I honestly hope we haven't given up already. Have you given up?
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-11-08 17:31 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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Actually, I think that, for the most part, CoH did fulfill those needs. As for #3 - Both with the original content, and if you follow the hero path (and don't go into First Ward/Night Ward which did force grey upon your character), you rarely had to choose between two not-good choices - at most it was "you can't save everyone". Yes, Praetoria was filled with them, one reason I don't have any Praetorians in my long list of characters. |
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I'll give you a list of possiblities later. I did want to point out now that CoH as things stand didn't measure up to 3 and 3A. You also may be forgetful of CoH's shortcomings in meeting other items on your list. Many games give you those things but in their own way.
From the start in COH nothing you did mattered. I could arrest every villain in atlas and before you completed your circuit of the zone they would be back doing exactly what you stopped from doing 5 minutes ago. You didn't even get feedback on how well or poorly you were doing. The only place your actions actually mattered one way or another was Recluce's victory and then they mattered for all of 6 minutes. The post I18 story line did not leave me feeling like a hero at all. I remember someone in league chat describing the B.A.F. as "Oh Great we are stopping prisoners fleeing from a concentration camp". The magisterium left me feeling completely unheroic. Wonderful our actions have managed to not only destroy a civilization but a civilization that at the time was full of people sympathetic to our cause. Oh just a P.S. I am old as well with physical conditions that make even CoH painful to play in the manner described in the EULA. PM me and I can give you links to programs that take much of the twitch out of twitch gaming. |
And as for matters - I don't mean changes the gameworld. I mean, within the story, I was breaking up plots to do terrible things, I was rescuing people who had been kidnapped. Even on the streets, when street sweeping, I'm stopping burglaries or the Vahz from preparing to rip people apart and such.
Did CoH live up 100% of the time to my wants? No. The KIR and MOM trials are far too twitchy for me ("hey, there are these colored areas on the ground you can't step in or you die. Yes, we're using lots of superpowers that cause a light show so you may not be able to see them until it's too late, but you can't step in them. Oh, you're melee and the archvillain is in the middle of one of those. Well... file your nails or something.") First ward is too gray for my tastes. And I remember nerfs to powers because they were overpowered for PVP.
So I'm not expecting 100% consistency on my list from any game. But they need to be part of the design, what the game tries to do, even if they don't always live up to it. CO, for example, has a lot of the items on my list. I'd wish for more instancing, the ability to set a flag that says "automatically reject any request to duel". The main things it falls apart on is the community building tools, mostly in the forums and moderation - there needs to be a moderator watching Millenium City zone chat with ban hammer in hand.
Right now I'm looking at CO and SWTOR as the closest. And while there are some aspects of SWTOR that make me say "I wish CoH had that" (and maybe a few in CO though there's a lot more I find lacking), I find more "I wish this had stuff from CoH".
My arcs are constantly shifting, just search for GadgetDon for the latest.
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Given that I asked this same question days ago (granted, with more items on the list), and have asked it of you twice more since, I'm starting to suspect there is no "list of possibilities".|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
I'll give you a list of possiblities later.<snip>
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If that's the case, then just admit it.
If that's not the case, then just write the darn list.
But enough of this "Oh, I'll tell you all the games that are just like CoH (but better) later" crap.
They always say that death and divorce bring out the worst in people. Losing this game is kind of like both I guess...
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
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Why do you think anyone here is under any obligation to find a game for you to play?|
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
Given that I asked this same question days ago (granted, with more items on the list), and have asked it of you twice more since, I'm starting to suspect there is no "list of possibilities".
If that's the case, then just admit it. If that's not the case, then just write the darn list. But enough of this "Oh, I'll tell you all the games that are just like CoH (but better) later" crap. |
Get off your high horse and go find one yourself.
If your requirements cannot be met, oh well, sorry, you can't always get what you want, live with it.
Or is that too much blunt reality?
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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That's not "blunt reality", that's you making up your own version of reality. I never said anyone has an obligation to find me a game.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Why do you think anyone here is under any obligation to find a game for you to play?
