City of Villians payment question
By
Ancient_Dragon,
Posted on: 2004-10-08 12:06 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.
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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.
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Fine, that doesn't change the point though.
Edit: Acutally, since we're correcting each other 
Mythic actually said that they had a separate deveolpment team they created for the expansions to their game and that the content developers working on DAoC were not in fact the same employees that were working on the expansion. So there! *Insert Raspberry here*
Personally I have no problem shelling out the extra cash to buy the expansion itself. I can eat ramen for a few weeks :P.
But if they are going to start charging a seperate fee as though it's TWO GAMES instead of an update as it clames to be I'll be very upset. Not that this would effect them much but I'd probably just quit all togeather rather than miss new content because they want $30 a month...or even $20 I couldn't do. I hope statesman or someone comes in and comments on this.
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so, just so I understand the scenario. If I buy City of Villains and City of Heroes, then I can choose to log in as one faction or the other on the same server. (Exactly like the way DAOC does it?)
And if I am new to the game then I can choose either faction to buy and play the game with that, on the same servers as everyone else, i just don't have the option to switch and play the hero side?
Is this correct for those of us that are confused by one, the other or both?
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Here is the way I understand it.
If you buy only CoH, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoH.
If you buy only CoV, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoV.
If you buy both, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play either CoH or CoV, choosing which one to play each time you log on. I imagine the choice will be made by deciding to play either CoH or CoV (which Icon you click to start the program from Windows).
There will be, as I understand it, some features common to the game. PvP interactions IIRC.
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so, just so I understand the scenario. If I buy City of Villains and City of Heroes, then I can choose to log in as one faction or the other on the same server. (Exactly like the way DAOC does it?)
And if I am new to the game then I can choose either faction to buy and play the game with that, on the same servers as everyone else, i just don't have the option to switch and play the hero side?
Is this correct for those of us that are confused by one, the other or both?
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Here is the way I understand it.
If you buy only CoH, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoH.
If you buy only CoV, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play with any of the Issues that have come out for CoV.
If you buy both, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play either CoH or CoV, choosing which one to play each time you log on. I imagine the choice will be made by deciding to play either CoH or CoV (which Icon you click to start the program from Windows).
There will be, as I understand it, some features common to the game. PvP interactions IIRC.
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That unruffles my feathers. I don't mind paying a one time fee for the expansion itself. It just didn't sound like that to me when I hopped on the thread.
Groovie.
. . . wow, just . . wow.
I think the horse is dead, been beaten, spat upon and suffered other indignities not worth repeating on a moderated forum.
Unless Lord Recluse or Statesman come in here with a post about how "Oops, guess you'll be paying $30 to play both.", we can stand fairly secure in what others have stated repeatedly.
Stated again for clarity: $15 a month will let you play CoH AND CoV if you have them both. If you have just one, the fee doesn't change. Three options, one fee, everyone clear now?
Personally, I may just stick with CoH, as the idea of playing a villain doesn't appeal to me that much, and I already dedicate enough time to one game; trying to keep up on both would lead to either one getting left by the curb, or having two groups of characters with scant amounts of time spent on each.
Perhaps one day, but I remain unsure at the moment. I do know that I look forward to seeing the new content, and facing other teams of players in whatever PVP is implemented.
Let's just avoid running about with cries of 'the sky is falling' before the first inkling of trouble even arises.
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. . . wow, just . . wow.
I think the horse is dead, been beaten, spat upon and suffered other indignities not worth repeating on a moderated forum.
Unless Lord Recluse or Statesman come in here with a post about how "Oops, guess you'll be paying $30 to play both.", we can stand fairly secure in what others have stated repeatedly.
Stated again for clarity: $15 a month will let you play CoH AND CoV if you have them both. If you have just one, the fee doesn't change. Three options, one fee, everyone clear now?
Personally, I may just stick with CoH, as the idea of playing a villain doesn't appeal to me that much, and I already dedicate enough time to one game; trying to keep up on both would lead to either one getting left by the curb, or having two groups of characters with scant amounts of time spent on each.
Perhaps one day, but I remain unsure at the moment. I do know that I look forward to seeing the new content, and facing other teams of players in whatever PVP is implemented.
Let's just avoid running about with cries of 'the sky is falling' before the first inkling of trouble even arises.
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And you felt the horse deserved one more good smack eh?
