City of Villians payment question
By
Ancient_Dragon,
Posted on: 2004-10-08 12:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Well, I checked with our marketing guy, and to our knowledge your 60 day cards should be vaild for any NCSoft title, not just CoH.
Uhh, is it just me, or is anyone else worried about having to crank out 30 bucks a month to keep playing? I really thought that CoV would be an Add-on that we would have to buy off the shelf for $30 or something, but that the subscription would remain the same, since it isn't likely that we are playing both games simultaneously... I don't recall EverCrack doing multiple charges for each addon that came out... :/
If CoH and CoV players are in the same game world, it's the same game. I don't care if it's different clients and software, if you can use one half without the other. One game world == one game == one charge. If you try to charge for the two separately, you will simply end up with unhappy players choosing one or the other when you could have happy players that play whichever one they feel like at the time. I'm rich, I spend 10x as much on coffee as I do on CoH, and I still wouldn't pay for a subscription to both CoH and CoV... there's a principle involved.
Statesman has said elsewhere he wants to see people be able to play CoH or CoV as they choose for the same monthly charge. You better hope he gets his way, or you'll incur a lot of angry players and minimal financial gain.
Greed will be the downfall. If CoV is a completely seperate stand alone with its own seperate $15 monthly fee. Both games will suffer. Crytpic will simply cannablize their own user base and steal subscribers from CoH.
The whole point of expansions is to appease your current user base and attract new players, not steal your own user base. Making a stand alone game with a seperate fee basically means they're starting w/ a user base of zero for City of Villains.
I'm sure they will have a combined fee for playing both like $20 but that's simply too expensive. Cryptic beware of the marketing deparment! 
Except CoV isn't an add-on. It's an independant game. CoH is not required to play CoV. CoH and CoV will supposedly share servers but it will be (I expect) possible to play either all the way to 50 and never encounter a player-run character from the opposing side. All PvP content will be optional. Price-wise, I don't know if a seperate subscription is required or if both will be playable for the same $15 a month.
It is known that there are an infinite number of worlds, simply because there is an infinite amount of space for them to be in. However, not every one of them is inhabited. Therefore, there must be a finite number of inhabited worlds. Any finite number divided by infinity is as near to nothing as makes no odds, so the average population of all the planets in the Universe can be said to be zero. From this it follows that the population of the whole Universe is also zero, and that any people you may meet from time to time are merely the products of a deranged imagination.
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Except CoV isn't an add-on. It's an independant game. CoH is not required to play CoV. CoH and CoV will supposedly share servers but it will be (I expect) possible to play either all the way to 50 and never encounter a player-run character from the opposing side. All PvP content will be optional. Price-wise, I don't know if a seperate subscription is required or if both will be playable for the same $15 a month.
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
Virtue Server
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Uh, this sounds way off base to me. I just can't believe they would make an expansion like CoV and have it independant of CoH. I thought CoV was supposed to bring PvP or something?
Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.
I just can't see that they'd do this, this is one of the better dev teams I've seen when it comes to taking care of the players. This would just be completely out of wack for them.
Any devs want to comment on how CoV is going to be please? Now that it's brought up, I really want to know. this impacts me.
thanks.
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
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Yep, I've read that somewhere, too.
One fee will be valid for CoV, CoH or Both.
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Well, I checked with our marketing guy, and to our knowledge your 60 day cards should be vaild for any NCSoft title, not just CoH.
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Thank you you have put my mind at ease.
Interesting response to the question...it covers all possibilities :/
Acutally, I'm a tad upset that the idea of having to pay two 15$ account fees to play CoH with the CoV expansion is even being entertained.
CoV is an obvious expansion to CoH. Why? Because, http://www.cityofvillains.com say so. They call it the first expansion of CoH, they say that Player Heroes will be fighting against the Villains.
Granted they do not say specifically that the Player Heroes are the ones from CoH, but it is dang well implied since at this point the only Heroes we know of are our own in CoH.
So if this isn't an expansion, and it is going to be a separate game with a separate fee, that needs to be stated.
Although, there is also the fact that there will have to be a CoH update/new content team, and a separate CoV update/new content team. That, plus server maintainance, is where the monthly fees go.
Granted, if they share servers, it doesn't factor into the cost so much.
I could see a separate monthly fee for both, say $15 for one (CoV or CoH), or $22-25 for both. The cost of the CoV box alone won't cover development and continuous updates, and I don't imagine they'll stop updating CoH with Issue 3 or 4...
I personally will plan for 2 fees. If it's only one at the current price, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
Every expansion for every other mmo has never raised the monthly fee or charged a monthly fee. If it's an expansion (which I think it is) it shouldn't.