Get off your high horse and go find one yourself. If your requirements cannot be met, oh well, sorry, you can't always get what you want, live with it. Or is that too much blunt reality? |
Try to follow along:
Another Fan said "Look around not only will you find MMOs that do what CoH did but better, you will be truly upset at how our devs were copying the least fun parts of other MMOs." (That is a direct quote, though the emphasis is mine).
I and GadgetDon both asked him "What games do you mean"?
His answer was to go ignore me entirely, and then reply to GadgetDon with a long unrelated rant, rather than, you know, saying what games he meant.
So I'm not saying anyone has to find new games for me. I'm saying that if someone flat-out says "I know games that do what CoH did, only better", they should at least have the courtesy to say what game or games they're talking about. (Who knows? Maybe they ARE better than CoH. Either way, I'd like to at least try them out and judge for myself)
Of course, I know that "courtesy" is alien to your mindset.
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Originally Posted by Lothic
All we really need is for some eccentric billionaire to drop a spare $10 million or so to buy this game outright from NCsoft - for what it's worth I heard that George Lucas just earned some extra cash recently. Ironically it'd be just that simple, but given that the odds of that happening are effectively nil I prefer to accept the reality that it's time to move on.
It's been a great 8.5 years and I wish everyone well. Good luck with whatever you find yourselves doing next... |
Actually. 80 million. And that may or may not have included the customer list.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
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He asked it a hell of a lot nicer than you did. Have you thought that maybe no one wanted to help you ? Seriously you come off as some punk that wants to prove a point and no one will satisfy. GadgetDon comes off as someone who is genuinely looking for a game and someone I can empathize with because my own physical afflictions have been getting in the way of my life long passion for golf.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
Given that I asked this same question days ago (granted, with more items on the list), and have asked it of you twice more since, I'm starting to suspect there is no "list of possibilities".
If that's the case, then just admit it. If that's not the case, then just write the darn list. But enough of this "Oh, I'll tell you all the games that are just like CoH (but better) later" crap. |
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Here is the relatively quick list hope it puts you on your way. From the sound of your posts, you came out of RPING back when it was young.|
Originally Posted by GadgetDon
Actually, I think that, for the most part, CoH did fulfill those needs. As for #3 - Both with the original content, and if you follow the hero path (and don't go into First Ward/Night Ward which did force grey upon your character), you rarely had to choose between two not-good choices - at most it was "you can't save everyone". Yes, Praetoria was filled with them, one reason I don't have any Praetorians in my long list of characters.
And as for matters - I don't mean changes the gameworld. I mean, within the story, I was breaking up plots to do terrible things, I was rescuing people who had been kidnapped. Even on the streets, when street sweeping, I'm stopping burglaries or the Vahz from preparing to rip people apart and such. Did CoH live up 100% of the time to my wants? No. The KIR and MOM trials are far too twitchy for me ("hey, there are these colored areas on the ground you can't step in or you die. Yes, we're using lots of superpowers that cause a light show so you may not be able to see them until it's too late, but you can't step in them. Oh, you're melee and the archvillain is in the middle of one of those. Well... file your nails or something.") First ward is too gray for my tastes. And I remember nerfs to powers because they were overpowered for PVP. So I'm not expecting 100% consistency on my list from any game. But they need to be part of the design, what the game tries to do, even if they don't always live up to it. CO, for example, has a lot of the items on my list. I'd wish for more instancing, the ability to set a flag that says "automatically reject any request to duel". The main things it falls apart on is the community building tools, mostly in the forums and moderation - there needs to be a moderator watching Millenium City zone chat with ban hammer in hand. Right now I'm looking at CO and SWTOR as the closest. And while there are some aspects of SWTOR that make me say "I wish CoH had that" (and maybe a few in CO though there's a lot more I find lacking), I find more "I wish this had stuff from CoH". |
GW2
If you can live with Swords Sorcery aspect GW2 is really very good. It has solid character customization. They have nearly completely got rid of the gather 500 rat tails B.S. They have solid character customization and the story line puts you in the center of things in ways CoH never did.
