I ASSUMED you could tell that was my point from this: Emphasis mine
The Titan StockWatch group seems to think THEY are the reason the stock is falling; which is nonsensical to say the least. To think a small group of people in the US is having any impact on an Asian company who is barely represented in the US shows a complete lack of understanding about NCSoft stock.
A lot of big name companies have seen plummeting stock the past few months for various reasons; none of which are grass-root hate groups.
(Before you say Titan is not a hate group...remember you are speaking to a Korean who was disgusted by some of the actions against NCSoft by using Asian culture in an attempt to inflict shame; which was sanctioned by Titan. So yeah to me; as a Korean American...they are a hate group)
Quote:
| A LOT of stocks are currently down big time...like Microsoft, Google, Apple, Activision Blizzard, Sony, and even Walmart have all taken dives the past 2-3 months... damn you Titan! |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Because in response to the idea that the SaveCoH rally triggered the landslide, you were saying, "No, it was the financial report." 3Q wasn't published until 2 months AFTER the stocks began dropping. So why would I think you were talking about the 3rd quarter?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
What may happen is all development be taken overseas, Arena.net closed down, and somehow either keeping a skeleton translation team here or setting up an english team in Korea.
|
Originally Posted by Brillig
The likelihood of NCSoft closing GW2 due to the stock price dropping is exactly the same as the likelihood of NCSoft closing CoH due to the stock price dropping. Zero.
|
Profitable and stable in...2007. Less profitable and not what many consider stable in 2012; more flat.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
CoX in the MMO world was considered extremely profitable and stable (thus why NCSOFT agreed to buy it in the first place). But as others have astutely pointed out, the profit wasn't enough, and it was starting to decline where it would be in the red soon enough.
The update may or not be true, but what is true is that many of the devs have moved on. So, if CoX rises from the ashes it will be a shell of its former self, and highly likely it will be a full fledged F2P game. |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
As some mentioned, it has more to do with the performances of their other mmos especially B&S and GW2 missing investor's target earnings forecasts.|
Originally Posted by Ogi
Their western income was what, 5% of their world wide total and CoH was ~45% of that, so while I doubt the western response to closing CoH had much to do with their stock dropping like a rock, the management decisions including and not limited to closing down CoH are much more likely a cause.
|
One of the investor updates dated last week 11/7...from and by the actual investor, not NCSoft, seem to say B&S, though decent, was expecting to be like AION at its launch but it comes short of that and GW2, though again having a strong start, is showing decline in player activity.
Also partly attributing stern competition from games like League of Legends which is big over there and a bit of B&S siphoning off people from AION and L2.
They, like NCSoft, seem to be expecting a good/better quarter in 4Q but saying they expect it might peak there and taper off till they launch games in the rest of asia by end of 2013.
----
As for CoX's closure's influence with investors, some hints of that could be surmised from a noticeable lack of mention about it in various reports and investor calls.
I can somewhat understand NCSoft not wanting to bring up the subject, but if it was as significant an event as it is for the players, for that topic to not be initiated by the investors seem a bit telling.
Quote:
My anger at NCsoft hasn't clouded my judgement in the way you would think. For instance, there was another big drop in NCstocks recently, on November 9. While some others got excited about it, I immediately saw it as a knee-jerk reaction to the U.S. election results though, since that is what had taken place the day before, and that naturally would have a very rapid trickle-down effect.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I ASSUMED you could tell that was my point from this: Emphasis mine
The Titan StockWatch group seems to think THEY are the reason the stock is falling; which is nonsensical to say the least. To think a small group of people in the US is having any impact on an Asian company who is barely represented in the US shows a complete lack of understanding about NCSoft stock. A lot of big name companies have seen plummeting stock the past few months for various reasons; none of which are grass-root hate groups. (Before you say Titan is not a hate group...remember you are speaking to a Korean who was disgusted by some of the actions against NCSoft by using Asian culture in an attempt to inflict shame; which was sanctioned by Titan. So yeah to me; as a Korean American...they are a hate group) |
Many companies being down right now is moot. We all know the economy sucks. What is more important is WHEN they started their slide though, and I'm willing to bet that none of the other companies mysteriously lost their upward momentum on that same Monday. Some investors are as timid as deer, dropping everything and running into the woods at the slightest hint of trouble, so the possibility that the Rally set something off doesn't really seem all that odd to me.
