near the AP entry) and is designed for pretty much the same exact levels (Hollows is 5-15, PP is 6-15).
We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Oh c'mon...I hated Skulls and Hellions because they lacked spice. Please don't give into those who want easy-mode 
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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you just rendered my rant not worth typing.
Thanks SM!
As far as tuning-down goes, I'd just like to say that (except for stuns and sleeps) I like seeing the variety of powers when fighting a bunch of Outcast minions. It's the lieutenants and bosses (Shockers, especially) that are nuts, I think. Haven't played a low-level alt since they got tuned down the first time, though, so my opinion may no longer be valid.
My problem with the Hollows was that I couldn't find any of the low level guys so I had to get a group to hunt 8s.
I think that's just because the Hollows is new, so *everyone* is there, and they ran out of the lowest levels of enemies. Soon the newness will ware off and there will be a more normal amount of people there. That might make the difficulty more reasonable all by itself.
Statesman:
I love the new Outcast powers, in fact it's probably one of my three favorite things about the new update. They're very challenging to face, but employing reasonable tactics they're not impossible. Any halfway decent group should be able to face the Outcast without fear.
I'm begging you to collect data for another few weeks before making these adjustments because I think the existing player base just needs to learn to adapt new strategies for facing these devious foes.
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
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As far as tuning-down goes, I'd just like to say that (except for stuns and sleeps) I like seeing the variety of powers when fighting a bunch of Outcast minions. It's the lieutenants and bosses (Shockers, especially) that are nuts, I think. Haven't played a low-level alt since they got tuned down the first time, though, so my opinion may no longer be valid.
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I agree with this. I like the electric blasts and stuff that the Outcast minions do. Much better than guns. The Shockers having a healing power is a tad much, though. Maybe if it just had a longer recharge timer.
I was able to beat the Lead Shocker, but not by as much as other bosses. He was mainly a problem when he had huricane going at the same time as that cloud that shocks you all the time. Maybe he could be toned down a little, but I'm not gonna be upset if he isn't.
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Statesman:
I love the new Outcast powers, in fact it's probably one of my three favorite things about the new update. They're very challenging to face, but employing reasonable tactics they're not impossible. Any halfway decent group should be able to face the Outcast without fear.
I'm begging you to collect data for another few weeks before making these adjustments because I think the existing player base just needs to learn to adapt new strategies for facing these devious foes.
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Would you care to shed a light on this gem of wisdom you posess? What new strategies are important in these zones? More Conrollers? Nope, because controllers don't AoE hold at those low levels. More Defenders? Nope, they were already highly desirable. More Tanks? Nope, they too are already highly desirable at that level. More Scrappers? Nope, since there's not much AoE at these levels, Scrappers are as valuable as Blasters (perhaps more so).
Does it mean more hit and run raids to dwindle mobs? More pulls? Perhaps, but how heroic do you feel doing that? I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just doesn't make feel like a very super superhero. Does it mean more full groups of 6 to 8? Yes, it does. However not every player can spend all night waiting and hoping to get into a group. The few who are like me, who organzie groups find it takes a great deal of time, and it requires continual re-recruiting as players log out/quit.
I like to think I'm well versed in strategy. Every strategy I come up with for the new difficulty has a downside. Granted, most did before too, however the difference is much more dramatic now.
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Please don't, matey. If anything, please give more individual powers to Skulls and Hellions minions. Truly.
I don't find Troll and Outcast minions to be particularly dangerous - I think the minions are perfect as they are. I have some issue with Lead Shockers (Thunder Strike doing about half a same level Tank's life in one hit + stun = too much ow), but that's about it.
The minions appear to be dangerous because they use powers that are beyond what we think of as minion powers at the lower levels, but they don't actually seem to do more damage than a Skull or Hellion minion, particularly the bat or sledge-wielders.
Uh... no, outcast minions do a LOT more damage than hellions or skulls. Stone punch and Ice punch especially hurt, as well as the electric blasts from the shocker minions. The DoT from the scorcher minions really swallows up the hp in a surprising amount of time. I'm glad to see the change, really.
