Suppose an emulator shows up, How many of you would go on?
By
8_Ball,
Posted on: 2012-10-11 17:34 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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So will they just plan on ignoring the C&D order if it happens? Will it be a case of the Resistance (Players dedicated to run an emulator regardless of the legalities and etc and stolen IP all for the common enjoyment of themselves and players like them) vs Emperor Cole (NCSoft)?
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Originally Posted by Captain-Electric
Don't count on it.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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There are quite a few areas for server hosting where C&Ds get the "lol no u" response |
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
So will they just plan on ignoring the C&D order if it happens? Will it be a case of the Resistance (Players dedicated to run an emulator regardless of the legalities and etc and stolen IP all for the common enjoyment of themselves and players like them) vs Emperor Cole (NCSoft)?
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@Golden Girl
City of Heroes comics and artwork
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is that where you all are planning on taking this?|
Originally Posted by Golden Girl
There are quite a few areas for server hosting where C&Ds get the "lol no u" response
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What areas are these areas?
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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No, more like The Matrix and Zion...|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
So will they just plan on ignoring the C&D order if it happens? Will it be a case of the Resistance (Players dedicated to run an emulator regardless of the legalities and etc and stolen IP all for the common enjoyment of themselves and players like them) vs Emperor Cole (NCSoft)?
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Exceedingly efficient they may be, but every Architect has his Neo, just as every Napoleon has his Waterloo
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ah my favorite scene in that movie.
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Originally Posted by Turjan
No, more like The Matrix and Zion...
Exceedingly efficient they may be, but every Architect has his Neo, just as every Napoleon has his Waterloo |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
I think she means places like Russia.
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That's pedantic and irrelevant.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Sometimes hackers are domestic and not part of large organizations...
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Like people used to drive by speed boost and regardless of the protests and messages and PMs, they continued to do it just because they can. Until the devs killed their fun with Null the Gull.
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About as irrelevant as someone saying the chances of theis game being shutdown was a 75% chance back in July. Yet most people would have said no way in hell, or at most slim to none. Yet, here we are on the way there. Even if there is a slim chance or rarely happens, such as someone entering a club and shooting anything that moves, or someone goign to work and bowing people up are slim chances, yet it happens. AT many establishments, there are policies in place to prevent that, thus the pat down at many clubs. Do crap still happen? Sure. But think of the outrage if you learned your loved on got shot because someone refused to check people at the door because they felt that "oh it rarely happens, no point in checking people." |
Originally Posted by Positivity
I think she means places like Russia.
That's pedantic and irrelevant. Oh. You're one of those people that think that all of us Kins are trying to troll you. No wonder you're so negative! |
And no I didnt say all Kins. And it probably have less to to do with the fact they are a kin and more with the type of person that just so happen to play that particular kin and just so happen to have a power or buff that is more love it or hate it and had to power to place that power on anyone they pleased, just because they can, and nothing anyone could do to stop it...until of course the change occured.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Another CoH emulator would be nice. Emulators are neat. People do amazing things with emulators.
Got to love the old Infocom adventure games. Rather than making separate versions for all the different computers that were on the market in the 1980's they instead made emulators for a theoretical computer called the Z-Machine, and then programmed their games for just that one. That way they could easily release their games across all computers without much hassle.
@Nanas (on Defiant)
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I believe Argentina was mooted.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
What areas are these areas?
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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None of which I ever claimed was not possible.|
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Mind you I know that if a hacker is good enough and want ot hack there isnt much to stop them just as if someone wants to steal a car, they will or if someone wants to rob a house, they will but that doesnt mean people leave their doors unlocked and or dont purchase an alarm system.
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If the emulator isn't abandonware by its creators or some community of coders, even if it's only a few, things like that will eventually be addressed. Yeah, if they aren't eventually addressed, even the emulated game will die. But I read the complaint up-thread as saying that the very existence of these things will ruin the emulated game such that it would die a second death. I think the extreme longevity of things like emulators for UO (which actually have a variety of different "forks") show that this is not some forgone conclusion, which is very much how it was presented above.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
L2 emulators are everywhere lol.
I would be up for a theoretical emulator of CoX.
I just hope if an emulator ever comes out, its based on I24.
That was the issue of my dreams, my wishlist fullfilled... Never saw the light becouse of those NCSoft morons.
If NCsoft were as gung-ho about shutting down emulators as people suggest, Infinite Aion would have disappeared years ago.