I am not sure about PvP yet but so far I haven't noticed it.
TSW
The character customization could be better. But after that everything else is incredible. The story telling takes CoH's picks it up, crumples it and throws it in a wastebasket. It is just that good. Nothing you do is unimportant.
You can team with anyone in the game but it doesn't amplify or shrink your abilities. On the other hand it doesn't matter the way things did here. You can get to 10 (max level) on your starting skills in a few days then how effective you are depends on your gear more than anything else.
It is also twitchy but as I alluded to you can take steps to fix that and you absolutely should. Once you don't have to manually fire your attacks it becomes much more strategically oriented.
Second Life.
It does everything you ask for but maybe not in the way you want. There are many roleplaying gamer communities in SL that run their campaigns within the context of the larger setting. SL lets them run their own combat system and relatively easily build their settings.
It's character customization quite frankly blows every other game's out of the water. Except maybe APB. The downside you will have to explore second life for people doing what you want.
Here is a Starter list
http://secondlife.com/destinations/roleplay
Some of the nay-sayers here seem to have a strange binary view of hope and grief, as if being sad about something means somebody must be moping about it and upset all the time. Or holding out hope means they lose all sense of reality.
I'm sad about City of Heroes ending, but it's not like I'm weeping into my coffee each morning. It's sad and I wish it wasn't happening, but I can feel sad while still realising that it's very much a 'first world problem' and not a dominant thing in my life.
I also hope that the game will continue in some fashion and haven't given up on that, either with NCSoft having some kind of change of heart or with a spiritual successor turning up in the form of Plan Z or otherwise. Hoping that these things happen isn't the same as expecting them to happen. Indeed I think the chances for each are relatively slim and I'm realistic about that, but I still hope they happen.
By way of analogy when I buy a lottery ticket I buy it hoping that I might win. I realise that I almost certainly WON'T win of course, but the people who do win sometimes aren't figments of my imagination. I don't rearrange my life expecting that I'm going to win and booking in celebratory holidays, I just hope it'll happen since it would be nice.
Even if you never play the lottery it takes a remarkable string of luck and coincidences (along with work and good planning and all that good stuff) to get most any good thing in life. Think about the odds of being born at this particular time, of the chances of meeting your significant other, your friends, just being in the right place at the right time. The 'saving' of City of Heroes if it happened certainly wouldn't be the most incredible or unlikely event I've had direct experience of and it seems bizarre that holding out hope it might return in some fashion is considered ridiculous by some people.
Certainly it would be silly if people were completely overcome with grief over the game ending. Or if people were so overboard with hope that they were utterly convinced they could keep playing the game as it is in December. But as far as I can see nobody is saying that, it's just a convenient construct to pretend that others are being that silly so somebody can feel good about being the 'voice of reason'.
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Take a look at the titan boards.
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Originally Posted by Iron_Emerald
Certainly it would be silly if people were completely overcome with grief over the game ending. Or if people were so overboard with hope that they were utterly convinced they could keep playing the game as it is in December. But as far as I can see nobody is saying that, it's just a convenient construct to pretend that others are being that silly so somebody can feel good about being the 'voice of reason'. |
I'll admit that I haven't spent much time on the Titan boards, though it didn't seem too crazy last time I looked. But I'm talking about the reactions I'm seeing in this thread here. If people over there are the ones who need more of a reality check then it should be given over there, rather than long-winded 'hope is crazy!' posts appearing in this thread seemingly in response to a position that has never been stated.
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Although you state this is something that is glaringly obvious the tone of some posts seems to indicate (at least to me) that some are trying to suggest that it's transcended beyond that and in some way has elevated to special status. It hasn't. It is what it is and that doesn't change how ever misty eyed and sentimental your approach to it|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Yes. We understand this. Anything else glaringly obvious, that we're already aware, you'd like to enlighten us on?
