Are the Developers looking into fixing Hollows?
By
1stLancer,
Posted on: 2004-09-23 24:20 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
There are changes to the outcast coming, when you reach higher level the mobs get extremely more difficult, Tsoo sorcs are crap to storm shaman. Family leuts and boss like to disorient with there punches the minions stuns have been decreased all the way to one percent chance of stunning. Tsoo gets even more tougher with the inkmen and the various bosses. Devouring earth, Rikti, Malta, carnival etc are difficult. You might as well hang up now if you think its going to get better when you reach higher level. But the outcast bosses and leuts have been toned down in training room it will get better for you.
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I don't think that street-hunting is an issue with anyone, except for the Trolls and Outcast who are over-powered now. The problem is in the door missions.
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No, street hunting is an issue. What Miss K. is advocating is that if people want a challenge, they go find yellow/orange cons somewhere. Since we can't do this in missions, that means the people that want a challenge are forced to go streen hunting somewhere. Meaning that people that want the challenge have to ignore the best thing about this game, the missions.
If they leave the missions as they are, the people that are lazy and want easy street, they can just out level their missions and then do them.
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I don't think that street-hunting is an issue with anyone, except for the Trolls and Outcast who are over-powered now. The problem is in the door missions.
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No, street hunting is an issue. What Miss K. is advocating is that if people want a challenge, they go find yellow/orange cons somewhere. Since we can't do this in missions, that means the people that want a challenge are forced to go streen hunting somewhere. Meaning that people that want the challenge have to ignore the best thing about this game, the missions.
If they leave the missions as they are, the people that are lazy and want easy street, they can just out level their missions and then do them.
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
Doubled the Duration of Discipline, Strength of Will and Iron Will Inspirations. This will help also with the stunning holding immobolizing sleeping 
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There are changes to the outcast coming, when you reach higher level the mobs get extremely more difficult, Tsoo sorcs are crap to storm shaman. Family leuts and boss like to disorient with there punches the minions stuns have been decreased all the way to one percent chance of stunning. Tsoo gets even more tougher with the inkmen and the various bosses. Devouring earth, Rikti, Malta, carnival etc are difficult. You might as well hang up now if you think its going to get better when you reach higher level. But the outcast bosses and leuts have been toned down in training room it will get better for you.
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Who says anything about hanging up? I'm looking forward to the high-level content, despite how easy or hard it will be. The point is, by that time, a character will have plenty of powers, primary and secondary, to be able to come up with a good strategy for any situation. When you're in the lower levels, you just don't have that many options, and the options you DO have are negated by all the holds and stuns.
All I am trying to say is be pateint the outcast are getting dumbed down I tested it.
If there anything else you want me to test tell me I be most happy to. Maybe you want me to test the bricks stunning amount?
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.
*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.
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All I am trying to say is be pateint the outcast are getting dumbed down I tested it.
If there anything else you want me to test tell me I be most happy to. Maybe you want me to test the bricks stunning amount?
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I AM patient. Don't worry. I know they're working on it. It just irks me to no end that some people just fail to see other people's points in this matter.
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.
*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.
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STILL not calling anyone names, huh?
The "lazy whiners", pre-patch #2, were all the people saying how the game had become too easy.
BTW - Sorry to keep bothering you about this, but have you tried that Hollows mission with a Tanker yet?
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.
*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.
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Agreed with the end of mission xp and the yellow mobs and red leuts I havent outleveled a mission yet. My fire tank took on two red bosses, a freakshow tank and a warrior slasher elite man it was the toughest fight I ever been on and I had only one respite and all of my powers do not have a single so burn was worthless, then provoke had a hard time hitting so they kept running out. Gotta love energy melle . I love these type of challenges gonna miss them when they fix mission I hope states hurry and get the slider.
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.
*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.
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Agreed with the end of mission xp and the yellow mobs and red leuts I havent outleveled a mission yet. My fire tank took on two red bosses, a freakshow tank and a warrior slasher elite man it was the toughest fight I ever been on and I had only one respite and all of my powers do not have a single so burn was worthless, then provoke had a hard time hitting so they kept running out. Gotta love energy melle . I love these type of challenges gonna miss them when they fix mission I hope states hurry and get the slider.
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See, another player happy with the new difficulty, and I'm happy for you! BUT you're not talking about low-level missions here, and that's where the problem is.
I hope that I understood it correctly that the patch will fix the low-level missions only, and not touch the high-level content. That way everyone will be happy.
