NCSoft Declines More Interviews from Increasing Gaming Press Requests

Upon reviewing the current EULA for City of Heroes, the issue may be moot:

The EULA requires me to either assert I have no rights, or that to the extent that I have such rights to license those rights to them. It does not specifically ask me to transfer those rights, and that makes the EULA not an "instrument of conveyance." It does not explicitly state that by agreeing to the EULA I am consenting to have my rights transferred. So even if accepting the EULA counts as a "signature" for the purposes of Title 17, there's no transfer being requested.

Pretty much...maybe i'm still having problems with wording replies.

If anything, it prevents any transfer of NCSoft's rights over to the user when using their software more than trying to take away the user's rights but i suppose it could be viewed that way.

The case was won by a request for default judgement by the court when the defendant failed to appear within the deadline and was subsequently approved.

But there were several charges stated in the Blizzard complaint among which, the anti-piracy circumvention was one.

Count 1: Copyright infringement
Count 2: Contributory and Vicarious Copyright Infringement
Count 3: Violation of the Digital Millenium Copyright Act (DMCA)
Count 4: Breach of WoW EULA
Count 5: Breach of WoW Terms Of Use (TOU)
Count 6: Unfair competition under California Law
Count 7: Intentional Interference with Contractual Relations

I don't have a text version i can copy/paste so have to just type some portions relevant to your question. The whole thing is too wordy for me to type so just peruse the doc i linked.

The following looks to be their description of their copy protection system...which sounds like buying a serial code (box or others), activating an account and creating a player userid:

From page 9-10: Blizzard's Anti-Piracy Mechanism
This portion has reference to Scapegaming going around that anti-piracy system:

From page 13: Defendants' Unlawful Activities
There's more stuff about Scapegaming performing reverse engineering and such but i'm not going to type the whole thing hehe.

Actually, it was not and that does not. Account verification was mentioned as part of the process by which the *servers* validate that an authorized client is accessing them. However, the defendant was not accused of bypassing controls to WoW's servers. Blizzard's argument was that as part of the overall process access to copyright work in the client is protected by technological means to authenticate the validity of the client which the rogue servers essentially bypassed. A priori proof that the account authentication mechanism does not protect the protected works in the client is the obvious fact that any authentication information will allow the client to work if connected to a different server.

My assessment of the technological access and authentication controls within City of Heroes is that there is no such technology to assess.

By directing the WoW game client to the scapegaming servers, that bypasses the legitimate WoW account authentication servers, thereby circumventing their technological security measures.



From page 19-20 : Count III Violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"), 17 U.S.C. 1201(A) and (B)
That's what i'm getting from the docs...maybe point me to the portion that says it's something else. It's freaking long so maybe i zoned passed it. Happens more often than i would like unfortunately.

Not to mention some of us are trying to build a new boat to ride. No idea if its going to work. Hope it does. If not at least we can say we tried.

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

Couple of points of fact here: firstly CoH has been in steady decline for a number of years. There was no plateau of core players that kept it steady. However much this might surprise people businesses tend not to close down a healthy revenue stream without a really good reason. They didn't do it just to spite us.

Secondly I would imagine that when NCSoft took the decision to close the game down, the backlash of the players was probably in some respect actually taken in to consideration. Granted, perhaps not on the scale that SaveCoH has evolved into, but I can't believe for a moment that it's taken them by surprise. There was on this basis, probably a contingency to deal with such a thing.

Thirdly, 20,000 people signed the CoH petition. 2,000,000 copies of GW2 were bought within a very short time of its release. That right there is people voting with their wallet. If you think a few cross words on twitter or Facebook are going to sway the tide of the gaming majority then I'd strongly suggest visiting your optician and swapping out those rose tinted specs for a more standard variety.

It might be easy and simpleminded, but as Occams Razor states, "the simplest answer to even given problem is usually the correct one."

Once you and Captain Electric have wiped the backs of your hands, perhaps you both should remember this when you criticise people for having the audacity to have a view point that contradicts your own.

I may not agree with peoples viewpoints or I may question the basis on which they reach them, but I'm damn sure I'm not going to try and prevent people from a) having them and b) expressing them on a public forum.

So you have already bought what the company told you as to their reason for shutting down this game. Sorry but I do not buy that load of BS.

