Are the Developers looking into fixing Hollows?
By
1stLancer,
Posted on: 2004-09-23 24:20 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Fewer powers
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Keep in mind, we have no idea what he means here. They might have Stamina, or some other unseen power. They might have Flares and Fire bolt and they're losing the flares. Lets wait and see.
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Fewer powers
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Keep in mind, we have no idea what he means here. They might have Stamina, or some other unseen power. They might have Flares and Fire bolt and they're losing the flares. Lets wait and see.
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I hope this refers to the lieutenants and bosses with ninth-tier powers, not the minions with first- and second-tier.
Those were great for flavor.
--GF
Up with the overworld! Up with exploration! | Want a review of your arc?
My arcs: Dream Paper (ID: 1874) | Bricked Electronics (ID: 2180) | The Bravuran Jobs (ID: 5073) | Backwards Day (ID: 329000) | Operation Fair Trade (ID: 391172)
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Fewer powers
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Keep in mind, we have no idea what he means here. They might have Stamina, or some other unseen power. They might have Flares and Fire bolt and they're losing the flares. Lets wait and see.
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I think leuts and bosses should stay the same just get rid of hurricane on bosses. But I agree with you lets wait and see 
I dont' know... I can do with out the Thunder Strike and Lightning Storm (a lvl 32 power) being used by 6th level bosses, and this doesn't even mention all the other powers the same bosses use. I say getting rid of those 2 would be a good idea. The other powers the bosses have, maybe keep.
Recently Added To The Training Room: 9/23/04:
KNOWN ISSUES
Sidekick buttons do not work. The button to form a sidekick relationship is not available in the Actions window, the Team window, the right-click menu, or the Friends window. You can form a sidekick relationship using the /sidekick command. We're working on an update to correct this issue at this time.
Game Stability
Fixed bug which caused players to occasionally crash out of the game when trading with Ghost.
Fixed bug with Info window which could crash the client if the user requested target had changed before the server got the request (dying villain, mapmoving player).
Fixed rare crash which could occur if the Search Window was in use.
Missions
Changed the first task of the Sister Psyche Task Force mission.
Changed the first task of the Synapse Task Force mission.
Changed the first task of the Bastion Task Force mission
Fixed a bug affecting some missions that prevented players other than the one originally assigned the mission from being given rewards for completing the mission.
City Zones:
The Hollows: Changed the position of the contacts Julius the Troll and Flux. They should be easier to get to now.
Badges:
Fixed the Head of the Hydra badge. It is now awarded correctly.
Powers:
Fixed Devouring Earth Plant resistance (was taking double damage to fire).
Fixed Devouring Earth Mushroom resistance (was taking double damage to lethal).
Modified (toned down) Outcast powers (Lts and Bosses).
Modified (toned down) Troll powers (Lts and Bosses).
Limited Tsoo\ss availability of Caltrops
Improved Clear Mind duration to 90 seconds. Allowed stacking and improvement over level. (updated help text).
Fixed bug with Medicine/Stimulant. Duration was longer than Clear Mind and is now 60 seconds. Allowed stacking and improvement over level. (updated help text).
Reduced duration of Rikti communications officer\ss portal.
Fixed (Increased) Hamidon Heal and Travel Enhancements.
Fixed Spines/Ripper system chat message. System chat reported Ripper did smashing damage, but it really does Lethal.
Fixed short help for Elude (it still said it was a toggle though it is a Click power now).
Modified Hamidon.
Modified Sewer Kraken Defense.
Doubled the Duration of Discipline, Strength of Will and Iron Will Inspirations.
More f/x changes to Blizzard (no change to power with this change, just visual f/x).
Fixed an inaccuracy in damage calculation which could give pet owners who heal their pets XP when their pets are killed
Not bad changes
Thanks for posting the list. Looks good so far. It'll be interesting to see some the details when they become available.
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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I dunno, I like the new Trolls and Outcast minions. It's the lieutenants and bosses that are nasty.
The problem is not that they have the powers its that trolls and outcasts need to level up to use the extra powers. At higher levels the extra powers are fair, But not at level 5.
I posted this earlier on a diffrent thread.
You need to be about level 15 to be fairly matched in powers versus the liutenats and bosses of outcasts. Roll the level 14's and less Ouctcasts back to the way they were before. And call the 15's and higher Elementals and let them keep them the same. Like they way the lost types are diffrentiated. And for the trolls 12's and less should be rolled back 13's and higher could have the Stone type. Basically the less experinced shouldnt have as many powers.
