Nova_Prime_II

I just wanted to say this sounds Great!!!

WoW, That was the most, polite, informative, thought out post I have read by you Lord_Recluse.

I solute you Sir

I have spoken of you in anger before and I'm sorry. I have renewed respect for you. You have truely risen to Stateman's level with that post.

However, I'm afraid I must still arrest you if I find you wondering the streets of Paragon City.

Looking forward to base raids!!!!!

I play alot of high level meleer's and I can't imagen any flyiers accepting a challange with travel powers off!?! I think they will be alot of lonely "Travel Off" matches as all the Fliers and probable the Super Speedsters avoid them like the plaque.

JMO

Statesman has said he does not want the price to be raised for running both accounts, but he said that he does not have the final say.

NCsoft has said they would like to raise the price of using both a little bit maybe $5, so $20 instead of $15 to cover the cost of two separate programming teams one for CoH and one for CoV, but then clarified that no decision had been made about it.

IMO there will either be no increase in fee for using both or just a small increase in fee depending if they decide on one or two content design teams...

As for the game being a stand alone or just a expansion, CoV is defiantly a Stand Alone game and not an expansion regardless as to what the CoV website infers...

WoW states this is great

I would like to see a Team Speak feature added to super groups, I know you guys said some where you would not add any team speak features to CoH, because you could not review/control the content and their might be griefing though the system, but I think in a super group mode only this should be less likely to happen and it would sure make SG's battles much more coordinated

Though stated before more ranks and customizable ranks, the ability of the founder to kick anyone on or off-line, the ability of founder to step down, and a special super group costume slot designed by the founder after the super groups does a special TF.

And the number one feature is a base, I want it now before CoV is out and I'm willing to pay $49.99 right now just for that feature alone. My Visa card is ready... I want a base for my SG

I love your guide 5 stars for you!

[ QUOTE ]
What! Pro wrestling is... fixed?!? <faints>

[/ QUOTE ]

ROFL

[ QUOTE ]
In a comic book, if one side is much more organized and connected, won't they usually win anyway?

[/ QUOTE ]

No they won't, in the comic books the hero's win 99% of the time regardless of powers, levels, or tatics...And all fights have been decided before the comic goes to print just like pro wrestling

I still think a modified "monster Code" where all players con white in any PvP contest would be the simplest and most elegant solution.

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
There is also the issue of things like the respec trial, which was even before the change considered very difficult for the average group.


[/ QUOTE ]

Before the change, there was a success rate of just under 80%.

[/ QUOTE ]

Statesmen you have used the 80% number before on the success rate of the Respec TF and that did not feel right to me then and it does not feel right now.

So, I have a couple of questions for you about that statistic, first what constitutes a failure?

My meaning is if a group starts the TF and then the whole groups drops the TF before the Reactor explosion because they think its to difficult or have had to many deaths is that considered as a TF failure? Because many of the groups I have been on that we as players have considered failures were when the whole team drops out after several team wipes. This would usually happen after going into the first big room of Tera Volta mission, the room with 6 side doors and the bomb trap by the far door, after one or two team wipes everyone would quit and go back to the IP contact to get-on or make a better team for the TF.

IMO that's a failure.

SO could you give me the statistics on the % of the respect TF that are started to the % that are completed successfully?

I just can't believe that 80% of the Respect TF started are completed successfully!

Really, Really, Really interested in the answer...

PS what type of army do you play in 40K? I play a Black Templar space marine army

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with scaling damage up or down based on target level is that you're basically denying the higher level player the just reward he's earned for leveling his character. If a level 10 shooting at a level 40 does 40th level damage, what's the point?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now that I'm calm, What's the point?

Fun, the point is Fun. It's no fun to be in a contest when you have no chance to win and since the majority of the players are low level that means the majority of the players will not have fun in your above example.

[ QUOTE ]
could end up harder than LFG in Faultline at 4 in the morning.

[/ QUOTE ]

I loved this line...

Could end up being harder than finding a "looking for group" in fault line at "4:00am" in the morning

That my friend would be hard indeed.

[ QUOTE ]
Whoa... easy there. I don't see where EightyGee's last post necessarily excludes sneak attacks or battles between characters that can expose each other's weaknesses. The third possibility she outlined was zone based PvP.

