I honestly hope we haven't given up already. Have you given up?

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

For me, what is 'normal' is not relevant to what is good or bad. I'm only referring to the majority as "normal." What is accepted as "normal" is in a constant state of flux. Nowhere did I say anything about having a moral high-ground. That is probably just you assuming anyone who believes in something that is unprovable, is either a door-to-door missionary telling everyone they're Hell-bound, a Westboro Baptist, or a suicide bomber.

And here we have another example of the same generalization. Are you honestly telling me that belief in a god/afterlife means I advocate genocide, just because genocides have been caused by people who believe in a god/afterlife? That implication is absolutely absurd.

The problem is not and never has been belief in a higher power, or an afterlife. The problem has always been the dogmas that have been created based on those beliefs. And even then there are many cases where the violence that is being done in the name of a god is a complete mockery of the alleged word of that god. In the Bible, Jesus talked like a frigging pacifist and instructed his followers to love sinners and non-believers. But in the coming centuries, that did nothing to quell all the urges to wipe out every race of people who didn't agree to worship him.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Just because a person doesnt grieve doesnt mean they dont love. And in the quote above I dont see anywhere where I said I didnt love anything. Not sure how you got that out of that statement. And I'm not lonely at all. Actually I'm already married thank you.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Ah.

I was thinking re-incarnation.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Uhm yeah shouldnt go around crushing people's hopes and dreams for the hell of it.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Please post a link to anywheres in these threads where I have insulted others for having feelings, or ridiculed them for trying to create something new and good that would serve not only the person doing the creating, but many others as well.

You've been doing quite a bit of both, and so scoldings over my "bad behavior" or whatever are falling kind of flat. Do you people really not understand that you are coming off as arrogant, personally-detached, flat-affect..... that people like you and eeeEEEEVVVVVilllll Legacy there seem to be enjoying the pain of others more than just a little bit? [You two are the worst, but you are not the only offenders.]

No? I didnt think so. Welp..... here's my closing sentiment. May the pain you people so enjoy watching, not to mention dishing out, come back home to roost one of these days.

Do I really have to deconstruct that for you? If someone dies and you feel NOTHING, you did not love them. From your prior post I can deduce that you pretty much don't love anyone. Or anything.

If he died, would you care? I'm thinking no. After all, to hear you tell it everything dies or ends and so why would you emotionally invest in anything? Rhetorical question only. We don't have much time left in this game, I would rather be there than arguing about someone's mental health with them. I honestly feel very sorry for you; we usually read about this kind of detachment in textbooks, and here it is in real life.

What about the people that you feel that have not as much feelings as you? I guess they dont count huh.

I think the yard bird has already came to roost with you it seems.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

That is your way of understanding how that works but not how it actually works for me.

If he died, I would care. Would I grieve over the fact that he died? No. We already had that discussion between me and him. And as long as he understand it between me and him, do it matter whether or not you think because I dont grieve that I didnt love him or cared or such? Love and grief are two different emotions from my understanding. It seems that you view it as one emotion or two that cant exist without one or the other.

And if you rather be in game instead of here, is there something stopping you?

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Nope.

I am telling you that choosing to make things up rather than face reality, the fact that this will all just end, there is no afterlife, etc. is the problem.

I am telling you that choosing to understand and accept the nature of reality is a wonderful thing.

I am telling you that if one cannot accept the nature of reality and because of it a person or group chooses to make things up to make themselves feel better because they cannot cope with reality, they are the problem.

I am telling you that the problem is implying anyone who can accept reality and strive to understand the universe for what it is might be less capable of having morals.

I am telling you that in the end there is nothing, which makes every moment precious.

You have implied those of us that value logic over emotion are robots that have to work harder to be moral and that offends me. That is what I am telling you.

Just because I hold logic and reason over emotion does not make me an unfeeling robot, incapable of love and grief. It simply means I value logic over emotion and that try to prevent my emotions from controlling my decisions.

To the point at hand, I grieve for the loss of CoH. I will not allow my emotions to lead me on some vendetta against the employees of a company who had nothing to do with the closure, nor will I allow my grief to allow me to lose sight of that fact it's just a game and that MMOs come and go.

Is that clear enough?

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

I see, so now you are the one who is authorized to dictate who has the moral high ground?

There is no point debating who is or is not facing reality, because the scope of human experience has so far only allowed us to scratch the surface of it. Nobody 'knows' what is or is not 'out there', and anyone else who goes around telling others they are a problem because their assumption of reality is wrong, is a complete hypocrite and is doing so under their own assumptions about reality.