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| If this is all you've made of the game, you have my condolences. |
If not, you have my condolences. Nothing sucks more than fair weather friends.
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| However, to some people, the pastime engendered an investment (not a monetary one) that significantly exceeded that of "just a game". |
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Uh yeah. As someone's who's DONE community building, it just DOESN'T work that way. Can some of the community transfer to other games and keep said community? Sure. But, over time, the community tends to assume ot ee and more of the characteristics of the new game's community. Or it stagnates into a clique. |
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Again, the community can transplant. But it's holding an artificial barrier between itself and the greater game community of the new game. So you're not really correct here. To your credit, you did try to keep your post somewhat civil. For that, thank you. |
I'm not entirely sure why you think that just because I don't agree with a lot of the rhetoric in this post I shouldn't remain civil, so whilst your thanks are appreciated, they're really not required.
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I see. First you condescendingly tell me that games better than CoH exist, and I should try one of those. Then I ask you what games you're talking about. Then you ignore me for days and finally only respond by calling me names and belittling me some more. And even then, you still didn't bother to answer the question I actually asked.|
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
He asked it a hell of a lot nicer than you did. Have you thought that maybe no one wanted to help you ? Seriously you come off as some punk that wants to prove a point and no one will satisfy.
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But I'm the "punk".
How does that work again?
No, don't answer that.
In fact, don't bother to respond at all. I'm done with you and your imaginary list of "better than CoH" games.
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I honestly find it hard to believe this game was ever worth -that- much but I don't really know offhand so I'm willing to accept your number as much as any. *shrugs*|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Actually. 80 million. And that may or may not have included the customer list.
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I simply used $10 million as an arbitrary figure - the actual amount wasn't really relevant to my post. Sadly if CoH was at one time worth $80 million (perhaps before the announcement of the shutdown) I suspect that as of today (a couple of weeks before the shutdown) this game is now only worth something closer to my figure. Once the game shuts down completely the property will ultimately be worth even less...
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Well, This is a depressing thread. Blah.
Anyone heading to Ebon Hawk in SWTOR? I really thing that game has some potential to be fixed up to be awesome. Hell, It's the only other MMO i actually ENJOY the leveling process.
Because, Really. Most MMO's (WoW and CoH come to mind) Took about a year and a half before things STARTED to get good.
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You are thick. You asked your question as if you were doing a design spec of CoH. Matter of fact it was so damn specific previous versions of CoH might not have met the spec and I24 might not have.
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Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
I see. First you condescendingly tell me that games better than CoH exist, and I should try one of those. Then I ask you what games you're talking about. Then you ignore me for days and finally only respond by calling me names and belittling me some more. And even then, you still didn't bother to answer the question I actually asked.
But I'm the "punk". How does that work again? No, don't answer that. In fact, don't bother to respond at all. I'm done with you and your imaginary list of "better than CoH" games. |
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Her game's ending too. Did it occur to you that maybe she loved it just as much as you do? Also, it's hilarious seeing someone named "bad_influence" mock someone for being named "evil_legacy". Grow. Up.
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
See, some of us are not totally unlikeable prats like you. Some people..... have a little grace, a little class, they decline to say what they really think because that would reflect ill upon them. In your case my guess is a lot of people have kept their tempers on a leash for this reason. I know I have.
But here's my parting shot, "Evil Legacy" [*snerk* at that name btw...oooooo, scary]: Whereever you go, whatever you do, when one day something YOU love is snatched out from under your nose for no reason..... and when people give you "HAHA GET OVER IT!" for 50 pages of response to your grief.... think of this moment and know: "Yeah.... I bought that. Paid for it in full." Because with your behavior on these forums, you have done just that. And you are hardly some superbeing immune to personal loss, far from it. I never wanna be like some girls. You chief amongst 'em. I read what you post, and I feel disgust. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Doesn't work that way. I'd rather not believe in God and be wrong, than to believe in God and be right. There's a thing called "reality". You should try it sometime. For all you know, God made religion for the sole purpose of weeding out dumbassses from the rest of society so he can calmly and coolly explain to the atheists and agnostics why he really does exist, as equals, not as servant and lord.
