Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.

RoleplayerX · 10-08-2012 04:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Klaw_

IO's only matter in the late game and you don't even need them to build a decent toon.

I keep seeing people say this and I think it's bull. I don't like the invention system and tried to play without it for months after it came out. I eventually gave up because I wasn't able to keep pace with teammates. Characters that were great before the invention system were suddenly dying left and right.

SpyralPegacyon · 10-08-2012 06:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tenzhi

I find the specializations and such in ChO easier to deal with than IOs and set bonuses - both because I don't have to buy equipment to implement them and because as a tabletop RPG player they seem more natural to me.

Yeah, it took me a bit of reading the wiki and forums and playing with character builders like CO-Forge to get a better idea of where I wanted to go. Also wound up spending something like 60 gold on a couple rebuilds of my Munitions fairy. Totally worth it, though, she's an amazing spawn cleaner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Another_Fan

I heard they put in diminishing returns without documenting it.

Archetypes get an undocumented damage boost over freeforms to presumably compensate for their limited builds. There's still some player testing being done to see just how much of a boost it is. Given that Cryptic is currently in a Fix All The Things mode, this might not be permanent.

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Bill Z Bubba · 10-08-2012 06:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoleplayerX

I keep seeing people say this and I think it's bull. I don't like the invention system and tried to play without it for months after it came out. I eventually gave up because I wasn't able to keep pace with teammates. Characters that were great before the invention system were suddenly dying left and right.

That's only because those using inventions pumped up their difficulty settings.

Once upon a time the max difficulty was, what, +2/x1? Now we can punch it to +4/x8. The game itself, if running at +1/x1 blue side, is the same as it ever was. Red side can be a bit rougher and gold side was designed to be even rougher.

But in any zone, you can still level from 1 to 50 using actual content without ever touching inventions. Edit: Ignoring incarnate content. All of that was geared around cranked up builds.)

Except for my main, I generally only use the one-offs early on (procs like the chance for +end, numina +regen/+recovery, etc) and basic IOs after 30.

But yes, if you want to run around at cranked up difficulty, you're going to need help and you can get a lot of help from inventions.

Be well, people of CoH.

JKCarrier · 10-08-2012 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy

For me, the problem is how much stuff there is. I mean, we have.. What? Super stats? Other super stats? Characteristics? Skills? Advantages? Gear? Mods? Specializations? Second specializations? Making sense of character building in CO is just, like I said earlier, a very convoluted process.

Yeah, this is my biggest gripe. Every time a piece of gear drops, I'm like "Well, this gizmo gives me certain stat bonuses, but if I equip it, I'll lose some of the bonuses to other stats that the other gadget gave me. Is the trade-off worth it? Darned if I know." I'm sure the min-maxers love it, but for me it's way too much number-crunching.

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Bad_Influence · 10-08-2012 10:47 AM

..... Just got my test character out of the tutorial - which in CO, is a first for me you can believe, I was doing good to get out of there, as you are given almost no direction! And Sapphire is bugged to hell and back again.... and I'm SLOWLY flying here and there out in the actual City, looking at stuff when someone posts in Broadcast:

"OMGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG GGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG! !!!! HOW DO YOU PEOPLE STAND THIS GAME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

....to general zone hilarity.

CO: a sharp stick.

CoX: a phased plasma pulse-rifle.

And there you have it. My general response to CO is "UGH!" but CO is the only game in town, so I will try to make it work. Having to use the same face as everyone else makes me a sad panda, and thier costume creator SUCKS. Plus, there's almost nothing in it.... but when life gives you lemons and all that.

When life gives you lemons, you got a LEMON and that lemon is called Champions Online. *sigh* Somebody, save us from all this! We need a new game comparable to CoX!

IndyStruck · 10-08-2012 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BellaStrega

You don't?

Check out Serpent Lantern or Resistance. Both gave me that feeling.

Yeaaah, Resistance just gave me a feel for the support button and asking globals only to figure out it's broken. :/

SteelDominator · 10-08-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

yeah.

Global@SteelDominator

Twisted Toon · 10-08-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CyberGlitch

As bad as CO is, it was written by Cryptic, the same team that developed COH. Which just proves how hopeless a "spiritual successor" to this game would be, particularly if written by a bunch of amateur freelancers.

Actually, most of the really great stuff that's happened in the last (what, 5 years?) was not done by Cryptic's "professional" programmers. In fact, the Paragon Studios' Programmers bypassed a lot of the Cryptic's programmer's code in order to do stuff that Cryptic was unable to do.

My personal opinion is that the Cryptic programmers are the amateurs, and the PS programmers are the professionals.

There I was between a rock and a hard place. Then I thought, "What am I doing on this side of the rock?"

Scythus · 10-08-2012 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

And there you have it. My general response to CO is "UGH!" but CO is the only game in town, so I will try to make it work. Having to use the same face as everyone else makes me a sad panda, and thier costume creator SUCKS. Plus, there's almost nothing in it.... but when life gives you lemons and all that.

