I'm just simply going to say this once for anyone looking on who may not be sure, so that they can, at least, make a decision based on who they'll trust a bit more (or, go ahead and search the Titan forums as well)...
I Burnt The Toast's claims are just simply not true, folks.
I'm not even a big part of the Titan Forums or anything. Most of them may not even know me by name or anything.
I did, however, follow many threads and read over there and there wasn't a single element of endorsed anti-Korean racism/culture-attack.
There were some people offering insights and some doing research on the Korean culture and discussions about miscommunications on both sides due to some possible differences and discussions on how better diplomacy could possibly be reached by understanding and using the kibun aspect of Korean culture.
Nothing more. Nothing less.
I have a longtime friend who works as a diplomatic liaison and this is exactly how they respectfully go about dealing with people from all over the world. It's not an attack to attempt to understand and use the culture of the person across from you in negotiations and/or discussions.
No surprise, but, it is my opinion that IBTT is just firing off overly-charged personal negativity at the people of Titan Network.
I saw one instance of inappropriate comments one time (and this was before any kibun stuff had ever come up). I reported the person's post, I sent a polite message to a Korean poster that chimed in and the bad post (and subsequent replies) were deleted by the moderators very quickly.
You all know how TonyV and the Titan Network people roll. Anyone reasonable knows that any such hateful actions are not tolerated (unless you're a catgirl... then you deserve it).
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Twisting metaphors to their breaking point seemed be the thing the anti-Titan crowd was into but I guess only they get to do it. Side-ist.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Instead of trying to be coy and twisting things...be an adult.
It is called a METAPHOR. I NEVER said that is how I perceive the German culture. In fact if you would have actually read and understood what I said: It would be a VERY disgusting and hateful thing to do....like the kibun. |
edit: Sure it's more E_L's schtick but as you've pointed out, one is representative of all since all Titans are now racists.
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So if someone thought they using a translation dictionary, thought they were saying, "I don't like what you did", but what they were really saying was, "I will level your country with my nuclear arsenal."|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Your completely American understanding of kibun is WAY off. That's like saying "I politely spit in his face."
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The most you can blame the person for is misreading the dictionary, not using a better source, or... not being a Korean (if Kibun is one of those "you had to be there" type of things). But his/her actions cannot be blamed on hatred.
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You may need to consult your jerk translation dictionary to be certain about that...|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
...But his/her actions cannot be blamed on hatred.
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(Some may say, "wow, EK? Going there?" Yeah, because there is just no use in putting up with and attempting civil discussion any more. It has reached the ignore or laugh at and have fun with it point.)
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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I have an encyclopedia of insults somewhere, but... it doesn't cover other languages. |
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
You may need to consult your jerk translation dictionary to be certain about that...
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
So? You think had the announcement been made Friday September 7, 2012 the Devs would not have still been upset on Monday September 10th? I mean seriously.. that is your argument...that it was a racist thing to do a on a 3 day holiday weekend?
I am a Korean American; see there.. American and Korean. I took absolutely NO Anti-American statement from the date of the closure. |
Labor Day is an American federal holiday observed on the first Monday in September, that celebrates the economic and social contributions of workers.
Technically, the thread and events in question would be ethnocentric, not racist. A fair but significant difference. It seems to me that the lack of communication from NCSoft regarding the reasons for the closure of City of Heroes (not that they would be obligated to provide them anyway, if they were an American company), and the perhaps mistaken perception that such nonchalant silence is part of typical Korean business practices, is what largely contributes to the negative perception currently being discussed.
Such actions are problematic regardless of the nation a business places its origins.
Toast, unless you've been the victim of a hate crime yourself, don't imply that it is something a group of people are inclined to initiate. You have reasons not to like Titan anymore, and that is fair, but rather than attributing malice as a default, consider the possibility that they just don't have any better information on how to proceed.
You've said it yourself, you are both American and Korean. I am sure you can see all the ways the two cultures conflict. Why should you be upset when people do not know any better?
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From:|
Originally Posted by Electric-Knight
I Burnt The Toast's claims are just simply not true, folks.
... I have a longtime friend who works as a diplomatic liaison and this is exactly how they respectfully go about dealing with people from all over the world. It's not an attack to attempt to understand and use the culture of the person across from you in negotiations and/or discussions. |
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5449.0.html
Post #1
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| Writing a person's name in red ink is tantamount to saying they are dead or will die soon. |
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 Red enough? |
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Correct - there was a hint of pink to that shade - it should really have looked more like this:|
Originally Posted by Brillig
Nothing disrespectful there.
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NCsoft
@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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Done by one person, and OBVIOUSLY meant to represent all of NCsoft, am I right? And I am sure no one has ANY reason to have any negative feelings at all towards them!|
Originally Posted by Brillig
From:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5449.0.html Post #1 Post #7 Nothing disrespectful there. I'm sure that's how all "diplomatic liasons" respectfully go about dealing with other cultures. |
Am I doin' this right?
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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Nice try. Though if we were to look at the private files of anyone involved in international 'anything', we'd probably choke. |
Originally Posted by Brillig
From:
http://www.cohtitan.com/forum/index....ic,5449.0.html Post #1 Post #7 Nothing disrespectful there. I'm sure that's how all "diplomatic liasons" respectfully go about dealing with other cultures. |
Those little bits you posted were never planned to be sent to NCsoft.
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And here's your spokeswoman.|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Correct - there was a hint of pink to that shade - it should really have looked more like this:
NCsoft |
Still think you deserve to be taken seriously?
All of these come to your from Titan.