On your comment in parenthesis, I wasn't aware that I was expected to say Titan is not a hate group until I read that. I see no other mention of "hate" prior to that moment, so why did you think I was going to say anything about it?
Also, since you have now announced that you have a vendetta against the Titan-network because of an attempt to communicate things to NCsoft in a way that Koreans would more easily understand, I have a question. Why should I consider what you're saying when you try to tell me that the only reason I see a chance that SaveCoH affected NC's stocks, is because I don't like NCsoft? You're saying you have animosity against the Titan-Network now over racially-charged issues, and I'm supposed to assume that your opinion that SaveCoH could NOT have impacted stocks, isn't driven by the same emotions? Is that not a door that swings both ways?
By the way, now that the Pandora's Box of cultural racism has been opened, perhaps this one company has earned itself the distinct privilege of having their "culture used against them" as you put it: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/NCs...ews-E23242.htm
Quote:
I would certainly agree that there is too much hostility being directed towards NCSoft, and unfortunately a significant amount of that is being extended towards Korean society in general. I can understand why you think they are a hate group, given the apparent glee some express at the drop in NCSoft's stock.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
(Before you say Titan is not a hate group...remember you are speaking to a Korean who was disgusted by some of the actions against NCSoft by using Asian culture in an attempt to inflict shame; which was sanctioned by Titan. So yeah to me; as a Korean American...they are a hate group)
|
I think those who are attempting to use aspects of Asian culture in attempt to inflict shame are not actually functioning in a hateful manner (or at least, they themselves do not believe that their actions are intended as such), but rather seeing a potentially effective method of expressing their displeasure.
I am sure you understand the western concept of honour well enough to understand that there is no actual intended hatred from the actions in question, but truth be told, I would definitely agree that there is intense disrespect present.
So, hate group is not entirely accurate, but you're not wrong to perceive it as such, either.
Quote:
Going by the repulsive artwork for Boobs&Sleaze, they seem quite capable of shaming themselves |
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
actions against NCSoft by using Asian culture in an attempt to inflict shame
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
Quote:
It could be odd, or it could just be coincidental.|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Many companies being down right now is moot. We all know the economy sucks. What is more important is WHEN they started their slide though, and I'm willing to bet that none of the other companies mysteriously lost their upward momentum on that same Monday. Some investors are as timid as deer, dropping everything and running into the woods at the slightest hint of trouble, so the possibility that the Rally set something off doesn't really seem all that odd to me.
|
NCSoft's stock price peaked on 9/7, the start of the drop was it's next trading on 9/10.
Which seems to be similar to the pattern with Activision/Blizzard's stock that peaked at 9/6 (think that's on the same day as NCSoft's peak day...need to verify time difference in Korea) before showing a downward trend.
My only "vendetta" is to debunk gibberish; whether it be from Titan or elsewhere. My analysis of NCSoft stock is relative to the DATA that is out there and not an emotional knee-jerk reaction. I don't care if Titan sanctions hate...but that is the main reason I left Titan. I am not out to "prove" anything about Titan; hell it will all be irrelevant in 2 weeks when these forums disappear. I am not even angry at Mercedes Lackey for her kibun; I don't approve of it and think it was a horrible thing to do, but hate? Nah. Erich Fromm said it best "Hate is a product of the unfulfilled life." I don't have the need or time to hate. The issue I have with it is that it was an ill conceived idea that was perpetuated by internet research in an effort to shame someone using their own culture against them. I compare(d) it to: Sending a German company that ceases a product a bunch of Yellow Stars of David with the word MURDERER wrote on them. To me that was the final straw in the declining morality of a group that calls themselves heroes.
My motivation? Maybe someone will actually stop and read what people are writing here and think about their position regarding all of this.