1. From a financial standpoint shutting down this game does not make any sense. Why, because this game has to be making money for them. Why would the devs be allowed to work on issue 24 for so long if NCsoft knew it would be shutting down this game. If the game was losing a lot of money players would've known it for a long time. The devs would've known as well. So the shutdown would not have been a surprise.

Next they decide to spend a lot of money in severance pay. They spend around 97 million buying Ntreev. Simply because they wanted a company that could make a successful casual MMO (more on this point later). Something they could not do themselves.

Add to it the fact that they are spending money not only marketing games like Blade and Soul in South Korea and eventually to other countries. But they are also spending money working on a new game called Wildstar which will be handled by Carbine Studios IIRC.

So they are throwing away a proven money maker for two unproven potential successful MMO's. That IMO is a bad business move.

Now they say that are doing it to cut cost of labor. Okay then I would agree with that if the cost of labor for developing an MMO in the US compared South Korea. But if it is not cheaper then it is even crazier to close a cheaper US company compared to a South Korean Company.

This game has went for over eight years. It survived the launch of WoW and went on to add many good features and everyone including myself has had a blast playing this game.

2. I forgot where I read this but there are some conspiracy theories and the one that seem to make the most sense out of them, but still I do not buy it.

That NCsoft is shutting down this game to drive the players to their other titles. News flash NCsoft, there are no doubt many players here that are already playing some of the other titles. When you take a player that is part of one community and through them out like yesterdays garbage and expect them to be loyal NCsoft fan and jump to the other games he is playing and be a hardcore player. NCsoft must be crazy if they think that.

Also how are they possibly going to get anyone here that is not already playing their other titles (except maybe Guild Wars 2) to even bother trying out their games.

Personally I wanted to try out other games like Aion, Guild Wars 2, Blade and Soul, and maybe even Wildstar. But now I would not touch those games due to the poor financial decisions that NCsoft has been making. Also I would not touch them because they treated this community like yesterday's garbage.

3. They say that they are sorry and have tried everything to keep the doors open. You and others might believe that load of BS. But I never will, they could've taken that Ntreev money and used it to keep the doors open for a good while longer. Also they could've decided to drop one of the titles that they are working on to keep the doors open.

4. They have said that they bought Ntreev because they wanted to have a company that has successful casual MMOs. Hello City of Heroes is a successful casual MMO. How much more casual can you get than this game.

It is real hard to gimp your character. The missions are real easy to do. You never fail a mission. Even if you are new to video games in general, in time you would learn from your mistakes. Even the end game is not tough at all. It does not take the greatest degree of skill to defeat the incarnate trials. As long as you have some incarnate powers and have them leveled up you can contribute. You never have to be optimal to make a contribution.

5. My take is that NCsoft does not like this game because it was not their baby, their brain child. No it was developed by an American Developer Cryptic Studios.

If I were Arenanet or Carbine I would be looking for a new publisher to become a subsidiary to that company. Because I believe that NCsoft would only keep Guild Wars 2 and maybe even allow Wildstar see the light of day. As long as they can make enough money to keep the doors open of their other games like Aion, Lineage 2 and Blade and Soul. Along with Ntreev games.

If any of NCsoft's personal titles show that they can stand on their own. Then NCsoft will shutdown Guild Wars 2 and Wildstar.

In closing have fun, until we meet again in a different game (currently Diablo 3 mostly). Or by some miracle someone actually saves this game. Have fun all.

And there's the money-shot.

Time was, I would have said that corporations, not unlike people usually make decisions in their own best interest. But in this instance, I no longer say that.

GW2 is making money. And so was CoX, but they killed that anyways. So IMO there's no promise they won't kill GW2 later on, after the new-shiny wears off. If it is making money who cares, we don't need no stinking filthy lucre. Its all about principle now, cash be damned.

Strikes me as literally crazy. I do not have confidence that NCSoft has the financial "wisdom" to function as a long-term entity; and to quote our most recent naysayer, I will have no problem sitting back and watching them burn for it when they finally chase off one playerbase too many.

I can tell you that if I were playing Aion right now, I would be very very afraid.

Why is it people assume stupidity or malice when the opposite is the most reasonable conclusion?

NCSoft is taking the funds they were spending on a disappointing performer and deciding to use them on a project or projects that have the potential for a higher rate of return. It's that simple.