Actually their costume creator looks quite impressive. The problem is, apparently, for new players, most of it is actually GATED behind level 10.

I kid you not.

B_L_Angel · 10-08-2012 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scythus

Actually their costume creator looks quite impressive. The problem is, apparently, for new players, most of it is actually GATED behind level 10.

I kid you not.

Well that explains why I couldn't find it.

Bad_Influence · 10-08-2012 11:32 AM

I hear you haveto get to level 10 for that stuff, true enough so Test will get to level ten and then I'll delete and re-roll.

if I GET to level ten. Despite my best efforts, I die and die and die and die and die and die yet again. Attempting to block seems to do nothing whatever, and every time I die my opponent regens to full health. Not to mention my endurance bar regens to only just over half full, even just standing around much less fighting - and I have no idea how to fix this. I just dont have the sheer endurance to take on bosses just now. 5 hits and I am out of blue bar and dead.

Discouraging so far.

Evil_Legacy · 10-08-2012 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Twisted Toon

Actually, most of the really great stuff that's happened in the last (what, 5 years?) was not done by Cryptic's "professional" programmers. In fact, the Paragon Studios' Programmers bypassed a lot of the Cryptic's programmer's code in order to do stuff that Cryptic was unable to do.

My personal opinion is that the Cryptic programmers are the amateurs, and the PS programmers are the professionals.

And that really makes me wonder how this new game that is in the works is going to turn out. The PS people seemed to know and or had the knowledge to do some pretty amazing stuff in this game that may or may not be able to be easily replicated. I think the new replacement game will turn out ok but being recognizable as the new COX is something that may not be able to be seen until the new game is done or near completion.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

Bill Z Bubba · 10-08-2012 11:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

And that really makes me wonder how this new game that is in the works is going to turn out. The PS people seemed to know and or had the knowledge to do some pretty amazing stuff in this game that may or may not be able to be easily replicated. I think the new replacement game will turn out ok but being recognizable as the new COX is something that may not be able to be seen until the new game is done or near completion.

Don't you mean how the new game WAS going to turn out? The one that doesn't exist anymore because it was first shot down by NCSoft and then fully killed when all the devs were laid off?

Unless you're talking about what Titan network is talking about.

Be well, people of CoH.

Evil_Legacy · 10-08-2012 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

I hear you haveto get to level 10 for that stuff, true enough so Test will get to level ten and then I'll delete and re-roll.

if I GET to level ten. Despite my best efforts, I die and die and die and die and die and die yet again. Attempting to block seems to do nothing whatever, and every time I die my opponent regens to full health.

Discouraging so far.

What kind of things are you going against? Yea I found that blocking isnt much of a life saver but good for decreasing the damage of the charge up powers many of the Villain and up mobs do.

I personally never had a problem with death but not to say it is not an issue for some.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

Evil_Legacy · 10-08-2012 11:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

Don't you mean how the new game WAS going to turn out? The one that doesn't exist anymore because it was first shot down by NCSoft and then fully killed when all the devs were laid off?

Unless you're talking about what Titan network is talking about.

Titan Network.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

Brillig · 10-08-2012 12:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

Not to mention my endurance bar regens to only just over half full, even just standing around much less fighting - and I have no idea how to fix this. I just dont have the sheer endurance to take on bosses just now. 5 hits and I am out of blue bar and dead.

Use your energy builder.

Nethergoat · 10-08-2012 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

I hear you haveto get to level 10 for that stuff, true enough so Test will get to level ten and then I'll delete and re-roll.

if I GET to level ten. Despite my best efforts, I die and die and die and die and die and die yet again. Attempting to block seems to do nothing whatever, and every time I die my opponent regens to full health. Not to mention my endurance bar regens to only just over half full, even just standing around much less fighting - and I have no idea how to fix this. I just dont have the sheer endurance to take on bosses just now. 5 hits and I am out of blue bar and dead.

Discouraging so far.

roll a Behemoth (or whatever the Tank one is called).

fragility problem solved.

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Bill Z Bubba · 10-08-2012 12:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy

Titan Network.

I wish them the best but I'm not holding my breath for anything to come of that. Reading through the various threads they have on the topic does not inspire me to hope.

Be well, people of CoH.

Noyjitat · 10-08-2012 12:14 PM

Champs and Coh are 2 completely different games so don't bother trying to compare them and then DC is a completely different animal. Probably the most beautiful graphics intense game of the 3 but it lacks the customization and really powerful heroes that the other 2 have; but don't take my word for it.

I am also playing champs. I have been playing it since closed beta and it really is a great game. But you gotta really really play it for awhile before you pass judgement on it. It too has some fun gameplay. Just don't let things like walking and running animations or people saying the graphics sucks keep you from playing it. The gameplay is different and you will die alot until you learn how to actually play it. And if you aren't subscribed you likely won't have as much fun because free to play has even less power options than coh had and buying archetypes is a bad deal just like it was in coh if you ever plan to make alts, just get a subscription or buy a lifetime subscription.