Well, for my part, I would much rather ask about these things and understand.
The sky may not be falling, but that doesn't mean I want to stand underneath a flock of seagulls either.
Just chiming in with my vote - it's too early to say how they'll market this, obviously. But I'd guess that message board sentiment is one way (certainly not the ONLY way) that the powers that be will decide how to charge for City of Villains - or even if they should charge at all.
Therefore, my two cents:
- The software itself can be priced as high as $49.99 and I will buy it. Expansion pack or no.
- If there is a separate monthly fee to play - I won't. I enjoy City of Heores, but I won't pay to play two mmorpg's at once, no matter how good they are. I always end up feeling I'm wasting my money somehow - that I'm not "fully" enjoying or playing one of them. Keep in mind $15/month = $180 a year.
- If there is one combined, discounted fee offered for the games, even if it is SLIGHTLY higher (say $5 more a month to add City of Villains to my account) I will do so. I don't feel that's a contradiction. My thought processes turn into "So for only $5 more a month I can play both games? Cool!" And $5 * 12 = $60 which is a reasonable upgrade price in my mind. Anything more than $5 a month, though, and I won't bite.
In a nutshell, if I was doing the marketing, I'd set it up as follows: People who never played City of Heroes could buy City of Villains for $49.99, and subscribe for $14.99 a month, as a stand alone product. People who currently owned City of heroes could buy it for the same price (although a discount for existing players would be nice, say $34.99?) and have the option of adding the subscription to COV to their existing account for $5/month more, or switching over their account to COV entirely at no cost.
It would of course be nice if it was free- but in the real world it costs money to make and host these games. I'm more than willing to pay a reasonable amount for a good quality game or expansion.
</ducks and hides from flames>
Statesman and Lord Recluse, I love this game and am a strong advocate for it. BUT...
If you do charge 2 subscription fees, I and several other of your existing customers will be VERY upset.
Not going to make any lame threats about quitting, but I will think about it strongly. ANd I will tell you this for certain.
I will NOT buy CoV if there is a separate fee.
So if you want to get that all important revenue, you better think long and hard before and make sure your marketing understands that pissed off customers = lost $$$.
Please read this in full, its Statesman's Radio interview. It's long but will answer most of your questions.
http://mmoradio.gameamp.com/news/viewNews/390.php
But here are some basics.
Statesman said if it were up to him you will not have to pay more to use both games and he is going to fight for just that, However Cryptic does not make the marketing decitions NCsoft does and they might charge $14.95 each beacause thier are two seperate stand alone games.
Here's some basics.
Cov will be a stand alone game, (you will have to pay full price for it) you will not need a copy of CoH to play it, so even though it's said its an expansion game, it is not. Statesman has said you will never have to pay for an expansion to CoHs because we pay a monthly fee to play.
Second: Statesman said that ALL Villain Arch Types Would Be Different than All Hero Arch Types... They are going to balance Villain AT's with Hero AT's, so they can't be the same.
Third: CoV will have it's own PvE content and they are not going to want Villains to start out a 50th and miss 49 levels of PvE content, that just crazy talk.
Fourth: Statesman said that Villains will be able to fight Villains and I believe that most PvP will be Villain vs Villain not Villain vs Hero. Hero vs Hero is going to be very limited maybe just arena's and danger rooms, However Hero vs villains will be much more but still limited to Base raids, Mission's, and some new Trail Zones.
Its sounds like to me that CoV will be a PvPers dream and CoH's will stay pretty much the same where you never have to do or even see PvP if you don't want to. Player villains are not going to be on the streets of Paragon City even though CoV suggest that on its cover.
The rumor is that CoV will be an exact copy of the zones from CoH except it will be from an alternate Universe kind of like the star trek show "mirror mirror" where kirks meets his evil twin. We have interdeminsional missions now, and that is how they are going to connect the two story lines. The two games will interact like I said though special missions, base raids and Trail zones that no one from CoHs will ever have to do these PvP stuff if they do not want too.
You will be able to play CoV with-out ever meeting a Player control Hero and Vice Versa. I have the feeling, but do not know, That CoV will be slanted or even designed with PvP being the dominant style of play; and CoH's will be left PvE dominate so They can try and make everyone happy.
But just look at it from a money making system (which all MMORPG's really are) why would they want to make anyone start this new game at the end of the content where they can get bored and leave when they can have them run though the PvE and PvP content from the Beginning and keep them paying longer?