We're not talking about a situation where Blizzard decided to shut down WoW because they got tired of printing money. CoX has been a disappointing performer for some time, and it has reached a point where the business has decided that it is no longer worth investing in. You may not like it, but that doesn't mean it's the wrong decision.

Is there a risk involved on their part? Sure, every business decision contains an element of risk. But they have already weighed the possibilities and consider it a sufficiently low risk to take, and time will tell if they're right.

IT's the only inside information we have. Other than that we have a bunch of rumors, speculations and etc. And with some of the speculated asking prices, they are low ball, and some "attempts at communication" seem more like they are saying "you better do this or else". So only true information we have is from them. Maybe it is BS maybe not but it's not anymore likely to be BS than all the rumors and speculation stuff from people who wasnt there, heard it third fourth to tenth hand, or just making stuff up to make NCSoft look bad or make the SaveCOH movement look bad. Do anyone have any hard evidence that it is all BS? And not what they chose to believe or not? Now prior to Aug 31st, anything from NCSoft would have been, and actually has been taken as the final word. I remember a while ago just even mentioning that a statement from them seemed fishy and boy did people come out the wood work saying that is must be true because it comes directly from them and how I am stupid for not believing it. I na way they was right what other evidence did I have? It came direct from the company or their representative. Now, what has changed? Because people are angry they wont believe anything they say anymore? And mind you, my comment was well after the Garret thing so that cant be it.
The way it seems it really dont matter what they would have said and if it wasnt something on the lines of "We are changing our minds and the game stays open." there will be people that take anything they say as BS. So naturally, they either goign to attempt to keep talking and adding fuel to the fire no matter what they say unless they give in the the demands or they are just going to be quiet so there can be no words to use against them. As I said, maybe it's all BS but really, that is as close to the truth we might be able to get from the most reputable source. Unless someone has more hard information, not heresay, first line knowledge that this isnt the case.




Of course it dont make sense. All the details have not been released that went into that decision. Plus the way it's going even if they did release that information, many will still call it BS anyways so what would be the point again?
Yea though with the little information we have, it would seem the dev notice was short, and there should have been no point in even working on issue 24. Maybe they was afraid that word would leak out prior to the time they wanted it to leak out or maybe it was one of those decisions made one week prior to the announcement or maybe around Aug 31st or a few days prior was the deadline to see something they want and or the game will be closed or hell it could be that someone was suppose to tell them to stop working on i24 a long time ago but they forgot and since they started working on it, they just allowed them to continue. Or it could have been Aug 30th they met, voted and decision was made Aug 31st announcement was made. Who knows.

Money in corporation world is everywhere. Do you pick up every penny that you come across or even drop? Maybe you do maybe you dont. I dont even bother because it is not worth it to me. I dont even take pennies from change when I purchase stuff. If it's less than 5, then it's guranteed that I'm going to leave it right there on the counter, 5-10 cents probably will go into the charity bin they usually have sitting on the counter but either way pennies are trash food in my eyes. Could it been money I didnt have? Sure. Do I find it not worth the hassle? Sure. Would someone else gather every penny they see? Probably, well actually I know a few. Under a different company the money that COX was raking in probably would have been plenty but for NCSOft it wasnt enough for them and decided to do something else with it. 2 million sound like a lot to many people but in the scale of long term and working with 100s of million or more, 2 million isnt nothing.





That is the thing though. I dont think they are closing the game to save money or because they are hurting for money. But throwing away a proven money maker happens all the time in the buisness world from the car industry, well actually they are notorious for that and do so just because the "platform is old and want to go bolder newer, "better". Sometimes it work sometimes it dont. The way it seems is that they still have some games raking in money, more money than COX ever brought in, worldwide. And if the NCSoft is really going in the direction people say that they are going in on the SaveCOH side, to Asian, grind fest, with "certain" type of target audience and animation, then from the lineup and up coming line up, COX is the odd ball. And then what they said isnt total crap after all because as they said, COX just dont fit in with the line up anymore and looking at the line up and up coming line up, it really dont.

Then why couldnt they just sell off the stuff since it is how they aquired it in the first place? Probably because it was still making money and when they get their money out of it, it may be more than the relatively measely amount it was pulling in and that was on the decline, slowly but surely, and at the same time, cleaned up the line product line.