Me, I'd play an emulator. I like the game enough to keep playing it even with no real continual development. There was a lot I still had left to do.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I24 or bust. I mean, why not? Even the issue title is perfect for it.
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That's because the Lineage 2 source code leaked. Seems to happen a lot with Korean MMOs. I wonder why. Emulators based on leaked code are definitely on the wrong side of the law, even if they account for about half of the ones out there.|
Originally Posted by Gemini_2099
L2 emulators are everywhere lol.
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From scratch, though? Hell yeah, you better believe it. You can't claim IP rights on a network protocol. If I write a server that says, "You're in zone #1, at these coordinates," NCsoft doesn't own that. It's the same thing as Samba emulating a Windows file server, and other than some patent trolling nobody has tried to argue that's illegal. Interoperability is protected under the DMCA.
The client is what turns "Zone #1" into "Okay, I'll display Atlas Park". Server programmers don't have to worry about that. Bittorrenting the client if you don't already have it would probably be a violation.
It's the content that could get you in trouble. All those missions. If someone develops one, I hope they're smart enough to keep the code separate from anything that might be considered IP. That way the programmers would be in the clear and entirely new content could be created with the engine, even if there would probably be a 'pirate' content pack floating around as well.
At any rate, I'm surprised this thread didn't get deleted Friday. I don't expect it to last much longer. Whether it's legal or not, NCsoft doesn't want you to play a COH emulator, and they'll try to scare you away from it. They want you to pay them more money for B&S instead.
Don't believe the hype. For them to send a C&D, they have to have someone to send it to, and something to tell them to desist doing. I doubt anyone writing one is dumb enough to give them a visible target. I also know our community has a few people with lawyers and deep pockets who are itching to go head to head. By bringing legal action, NCsoft takes a risk that a judge might say, "You're not using this IP, you have no claim on it. GTFO." and that precedent sticking for a long time.
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Google "infinite Rasa"
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If NCsoft were as gung-ho about shutting down emulators as people suggest, Infinite Aion would have disappeared years ago.
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Now, I don't know if this is ironic... |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
If NCsoft were as gung-ho about shutting down emulators as people suggest, Infinite Aion would have disappeared years ago.
Me, I'd play an emulator. I like the game enough to keep playing it even with no real continual development. There was a lot I still had left to do. |
But on the inifite Aion forums, they are saying that the server is closing down.
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I think the Tabula Rasa issue is slightly different though.|
Originally Posted by Alannon
Google "infinite Rasa"
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The history of Tabula Rasa right from CEO Kim forking over a boatload of cash in hand to get the Garriott brothers onboard...the complete 180 on game design after the initial unicorns and spells style the game was to have...the i-n-c-r-e-d-i-b-l-y long development time (and hence cost) of the revised sci-fi version of Tabula Rasa...and then the whole business with the Texas court case NCSoft lost against Richard Garriott...
I think it's safe to say that there was a fair amount of bad blood by the time Tabula Rasa was closed, so it's easy to understand NCSoft aggressively hunting down TR emulators. They wanted that product dead, dead, DEAD!
Whether they'd be as driven when it comes to the niche gaming anomaly that is CoH though...who can say?
Back when COXEmu was first released (before it was shut down), there wasn't a Marketplace aspect to the game. Just SO's and Inspirations, which were effectively unlimited from vendors. I'm pretty sure emulators will totally bork the marketplace model, if it can exist at all. And without market economics in place, IO'ing out your character is going to be tough unless (wait for it) someone jerk-hacks the marketplace code to address this.
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Yeah, honestly, once a game is shut down, I couldn't give a flying rat's @#$ about the "legality" of an emulated server. It's no longer taking revenue from the creators, who cares if it's "legal"?
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Originally Posted by 8_Ball
This, not really concerned about the legal aspect of it, would depend more on how good of an emulation it was and how stable etc...
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Virtue Server
Avatar art by Daggerpoint
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You're pretty sure based on what empirical evidence exactly? The same pessimistic doom & gloom you've been spewing for this entire thread?
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Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Back when COXEmu was first released (before it was shut down), there wasn't a Marketplace aspect to the game. Just SO's and Inspirations, which were effectively unlimited from vendors. I'm pretty sure emulators will totally bork the marketplace model, if it can exist at all. And without market economics in place, IO'ing out your character is going to be tough unless (wait for it) someone jerk-hacks the marketplace code to address this.