[/ QUOTE ]
I'm with you on this also. I see PvP happening in 4 distinct area's

Arena's for hero vs hero or team vs team
Maybe HQ Danger Rooms for hero vs hero or team vs team also. I see no dept or rewards for these contests.

HQ raids, villains raiding Hero's HQ and vice versa for items of power.

Mission based PvP Hero vs villains and vice versa.

PvP Hazard zones between the area's that separate CoH from CoV these PvP Hazard zones could be Open, level restricted, or both

I see consensual being different for each type of play
Arena type or Danger Room type either one on one or team on team, a request must be sent and excepted or no PvP happens.

If HQ raids then super team must toggle raids excepts on or off with a 24 hour time delay.

If Mission based, the mission must be clearly mark PvP and upon entering the mission PvP is accepted and cannot be turn off with-out mission failed.

If Hazard zoned base PvP is accepted as soon as you enter the zone. There should never be a Non-PvP mission or story line issue that would require you to enter a PvP hazard zone.

So, I never hope to see any Open PvP in city zones..

That's what I see as consensual, but that is not enough. To get the largest community base interested into playing PvP I also think that we must level the playing field.

Suggestions:

First, level scaling to target for most PvP interactions, IE low level toons damage & to-hit scales up to target and high level toons damage & to-hit scales down to target making level and hit-points differences between like classes meaningless.

Second, For one on one fights (probably danger room only) or when both players or teams agree, for a really balance fight everyone is exampled to the lowers level player. (note this will not work if level difference is great)

This is what I want to see...

This was good too.
[ QUOTE ]


1) SCALING:either damage or accuracy or hitpoints..up or down; limited scaling within a limited level range or extensive scaling of all levels

2) Absolute LEVEL PARITY: complete negation of original status of combatants and equalization in terms of hit points/powers/etc.

[/ QUOTE ]

[ QUOTE ]
And Nova enough with your labeling...its annoying. If you do want to get into the ridiculously ideological...then here:I accuse you of being classist, who offers nothing but divisiveness through overly broad and blind categorization. Someone who does not offer an argument based on criticism of an idea..but instead attacks the person personally. Althoug lol...calling someone elitist is pretty elitist yourself...ah..lol..i'm falling into the same trap..

[/ QUOTE ]

HeHeHe...And 5 stars for you because you have a sense of humor. Of course, many truths are often spoken in jest...Hmmmm

[ QUOTE ]
Maybe there should be two different types of PvP zones. One for players to match their toons, regardless of skill, and another for players to match their skills, regardless of toon.

[/ QUOTE ]

This would work for me also...

[ QUOTE ]
So the REAL question here isn't which system you like, the question is whether you actually enjoy challenging fights. If you want a challenge, then you want the levels statistically equalized. If you don't, well, then you probably should be fighting unintelligent mobs, not other players who will have no fun in a one-sided encounter.

[/ QUOTE ]

You are exactly right, so 5 stars for you

No consensual PvP has not gone away. Some of us still think that even with consensual PvP that the huge benefits that level difference provides will still make consensual PvP unfun, and I for one would like to see a target level scaling system to Consensual PvP just to level the playing field.

Statesman has clearly stated he wants PvP to be Consensual, and I have not seen anything posted by a Dev that has chanced this stance.

[ QUOTE ]
PvP Level would be your combat level, plus a modifier based on your prior performance in PvP combat. If you gank lots of people who are way lower than you, your PvP Level starts to drop. Slowly at first, and then faster and faster until the lvl 6 n00bs you're trying to gank are actually stronger than you.

You could work off this penalty by actually defeating people your own size [or bigger, for faster results].

[/ QUOTE ]

While an interesting Idea, this is too prone to cheating, works this way, two 50th level gankers each take turns ganking lowbies and then beating each other to ger rid of the defeat lowby dept.

Just a thought

Their is to much Levelism in all MMORPG's to have good PvP mechanics

definition of levelism:

levelism refers to beliefs, practices, and institutions that negatively discriminate against players based on their perceived or ascribed level. Sometimes the term is also used to describe the belief that level is the primary determinant of players capacities, or that individuals should be treated differently based on their ascribed level. There is a growing, but controversial, tendency to state that levelism is a system of oppression that combines levelist beliefs – whether they be explicit, tacit or unconscious – with the power to have a negative impact on those discriminated against on a societal level.

[ QUOTE ]
I forgot all about SK'ing!

