Ooooo... I like yer idea!!! (Not sarcasm) Sounds good.
The part of the broadcast msg of a possible jailbreak is a good one.
5 stars!
oooh I feel all warm and tingly.
There's a slight wrinkle in your plan I believe, particularly in the 'punish the lowbie ganker' section. In my experience, lowbie gankers tend to frequently have an entire SG/clan/guild/flock of like-minded individuals backing them up.
Under your system, they've effectively got no penalty because they don't log on unless 20 or more of their buddies are on anyways, so they'll always have the option to get broken out of jail. Now, the broadcast about the jailbreak helps some, but still, you'll wind up with the uberSG's ganking with relatively little fear because they've got the numbers and tactic of the week to fend off the attackers and keep their buddies out of jail.
At the same time, if none of your SG is on and you happen to AOE the guy that was sidekicked who accidentally 'clicked the wrong button' and unsidekicked in the middle of your AOE, you're suddenly in a world of hurt because if you die, you're stuck in the gulag for 2 hours.
Not trying to drag you down, just pointing out flaws, cause I'm sure you know, when it comes to PvP, if the code allows it, it will be done.
Just a thought or two.
Wile E. Canuck.
good point, yeah people will always try to circumvent the system. The Sidekick thing is easy. The consequences don't work if the person was sidekicked to your level range in the last 5 minutes... that would be easy to code...
The hard part is you would need to have a veritable army of heroes to keep the criminal scum in jail. What I would do to help some would be to make a special spawn of guards right outside the door to the cell of the guy who you plan to bust out... These guys all can see right through invisible and would be lvl 5 + the level of the prisoner....
The spawn would consist of:
1 +5 Sapper Boss
2 +5 Healer Lts
1 +5 Dark Melee/Regen Scrapper (boss)
1 +5 Mind Controller (specializes in Stuns and Psionic Blasts) (Boss)
1 +5 Lt mob who specializes in things like halting regeneration, and halting endurance regeneration...
Set the room up so that its a small room, with a small L shaped hallway... If you round the corner of the L you are in range of their weaponry... so you can't watch them without reacting. To make things better, they don't move past that hallway nook so they can't be kited out...
Since it would be a TF situation it doesn't matter if they have 20 SG mates because the max you could bring would be 8. Have the mobs set to go after priority targets instead of normal aggro management...
Defender Types ---> Blaster Types ---> Controller Types ---> Scrapper Types ---> Tanker Types
So that Defenders get dropped first, followed by Blasters, then Controllers, Scrappers, and Tankers...
(this means a well balanced team could do it... it would be a nightmare to pull off though)
The other part would be also the wildcard of PC defenders...
Smart Defenders would hang back until that room got hit, then would pince the enemies off in the hallway forcing them to fight both a player group and the guards at the same time.
And if the rescuers fail, well... they go to the Gulag too.
Hehe, well, I can't say I mind the idea of the "gankers-with-anger-management-issues" group being punished by sitting in jail for, well, ever. It would serve them right. However, I doubt that this system will be necessary, because Lord Recluse has alluded to two separate systems which will both keep ganking in check and keep PvP both fair and fun.
u know i think probably minions would go rescur u to if a VG also decides to rescue then there aidded by the minions.
The best way to prevent ganking is to have no penalty for ganked players. No debt, and some ambulence/medic shows up and rezes you to full health. And to prevent the same person from repeatedly ganking you,......(input the prison idea here) You could also lower the level of the ganker for an hour to -5 the gankee.
lowering the level of the ganker would be nice...
hehehe
Ganker: "Haha! I pwz0rz j00!"
*emote laugh*
*emote dance*
system: "You have attacked a person far outside your level range without provocation. You will now be reduced for one hour to that person's security level minus five. Furthermore your victime who is more powerful than you are now is about to be raised with full health and endurance.... Have a nice day."
Doesn't the PvP have to be consentual? If so, doesn't that mean that there would be no way for Random Villian A to gank Random Hero B without first issuing a challenge of some sort?
Sorry, there's too many ways to break this. It's hard, almost impossible, for us to automatically know an attack is "unprovoked". What if the lowbie is part of a group of higher levels? In that case I'll make sure all my PvP groups have one low-level toon just to trigger the drones (and kick him from the group right as the battle starts just in case you try to say he was part of a higher level group). Drops out of SK mode (which would be a griefing trick for sure)? What if you accidentally catch a lowbie in an AoE intended for a different group?