It's one thing to be emotional over something...it is another to let your emotions dictate what you perceive to be truth and reality. I don't like NCSoft. I don't like that they closed down CoH. I don't like that they did not give more of a notice or slowly moved into maintenance, BUT... I understand their reasoning from a logical perspective. I understand their reasoning from a business perspective. I was sad when CoH was closed down. I cried at the rough draft (and final version) of your video. But I am also an adult and can control myself and my emotions. I can step back and see things for the way they truly are and not let my anger create things that aren't there or make me do things which are culturally reprehensible. My sadness will not make my moral objection to an emulator disappear. My sadness will not make me state lies in order to vilify those who created the situation I am sad over. To let my emotions control me takes away my power to control myself...and gives it to someone else (NCSoft in this instance). My displeasure at NCSoft shutting down CoH will not control me and make me into a hateful person. Others have called me everything under the sun on these forums; all the while acting as if their comments are not indicative of their true intentions and a reflection of their character. I am not here to tr0ll...I am here to state what I perceive the truth to be. Unlike others though I do not define my truth by my emotions, but rather by as much fact as possible; not hearsay...fact. Could I say things in a "nicer" way...sure, but why censor myself here? I loathe sugar coating things and if people are offended by my bluntness that is their choice. My words here are no more or less "blunt" than they are when I deal with clients, friends, and family...because I value honesty; and sometimes...the truth does hurt; especially those who don't want to hear the truth.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
My anger at NCsoft hasn't clouded my judgement as much as you would think. For instance, there was another big drop in NCstocks recently, on November 9. While some others got excited about it, I immediately saw it as a knee-jerk reaction to the U.S. election results.
Many companies being down right now is moot. We all know the economy sucks. What is more important is WHEN they started their slide though, and I'm willing to bet that none of the other companies mysteriously lost their upward momentum on that same Monday. Some investors are as timid as deer, dropping everything and running into the woods at the slightest hint of trouble, so the possibility that the Rally set something off doesn't really seem all that odd to me. On your comment in parenthesis, I wasn't aware that I was expected to say Titan is not a hate group until I read that. I see no other mention of "hate" prior to that moment, so why did you think I was going to say anything about it? Also, since you have now announced that you have a vendetta against the Titan-network because of an attempt to communicate things to NCsoft in a way that Koreans would more easily understand, I have a question. Why should I consider what you're saying when you try to tell me that the only reason I see a chance that SaveCoH affected NC's stocks, is because I don't like NCsoft? You're saying you have animosity against the Titan-Network now over racially-charged issues, and I'm supposed to assume that your opinion that SaveCoH could NOT have impacted stocks, isn't driven by the same emotions? Is that not a door that swings both ways? |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
I have a great deal of hatred for what NCSoft has done. I'd made a lot of allowance for them until the followup message where they flat out lied to us. It has nothing to do with the country in which they are incorporated or the race of the management, it has to do with their behavior. And while I do not believe the response to their actions is the main reason for their stock problems, I am taking a small amount of pleasure in it. I'm not particularly proud of that pleasure (unless it puts pressure on NCSoft to say "and we have recently struck a deal for certain assets we were not using" then I'll take a whole lot of pleasure from it).
|
Originally Posted by Terwyn
I would certainly agree that there is too much hostility being directed towards NCSoft, and unfortunately a significant amount of that is being extended towards Korean society in general. I can understand why you think they are a hate group, given the apparent glee some express at the drop in NCSoft's stock.
I think those who are attempting to use aspects of Asian culture in attempt to inflict shame are not actually functioning in a hateful manner (or at least, they themselves do not believe that their actions are intended as such), but rather seeing a potentially effective method of expressing their displeasure. I am sure you understand the western concept of honour well enough to understand that there is no actual intended hatred from the actions in question, but truth be told, I would definitely agree that there is intense disrespect present. So, hate group is not entirely accurate, but you're not wrong to perceive it as such, either. |
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
So if you're a non-Korean who disapproves of NCSoft means you're a racist shouldn't the closing of an American studio be racist as well since it was Koreans taking away the jobs of Americans on the Friday before the national holiday of Labor Day (talk about cultural insensitivity)?
Quote:
That's an...interesting concept you have of German culture.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
I compare(d) it to: Sending a German company that ceases a product a bunch of Yellow Stars of David with the word MURDERER wrote on them.
|
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
An anonymous statement by an ex employee stating how they perceived the situation....aimed at a company.
The other...a direct personal assault based off limited cultural knowledge meant to inflict shame.
Just because someone states their opinion based off their direct experience as an employee; does not mean a group of people are in the right for trying to embarrass/shame someone because they are emotionally upset over a business decision. I signed off Titan once it began using hate as part of it's campaign...and they call me the mean guy 
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
By the way, now that the Pandora's Box of cultural racism has been opened, perhaps this one company has earned itself the distinct privilege of having their "culture used against them" as you put it: http://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/NCs...ews-E23242.htm
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
He knows the secret! All Germans are Nazis! Mein Fuhrer save us!|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's an...interesting concept you have of German culture.
|
(Is this how you play the race card? I normally don't get to do this.)