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The level you receive the first mission is at level 6, which is way to low, in my case it was from my only contact so I have to do it
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WRONG!
the first mission from your first SL 1 contact is to go to Lt. D.W. in The Hollows . . . nothing more. all you have to do is click Lt. D.W. and then walk out. YOU NEVER HAVE TO DO A HOLLOWS MISSION EVER.
i didnt do my first mission for Lt. D.W. until about level 10.
Statesman, maybe you should just change the introduction to Lt. D.W. "mission" into just your typical run of the mill "introduction" to avoid this confusion . . . which leads to more whining . . . which leads to you dumbing down even mroe of the game . . . which leads to very boring game play . . .
i find it very odd, Statesman, that a week before Update 2 hits live you let slip your "3 whites = challenging" plans and instead of using Update 2 as a sort of precursor to implementing those changes you piece by piece give into the whines and dumb everything down . . . please, stop. the whines will never stop, the more you give in the more they will want. make a stand. come hang out with us challenge hungry players over on this side of the fence . . . we'll treat ya alot better.
Its amazing how people cry when they cant go and **** every group without being scathed.
Last i checked, Batman, Punisher, Spiderman, Superman, Green Lantern, Fantastic 4, All of the Xmen: All of them got their [censored] beat on more than one occassion by rushing into a large group of villains with no plan. Same should apply to stupid players.
As for tactics:
Its called tactics for a reason. Say have a blaster snipe and draw aggro, pulling the group. Runs behind a building, watches the mob rush to him. (This would be like LTs and such, say outcasts in particular. They would have all cast their initial powers, which happens to be their strongest most of the time) he runs to the other side of the building as they come into view, and the mob continues to follow, rushing into the hero group, ignoring them because their real beef is with the blaster. This is when that group goes nuts and kills em.
Also works with taunt. Drawing them close eliminates the range advantage most villains have, and lets tanks and scrappers go to work on them with relative ease. Of course a controller helps: very good for holding the group in place while the melee's go to town.
Tactics arent hard to devise my friend. It just seems some people aren't as prone to using the majority of their brains to create them.
Who said he was giving in because of the whines? How do you know what was happening inside Cryptic?
Maybe they were split internally over the difficulty and players put them more in the direction of easing up.
Maybe they just plain didn't intend for it to be as difficult as it was.
Maybe NCSoft is twisting their arms
Maybe they planned to ease up the difficulty all along but have been focusing on stabilization and other more pressing issues.
All this aside. Players groaning for more difficulty could be described as whining as well. Whining that it not be changed. Have you read many of the posts out there?
Even putting that aside. You have a split player base. One side wants more challenge the other less. Which side do you lean towards? It's always better to lean towards easier. Most players don't quit because something is too easy (granted some do, but most don't). However, difficulty is the opposite. Most players will give up on something too difficult, and with the market being as competitive as it is now, quitting is very easy for them to do.
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Its amazing how people cry when they cant go and **** every group without being scathed.
Last i checked, Batman, Punisher, Spiderman, Superman, Green Lantern, Fantastic 4, All of the Xmen: All of them got their [censored] beat on more than one occassion by rushing into a large group of villains with no plan. Same should apply to stupid players.
As for tactics:
Its called tactics for a reason. Say have a blaster snipe and draw aggro, pulling the group. Runs behind a building, watches the mob rush to him. (This would be like LTs and such, say outcasts in particular. They would have all cast their initial powers, which happens to be their strongest most of the time) he runs to the other side of the building as they come into view, and the mob continues to follow, rushing into the hero group, ignoring them because their real beef is with the blaster. This is when that group goes nuts and kills em.
Also works with taunt. Drawing them close eliminates the range advantage most villains have, and lets tanks and scrappers go to work on them with relative ease. Of course a controller helps: very good for holding the group in place while the melee's go to town.
Tactics arent hard to devise my friend. It just seems some people aren't as prone to using the majority of their brains to create them.
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When it's changed, can't you go and do this to oranges and get MORE xp for doing it? When it's changed can't players who aren't as good as you do this to whites and get MORE xp for doing it?
Are you really advocating for a lose/lose scenario? Think about it. You get your challenge AND more xp to boot. This is bad because...why?