Second, alpha strike style punishment is seldom the best solution. Such systems can usually be exploited or misapplied which only upsets players who try to work within the system (especially if the punishment is misapplied to them). As soon as such a system is seen is flawed it can ruin people's opinions of PvP, even if it is never applied to them.
Our goal is not to punish players after the fact, but to create systems that remove the possibility. Toons need to be at least 15th level for standard PvP. PvP zones will have security levels applied to them (somewhat but not exactly like hazard zones). Missions will involve a matching system. None of these are guarantees but they should reduce the opportunities. For base raids and arenas (where matchups can potentially cover a broad range) players will need to volunteer to take part, so there is an implied "do at your own risk" to these.
Nonetheless, it is good to see the suggestion posted. Every idea generates more thought and has the potential to trigger a great solution or remind us of a case we overlooked.
How about setting up PVP so that it's not a straight numbers game wher ehigher level characters do more damage to lower level players, but instead all PVP powers are percentage based.
So that someone thta is L20 with his main punch 6 slotted with DO's would do the same damage as a L50 character who had the same puch 6 slotted with DO's (granted a higher level player would have SO's and therefore do more damage but the lowbie could at least compete).
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How about setting up PVP so that it's not a straight numbers game wher ehigher level characters do more damage to lower level players, but instead all PVP powers are percentage based.
So that someone thta is L20 with his main punch 6 slotted with DO's would do the same damage as a L50 character who had the same puch 6 slotted with DO's (granted a higher level player would have SO's and therefore do more damage but the lowbie could at least compete).
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I could live with this, because my L41 has SOs, more slots, more powers, better powers, and more HP. I'd still pwn the L20 - but it wouldn't be just pie.
That said... I still wouldn't mind seeing the broadcast thingie saying "Villain Group X is attempting to break Bobby the Knife out of Prison" as a call for heroes to come stop the jail break.
And of course, vice versa if a hero group is trying to save their friend from a villain's holding cell dungeon. Think of it along the lines of your friends coming to break the door down in the 5th column prison cells.
Virtue: multiple characters.
CoH/V: Woot! Maybe Fun is to be had once again.
Ack! RUN! Regen is glowing mean & green!
If it reduces you, it's a nerf.
If it buffs the mobs, it's challenge.
They are not the same.
I also love the idea for a broadcast-level call to arms for jailbreaks and whatnot. I think that would effectively help out with one of the weaker points of the game, which is urgency.
I mean, Paragon's overrun with crime, but not one single person is having an emergency? The contacts never call you, and it's up to you to go find people that need help. I think it would really amp up the sense of immersion to be called to missions, or emergency sites, and things of that nature (and you could ignore, or turn them down, of course). I think it would especially feel cool to have to rush to someone's rescue, knowing that I could fail a mission -- it's kind of boring knowing that no matter how long I wait, those five doofy hostages will still be waving their arms around waiting for me. Even if all the failure meant was that the villain players escaped from jail, it would still add to the excitement and immersion.
Also -- if there were a broadcast for help, I'm guessing that it would be a bad idea to send a blanket call for heroes to capture one villain escaping, or something. Perhaps the call could be for a variable number of random heroes being requested, based on the level/number of villains causing havoc. Wouldn't want to have 200 heroes show up to bag 3 villains -- imagine the lag and disappointment!
I still think a modified "monster Code" where all players con white in any PvP contest would be the simplest and most elegant solution. 
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lowering the level of the ganker would be nice...
hehehe
Ganker: "Haha! I pwz0rz j00!"
*emote laugh*
*emote dance*
system: "You have attacked a person far outside your level range without provocation. You will now be reduced for one hour to that person's security level minus five. Furthermore your victime who is more powerful than you are now is about to be raised with full health and endurance.... Have a nice day."
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I love that idea!!! 20 stars for you if it were at all possible
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Under your system, they've effectively got no penalty because they don't log on unless 20 or more of their buddies are on anyways, so they'll always have the option to get broken out of jail. Now, the broadcast about the jailbreak helps some, but still, you'll wind up with the uberSG's ganking with relatively little fear because they've got the numbers and tactic of the week to fend off the attackers and keep their buddies out of jail.
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In a comic book, if one side is much more organized and connected, won't they usually win anyway?
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I still think a modified "monster Code" where all players con white in any PvP contest would be the simplest and most elegant solution.
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Exactly. PvP requires "no levels." The Monster code is perfect for this. The advantage of higher players over lower players is not that they would hit harder per shot, but that they would have more powers to choose from.
A 50 against a 5 is still wildly uneven, but it isn't an instant kill, and with level-restricted zones it should keep the mismatches to a minimum.