I think you're about 10 pages behind the discussion now. The context of your argument has been absent from this conversation for days. The context of it, was using logic as an excuse for minimizing the accountability of business, for no other reason than, it's business. And in doing so, business is allowed to be amoral, regardless of how destructive it is. As long as it's legal, it doesn't matter if a game is shut down, a thousand people lose their jobs, or ten thousand lose their homes. Also, none of that discussion had anything to do with atheism.

Observation bias.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Now that you mention it, Angry_Citizen, you have seemed like a bit of an *** on these forums. (So have lots of other people, likely including myself.) We're each dealing with disappointment and anger over CoH ending. I'm inferring you're saving people from what you regard as false hopes and additional disappointment. (Shades of "Please stop trying to save me from myself".) I wish you didn't feel it to be necessary to crush hopes and dreams, but apparently you do. Plan Z *IS* happening. To say that it's not is erroneous. To say that Plan Z hasn't released a playable fan-created MMO yet is accurate. To predict that Plan Z will fail is opinion. End o' that story.

As to the "Lackey chick", I had the pleasure of meeting Ms. Lackey and her husband Larry Dixon at a Fantasy convention (where she was Guest of Honor) approximately a decade ago (and a few cons after that as well.) It seems pretty clear that Ms. Lackey is a fan and player of CoH as much as the rest of us, and like many is offering what she can to help CoH continue. Since you are also a writer, who has presumably met with as much success or more in that field than she, you'll have great insight into how well connected Ms. Lackey might be with science fiction & fantasy fans as well as gaming fans, as well as other professional colleagues. You also know how wide ranging these overlapping circles can be, and friends of friends are sometimes just the ticket. The idea that Mercedes Lackey would involve herself in efforts to Save CoH merely to increase book sales is frankly silly (read: ludicrous) and insulting. Celebrity, like wealth, is relative. Oh, wait, I'm sorry; you already know everything! This is my perception of reality. No doubt your next post will reflect your perception of reality. Here's hoping we can each bring something more constructive and understanding to situations like this.

This. I completely agree with Scarlet. And while I haven't completely abandoned CoX, I've made my peace with NCSoft's decision and moved on to other gaming pastures. But no, there's nothing that any of our efforts will yield at this point save for our frustration. Best to enjoy what time there is left and remember the fun.

Can you honestly tell me that science, as we know it, fully understands all the secrets of the universe? There is nothing that we do not know about because science has discovered everything that there is to know?

Please, explain the Higgs particle to me in detail.

Also, explain how Einstein's "spooky things happen at a distance". You know, quantum theory and all that. I don't want you to just tell me data from a book. I want you to explain to me in detail how it works. You should know. It's science after all, and Science knows all. Right?

The simple answer is that you can't because science, as we know it, doesn't know everything.

Different scientific theories suggest that there may be 5, 10, 26, or even more dimensions in the universe... or should it be referred to as a multi-verse? As humans we can perceive only 3 of those dimensions, but it is already a "fact" that there is no god existing in any of them. Amazing, isn't it?

If, as you posit, some god existed outside the normal three dimensional space, exactly what evidence do you have that you know what god it is?

None.

Quite frankly, it's as likely to be the Flying Spaghetti Monster as any other.

(Also, you have a very poor understanding of what those extra dimensions imply. Cosmology should probably be left to professionals.)

Indeed, you've hit on half the fundamental truth.

Science doesn't know everything. Religion makes stuff up.

There's a difference between fiction and non-fiction.

I have absolutely no clue what god it is, and I do not claim to.

It may be the spaghetti monster. And if the behavior of some individuals in this thread is any indication, give the zealotry snowball another 50 years to roll, and the flying spaghetti monster will be passing the Petri Dish around for Tithe offerings, and followers of the old gods will be getting burned at the stake for defying the teachings of Darwin the Prophet.

(considering that each of those numbers is for a completely different theory with different mechanics, I saw no point in making a tldr; post to differentiate between them, since it's completely unnecessary for the point I was making. I only used it to exemplifying how little of our world we actually know. Perhaps I should've just used string theory as an example. Science says it may be possible, but due to its nature, there likely will be no way of ever testing its validity)

Assuming there's no god requires just as much blind faith as assuming there is one.

Wrong. If there is no evidence of X or reason to believe that X exists, assuming that X exists requires a great deal more faith than assuming that X does not exist.