The Legendary Cosmological Prince Reigar 53rd Illusion Control/Storm Summoning/Primal Forces Mastery/Incarnate
It's a dark and story night. That means something bad is happening out there
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[censored], 4 freaking pages, and no one bothers with the problem he mentioned, just jibber jabber about the zone.
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I do believe I made a comment on what he originally posted about. Go back and reread the forum, please, before you make a statement like that.
COme on Stateman dont do that.... dont let the complaints of the few destrot the fun for many... dont give in... the new outcasts are great. Please dont reduce them..the game really is more fun.
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Statesman:
I love the new Outcast powers, in fact it's probably one of my three favorite things about the new update. They're very challenging to face, but employing reasonable tactics they're not impossible. Any halfway decent group should be able to face the Outcast without fear.
I'm begging you to collect data for another few weeks before making these adjustments because I think the existing player base just needs to learn to adapt new strategies for facing these devious foes.
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Would you care to shed a light on this gem of wisdom you posess? What new strategies are important in these zones? More Conrollers? Nope, because controllers don't AoE hold at those low levels. More Defenders? Nope, they were already highly desirable. More Tanks? Nope, they too are already highly desirable at that level. More Scrappers? Nope, since there's not much AoE at these levels, Scrappers are as valuable as Blasters (perhaps more so).
Does it mean more hit and run raids to dwindle mobs? More pulls? Perhaps, but how heroic do you feel doing that? I'm not saying it's wrong, it's just doesn't make feel like a very super superhero. Does it mean more full groups of 6 to 8? Yes, it does. However not every player can spend all night waiting and hoping to get into a group. The few who are like me, who organzie groups find it takes a great deal of time, and it requires continual re-recruiting as players log out/quit.
I like to think I'm well versed in strategy. Every strategy I come up with for the new difficulty has a downside. Granted, most did before too, however the difference is much more dramatic now.
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Actually controllers do AoE hold at those levels, it's called Flash.
To another post, no, people are not in the Hollows because it's 'new' and later it will be empty. The second contact (after the first one in Galaxy or Atlas) was (at least for me) the policeman in the Hollows. After a few missions, you get the third contact in Galaxy or whatever, so I was there to do my contact missions.
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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I have to concur with those who say this is the wrong path -- the Skulls and Hellions should be made more like the Outcasts and Trolls.
As it stands, Skulls and Hellions below the Boss level are just punks with guns, so why actually do the police need our help with them? I can see why they'd have their hands full with Outcasts.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
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Would you care to shed a light on this gem of wisdom you posess? What new strategies are important in these zones?
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The word you're looking for here is teamwork. Before the patch just about any pickup group could go out and street sweep, no matter how bad the group dynamics were. It was just too easy! The new difficulty level really requires the player to work together more closely in order to be effective, and of course the best way to be effective is when each player fulfills their role. The Controllers figure out the best bad guy to shut off, the tanker takes the heat off the blasters, the blasters trust that their defenders will have their backs, and the scrappers tear down the bosses.
Even a low level team can pull off mighty victories if they can cooperate!
Lady Deacon, 50 ill/ff
Cinder Imp, 50 fa/wm
and many more!
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Dang. Try not to sacrifice the new flavor of the factions. I always bemoaned the fact that most Outcasts and Trolls were totally boring. At least keep the minions' elemental attacks - that elevates them from mere gang members to superhuman menaces.
lol I stay away from the hollows
its like 10000 times harder than perez park, smaller spawns too XD
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Would you care to shed a light on this gem of wisdom you posess? ... *snip* .... The few who are like me, who organzie groups find it takes a great deal of time, and it requires continual re-recruiting as players log out/quit.
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If you're in a group that's dying lots... someone's not playing nice with the others. An organized group with a balance of archetypes can take just about anything within their level range and then some. It just requires teamwork. Simple as that.
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while there are other less high-and-mighty ways to say it, i don't think the mobs in the zone itself are bad - other than the fact that you have to run through it to get to missions. i ran through it as "tactically" as i could, and i got wasted a few times by some bosses that even prepared, i had no chance against.
but your general blanket statement of good-balanced groups not dying - i assume you've never done the outcast door missions. they're ludicrous.
while obviously you'll just say my groups sucked - had nothing to do with the 5 +2 bosses in the room casting lvl 32 powers - chain-knockbacking me to smithereens, and the one attack i get off misses in a hurricane.