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The "lazy whiners", pre-patch #2, were all the people saying how the game had become too easy.
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Whiners yes, lazy no. I was one of the ones complaining the entire game was too easy from the beginning... I want more challenge. I hardly think that's being lazy.
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BTW - Sorry to keep bothering you about this, but have you tried that Hollows mission with a Tanker yet?
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Yes I did. I got all the way through the mission to Electric Eel and he killed me as I expected. I changed my tactics and inspirations and beat him. Fire / Fire tanker. Would've been much eaiser without Hurricane going, but oh well. Then it wouldn't have been a challenge.
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See, another player happy with the new difficulty, and I'm happy for you! BUT you're not talking about low-level missions here, and that's where the problem is.
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Look, I've done just fine solo and grouped with various AT's and non uber build AT's and you keep complaining and ignoring them. You're welcome to join my ignore list with Vegetable since you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that hte missions can be beaten.
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Whiners yes, lazy no. I was one of the ones complaining the entire game was too easy from the beginning... I want more challenge. I hardly think that's being lazy.
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But isn't the game constructed in such a way that you can PICK your level of challenge? If you want it "safe" you can fight greens and blues, you want it "hard" you go for the yellows, oranges and reds. Even pre-patch, missions had those. Not as many as there are now, but they were there.
On a related note: "lazy" is hardly the word I would be using. "Easy" I can agree with, but not "lazy". After all, EXCLUSIVELY fighting blues and greens would take you DOUBLE the time to get to the next level than if you would take on, say, whites and yellow exclusively. Thus, not lazy, since working hard is the exact opposite of that.
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Yes I did. I got all the way through the mission to Electric Eel and he killed me as I expected. I changed my tactics and inspirations and beat him. Fire / Fire tanker. Would've been much eaiser without Hurricane going, but oh well. Then it wouldn't have been a challenge.
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Okay, I have to keep being an [censored] about this, I can't help it. Did you try it with an Invul Tanker, like I did? Fire/Fire is an über-build (from what I've read on the boards) and has an AoE power.
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See, another player happy with the new difficulty, and I'm happy for you! BUT you're not talking about low-level missions here, and that's where the problem is.
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Look, I've done just fine solo and grouped with various AT's and non uber build AT's and you keep complaining and ignoring them. You're welcome to join my ignore list with Vegetable since you seem to be ignoring all the evidence that hte missions can be beaten.
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Not gonna happen. I never walk away from a lively debate.
And evidence? What evidence? I could just as easily make a movie of my character being defeated by Eel, and all YOU would keep telling me is: USE TACTICS.
And you'd be name-calling of course.
I mean labeling.
You made a movie of your victorious fight? Whoop-dee-doo! How do I know you just didn't get lucky? You have NO EVIDENCE! Luck plays an important part in this game, whether you like it or not. Mayhaps even more so than tactics and choosing the right powers.
Hello All
I was the origianal poster. I read some awsome arguments for and against "fixeing' hollows. problem there are to many personal atacks and tangents.
From reading what I could the devs are fixing some things on test. and are working are the uber frustrateing mobs in stairs/walls trick.
can anyone post a summary of what is actually getting fixed?
ps seeing as there are many posts liek this around maybe they the devs or what ever can post there intended fixes/workarounds and make it a sticky
thanks bunches
-vritue
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You mean after the nerf. Once again the vocal minority (the whiny people on the forums) will get their way in yet another game. It's utter BS. The game should be challenging from level 1 to 50. Period. Otherwise people will fly through the first ten, twelve levels playing one way and get smacked around when they enter Steel Canyon and face some Tsoo.
They'll whine and gripe about it and maybe quit when they get frustrated because they didn't learn how to play the game properly in the lower levels.
People that want a challenge should not be forced to skip content (missions) just to find something challenging to fight. Less - skilled players can group to do their missions or street hunt til the missions are easier for them. Either way, they get all the content. If we did things your stupid way, the bored players would only be left with street hunting.
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You truely have no clue how game development works do you? Do you really think the devs simply read the message board and act on what's said here? While I'll admit, there is the rare occasion they do but for the most part they do not. They rely on their own in game metrics to make decisions about what to change and what not to. Why rely on numbers from a message board, which equal a few hundred, when they can rely on numbers from the game which equal 180,000??? To assume they rely on the message is total and complete ignorance and insanity.
As for the bored players, as you call them, they will get their mission challenge when the difficulty slider is done. In the meantime you can always kindly ask a friend or SG mate to join your team just to bump up the difficulty. Then take the bumped mission solo. I've done that more than a few times and it works great.