PvPers will love CoV's I have no doubts, and CoH's will benefit from the new PvP content with out changing the current PvE content. This is a win win for both sides...
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Suppose they end up creating two game worlds that only 'touch' where PvP is enabled.
In that case I think it could be really interesting, and paying separately would not be anathema.
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I agree, that would be an interesting spin. I wouldnt be totally abhorrent towards that idea after I sat and thought outside the box for a second. Would I play COV? maybe. would I play them both at the same time? no.
but it would add more than just "factions" you could get some serious hate going on.
One thing I hope for, you cant create villans on the same server you ahve heroes on.
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This is exactly what they are doing two seperate games that touch only though PvP....
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Uhh, is it just me, or is anyone else worried about having to crank out 30 bucks a month to keep playing?
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Uhh...they already said a long time ago it's one monthly fee for BOTH games...that equals 15 bucks, not 30.
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CoV is an obvious expansion to CoH.
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It's not a "true" expansion in that it can stand alone. It's more of a suppliment than an expansion. Either can work fine alone. This breaks the normal "definition" of an expansion.
That being said, I definately won't be happy if they charge for each individually.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
People, people, people...
Your NCSoft account management page says 'add new game'. It doesn't say 'create a new account for a new game'.
Your $15/month pays for whatever NCSoft games you have purchased and registered. Fair, since you can only play one of them at a time. Hence, the OP's concerns are unwarranted, as are the concerns of those that have filled 4 pages of this thread even after Lord Recluse's response set the OP's mind at ease in the second post.
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People, people, people...
Your NCSoft account management page says 'add new game'. It doesn't say 'create a new account for a new game'.
Your $15/month pays for whatever NCSoft games you have purchased and registered. Fair, since you can only play one of them at a time. Hence, the OP's concerns are unwarranted, as are the concerns of those that have filled 4 pages of this thread even after Lord Recluse's response set the OP's mind at ease in the second post.
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Lineage II is also one of those accounts you can manage on NCsoft. Are telling me you can play lineage II and City of Heroes and still pay one flat monthly fee of $14.95? I don't thinks so....
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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.
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That's just arguing semantics. You know what I meant.
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I don't thinks so....
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That is exactly my point. What we think doesn't matter. The ones who know are those whose names appear in red. Whether or not they decide to tell us anything is beyond our control and everything else is speculation.
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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.
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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.
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Fine, that doesn't change the point though.
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What was the point, exactly? *GASP!* Imagine that! They're using profits from one project to fund a new one! HOW COULD THEY! Nevermind that EVERY F***ING GAME DEV COMPANY OUT THERE DOES THIS.
Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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Not to mention they are probably using CoH employees to do it, meaning we pay for development time of a different game than the one we are playing.
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No, they're using Cryptic/NCSoft employees to develop it. Employees work for the company not the game. The same employees at Mythic who developed DAoC developed the expansions for that game as well.
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Fine, that doesn't change the point though.
Edit: Acutally, since we're correcting each other
Mythic actually said that they had a separate deveolpment team they created for the expansions to their game and that the content developers working on DAoC were not in fact the same employees that were working on the expansion. So there! *Insert Raspberry here*
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That still proves my point. THE COMPANY MADE THE GAME. The checks are not from CoH or CoV. Unless a completely different company makes the expansion - its made by the same people. Your money for CoH goes to Crytic/MC Soft. They don't have to use that money solely on CoH.
To put it in simple terms. Hershey Chocolates owns and makes Reeses right? Well, buying a Hershey bar does make the company put more money in to those. That money is then used to pay all of their employees - regardless of the candy brand or flavor purchased. The money goes to the company - not the product.
To make expansions for games, the companies will hire more people. Its called growth. If they didn't sell more products, thus requiring more employees, they'd be downsizing and probably going out of business or getting bought out.
But you're right that wasn't the point.
My gut says that CoV will be on a different server and there will be a crossover area. I only say this because the CoV site says "...Players then work their way up the ladder of a villian organization in order to gain super powers. Once endowed with super abilities, players enter Paragon City and begin their own reign of terror..."
So, we won't start off with super powers and doesn't sound like we'd be fighting player heroes until we advance some levels. I could see how there could be 2 separate charges but that'd be really stupid as said on this thread numerous times. Why cut off your established target base?