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Eh. I'm honestly not worried about it. You seem to be assuming that an emulated CoH will try to emulate every aspect of the game as it exists now. Honestly, I think that would be a mistake, and the market is an excellent example of a feature I think would not work well in an emulated game, before any consideration of exploits.|
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Back when COXEmu was first released (before it was shut down), there wasn't a Marketplace aspect to the game. Just SO's and Inspirations, which were effectively unlimited from vendors. I'm pretty sure emulators will totally bork the marketplace model, if it can exist at all. And without market economics in place, IO'ing out your character is going to be tough unless (wait for it) someone jerk-hacks the marketplace code to address this.
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The current in-game market depends heavily on network effects - everyone across all shards shares common listing and sales, to improve both supply and demand. That's not going to be possible in any but the most amazingly successful visions of an emulated game.
CoH was never very loot centric. An emulated game could make IOs more available via non-market means like Reward Merits and not really break the game that much more than it was already "broken" on the live servers. (And I'm not complaining about that brokenness - I love having my characters like that, and all of the ones I really care about are.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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Of all the possible reasons why a hypothetical server-side emulator would not work, some of which are genuine challenges, this has to be one of the strangest, if not ludicrous, ones I've heard. If people could figure out how to equip villains on the red side prior to the market merge, this is an effectively impossible problem to create even deliberately, much less accidentally. |
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Back when COXEmu was first released (before it was shut down), there wasn't a Marketplace aspect to the game. Just SO's and Inspirations, which were effectively unlimited from vendors. I'm pretty sure emulators will totally bork the marketplace model, if it can exist at all. And without market economics in place, IO'ing out your character is going to be tough unless (wait for it) someone jerk-hacks the marketplace code to address this.
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And it can be made completely moot by simply switching focus from the market metagame to the content-driven merit systems. The market was always an optional system in City of Heroes moreso than a core system, and it was always well within the ability of the developers to make everything players could want accessible through the in-game rewards systems. To put it bluntly, ignoring the social elements of the game, City of Heroes could have functioned perfectly well with limited reward system modifications as a single player game. There is no system that requires participation by more than one player that is actually essential to the core gameplay beyond the obvious desire to allow for multiplayer teaming itself literally.
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QR: Just wondering, but what the maximum number of reward merits you can get ingame, by running everything just *once*.
side switching is allowable for so you can get all story arcs. Assume you are at the correct level for everything (so you will not outlevel contacts)
*edit* I think i broke my finger working it all out.
According to Paraogn wiki, doing *everything* just once (all the Gm's once, every story arc just once), all the task forces... 3566 Reward merits.
I believe that is enough to slot out one character (although not purple out), because those are not available via Reward Merits.
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You are correct in regard to lack of participants will reduce any market to rubble. You are wrong about building your characters. The emulator can have its drop and conversion tables easily adjusted to compensate. It's not a very good fix but it is doable.|
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Back when COXEmu was first released (before it was shut down), there wasn't a Marketplace aspect to the game. Just SO's and Inspirations, which were effectively unlimited from vendors. I'm pretty sure emulators will totally bork the marketplace model, if it can exist at all. And without market economics in place, IO'ing out your character is going to be tough unless (wait for it) someone jerk-hacks the marketplace code to address this.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Of all the possible reasons why a hypothetical server-side emulator would not work, some of which are genuine challenges, this has to be one of the strangest, if not ludicrous, ones I've heard. If people could figure out how to equip villains on the red side prior to the market merge, this is an effectively impossible problem to create even deliberately, much less accidentally.
And it can be made completely moot by simply switching focus from the market metagame to the content-driven merit systems. The market was always an optional system in City of Heroes moreso than a core system, and it was always well within the ability of the developers to make everything players could want accessible through the in-game rewards systems. To put it bluntly, ignoring the social elements of the game, City of Heroes could have functioned perfectly well with limited reward system modifications as a single player game. There is no system that requires participation by more than one player that is actually essential to the core gameplay beyond the obvious desire to allow for multiplayer teaming itself literally. |
The market was an important part of the game and while it may not be a core system for you it was for many of us. While I personally think the worst decisions the devs made about the game were market related ,Not merging the markets until I18, making merits, hero merits, tickets all character bound, not providing better search tools, not making remote auction much easier to obtain, were all horrible. None of them compare to writing off an entire section of the game and the community.
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