Freeform character powers are where the real fun is.

Look me in champions as @noyjitat

Coh still has until November 30th so with any luck someone else will buy the game or we will have private servers shortly afterwards.

Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.

jwbullfrog · 10-08-2012 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig

Use your energy builder.

And there is the SECOND reason I cannot get into CO. I just cannot get used to the idea of using an attack (which takes energy) to build energy for another attack.

The FIRST reason is simply because I cannot stand looking at the game. This, in my very humble opinion, is a massive flaw in a form of entertainment that should be visually appealing.

Writer of In-Game fiction: Just Completed: My Summer Vacation. My older things are now being archived at Fanfiction.net http://www.fanfiction.net/~jwbullfrog until I come up with a better solution.

Evil_Legacy · 10-08-2012 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba

I wish them the best but I'm not holding my breath for anything to come of that. Reading through the various threads they have on the topic does not inspire me to hope.

At first it seemed to be that they had it together but when it got tough, it seemed to turn into chaos. I think they might eventually pull it off but hope they die down some hype or else I think many will be disappointed if the new game isnt exactly like the current COX. And the way it looks, it looks like they cant even agree on what would constitute a spiritual successor to COX.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

Evil_Legacy · 10-08-2012 12:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwbullfrog

And there is the SECOND reason I cannot get into CO. I just cannot get used to the idea of using an attack (which takes energy) to build energy for another attack.

The FIRST reason is simply because I cannot stand looking at the game. This, in my very humble opinion, is a massive flaw in a form of entertainment that should be visually appealing.

Oh yea that mechanic isnt for everybody that is for sure. But I like it better than running out of end and waiting for the bar to return or having to take an insp.

That mechanic, you can still deal damage. as small as it is, and build up endurance bar. Instead of having to basically stop attacking here so the bar can rebuild.

-Female Player-

Quote:

Originally Posted by mauk2

Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks."
I laffed so hard.

Never change, E_L!

TwoHeadedBoy · 10-08-2012 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jwbullfrog

And there is the SECOND reason I cannot get into CO. I just cannot get used to the idea of using an attack (which takes energy) to build energy for another attack.

Think of it like a ST version of consume that also does a little damage.

Bad_Influence · 10-08-2012 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig

Use your energy builder.

At the risk of sounding ignorant, I will ask: what the hell is that, even? Where is it? I dont even know where that is.....

This game gives you NO basic tutorial. I looked around on their forums, and every tutorial I can find is about crunching high-level numbers or what have you - there is nothing for people coming in on the ground floor, who don't know anything.

The only thing I remember being told about in the "tutorial" was blocking. That is NOT MUCH. they don't tell you how to level up, I was in the tutorial and had no idea how to get out, or even when that would happen.

Perhaps I am spoiled: in CoX the tutorial spits you out in front of a trainer, and tells you to go talk to them. I was level 5, running around the beginner zone wondering Who do I talk to, to level!?

Turns out you DONT level in there, but a little info would have been nice so people know what to do next. I am aware that all this makes me sound of small intelligence, but many of us without a lot of non-CoX MMO experience are doing a bit of flailing, I think.

TwoHeadedBoy · 10-08-2012 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bad_Influence

At the risk of sounding ignorant, I will ask: what the hell is that, even? Where is it? I dont even know where that is.....

This game gives you NO basic tutorial. I looked around on their forums, and every tutorial I can find is about crunching high-level numbers or what have you - there is nothing for people coming in on the ground floor, who don't know anything.

The only thing I remember being told about in the "tutorial" was blocking. That is NOT MUCH. they don't tell you how to level up, I was in the tutorial and had no idea how to get out, or even when that would happen.

Perhaps I am spoiled: in CoX the tutorial spits you out in front of a trainer, and tells you to go talk to them. I was level 5, running around the beginner zone wondering Who do I talk to, to level!?

Turns out you DONT level in there, but a little info would have been nice so people know what to do next. I am aware that all this makes me sound of small intelligence, but many of us without a lot of non-CoX MMO experience are doing a bit of flailing, I think.

The energy builder is your first attack. When you use it, it builds up energy (like endurance.) Blocking also builds energy. You need energy for charge up/maintain powers, self heals, active offense/defense, etc. I thought the tutorial in CO did a decent job, and when it came to getting acquainted with builds like I said earlier I just asked around on the forums.

It does tell you how to level up, but that might not be until you get to Millennium. It's actually super easy- You don't need to go to a trainer, you can train right from the icon in your power tray.

As for getting out of the tutorial, open up your mission log and make sure you select "make primary" every time you get a new mission. This will give you an arrow over your character that guides you where you need to go, and it's not just for the tutorial.