However anyone wants to justify the extra cost, I fall into a large camp that will be entirely underwhlemed if CoH and CoV are not somehow covered by one single monthly fee.
I already pay for 2 CoH accounts now so that my son and I can both play Superheroes on the weekends, it's just not that feesable for me to slap out another $30 for CoV and I'm one of those people that would be bothered greatly and feel I was missing a HUGE part of the game if I didn't. 
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Your NCSoft account management page says 'add new game'. It doesn't say 'create a new account for a new game'.
[/ QUOTE ] Notice it is called a MASTER account. as in a account that controls other accounts. It is just them putting all your info you might want to look at in one place instead of going around to multiple pages ( which atm would be 2, CoH and Suckage, er, Linage 2)
Orc&Pie No.53230 There is an orc, and somehow, he got a pie. And you are hungry.
www.repeat-offenders.net
Negaduck: I see you found the crumb. I knew you'd never notice the huge flag.
If the cost of playing CoV and CoH is greater than $15, I will not buy CoV. Also I will probably stop playing CoH, because I will not be able to access all of the goodies that I want in CoV.
Right now I'm paying $30 a month so that my wife and I both may play. I will not pay a cent more in monthly fees.
Let there be NO doubt. Though i love CoH immensly,and have been waiting excitedly for Cov. Even though many in my Super group has tried unsuccessfully to derail me to go to play Wow. This payment plan of seperate payment rate for Cov WILL lose my perticapation hands down. WoW will become my new home. Don't get greedy guys. The game is good, but so is the compitition.
I cetainly don't mind paying a Purcase fee, but egads a seperate payment will NOT do.
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Your NCSoft account management page says 'add new game'. It doesn't say 'create a new account for a new game'.
[/ QUOTE ] Notice it is called a MASTER account. as in a account that controls other accounts. It is just them putting all your info you might want to look at in one place instead of going around to multiple pages ( which atm would be 2, CoH and Suckage, er, Linage 2)
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Of course it says 'Master' Account (then goes on to give a definition of what they mean by the term).
If you'd gone on to read my subsequent post on the subject, you'd understand the embarrassment I now feel for you.
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CoH without CoV: $50 box fee, 1 free month playtime, $14.95/month. Player can only play a hero in Paragon City.
CoV without CoH: $50 box fee, 1 free month. $14.95/month. Player can only choose a villian in Paragon City.
CoH + CoV: Player with CoH buys $50 box of CoV, and gets 1 free month of game time credited to their existing account. Price remains $14.95/month and player has choice between heroes or villians.
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Thats how its gonne go, for the 5th time in the ONE thread. The possibility is out there that you can pay for eacyh game seperate. Well then, fine. be a moron and pay 30 bucks a month instead of tieing CoV to your current account and (continue) paying $15. Its not that hard of a consept to grasp.
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You certainly have a way with words there.
The problem is this. Lets assume I have numerous chars on CoH that I still have lots of fun with and want to develop them further.
When CoV comes out and has it's own monthly fee, then like some people have already stated here, quite a number of people will drop CoH and migrate over to CoV.
That would mean that I'll have to keep on switching subscriptions between CoH and CoV just so I can play them.
Not happening.
This is what I want/expect:
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If you buy both, you pay 1 monthly subscription fee and can play either CoH or CoV, choosing which one to play each time you log on. I imagine the choice will be made by deciding to play either CoH or CoV (which Icon you click to start the program from Windows).
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The beauty of games like EQ is that your chars stay the same, but each expansion opens up more worlds/possibilities to you. That and simply because of the sheer principle, I will not pay for both games.
I do not want to pay 2 service charges on a monthly basis to play the game. I might even switch back to EQ or AO if that becomes the case.
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Suppose they end up creating two game worlds that only 'touch' where PvP is enabled.
In that case I think it could be really interesting, and paying separately would not be anathema.
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I agree, that would be an interesting spin. I wouldnt be totally abhorrent towards that idea after I sat and thought outside the box for a second. Would I play COV? maybe. would I play them both at the same time? no.
but it would add more than just "factions" you could get some serious hate going on.
One thing I hope for, you cant create villans on the same server you ahve heroes on.
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Yeah, I gotta agree that this mentioned idea I do not find as unpleasant. It smacks more of them trying to create something new and better in terms of game concept than it does sticking it to the customer. There is still something that bothers me about it, but I'm not sure what