Sebastius_Black

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Why was it decided to make it a defender primary/controller secondary in the first place?

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To fit into the conventional braindead pattern, of course. It would make far more sense as a blaster secondary, but that would mean that there would be TWO non-blapper blaster secondaries, that that could NOT be permitted.

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Defenders already had the greatest choice in powersets of all AT's and the other 7 (6 for 'troller secondaries) actually defend your team in some way.

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Had you noticed that statesman is very much prejudiced in favor of defenders? Which archetype gets the least nerfing? Defenders. They have some kind of protected status--daddy's little darling doesn't get held to the same standards everyone else must meet.

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I think you are mistaken, Statesman appears to be swinging the nerf bat with equal fervor. If you think he wiffed on a particular build, please rest assured he will continue to swing until it stops twiching.

-Sebastius

I could have a veteran badge too if you would only have allowed 20 character slots. But noooooooooo.

*wink*

Well, it says in the news that we know they have some heavy ordinance...maybe we'll get to see that ordinance and Tanks will be roaming around town

And by Tank I mean the honest to goodness article. I've always wanted to bust up vehicles in CoH, but you can't due to the city being in shambles after a few short hours. So why not have bad guys in vehicles..then you finally get to bust some bolts!!!!!!

Huzzah!!!

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. . . wow, just . . wow.

I think the horse is dead, been beaten, spat upon and suffered other indignities not worth repeating on a moderated forum.

Unless Lord Recluse or Statesman come in here with a post about how "Oops, guess you'll be paying $30 to play both.", we can stand fairly secure in what others have stated repeatedly.

Stated again for clarity: $15 a month will let you play CoH AND CoV if you have them both. If you have just one, the fee doesn't change. Three options, one fee, everyone clear now?

Personally, I may just stick with CoH, as the idea of playing a villain doesn't appeal to me that much, and I already dedicate enough time to one game; trying to keep up on both would lead to either one getting left by the curb, or having two groups of characters with scant amounts of time spent on each.

Perhaps one day, but I remain unsure at the moment. I do know that I look forward to seeing the new content, and facing other teams of players in whatever PVP is implemented.

Let's just avoid running about with cries of 'the sky is falling' before the first inkling of trouble even arises.

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And you felt the horse deserved one more good smack eh?

Well, for my part, I would much rather ask about these things and understand.

The sky may not be falling, but that doesn't mean I want to stand underneath a flock of seagulls either.

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so, just so I understand the scenario. If I buy City of Villains and City of Heroes, then I can choose to log in as one faction or the other on the same server. (Exactly like the way DAOC does it?)

And if I am new to the game then I can choose either faction to buy and play the game with that, on the same servers as everyone else, i just don't have the option to switch and play the hero side?

Is this correct for those of us that are confused by one, the other or both?

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Here is the way I understand it.

If you buy only CoH, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoH.

If you buy only CoV, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoV.

If you buy both, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play either CoH or CoV, choosing which one to play each time you log on. I imagine the choice will be made by deciding to play either CoH or CoV (which Icon you click to start the program from Windows).

There will be, as I understand it, some features common to the game. PvP interactions IIRC.

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That unruffles my feathers. I don't mind paying a one time fee for the expansion itself. It just didn't sound like that to me when I hopped on the thread.

Groovie.

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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.

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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.

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Fine, that doesn't change the point though.

Edit: Acutally, since we're correcting each other
Mythic actually said that they had a separate deveolpment team they created for the expansions to their game and that the content developers working on DAoC were not in fact the same employees that were working on the expansion. So there! *Insert Raspberry here*

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Suppose they end up creating two game worlds that only 'touch' where PvP is enabled.

In that case I think it could be really interesting, and paying separately would not be anathema.

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I agree, that would be an interesting spin. I wouldnt be totally abhorrent towards that idea after I sat and thought outside the box for a second. Would I play COV? maybe. would I play them both at the same time? no.

but it would add more than just "factions" you could get some serious hate going on.

One thing I hope for, you cant create villans on the same server you ahve heroes on.