Now this is very true it seems. In hindsight, maybe we should have invited the NCSOft big wigs to play with us every so often. Yet in the world of buisness, COX is just another product just like a piece of wood, or a drink, or food product, or stero equipment. Maybe they dont know, didnt know, didnt care, about the community that was behind the game. I guess they figured that surviving against WoW was nothing, it's like not not dropping out of school because of the genius in the class and trying to celebrate. It is expected to survive but it probably was aimed to be the WoW of the hero market and raking in 10s to hundred millions since it was the only game like it out there. It may have been how they pitched buying this game to the stockholders and after 8 years it may not have lived up to their hype. For all we know it may of been the stockholders that causes a fuss that said kill COX or else we are leaving in mass numbers to show you. And maybe they didnt budge at first until they seen their pre-release financial reports and suddenly realize that their prices are dropping and decided to kill the game to see if they could stop it. Who knows unless they tell us the reason and they might have already told us the reason and it is considered BS. I dont think the community as a whole is even ready to listen to anything they have to say unless it's what they want to hear which may not be anything near the truth that they think it is. NCSoft could say right now that they feel out pain and are deeply sorry and people will use it to add more fuel to the fire. They could say, well too bad, ad still more fuel to fire. So really. Why should they even say anything at all if either way wont help not a single bit? Plus besides words from them? Is there any other reliable unbiased inside source out there that can clear this stuff up? I dont fully believe it but compared to everything else coming from the angry mob, NCSoft word seems more reliable and makes more sense to me. keyword there, TO ME.




Well while COX was casual compared to WoW, compared to other games it wasnt THAT casual. It had more than it fair share of grind moments, especially after 50. And of course the IO stuff, the market thing, the Incarnate stuff, it started to get away from casual around that point and more towards WoW way of doing things. At the current way it is, COX was not exactly casual but not yet a complete grindfest. Somewhere in the middle, I would call it a casual grind fest. And successful may be relative in their eyes. What was the current population about 50,000 with a peak of 150,000? Yeah could be considered successful because of the good reviews this game got in 2004-2006 time period, it wasnt operating in the red and that could be success to one company. On the other hand if a product or person dont meet the set goals, if profits slip instead of improve, if th decline looks like it will continue then that product is usually taken from the market and or the person is fired. Maybe it had nothing to do with COX but Paragon Studios as a whole.


It is real hard to gimp your character. The missions are real easy to do. You never fail a mission. Even if you are new to video games in general, in time you would learn from your mistakes. Even the end game is not tough at all. It does not take the greatest degree of skill to defeat the incarnate trials. As long as you have some incarnate powers and have them leveled up you can contribute. You never have to be optimal to make a contribution.


In buisness sometimes those are the first ones to go so that may be valid right there. Just like some people never got why Chrysler in the 90s decided to sell Lamborghini again after aquiring it instead of killing off or selling off plymouth which was starting to run in the red and seemed like a pointless brand. Well Plymouth was an American company and Lambo was Italian. Imaging the backlash then. Could be the same deal. Suppose they was an American company and Paragon Studios was Korean. And they posted to us American gamers that "Sorry guys, we have to close you down because we wanted to close the Korean one down but we dont want them to be angry with us." Imagine th backlash from us anyways if not even more. An American company closes American sub. in favor of foriegn interest. Now to NCSoft American is the overseas interest. I dont think many Americans are used to that notion yet. We think nothing and feel nothing for when our domestic companies close overseas branches and no one think, "Dang all those jobs lost. Lets rally and get them to over turn that decision." It's more, "Well what did they expect? They are an overseas part of the equation and of course they will and should cut that off before causing American jobs to be lost." It's just this time, we Americans, small group as it is that lost their jobs, just happen to be on the buisness end of that logic that we didnt mind for decades now, well, as long as it happened to someone else it seems.


Yeah, it was 8 years of fun (or a tad less for me I think. I6 I started).

If we could live forever would we cherish life? Now that we know that any game can end, remember whether it's this game, another game, or COH2 or it's spirit successor of the future, remember to cherish it this time. Get as many people to join as possible, spend as uch as you can,support the game and try to not run new players off just for the sake of keeping the community small and tight knit. If the company dont advertise then do it for them with as much vigor as these people are getting the word about the closing. But dont let this incident put ya off from MMOs as it's just a life cycle, just be aware and never put everything into it. Just only what you are willing to risk and walk away from.