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Originally Posted by Twisted Toon
So, you are clairvoyant and can see that will happen in the future with out a doubt? Give me the winning lottery numbers for the next $300+ million please.
I would rather believe in God and be wrong, than to believe there is no God and be wrong. Enjoy your religion of "non-religion". <snicker> You call that empathy? I think you and Webster's have very different definitions of that word. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Actually, religion can be quite easily demonstrated to be an emergent property of human neurology and cognition. About the only thing we can accurately say about God is that, if real, God is simply the engineer, architect, and programmer of reality.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Doesn't work that way. I'd rather not believe in God and be wrong, than to believe in God and be right. There's a thing called "reality". You should try it sometime. For all you know, God made religion for the sole purpose of weeding out dumbassses from the rest of society so he can calmly and coolly explain to the atheists and agnostics why he really does exist, as equals, not as servant and lord.
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Everything else is just procedural generation.
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I would love to see the "proof" behind that, because any reality with God intrinsically requires that God not be the programmer of reality - unless God is somehow beyond reality, but that doesn't even make any sense.
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Originally Posted by Terwyn
Actually, religion can be quite easily demonstrated to be an emergent property of human neurology and cognition. About the only thing we can accurately say about God is that, if real, God is simply the engineer, architect, and programmer of reality.
Everything else is just procedural generation. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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She admitted in a post above, that she pretty much does not really love anything:|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Her game's ending too. Did it occur to you that maybe she loved it just as much as you do? Also, it's hilarious seeing someone named "bad_influence" mock someone for being named "evil_legacy". Grow. Up.
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"Anyways, though there is nothing in this world I would grieve over. You know, Just got a phone call yesterday that a close immediately family died and the funeral is planned for the 26th. Now, I feel not a single bit of grief. And family is the thing I find important in this world. If I feel nothing in that case, what else in this world would I grief over."
So no, I'm thinking by both the evidence of that post, and her general behavior here, that she does not only *not* love CoX, she doesn't love much of anything in her life. I will skip the usual psychological explainations/armchair diagnoses and just say that I literally pity anyone who views the world through a lens like that one. A life devoid of joy, devoid of any real connection to other people.... wow. Those facts she divulged speak for themselves. Nothing I could say would make them worse.
As far as telling me to "grow up," Thanks for the advice but given your behavior 'round these parts lately, you're the hardly anyone to be giving out behavioral advice. Flaming, snarking, insulting, put-down after put-down: yeah, you're a force to be respected and I should care what you think.
....Or not! Maybe you and EL there can start dating. Regardless, fix your own behavior before you start making demands, of me or anyone else. I actually feel a little bit sorry for you, too. I have a feeling that in real life you are a rather lonely person.
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Yeah, some people posting in here are really pathetic, like this one here.....|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Lecture someone abiut being inflammatory and how you dont like them but turn around, out of the blue, and do the same? If those are your standards there, I'm glad I dotn have your standards you can keep them.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
It may make me seem like an asss to run around crushing people's hopes and dreams, but frankly it's necessary.
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Well, if you tend to presume that the universe we inhabit is all that reality was, is, and ever could be, that would necessarily be true.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
I would love to see the "proof" behind that, because any reality with God intrinsically requires that God not be the programmer of reality - unless God is somehow beyond reality, but that doesn't even make any sense.
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But if this universe and reality are two different things, it would be quite possible for this universe to have been programmed or initiated by an external entity.