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Yeah, I gotta agree that this mentioned idea I do not find as unpleasant. It smacks more of them trying to create something new and better in terms of game concept than it does sticking it to the customer. There is still something that bothers me about it, but I'm not sure what

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CoH without CoV: $50 box fee, 1 free month playtime, $14.95/month. Player can only play a hero in Paragon City.

CoV without CoH: $50 box fee, 1 free month. $14.95/month. Player can only choose a villian in Paragon City.

CoH + CoV: Player with CoH buys $50 box of CoV, and gets 1 free month of game time credited to their existing account. Price remains $14.95/month and player has choice between heroes or villians.

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Thats how its gonne go, for the 5th time in the ONE thread. The possibility is out there that you can pay for eacyh game seperate. Well then, fine. be a moron and pay 30 bucks a month instead of tieing CoV to your current account and (continue) paying $15. Its not that hard of a consept to grasp.

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Actually, it was a hard concept to grasp. The, or Both, confused me. I could not comprehend a scenario where it would be advantageous to pay twice the monthly fee for the same product, therefor I surmised that the statement must not mean that and in fact meant something else.

so, just so I understand the scenario. If I buy City of Villains and City of Heroes, then I can choose to log in as one faction or the other on the same server. (Exactly like the way DAOC does it?)

And if I am new to the game then I can choose either faction to buy and play the game with that, on the same servers as everyone else, i just don't have the option to switch and play the hero side?

Is this correct for those of us that are confused by one, the other or both?

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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.

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That's the way it should be..Kind of. I'm guessing they've painted themselves into a corner with this new content and people who don't buy the CoV probably won't work with the people who do. That is to say it's probably an "all or nothing" kind of thing.

If that's the case then they need to find a way to put whatever hooks in that they have to in the normal game to enable it to co-exist with Cov. If they have to add a lot of free content to CoH to do this, like engine upgrade, whatever..then so be it, it's just not practicle to market this as an expansion yet require wholly separate servers, etc.

Otherwise it's just a big mess and like another poster said, it will end up splintering the player base.

If it can co-exist and the hooks are all in there and they just want more money. that's a different issue!

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Although, there is also the fact that there will have to be a CoH update/new content team, and a separate CoV update/new content team. That, plus server maintainance, is where the monthly fees go.

Granted, if they share servers, it doesn't factor into the cost so much.

I could see a separate monthly fee for both, say $15 for one (CoV or CoH), or $22-25 for both. The cost of the CoV box alone won't cover development and continuous updates, and I don't imagine they'll stop updating CoH with Issue 3 or 4...

I personally will plan for 2 fees. If it's only one at the current price, I'll be pleasantly surprised.

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You are more forgiving and tolerant than I. It really depends for me on what the acutal truth is behind this.

If they are going to be using the same servers and if the current development of CoV is slowing down the content or expansion of CoH, then it should be an expansion that you buy and not a separate service plan for it.

If there is a separate service plan for it, then that means I, as a paying customer of the game CoH am now inflicted with more lag and less development time for my money. Basically i'm getting less for what i'm paying.

I mean really, What MMORPG comes out with a Version 2 of their product when the original hasn't even been out but half a year? And if this is not an expansion, then it is indeed a Version 2 that is CoH + CoV since CoV is supposed to have Player Heroes to fight against.

Bah, lets just say I don't like it. The sale of CoV should cover its development costs, if it doesn't then the current subscription will cover it eventually and then it will be operating expenses and profit. This model has worked for all the other MMORPG's that have come out, I don't see why it wouldn't be working for CoH.

If this happens, then it tells me that I can expect more of this in the future. They did it once, they will do it again. You get content update for your fee, but all expansions that add to the overall game engine or world will cost you an extra fee?

Think what it would be like if UO or DAOC or heaven help them EQ had done this? EQ has something like 9 expansions now.