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Sent to NCSoft:| I think he's trying to cash himself out as gracefully as he can while still retaining that needlessly melodramatic 'kibun' culture mask apparently so important in Korean business. |
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And we will do our utmost to spread the word to every gaming site, every gaming magazine. Every facebook page. Every blog. Every news site. We will spread the word of your DISHONOR and DISRESPECT to your customers. Your lack of Face. You have destroyed the "kibun" of a community the size of a middle-sized city. You think you can survive that as a company? |
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| It involved trying to get the managment of NC soft to understand us, even if we had to deeply shame them into doing so. |
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Red enough? |
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| You are destroying my harmony. I will never get it back, for I am old and the old do not recover quickly. After November 30, I will live until I die in sorrow and loneliness. You are the CEO of this company. This is your fault. You are destroying my village. You have closed your eyes to this destruction. I lay this at your feet. |
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| According to my extensive research on the ancient and noble Korean culture, they're terrified of electric fans. We should send them the scary Western-style fans without timers and threaten to keep sending them until they give CoH back. |
Yeah - you're right... no hatred or culturally degrading stuff there...
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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Wait, so as long as it wasn't intended to be sent to NCSoft, it's okay?|
Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
Nice try. Though if we were to look at the private files of anyone involved in international 'anything', we'd probably choke.
Those little bits you posted were never planned to be sent to NCsoft. |
It's on the Internet. It's effectively published to the world.
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Bigot!
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Originally Posted by Golden Girl
Correct - there was a hint of pink to that shade - it should really have looked more like this:
NCsoft |
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Well, I think NCSoft has sufficiently pissed enough people off that I think many of us would be happy of NCSoft were to die as a company and go out of business.|
Originally Posted by Brillig
And here's your spokeswoman.
Still think you deserve to be taken seriously? |
This is not saying that we wish violence on anyone working for NCSoft and I personally would wish, should NCSoft go bankrupt, that everyone working for NCSoft would soon find a new job. With the possible exception of whatever NCSoft employee who made the call to close the game, then I hope he or she is unemployed as long as it takes the last Paragon Studios employee to find a job after NCSoft fired them.
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
The world beware! I've started a blog
GadgetMania Under Attack: The Digg Lockout
So now you are saying they are just ignorant so it's ok?
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Originally Posted by TimTheEnchanter
So if someone thought they using a translation dictionary, thought they were saying, "I don't like what you did", but what they were really saying was, "I will level your country with my nuclear arsenal."
The most you can blame the person for is misreading the dictionary, not using a better source, or... not being a Korean (if Kibun is one of those "you had to be there" type of things). But his/her actions cannot be blamed on hatred. |
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
I love you, I Burnt the Toast!
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To my knowledge, the letter in question hasn't been sent.
Well, there you have your proof, folks. Time to cast your votes. 
Silent votes are perfectly acceptable. 
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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It's your defense for the Labor Day insult, so other people don't get that defense?
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
So now you are saying they are just ignorant so it's ok?
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N/t to play devil's advocate or anything, but I believe it is common practice in asia to let people go long holiday weekends so that they don't lose face somehow and have extra time to transition. Of course here in he US I have personally been laid off a week before Christmas with no warning. Corporations will do things however they can under the law. And only a fool believes they are not in it for the money.
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Technically, Labor Day was instituted to celebrate the contribution of blue-collar workers. Paragon wouldn't qualify.
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Originally Posted by Ogi
It's your defense for the Labor Day insult, so other people don't get that defense?
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
All of these come to your from Titan.
Sent to NCSoft: Describing the kibun effort: Kibun sent to NCSoft CEO http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fan_death Yeah - you're right... no hatred or culturally degrading stuff there... |
Hang on, hang on! Let's all go cherry pick examples from a couple of emotionally charged people, then try to claim the entire movement is a hatred movement!
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
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Not to mention there is nothing wrong with some of those "examples".|
Originally Posted by Paladiamors
Hang on, hang on! Let's all go cherry pick examples from a couple of emotionally charged people, then try to claim the entire movement is a hatred movement!
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Anyway... have fun all!
EDIT: Actually, there's nothing "wrong" with any of those. The red letters and the electric fans thing are obviously on the attack (albeit in a limited form of posts on an internet forum), but they're not racist nor are they culturally hateful. They're just remarks expressing sentiment in ways that they either believed or were told may translate well in those ways.
Hyper-sensitivity.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
Quote:
There's a difference between being hateful and being ignorant.|
Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
So now you are saying they are just ignorant so it's ok?
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If someone gets hit by a car, it doesn't mean the driver hates them. It might, if the driver was looking right at the guy and put the pedal to the floor. But most likely it's because the driver wasn't paying attention.
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| According to my extensive research on the ancient and noble Korean culture, they're terrified of electric fans. We should send them the scary Western-style fans without timers and threaten to keep sending them until they give CoH back. |
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Originally Posted by I Burnt The Toast
Yeah - you're right... no hatred or culturally degrading stuff there...
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We'll just pretend that actually would have worked, even though a fan delivered by mail would obviously have no power going to it, and everyone present was awake.
Or is this a robo-fan, that would plug itself in and then self-detonate when nobody was looking?
I really need to check on what Titan Cybernetics has been working on lately. Perhaps Mega-Fan is finished. Wait till you see it. It's going to make typhoons look like a baby blowing out birthday candles.
So? You think had the announcement been made Friday September 7, 2012 the Devs would not have still been upset on Monday September 10th? I mean seriously.. that is your argument...that it was a racist thing to do a on a 3 day holiday weekend?
I am a Korean American; see there.. American and Korean. I took absolutely NO Anti-American statement from the date of the closure.