i'm level 10
sorry, not once between 1 + 10 did a single discipline insp drop. my attacks are slotted for acc. a group of 8 (2 def, 2 cont, 2 blaster, 2 scrapper) was wiped completely twice, not even mentioning (many) other deaths. get a tanker? we had one earlier, he kept dying so he logged out and we replaced with second def. i'm talking about "defeat all villians in base" + the eel fellow etc. While you want to pinpoint it on stupidity, if you'd been there you'd have been dead too.
it was literally tougher than respec final wave - only we each had 4 powers + training enhancements.
tried it, no thank you. won't be doing those ever again. lvl 35 rikti missions are trivial compared to this. respec was trivial compared to this. i don't mind the added powers so much as the fact that when you stick them on a +2 boss, put 5 of them in the room, it's not even remotely worth trying. controllers cant hold anything, tankers cant take the damage from the agro if they taunt, blasters end up firing one shot and dying, and us melee folks are either stunned + held in mud or on our backs. not even joking, two of my deaths occured after not even getting to TRY to use a power.
I agree with both Godling and Rippar.
I like a challenge but the bosses and number of boss 'guards' are too tough for the level of mission. Just tonight I died four times trying to do the Eel mission. In this mission two of the 'roamer' groups had two healing shockers in it with hurricane going... in other words they would disorient me or knock me down and heal everyone I hurt.. including the other shocker. What happened twice? Well, I get stunned and they all unload on me killing me before I can even use one power. Tactics? Their aggro was all connected. I pulled one that wandered far from their group but on the first punch, they all came running at me. Apparently only a controller can separate them but I'm not going to waste my limited online play waiting for a controller to happen by who wants to help me.
From reading this and doing the missions, the Hollows are apparently for groups who already know how to play.. ie powergamer alts who meet together often enough to know each others styles because there's no way new players would know their powers that well. Clarification: I'm a newish player and I'm still trying to learn what the different powers do.
I disagree with making the Outcasts boring like Skulls or Hellions. Let them keep their elemental powers but, like mentioned, tone their damage down and/or tone down their chance to hit with Hurricane, thunderpunch, etc.... errr.. I'm mainly talking about the bosses and lt.'s. The rest are just fine.
It just seems more like luck to try to get through the misison. By luck I mean if you're lucky enough not to get stunned, disoriented, held, or knocked down. Once you're down, get ready to click the go to hospital button.
The problem is that they introduced the new super powered outcasts (whom I like a LOT) and trolls (whom I also like a LOT) at a lvl where heros dont have a chance at fighting them. Try fighting the new outcast bosses, or just LT's at lvl 6!
I'm fighting them at the middle teens and love the challenge. It also adds flavor to the groups background stories. Before, they were just hellions and skulls +1. That was boring.
IMO, Hollows should be changed to be the same lvl requirement as Boomtown.
Torden - Lvl 50 Electric blast / Electric manipulation / Electric mastery Blaster - Triumph
General Thrax - Lvl 50 Mercenaries / Poison / Mace mastery Mastermind - Freedom
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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I have to concur with those who say this is the wrong path -- the Skulls and Hellions should be made more like the Outcasts and Trolls.
As it stands, Skulls and Hellions below the Boss level are just punks with guns, so why actually do the police need our help with them? I can see why they'd have their hands full with Outcasts.
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Now I have my own feelings on the Hollows, for I did not have a very fun time there tonight. But in response to the guns aren't an issue for Super Heroes...Um...I know for a fact that some of the greatest super heroes of all time have had not much more to deal with then gun totting wackos. Sipderman is a great example...but What aboot Batman? They do entire story arcs where he is up against the mob..and last time I checked...they weren't creating hurricaines around their waists and healing their friends with powers. I'm all for the diversity...but common thugs are the path of ANY good super hero. You can't always be saving the galaxy, sometimes the old woman down the street need help too.
I like a challenge but the bosses and number of boss 'guards' are too tough for the level of mission. Just tonight I died four times trying to do the Eel mission.
I had about 90 minutes to kill before bed tonight so I logged in to Freedom, where I'm levelling up a copy of my main on Virtue (Kat/SR) 'coz some net.friends play there.
I had already hit level 5 so I ran into the Hollows and talked to Wincott. After my two Outcast ambush (wimpy), I stalked around a bit and found a level 5 group, but with a Boss. I popped two Lucks and a Discipline, went in and took down three Minions, about half the group, burning two Respites in the process, then retreated. Zoned, reloaded insps (tedious since Wincott wouldn't sell the good ones yet), came back and found a group of 11 level 5 Outcast Minions. Took them ALL out, solo.