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Actually your first trip to the Hollows is at level 5. Your second contact tells you to talk to the officer. Once you talk to him you can leave and as of recent patches he is now right by the entrance surrounded by drones AND they lowered the levels of the mobs near the entrance.
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That's nice to know. It was kind of (read: extremely) annoying to be forced (all contacts gave the same mission) at level 5 to go to the Hollows and get creamed by level 14 Trolls standing between the entrance and the contact. Haven't been back since.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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In the levels we're talking about, 5 to 15 no one can take a fully stocked group of whites alone (maybe pre SG fix, but not now). Does it mean more full groups of 6 to 8? Yes, it does.
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(you explained it perfectly, although in two different posts)
NOOOOO! The Hollows is my favorite Zone! I love the new Outcast! They are the only faction in the game with a wide variety of powers and they finally match their description. The old Outcast were too generic and didn't really stand out from the other humdrum enemies available at that level.
I can see where many people are upset that the Hollows is tough, but the majority of the players complaining are playing Solo. I have NOTHING against solo. The Hollows is a TRIAL ZONE that is supposed to be balanced for groups of 5-8 players. As it stands, I can group with 2 or 3 people and lay waste to groups of 10 even con Outcast, so I really don't think they need toned down. (That's with a Scrapper, Blaster and Defender)
BUT, if the Outcast are to be toned down, then bring them back in the late game with full powers. I want to see them in the 30+ game (perhaps all the way to 50) where the enemies have any of the currently available (and soon to be released) powers that players have. I want to see a group of Outcasts with characters like Frostfire in them (THE single coolest badguy in game (so far)). If Frostfire gets nerfed, I'm going to get a Nerf (tm) bat and take a trip to California... 
Cyclone Jack
-= idspispopd =-
[size=1]Arc ID: 3155 - Project Prometheus (Seeking Feedback, now with less invalidation)[/size]
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Would you care to shed a light on this gem of wisdom you posess? ... *snip* .... The few who are like me, who organzie groups find it takes a great deal of time, and it requires continual re-recruiting as players log out/quit.
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If you're in a group that's dying lots... someone's not playing nice with the others. An organized group with a balance of archetypes can take just about anything within their level range and then some. It just requires teamwork. Simple as that.
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n the levels we're talking about, 5 to 15 no one can take a fully stocked group of whites alone (maybe pre SG fix, but not now). So I don't know what you're talking about.
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I can. With my Fire/Dev blaster, Fire/Fire tanker, Katana / Regen can, and with my Force Field / Energy Blast defender. It make take a few ( a lot of) inpspirations, but it's doable. Now if you're talking about just charging in and trying to nuke 'em / slash 'em / bash 'em all down while they all beat on you... no, not going to happen. But if you play smart, use the terrain to your advantage and know how to fully use all your powers, you can take 'em.
My first FF Defender did not take the Force Bolt power. I have no clue why I didn't, but this time I did... and wow. It's a great little power, especially combined with all the knockback effects of the Energy blast powerset. A single mob is lucky to get in one or two hits on me while I blast away. Pin 'em in a corner... behind a barrel or something that makes them jump around and then knock 'em back in the corner. Or run out of range and que the Force Bolt to fire immediately when they get in range and then smash a blast attack.
There's plenty of ways to wear down your foes with hit-n-run attacks before you deliver the final blow. You just have to play smarter.
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Uh... no, outcast minions do a LOT more damage than hellions or skulls. Stone punch and Ice punch especially hurt, as well as the electric blasts from the shocker minions. The DoT from the scorcher minions really swallows up the hp in a surprising amount of time. I'm glad to see the change, really.
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Um, actually... I can stand there and take Outcast blaster attacks far longer than I can take Skull / Hellion baseball bat attacks. They're much weaker than the typical minion melee attack.
The level you receive the first mission is at level 6, which is way to low, in my case it was from my only contact so I have to do it. Next when I went through it before with my other low character the outcasts/trolls kept getting stuck in the walls and stairs.
The first time I went through the hollows I died many, many times this with a level 7 now 8 scrapper with 2 friends (defender/blaster or scrapper) eventually we had to have one of our mains come through and help out. I love a challenge debt generally dont bother me but this is just silly.
ps this is not ment to be w hiney thing just a question. I generally think these are the best devs I have run into.