I just don't understand why CoV would cause a separate fee unless it was basically CoH version 2 and replaces the old CoH. If that's the case and my choice is to play CoH or play CoV and have all the content of CoH + the new expansion CoV then that means CoH is a dead end and you'll basically have to switch games every time they come out with an "expansion"

Interesting response to the question...it covers all possibilities :/

Acutally, I'm a tad upset that the idea of having to pay two 15$ account fees to play CoH with the CoV expansion is even being entertained.

CoV is an obvious expansion to CoH. Why? Because, http://www.cityofvillains.com say so. They call it the first expansion of CoH, they say that Player Heroes will be fighting against the Villains.

Granted they do not say specifically that the Player Heroes are the ones from CoH, but it is dang well implied since at this point the only Heroes we know of are our own in CoH.

So if this isn't an expansion, and it is going to be a separate game with a separate fee, that needs to be stated.

Uh, this sounds way off base to me. I just can't believe they would make an expansion like CoV and have it independant of CoH. I thought CoV was supposed to bring PvP or something?

Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.

I just can't see that they'd do this, this is one of the better dev teams I've seen when it comes to taking care of the players. This would just be completely out of wack for them.

Any devs want to comment on how CoV is going to be please? Now that it's brought up, I really want to know. this impacts me.

thanks.

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Again we are subjected to facts by assertion. Political philosophy permeates our social interactions, of which this forum is one. That you do not recognize such does not change it. You state politics have no place here and I state they cannot help but have a place here.


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riigggghhhtt....I know when I think about the word game, neo-whatsits jump right up to the front of my mind.

And now for something completely different...

Has anyone else tried a Broadsword/Regen build in the eel mission? Solo?

All these folk that love the new 'difficulty', I'd just like to say there is a ton of difference between say a Dark Melee scrapper, Dark armor, etc. Other builds that have acutal resistances, protections and debuffs at that level are a lot different than the slower to develop characters.

As a BS/Regen, I got zippo. No status protects and no +resistances and no +defense. It's just me and a very Red very Pissed off Electric Eel and there simply isn't any other possible outcome but the BS/Regen losing.

I've been hesitant to say the word 'Impossible' just because I was afraid I may be mistaken and just doing something completely wrong. But after 15 failed attempts, I'm positive the BS/Regen scrapper, soloing the eel mission is just not a possibility when eel is red, and it's probably not going to happen when he's orange either.

Popping 2 luck, 2 accuracy, 2 damage and a status resist inspiration was the best I did against him, and I still failed to get him below half. Hurricane + Red con mob is just dang hard to overcome along with the hugely punishing melee move he does, that move literally takes half my life if it lands.

That kind of difficulty, I don't want. So, to all the difficulty hounds out there, have a go at the BS/Regen if you like difficult. You'll be in hog heaven taking on all those Bricks/Shockers and a Red con Eel. Maybe that will give you a clear picture of the kind of difficulty some builds face with these changes.

I've played some other builds against eel and not had nearly as much of a problem. But there are several builds that it's just way too hard for, even for those of us who like challenges.

What's my point? *shrug* just wanted to talk about politics I guess.

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Which is fine when you're below level 10. Over that, it becomes a problem.

You know, your argument goes both ways. If people want to do their missions (like I do), they should not be forced to out-level them to make them doable.

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It works at all levels pretty much. The lazy players should be forced to out-level their missions so they can have them easy. That way the people that want a challenge (until the difficulty sliders are coded) can have fun as well doing their missions.

*sighs* Lazy whiners are going to ruin this game as surely as they ruined every other game out there.

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I don't know if you are just trying to get peoples goat or if you are really this mis-informed.

I know with my level 10 Broadsword/Regen scrapper, It's pretty much impossible for me to solo the electric eel mission. He's red con to me and pretty much takes half my life in the first round. I've tried variations of inspiration combos to try and take him down, but I just can't do it. Running away and doing hit and runs has not worked so well either. At least 4 out of the 6 times i've tried that, Eel has disappered inside a flight of steps so that I can't hit him. Even if I could, He just does too much damage too quickly for my scrapper to compensate with.