Got the Troll mission. Massive Trollkin ambush shows up, at least six, might be mine and another player's. I took them on and got half my required kills...other players in the area jumped into the fight too so I'm not sure how many were actually there. Hunted around, found a group of eight level 5 Trollkin, spanked them.
That brought me to the two door missions, and I was still at level 5, four blocks to 6. I decided "what the heck" and went for it. Eel is .75 miles away, of course, so I had to trudge over, carefully weaving around groups of level 10 mobs, but I made it. Spawns were a mix of whites and yellows. I was forced to spend some inspirations dealing with a bad fight on the second level, but decided to go after the Eel anyway rather than run back to restock. The Eel spawned +1 and beat me. For the rematch I came back with better inspirations, but lost again because of the Hurricane -- if he'd been the Lightning Field variant I'd have won easily.
I realised this was a non-starter so I abandoned the mission for my first King's Row mission (Security Chief). This got me level 6 (and Hover). I then went back and took out the now +0 Electric Eel with no real problem. By this time it had gotten late, so I ran back to the entrance. Bedrock can wait until tomorrow.
So how is this too difficult, again? The only thing I would complain about here is Hurricane, which is a royal pain for melee ATs at every level. If Outcast are going to get it, better that the LTs have it and not the Bosses -- the LTs are easier to kill. Level 5 can solo in a Hazard Zone and people complain the game is too hard? Please.
Current Blog Post: "Why I am an Atheist..."
"And I say now these kittens, they do not get trained/As we did in the days when Victoria reigned!" -- T. S. Eliot, "Gus, the Theatre Cat"
You know, four hours ago I would have agreed with the Original Poster, but then I leveled and a half in that time, with a completely random, pick-me-up group whose members changed perhaps seven times over the period. I led it through the last half of it, and only one person died, when he got too close to a group of Trolls on the way back to the gate.
The trick is this - STAY CLOSE TO THE GATE. Just go south, dart around the groups that are too low for you, and scavenge around the ruined buildings. Don't mess with the fields, the guys there will KILL you. Don't mess with the big hole in the ground, THEY'LL kill you too! Get together a good group (with a good tanker, controller or defender, if not more than one), along with the requisite scrappers and blasters, and you'll be fine as long as you don't get greedy. If someone has a mission halfway across the map, on the other side of a thousand purple Trolls and CoTs, guess what? Tough. That guy's gonna have to come back when he's level 15. Missions kill you dead in The Hollows. Stick to the streets until you're high enough level that you're not constantly dodging reds and purples on your way back to sell, because sooner or later, you'll misjudge somebody's aggro range, and will catch a sudden case of lightning, ice, and seven boulders in the pancreas.
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Please dont.
Thank you
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So how is this too difficult, again?
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It wasn't too difficult anymore because you out-levelled your mission. That's what I'm doing now with all my characters, out-levelling missions. But when you're over 10, that's tedious and takes forever. It's fine below 10.
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"this challenge is not hard enough, make it harder" is not whining . . . it is the anithesis of whining.
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Well, this is a game where you're telling several people that their fun really is less important than your fun. It's not the Shao Lin Temple, nor is it Navy Seal training.
I agree with Kazarek, though. There's definitely a lot of whining to keep the game hard. I'm not sure how anyone could call what most of the complaints have been anything else.
Also, there's been mockery, derision, and condescension from those who want the game to remain harder, with comments about how people need to learn to play the game properly, and how they should go team with a controller, and other pointless replies. And, honestly, you've participated ("amused by shiny objects crowd" comes to mind) in all of it - and I'm somewhat sympathetic to what you're looking for, I just think you're looking for it in the wrong part of the game.
Fundamentally, when I'm playing low level characters, I want to get them to Talos/IP. The current setup puts obstacles in that path. I want the game once I get to Talos/IP to be more challenging. I don't want the part of the game that I've played through at least a dozen times to be hard enough that it takes me that much longer to get through it. I also don't like the idea of new players going into door missions at second level and getting pounded by two patrols of two yellow minions and an orange lt. each because they don't yet know their character or the game well enough to handle that fight...especially if playing a controller, blaster, or defender.
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why not keep the powers but tone them down... or better yet... actually have them run out of endurance like we do. it's frustrating to not be able to do anything because we are constantly stunned or held.
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They are tunning them down. Let me emphasize for those who haven't read, or haven't interepeted his post: He did not say they were REPLACING the powers with guns. He said they were "Tuning them down".
Here is his post verbatim:
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We'll also be tuning down Trolls and Outcasts even more - to make them like Skulls and Hellions (fewer powers, etc.).
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Fewer powers