Well now on to the original quote you used. Now that quote was more about the way the article was written and the way it came off as saying "We at SaveCOH have judged NCSoft to be guilty of killing a community and other crimes and atrocities against the people and sentence you to feel the wrath. Before your sentence is carried out, any last words?" then an actual reporter looking genuinely for both sides of the story. It's like an obvious trap and should have been ignored by NCSoft. Many people that support that article know good and well that no matter what NCSOft says, unless its "We are reversing our position and COX will stay open even if it drags this company down and lose everyone a lot of money." then it will be considered BS. They could state the real reason and it probabvly wont be believe. Even the little bit they have given use makes more sense than many theories and speculation out there, and even some of those opposing speculations have given more clarity to what NCSOft said. MAny said that they are killing COX to replace it with grind fest and Asian oriented games and WoW clones. Well, NCSoft said they are killing COX because it no longer fits with the rest of the line and they need to streamline the product line. And from the product line now, COX is the odd ball. But if someone out there have actual hard inside know exatly what's going on facts, then maybe they should speak up if they can. Just because a rumor is what people want to hear doesnt mean it's is true and the truth (not saying NCSOft is telling the truth) is BS because it is not what they want to hear.

Also what is odd to me is that people are saying "NCSoft can be trusted because of the Garrett thing" and other old reasons. Yet, they flocked and from what they state, gave NCSoft alot of their money, alot of their emotions, alot of their time, yet NCSoft was not a company to be trusted? Seems like regardless of the Garrett thing, they trusted them enough to hang around 6-8 years and spendign money on them religiously month ot month or some even up to a year long subs, that is until what happened to Tab. players happened to them. Prior to Aug. 31st, said anythign bad about NCSoft and even brought up the Garrett insidence you was labeled a troll, because then even to the same ones that are downing NCSOft at every post, NCSoft was an upstanding company that could be trusted even with the Garrett incident and them killing off 5 games in the past. No no, no one called them MMO killer. Now that it is in the backyard, all of a sudden they are everything including satan incarnate as if this was their first MMO killed. And of course there is always a "logical" reason to kill off any game but COX. Yea? We are feeling what those other communities felt and turned a blind eye to when NCSoft was giving them the axe. Yet, we expect the entire gaming community to rush to our aid because there is no game that is suppose to be immune to being killed off besides COX. COX was just game, albeit a pretty unique one, yet just a game like anything else. If it didnt perform to expectations, then it was at risk of being killed off, especially the older it got. Under another company would COX still be going on? Possible. But it's also possible that COX would have been killed off alot sooner than now. Depends on the company and their plans for the future of the product. I can name many products (non-games) that have been killed off while less inferior and under performing products continued on. It's buisness. Some returned to the market but many didnt. Some was making alt of money, if they were made by a small company, and some just was killed because it was old. But I dont think in any of the cases, the rights, recipes, trademarks and etc was sold to another company. Has GM sold the rights to Oldmobile yet? I dont see many people pressuring them too or expecting them too besides the pissed off Olds fans that want GM to bring the brand back and kill Buick instead or just sell to a private party so it can be it's own company again like in the early 1900s and a few years prior. Yet, dont seem ike buisness people are questioning why GM is holding on to the IP equivalent of Oldsmobile and not selling. In fact, not even on here. Probably because no one cares, it's not in their lane. And that goes into another thread that is in short, outside this game, who really cares over all that COX is being killed off like any other game?

It's propbably not caring as long as it dont affect COX is a mindset that cost saveCOH movement alot of support outside this game. If they was on the front lines when other games was going out, they would have been remembered as heroes and probably would been a mass migration to the cause because they helped them out in the past and they are returning the favor and they would have been viewed as the motto say. We are heroes, this is what we do. It more seems like it is We are heroes to things that only affect us personally, this is what we do. Now it's just viewed by NCSoft it seems as the usual angry set, up to 21,000 according to the petition and if that is even half of the population then this population was really on the decline and yea it was ripe for shutdown. If te population was really significant then 21,000 and many being double and or triple signed and people not players of this game, then that is one paltry number.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

Especially in today's climate, declining people wanting to throw cash at you is just plain damned stupid.

I could have understood "we're not interested in developing CoX anymore, so here's what we'll do: we're consolidating down to five [or however many] servers, and all new development will cease. However we're still allowing those interested to continue playing a game they love."