I'm pretty sure you have no insights into this problem, you're just being argumentative because you like to.

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With the +1 changes coming hopefully this arguement can go away. I just gotta wait for difficulty sliders to be implemented when my missions go back to being boring again

Thx for the fix devs and listening to the crowd even though I dont want the missions to be easy again I can wait.

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I gotta agree with that, I really want those sliders and am very happy the devs are putting them in. I like to solo when my friends aren't around or when I want a slower pace and I'm finding my debuffers can solo these tougher settings a lot better than my scrapper/tanker/controllers. So i'd love to be able to adjust the difficulty for my other guys.

It's not so bad getting pounded in the trenches when you have faith that there really is a light at the end.

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Whether you are for the increased levels, or against it, changing it so that soloing isn't viable should not be done. Right now you can still solo missions if you want, but for a lot of classes you are going to have to blow your influence on inspirations and do a lot of running away. Something my tanker finds slightly offensive, but really has no other choice.

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See, all I'm saying is that it is not because it is too hard that the feel and diversity of a group like the Outcasts should be sacrificed. You wan't to tone them down ... fine but don't bring them back to the 1 shocker, 3 thugs (with nothing special) look. These fire/ice/earth/lightning minions are really nice.

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I don't have a problem with the increasing of difficulty of the mobs. I didn't much care for the pre-issue 2 version of the outcasts either. But there does need to be a balance.

I don't think Statesman said he was going to remove all their powers and put them back to before pre-issue 2, they will just be removing *some* of their powers.

If they just balance it a bit for the missions and then reduce the end boss mob so I don't see any more Red con bosses. I think that will be plenty.

right now, there isn't a whole lot that a lot of archtypes can do against a red con fire boss in a mission. Some will do better than others, but everyone should be able to complete it with varying degrees of difficulty and inspiration use.

Personally I do want to see the extra powers, but I also want to be able to, on average, complete my missions without taking hours to do what should be a 30 minute mission. If you want to make some missions tougher than others so that you have to be extreamly careful, fine, no problem. Just as long as they are the exception and not the average. If it becomes the average, then I'm not peter parker..I'm mary jane, and I just don't have the hair for that.

I think alot of people are just missing the point in some of this. This game is about all styles of play, grouping, solo, task forces...there is a lot of variety in the way people want to play and this game has been great about supporting that variety.

Some people run around with a hand picked group and kick all kinds of [censored] regardless of the foes they face. I for one run in such a group (Nuclear Reactions on Guardian .
Changing the difficulty of the mobs has meant really very little for us, our tactics haven't changed the mobs just do some really cool effects now and sometimes annoying (caltrops) things. However, when I duo with a friend or play with just three in the group the increase in mission difficulty has made a very large and noticable difference.

The biggest change is that not having a balanced group is a larger impact. Me and my friends can play any old character we want to and group together, but the concequence of that could be long pauses inbetween fights as we wait for hitpoints to come back. That kind of thing just isn't very fun and I would prefer not to sacrifice the fun of grouping whatever characters we each like to play so we can balance it out. This is on just normal missions, not task forces, street hunting or danger zones. Just your normal missions. (Whenever that slider goes live though, that will fix all these problems)

Doing Task forces or doing Danger Zone missions is a bit different. I don't mind having to balance for those zones or suffering the downtime associated with NOT balancing out the group. But regular missions should be doable by small groups of any type of hero combination in my opinion.

And lastly, soloing. I don't know if it's because of the +1 issue or not, but soloing has taken a major downturn in missions for me. My little level 6 Fire/Energy tanker that I just made simply can not solo the end scorcher bosses without running to a vendor and loading up on heal/luck inspirations.

Whether you are for the increased levels, or against it, changing it so that soloing isn't viable should not be done. Right now you can still solo missions if you want, but for a lot of classes you are going to have to blow your influence on inspirations and do a lot of running away. Something my tanker finds slightly offensive, but really has no other choice. It's going to stink if I have to six slot Rest with recharge reductions so I can solo with an acceptable amount of downtime