That shouldn't be the way, I have to sit there and bother someone with there gaming to team up everytime I finish a mission just so I can bump my difficulty up. Thats like me telling you if the mission is to hard you should outlevel your contact and then go back to it. Neither of those choices are fair to either player. But when the slider comes we can at least make a choice of what we want.
Low level fire fire tanker sucks its not really great till they reach 18. Oh yeah just wanted to say my fire tanker is energy secondary and its not uber as its cracked up to be play one you will see its flaws. A dependency in a powerpool already might aswell say it, gimps it.
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Statesman, please keep them a little tougher than Skulls and Hellions!
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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.
You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.
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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.
*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.
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I don't know if you are just trying to get peoples goat or if you are really this mis-informed.
I know with my level 10 Broadsword/Regen scrapper, It's pretty much impossible for me to solo the electric eel mission. He's red con to me and pretty much takes half my life in the first round. I've tried variations of inspiration combos to try and take him down, but I just can't do it. Running away and doing hit and runs has not worked so well either. At least 4 out of the 6 times i've tried that, Eel has disappered inside a flight of steps so that I can't hit him. Even if I could, He just does too much damage too quickly for my scrapper to compensate with.
I'm pretty sure you have no insights into this problem, you're just being argumentative because you like to.
Another voice for keeping the powers on Outcasts and Trolls. I love these guys now. They love me back with debt, sure, but its the first taste a low level character gets of real superhero fights. They are harder than other villians of similar level and con, if you can fix that issue without making them back into basic gangers, I suspect you'll please more people than you will by just stripping powers.
eel can be taken out (at least as a 10 DM/Regen) with the following insps:
3x Luck, 2x Insight 2x enrage 1x discipline
Insight more than compensates for his hurricane, Luck nearly lowers his accuracy (so he won't hit enough with his big melee to matter vs reconstruction) and with 2 enrages he was done before the discipline ran out.
I had slotted 4 enhancements in each of my attacks, and 3 in reconstruction, and had hasten up.
He can be done, but it cost me a ton of debt to work it out.
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The problem is that you have people who've never played a computer game before (like my wife) trying this game. I personally like the fact that she's stuck with it. She's getting frustrated with some of her alts in the hollows now, and she's a reasonably experienced player. If she came here on the first night she played, she probably wouldn't have bothered coming back.
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Actually, I would go a little further than this. I regularly play with my husband. I get upset when I die repeatedly, and he doesn't. I think this is due to his background playing video games, where dying is no big deal. Personally, I have always disliked video games. Besides, I'm supposed to be a superhero in this game. How often does Batman, Superman, or Wonder Woman have to go to the hospital?
Typically, we are both good players, and when we play together, we don't die repeatedly, but there are some exceptions... namely PP and the Hollows. I have a few alts, and I have had bad experiences in both of these zones. In PP, I have a lvl 8 mission that I died 3 times trying to get to. Now my scrapper is lvl 10. I can't invite others to a mission with such bad exp. now, I have to solo it, but... I still can't get there without dying... and this toon is a scrapper. Maybe a couple more levels.
The Hollows also has this problem, that it's really tough to get to your mission without dying. The mission is far from the zone, the mobs en-route have status effects. I have a toon with no status defenses. Last time I was in one of these missions, I begged the people in the mission to go to the mission as a group, so I wouldn't die, but... they would just run ahead... some of them were tanks or scrappers... lots of HP... and inside, the mission was just too tough. I have taken a vow not to go back there for those missions. And I am pretty sure I am not the only one, because I have discussed this with other players and most don't want to go there. In fact I heard one player, in Atlas Park, broadcast about a mission to the Hallows, and part of his pitch was "WHO WANTS SOME DEBT?" Need I say more?
amen smile100
although I must say it is much easier as a blaster then a scrapper. my blaster actually soled both outcast misions my scrapper and controller needed groups.
it is nottactics either I have another scrapper that I played till 22 I know how to play one at least in low levels and that seems hardes because i have few powers still.
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Just wanna say lol they are getting dumbed down so no worries, shame but ohwell. I just dont see how they are overpowered at your level really. The Tsoo are more tougher then them at this point. But again they are getting dumbed down so no worries.
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Another thing.
Two WHITE-conning Bricks getting my level 13 Invul Tanker into the RED by repeatedly stunning me and shutting off Temp Invul, only to bash me into a bloody pulp, before I can even get ONE of them to croak, and you don't see a problem?