MentorBots(tm) will be the greatest thing since the TaxiBot and give all those bored 50's something to do.

"Been challenged to a fight? Call MentorBot and we'll send a lvl 50 hero to stand on the sidelines while you fight your nemesis!"

Of course, the villians, once hip to this, will do the same thing. In the end, all PvP battles will be even-con - One artificially upleveled lvl 49 vs another.

Now, how is that better than building an even-con system for PvP in the first place?

[/ QUOTE ]

Ha, I love it!

5 stars for you...

I hope MentorBot is not already taken, because I'm starting that tanker tonight.

You have given me my WarCry to "MentorBot here to save the day" HeHeHe

ROFL, I can't stand it...I'd give you tens stars if I could

Even con scaling instead of target level scaling would still be horribly ineffective if level difference was large as in the case of a 40th level against a 10 level.

Assuming both are blasters Level ten would hit level 40th for about 100pts, while level 40th would have about 900 hit points.

Conversely level 40 would hit level 10 for about 400 hit point but the level ten would have about 400 hit points

Under the even con code the 10th level hero would still be one shotted 75% of the time assuming 75% base acc

While the 40th level would have to be hit more than 9 times before the 10th is hit even once for the 10th to win. The reason I'm saying more than 9 times is because the 40th level blaster is healing during this time.

This is not even taking into account that the 40th level will have 5-7 attacks available for them to use and probably perma-hasten and a fully slotted stamina to really increase their DPM

The 10th level player will only have 3 attacks at the most, hasten unlikely and no stamina.

I think the damage must scale also if you want any PvP contest that include players of very different levels, one on one this might not be a problem, but team on team it will be, so scaling level to target would produce better results IMO

[ QUOTE ]
And I stand by my statement that you deliberatly posted remarks to flame me, and try to humiliate me.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lets agree to disagree then. OK?

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]

I disagree, Bob has not earned any rights by leveling...This is Elitist thinking and is as mind poisoning as racism!

And why does anything bob earn while playing PvE entitle him to any advantages in PvP?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hew, dont start flaming me for puting my opinion out here. You want to start calling my way of thinking racist ? Try be a little mature about this, and be a little less harsh on your way of words. I did not attack your comments, nor did I attack anyone elses comments. I was simply giving an example of what might happen, and even used made up names, and instances. I am offended, and hurt, that you would think of me as Elitist, and Racist.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm glad you quoted me completely, I'm sorry you were offended but having said that I stand by my original statement.

This was your statement I found to be elitist:

[ QUOTE ]
What I am trying to get at, is that you cannot make it so a level 2 will have any chance to hit a level 44. That level 44, whatever vice he has with the world, has earned his right at that level.

[/ QUOTE ]

This is what elitist means:

Elitism
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Elitism is a belief or attitude that an elite (a selected group of persons whose personal abilities, specialized training or other attributes place them at the top of any field) are the people whose views on a matter are to be taken most seriously, or who are alone fit to govern. Under elitism these people are seen as occupying a special position of authority or privilege in a group, as opposed to the majority of people who do not match up with their abilities or attributes. Members of an inherited elite are aristocrats.

I did not call you a racist, I call you an Elitist (which you are) and I compared the Intolerance of Elitistism to racism.

definition of racism:

Racism refers to beliefs, practices, and institutions that negatively discriminate against people based on their perceived or ascribed race. Sometimes the term is also used to describe the belief that race is the primary determinant of human capacities, or that individuals should be treated differently based on their ascribed race. There is a growing, but controversial, tendency to state that racism is a system of oppression that combines racist beliefs – whether they be explicit, tacit or unconscious – with the power to have a negative impact on those discriminated against on a societal level.

Just replace the word "Race" in the above definition to "Level" and you will see the comparison I'm trying to make.

Does that clear it up for you?

Again I was not calling you a racist and I apologize it you felt insulted but, I still stand behind my statement.

That what I want, Level to scale to target. so a 10th level payer targeting a 40th player will do 40th level base damage and a 40th levle player targeting a 10th level player will do 10th level damage.

If you want to post 40th level damage for the 40th level toons so they can feel good about their attack thats fine with me as long as the effect on the 10th level toon is 10th level damage.

I want PvP to scale to target and PvE to remain the same as is.

Great post, I wish I was as talented a writer as you are. I'm afraid I'm not helping the cause much because I'm a poor writer.

If only I could talk to these guys face to face.