As much as I'm looking forward to CoV, if there is a separate monthly fee, or a combined one for both CoH and CoV, then I will say it right now, I will not be playing CoV.
The updates that are coming with CoV, such as the SG bases and pvp, would likely have to added onto CoH as a free update as it is, unless they want to splinter the player base, which is generally not a good idea. Someone also mentioned there would have to be separate content updates for the two different sides. I disagree with this, as much of the content would likely be shared between the two.
The only thing I could see with NC/Cryptic charging more for would be the boxed copy of CoV. Since it can apparently function on its own without CoH, I could see that being marked at $50 instead of the typical $30 an expansion runs. And if it does go this way, perhaps there could be a rebate for pre-existing CoH owners. 
Just letting my thoughts out on this, and hoping the $15 a month fee will stay as is with no extra one for CoV.
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Although, there is also the fact that there will have to be a CoH update/new content team, and a separate CoV update/new content team. That, plus server maintainance, is where the monthly fees go.
Granted, if they share servers, it doesn't factor into the cost so much.
I could see a separate monthly fee for both, say $15 for one (CoV or CoH), or $22-25 for both. The cost of the CoV box alone won't cover development and continuous updates, and I don't imagine they'll stop updating CoH with Issue 3 or 4...
I personally will plan for 2 fees. If it's only one at the current price, I'll be pleasantly surprised.
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You are more forgiving and tolerant than I. It really depends for me on what the acutal truth is behind this.
If they are going to be using the same servers and if the current development of CoV is slowing down the content or expansion of CoH, then it should be an expansion that you buy and not a separate service plan for it.
If there is a separate service plan for it, then that means I, as a paying customer of the game CoH am now inflicted with more lag and less development time for my money. Basically i'm getting less for what i'm paying.
I mean really, What MMORPG comes out with a Version 2 of their product when the original hasn't even been out but half a year? And if this is not an expansion, then it is indeed a Version 2 that is CoH + CoV since CoV is supposed to have Player Heroes to fight against.
Bah, lets just say I don't like it. The sale of CoV should cover its development costs, if it doesn't then the current subscription will cover it eventually and then it will be operating expenses and profit. This model has worked for all the other MMORPG's that have come out, I don't see why it wouldn't be working for CoH.
If this happens, then it tells me that I can expect more of this in the future. They did it once, they will do it again. You get content update for your fee, but all expansions that add to the overall game engine or world will cost you an extra fee?
Think what it would be like if UO or DAOC or heaven help them EQ had done this? EQ has something like 9 expansions now.
I just don't understand why CoV would cause a separate fee unless it was basically CoH version 2 and replaces the old CoH. If that's the case and my choice is to play CoH or play CoV and have all the content of CoH + the new expansion CoV then that means CoH is a dead end and you'll basically have to switch games every time they come out with an "expansion"
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
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Yep, I've read that somewhere, too.
One fee will be valid for CoV, CoH or Both.
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You mean it's not the end of the world?!?!? Reading the first few posts, you'd think Cryptic announced that a) it WAS going to double costs and 2) they went to your house and kicked your dog while you were at work.
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
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Yep, I've read that somewhere, too.
One fee will be valid for CoV, CoH or Both.
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My understanding is that if you want to play CoV, you will have to pay for the expansion. It will be priced at whatever it will be priced at. i suspect that it will be close to that of CoH when it first came out.
You will be able to play CoH or CoV or both, for 1 monthly subscription fee.
I agree that CoV is not a typical expansion, in that the additional planned content is very far above and beyond any MMO expansion I've ever seen. I also agree that they might choose to handle it differently. I would suggest running the two games parallel, in the same world, and working the financials like this:
CoH without CoV: $50 box fee, 1 free month playtime, $14.95/month. Player can only play a hero in Paragon City.
CoV without CoH: $50 box fee, 1 free month. $14.95/month. Player can only choose a villian in Paragon City.
CoH + CoV: Player with CoH buys $50 box of CoV, and gets 1 free month of game time credited to their existing account. Price remains $14.95/month and player has choice between heroes or villians.
This means that a new player can look on the shelves at EB and see CoH and CoV, side-by-side for the same price. It's the same game, in the same universe, but you're basically choosing sides from the beginning. Perhaps NC can bundle both in a "Paragon Pack" for $75 or so, and offer 2 free months. Also with this model, existing players will grumble about paying for an "expensive" expansion, but can be quieted by offering the free month.
Just seems like a good solution for all parties...
/devilsadvocate 1
Suppose they end up creating two game worlds that only 'touch' where PvP is enabled.
In that case I think it could be really interesting, and paying separately would not be anathema.