What we're getting is the equivalent of the Joker setting fire to a pile of gasoline-soaked cash, just because they want to watch an MMO world burn.

I think - and hope - MMO gamers everywhere are watching this situation and realizing that us today, them tomorrow. And I would not bet even five dollars on Aion or Lineage 2 being open a year down the road. Slash and burn, baby. Slash and burn.

I call that "malice."

Point is when Lineage 2 went free to play there was a flood of players. When CoH went free to play the flood was on the DCUO servers that went free to play about the same time. This is something the weight much on the scale when you have to decide if you have to close down a game

Yeah, if their only market was the American market.
Unfortunately and fortunately, depends on what side of issue/water a person is on, grind games are very popular in Asia, a huge portion of the MMO base.

Pvp may be niche, but look at the large popuation drop that happened here in this game, when the focus of PvP went to the casual gamer. I thought it was a good idea to do but after those changes, PvP here basically went 6 feet under or at least in a brain dead coma. NCsoft probably seen what happened then and even if they reversed all those changes, the players were already gone and probably not coming back.

As people have been saying with super hero MMOs before and after the announcement, it is a niche market. COX peaked at about 150,000 players, and DCUO and CO is said to have peaked at even less numbers, but those two are a little younger and even COX didnt reach it's peak immediately, which is probably a good thing or else that would have mean the population been declining since reception with no chance of going back up. I think since it did take a bit for COX to even reach peak, that means that it might have been able to reach near those numbers again. Yet, the question is how to get it there and that is what NCSoft did not have the answer to and thought this game wouldnt rise in population even with all the updates thrown at it.

I think NCSoft is banking on GW2 more than anything with Lineage and Aion as a follow up. Depending on what exactly those expectations were and are, it may have been less expectations than what was expected with COX. Even if COX outperformed Aion for example, Aion may still be within it's expectation limits while COX not so much, especially given the lack of competition in the COX realm compared to the tons of games that are made and or have been made in the same vein as Aion and Lineage. COX hd basically an open market with not many serious competitors while the competition is stiff for Aion, GW2, Lineage and the likes. They may have figured that if COX performed under their expectations which may have or may not been very high, then what would happen when or if competition did happen? For all we know, NCSoft may have believed that COX was supposed to be the massive million player super hero MMO in the states, since we love our super heroes and casual play. When it did not perform to that level, that shut it off to focus on what they do know and MMO types that they do know. All of this is maybe. Many people have said and have been saying that NCSoft have no idea what the American game market wants so it would be understandable to cut back on that front to focus on what they do know especially in the gaming market that is believed by some to be on the decline.

Plus it didnt seem that F2p had much of a growth spurt as they probably would believe it would have and that may have been the final straw where they just gave up.

Originally Posted by mauk2 Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words. "Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L!

I only have a minor quibble with the statement I highlighted.
There is a difference between less armor and less clothing. I have many characters on CoH that are unarmored, but are fully clothed. Blade & Soul is not so much "less armor" as it is "less clothing" or, to put it more succinctly, "more bare skin".

Yes, I know. Its a technical quibble. But, I just wanted to point that out.

Oh I don't disagree with that thinking, and like Lineage 1, I can see those titles being shut down in the US/EU market in the next couple of years.

But unfortunately, due to how the financials are sorted, I cannot see what the split between the EU/US market and Asian market is in terms of how much money they are bringing in, and as to how large of an effect it would have on their financials.

I *cannot* see those titles being closed down worldwide if they stay at their current financial levels though. They are bringing in the bulk of Ncsoft's monies. Lineage 2 is more likely to be closed down before Lineage (which so far has brought in almost 18 times as much money as City of Heroes).

Guild Wars 2 is likely to bring in a fair amount of change as well.

Side note: In the 1st half of 2012, Lineage was their big money maker. Not Lineage 2, nor Aion (although to be fair, Aion was only 10% behind Lineage).

Originally Posted by Paladiamors I love you, I Burnt the Toast!

A lot of that, Lineage I being a big revenue source, was due to their introduction of an cash shop in Lineage I back in mid 2009. It reinvigorated Lineage I revenues (up 60% from 2008 in 2010) which were flat or declining before. It was that and Aion's success which drove NCSoft stock up over 400% from end of 2008 to end of 2010, which is about where their stock is today.