Quote:
Because that was EVERYONE in the campaign, right? And not just a couple of people at all. The WHOLE of Titan network suddenly turned to HATRED!
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
An anonymous statement by an ex employee stating how they perceived the situation....aimed at a company.
The other...a direct personal assault based off limited cultural knowledge meant to inflict shame. Just because someone states their opinion based off their direct experience as an employee; does not mean a group of people are in the right for trying to embarrass/shame someone because they are emotionally upset over a business decision. I signed off Titan once it began using hate as part of it's campaign...and they call me the mean guy |
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I said the kibun attack was racist. If you disapprove of NCSoft because of them closing CoH I fail to see how that has anything to do with Korea. I also fail to see how their action (the date) even remotely insinuates it was an Anti-American move. If they were trying to be Anti-American they could have forced the announcement ON Labor Day and said something..ya know.. Anti-American.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
So if you're a non-Korean who disapproves of NCSoft means you're a racist shouldn't the closing of an American studio be racist as well since it was Koreans taking away the jobs of Americans on the Friday before the national holiday of Labor Day (talk about cultural insensitivity)?
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
For anyone interested, the only seriously suggested (and acted upon) uses of kibun that I saw was in polite attempts to understand where the Korean decision-makers have been coming from and to facilitate better expression back to them that would properly communicate our collective positions in a way that they'd understand.
I'm sure there were also some ideas about what to do if friendly attempts were still ignored... but everything to that point was still under the premise of being respectful and doing things the right way.
Which, actually, despite some people's claims here, has pretty much remained in tact throughout.
Of course, you all know me, right? Insensitive, foolish jerk-wad that I am and all! 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
It wouldn't have ruined their entire weekend if they announced it while no one was in the office on Monday.
|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
If they were trying to be Anti-American they could have forced the announcement ON Labor Day and said something..ya know.. Anti-American.
|
Have you read their boards lately?
And the kibun was not a "couple" people...a large part of the Titan community participated in...suggested..and endorsed the kibun. If Titan was not FOR it they have several mods who react quite quickly. The kibun was an ill conceived, poorly executed, culturally repugnant campaign...endorsed by Titan.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Because that was EVERYONE in the campaign, right? And not just a couple of people at all. The WHOLE of Titan network suddenly turned to HATRED!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Realllly?
The letter.. The images posted to Twitter (Ya know the Red NCSoft ones etc).
If by polite you mean "How much can we shame them"...sure.
Your completely American understanding of kibun is WAY off. That's like saying "I politely spit in his face."
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
For anyone interested, the only seriously suggested (and acted upon) uses of kibun that I saw was in polite attempts to understand where the Korean decision-makers have been coming from and to facilitate better expression back to them that would properly communicate our collective positions in a way that they'd understand.
I'm sure there were also some ideas about what to do if friendly attempts were still ignored... but everything to that point was still under the premise of being respectful and doing things the right way. Which, actually, despite some people's claims here, has pretty much remained in tact throughout. Of course, you all know me, right? Insensitive, foolish jerk-wad that I am and all! |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
And you're bringing it up here for what reason?|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Have you read their boards lately?
|
You brought up the racism angle here. If you wanted to combat it there, you should have done so there, not troll with it here.
Pretty sure irregardless of THAT Friday..the one before..or the one after...their weekend was ruined.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Ogi
It wouldn't have ruined their entire weekend if they announced it while no one was in the office on Monday.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
Quote:
But that was the Friday of the three day weekend due to Labor Day.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Pretty sure irregardless of THAT Friday..the one before..or the one after...their weekend was ruined.
|
Also, you want "regardless".
Instead of trying to be coy and twisting things...be an adult.
It is called a METAPHOR. I NEVER said that is how I perceive the German culture.
In fact if you would have actually read and understood what I said: It would be a VERY disgusting and hateful thing to do....like the kibun.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
That's an...interesting concept you have of German culture.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
|
CoX in the MMO world was considered extremely profitable and stable (thus why NCSOFT agreed to buy it in the first place). But as others have astutely pointed out, the profit wasn't enough, and it was starting to decline where it would be in the red soon enough.
The update may or not be true, but what is true is that many of the devs have moved on. So, if CoX rises from the ashes it will be a shell of its former self, and highly likely it will be a full fledged F2P game.