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I'm thinking mostly of the people who have the "Whoever dies with the most toys wins" line of thinking. There is this subtle game being played where everyone is trying to have more than everyone else. Yes scientifically, this is typically explained as a leftover shard of primitive humans trying to appease potential mates. But it continues long after all virility is gone from the human body, and long after a person is perfectly satisfied with their relationship status. There seems to be a subconscious thought that somehow when the game is over, we're all going to gather somewhere, check the scoreboard, and stroke our egos.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Well, I'm not sure if the limited time frame is a deterrent for striving for anything applies to all people. Even outside me and my view, look, it's given now that the game is ending on Nov. 30th. yet people still are striving to get badges that they havent gotten yet, doing TFs they havent gotten around to or for some getting to level 50 knowing full well that it's ending. For some, it seems to increased the motivation now that time is short. Me, it's about the journey and all journeys msut come to and end. Some take years, decades, some a matter of minutes, and some end when the person is ready to get off, and some end rather abrupt and at any given time.
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| Not sure what Serenity is about though and what aspect of afterlife it touches on. It would be interesting with no belief in the afterlife but its not as abstract as it seems as some cultures even intoday's world do not believe in an afterlife and they get along fine it seems. It just seems alien to those that do believe in an afterlife. I seen how people reacted to that of their work being erased with a stroke of a pen. Yet, outside looking in, was it a bright idea to put their greatest heart and soul of work into something that could be gone wit ha stroke of a pen if that wasa worry and was not prepared for it? If it's worth that much I assume that they have that work locked away somewhere in a relatively safe place where it cannot go out the window with a stroke of a pen that they have no control over. And if not, why not? And who's folly was that truely was? |
I'm looking to CO as my CoH replacement. One of my requirements for "the next game" was super sidekicking. CO has that.
One of the others is going for LotRO. He has no interest in CO*. I still play WoW and don't want another level and gear segregated game, so I have little interest in (as a group) playing LotRO. Another has basically shown no interest in any MMOs.
We played CoH almost nightly but now that the unifying force of CoH is gone there's not one replacement that has an automatic consensus.
*CO does a very good job of driving off first timers, especially CoHers, with its crippled character creator as the first thing you experience followed by the dreadful tutorial with no travel power to suppress that goofy run animation and if there was something in the store you wanted to start with, tough luck, get someone to 10, then do what you wanted. My sales pitch of "it really sucks until you've got your first level 6 and it mostly stops sucking once you've got your first ten" wasn't effective. If I hadn't heard elsewhere that it did indeed have super sidekicking, I'd never have touched it again after my first exposure.
Next up is a game that I still play on and off like the above, it is one that I took a temporary vacation from this game. It is called Hellgate:Global, I took a vacation from this game while it was known as Hellgate:London. T3Fun has brought the game back to the US and it is still fun for me to play from time to time.
I have also played CO in the past, I was in the closed beta test for that game. In CO closed beta I did more PvP than I have in any game. The reason was because I was a tester and I wanted to see if you could level your character playing PvP just like the devs promised and yes you can do it. But when the game shipped they made sure that leveling in PvP would not be faster than PvE. I know they did that because they wanted the players to be playing the PvE portion of the game that they worked hard to create.
No telling at this point if I will ever go back with them though, it is entirely possible but not likely.
Of late I have been giving DCUO a try. Sure you do not have the costume customization that you have here in this game only three colors. But it makes up for it in the customization of the powers that you choose in your chosen power set, travel mode, and iconic powers.
At first glance I thought that the game would not turn out as good as it did for me. I like it for now. It will never truly replace this great game.
Also I will be very leery if NCsoft came to their senses and wanted to bring City of Heroes back to live again. I would not likely return to this game, due to three factors that are important to me.
One, is Paragon Studios the ones developing it?
Two, how many of the old team do they have working on it?
Three, if all of the team or most of the team is new to the game, how many Korean developers are on the team?
Now I know that the last line makes it look like I could be prejudice. But hear me out, I am not saying it because of prejudice. It is because I believe that NCsoft hates this game because it is a game that was originally developed by an American developer and they were just a publisher. An American team of developers that took over the development of this game. Made this game more successful than their own titles that they self published and had to close like Tabula Rasa.
btw on top of all of that what would keep them from doing the same thing all over again if they did bring City of Heroes back to life again.
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