The Alt Alphabet ~ OPC: Other People's Characters ~ Terrific Screenshots of Cool ~ Superhero Fiction
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In a comic book, if one side is much more organized and connected, won't they usually win anyway?
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No they won't, in the comic books the hero's win 99% of the time regardless of powers, levels, or tatics...And all fights have been decided before the comic goes to print just like pro wrestling
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so say I am the vile dark mistress Lakari lvl 45
and I see Hero Person, the lvl 15, I fly down and decimate Hero Person in one attack...
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Wow, that sounds really evil....hey wait, they are evil.
I think CoH's PvP is going to be really good (I'm a PvEr by nature), but the amount of grief and smack that is going to be carried out in the name of Role-playing will be ridiculous.
wouldnt this idea want to make people "gank" lower lvl players. If there was an entire trial/TF that could only be unlocked by being mean to someone else and causing frustration, i dont think thats something a dev wants...
Also, what if you accidently kill someone, and are in jail for 2 hours... that would SUCK!!!
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...And all fights have been decided before the comic goes to print just like pro wrestling
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What! Pro wrestling is... fixed?!? <faints>
Just brainstorming along the jailbreak idea, it'd be interesting if the outcome of a _consensual_ PvP matchup was that the loser could be "captured" by the winner, and the loser needs to fight his way out of a prison/dungeon, or have his SG rescue him. I'd probably suggest adding a way out of that tho, like if you log out then log back in, your character "escapes" while you were offline.
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What! Pro wrestling is... fixed?!? <faints>
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ROFL 
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I still think a modified "monster Code" where all players con white in any PvP contest would be the simplest and most elegant solution.
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Exactly. PvP requires "no levels." The Monster code is perfect for this. The advantage of higher players over lower players is not that they would hit harder per shot, but that they would have more powers to choose from.
A 50 against a 5 is still wildly uneven, but it isn't an instant kill, and with level-restricted zones it should keep the mismatches to a minimum.
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Actually... I would be happy if they used the "Giant Monster Code", and the villain conned Purple +4 (or 5) my levels. I may still have a chance to flee, and maybe not get one shotted. A bunch of lowbies can still try to gang up on a high level. (Still very hard... like AVs and giant monsters)
I guess that still leaves the question of one lowbie getting beset upon by a team of much higher levels... 1 to 5 odds... they are all like giant monsters in code... all purple... yeah... running may not even be an option...
Prolly have PVP hazard zones more likely... Tough puzzle to figure out... *pondering*
x Jeremy M.
Global Handle: @JeremyM
City of Heroes LiveJournal Community
This is a post about PvP content.
Lord Recluse, in order to help stem the tide of the obviously forthcoming gankers that will appear the second PvP is initiated in this game have you guys thought about having REAL consequences for PvP combat?
REAL meaning, something that you REALLY don't want to have occur to you and would be a serious inconveniance? Right now Heroes recieve Debt when we are defeated. Its an annoyance, but not something that matters to a 50, or actually even a lot of people, but it burns the lowbies.
Mostly I am concerned with Lowbie Ganking, and I have an idea to help with that. If you were place a trigger to prevent lowbie ganking set so that if character X attacks unprovoked character Y and character Y is Z or more levels lower than character X then a police drone appears and zaps character X into jail, where character X is stuck for 15 minutes +5 minutes per level differential beyond Z...
so say I am the vile dark mistress Lakari lvl 45
and I see Hero Person, the lvl 15, I fly down and decimate Hero Person in one attack...
the trigger says 10 levels (meaning anyone within 10 levels of you is fine) so 35 is my current cut off point...
this person is level 15...
Which means a drone shows up and zaps me into a jail cell.
now I have 2 choices:
1: Stay there for my entire sentance:
15 minutes + 100 minutes (5 x 20) = 115 minutes, or 1 hr 55 minutes.
2: Have someone in my villain group fly to the Super Villain prison and break me out (kind of like a special Super Group mission thingy).
This would allow all kinds of cool things:
1) Once the mission is accepted by the team (it works like a TF) a zone-wide message in the prison zone could go off saying: "So-and-so Villain Group is planning a jail break"
2) Heroes could rush to defend the prison.
3) your VG can fight their way through to free you, if they lose then they have to finish out your sentance with you!
The same thing can be set up for heroes who gank bad guys! An evil police drone can show up and port the hero to an evil base with the message, "Ha ha! You took my bait and fell into my trap!" and their SG can come and bust them out, in their case its not a sentance but when the timer is up a police drone can port them out of the jail or something with a police captain or some such saying: "Thank god we finally found you!" it would be great!