For one thing, it would really foster and intensify the rise of two distinct communities: Heroes and Villains. In too many PvP situations, the conflict just comes down to the same people on different toons. Playing a particular faction is a trivial decision and has no consequences. Having two nearly independent games running in the same multiverse, each accomodating an opposing faction is exciting.
The expectation of course, then, is that CoV would need to have at least as much content for PvE villains, arcs, etc. as CoH. Otherwise it's a hose.
It would also require that CoH features not be rolled into CoV and vice versa, but as long as you didn't need to own both in order to participate in PvP or gain full access to your faction's feature set, I wouldn't see a problem.
I'm not saying I think they'll do any of this; the point is just that I can imagine circumstances in which separate subscription fees could be appropriate or at least acceptable.
DG
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CoH without CoV: $50 box fee, 1 free month playtime, $14.95/month. Player can only play a hero in Paragon City.
CoV without CoH: $50 box fee, 1 free month. $14.95/month. Player can only choose a villian in Paragon City.
CoH + CoV: Player with CoH buys $50 box of CoV, and gets 1 free month of game time credited to their existing account. Price remains $14.95/month and player has choice between heroes or villians.
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Thats how its gonne go, for the 5th time in the ONE thread. The possibility is out there that you can pay for eacyh game seperate. Well then, fine. be a moron and pay 30 bucks a month instead of tieing CoV to your current account and (continue) paying $15. Its not that hard of a consept to grasp.
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
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Yep, I've read that somewhere, too.
One fee will be valid for CoV, CoH or Both.
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You mean it's not the end of the world?!?!? Reading the first few posts, you'd think Cryptic announced that a) it WAS going to double costs and 2) they went to your house and kicked your dog while you were at work.
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I had to pay extra for the dog kicking service since it was my roommate's dog instead of mine.
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Last statement from States on the issue was that the current plan was for the $15/month would cover one, the other, or both.
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That's the way it should be..Kind of. I'm guessing they've painted themselves into a corner with this new content and people who don't buy the CoV probably won't work with the people who do. That is to say it's probably an "all or nothing" kind of thing.
If that's the case then they need to find a way to put whatever hooks in that they have to in the normal game to enable it to co-exist with Cov. If they have to add a lot of free content to CoH to do this, like engine upgrade, whatever..then so be it, it's just not practicle to market this as an expansion yet require wholly separate servers, etc.
Otherwise it's just a big mess and like another poster said, it will end up splintering the player base.
If it can co-exist and the hooks are all in there and they just want more money. that's a different issue!
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CoH without CoV: $50 box fee, 1 free month playtime, $14.95/month. Player can only play a hero in Paragon City.
CoV without CoH: $50 box fee, 1 free month. $14.95/month. Player can only choose a villian in Paragon City.
CoH + CoV: Player with CoH buys $50 box of CoV, and gets 1 free month of game time credited to their existing account. Price remains $14.95/month and player has choice between heroes or villians.
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Thats how its gonne go, for the 5th time in the ONE thread. The possibility is out there that you can pay for eacyh game seperate. Well then, fine. be a moron and pay 30 bucks a month instead of tieing CoV to your current account and (continue) paying $15. Its not that hard of a consept to grasp.
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Actually, it was a hard concept to grasp. The, or Both, confused me. I could not comprehend a scenario where it would be advantageous to pay twice the monthly fee for the same product, therefor I surmised that the statement must not mean that and in fact meant something else.
so, just so I understand the scenario. If I buy City of Villains and City of Heroes, then I can choose to log in as one faction or the other on the same server. (Exactly like the way DAOC does it?)
And if I am new to the game then I can choose either faction to buy and play the game with that, on the same servers as everyone else, i just don't have the option to switch and play the hero side?
Is this correct for those of us that are confused by one, the other or both?
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Suppose they end up creating two game worlds that only 'touch' where PvP is enabled.
In that case I think it could be really interesting, and paying separately would not be anathema.
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I agree, that would be an interesting spin. I wouldnt be totally abhorrent towards that idea after I sat and thought outside the box for a second. Would I play COV? maybe. would I play them both at the same time? no.
but it would add more than just "factions" you could get some serious hate going on.
One thing I hope for, you cant create villans on the same server you ahve heroes on.
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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.
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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.
(This Question is pending that City of villains and City of Heroes are charged differently and not as one game in a account)
Ok here is my question. I bought 13 of the City of heroes 60 day Game cards (before COH came out) Now Im wondering Will I be able to use those to pay for City of villains time or will City of heroes time count towards City of villains. I have heard that the City of villains is a whole separate game not just an ad on to City of heroes this is why I am asking. Any Information if it can be given would help greatly in fanatical planning.