Champions Online: just doesn't cut it.
By
Ael Rhiana,
Posted on: 2012-10-06 24:47 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Having over 100 chars of different concepts on this game was never enough for me. I am a LTS of both CO and DCUO with probably well over 20 characters on each of them games. All games are flawed but then they also have their goodpoints and whilst there is a dev team to improve a game there is always potential.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
I played CO in beta and some time after that...
Now I tried to play a Free Sorcery character but Im not sure about combat and gameplay...
Why you have tons of powers when blocking and using a powerful AoE or TAoE blast power is enough to defeat mobs?
I have a few lvl 40 characters and I ended up using just 2 or 3 powers...
Thats meh for me.
I like the attack chain and every power in build has a purpose like we have in COH...
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But, it's made by the same parent company. And I see SO MANY things that're outright ripoffs of City Of Heroes that it reduces the game to a "redheaded stepchild" status. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
1. It's not CoH. That doesn't make it unbearable. Given the choice I'd play CoH, but come December 1 that's probably not going to be possible, so I'm trying to judge this one on its own merits rather than comparing it to CoH. It can't live up to that just because we all have too much history invested. |
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
2. Graphics are an eyesore on the defaults, but the two biggest things that can help are turning off the godawful outlining (which improves performance to boot), and spending time with the sliders in the character creator. Shorten up those Gumby arms, shrink the basketball head and the pie plate hands. Lengthening the legs a tick also gets closer to the CoH proportions we're used to. Remember to check out the face sliders and squint the eyes unless you're an anime fan.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
3. Once you get used to the graphics, the fact that it's five years newer than the original CoH zones becomes apparent. The city architecture for instance - it FEELS like a city, or at least a comic book version of one. It feels much closer to Nova Praetoria than Steel Canyon.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
4. The tutorial is longer than the "new" CoH one but there's a lot of the same feel - that you're being led around by the nose. Once you clear that and train up it's starting to feel more like the sandbox we're used to, though there does seem to be a shortage of contacts compared to the KR-Steel-Sky range. Again, a Praetoria feel.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
5. The character creator is a bit counter-intuitive but there's some good stuff there. For some reason they retain the ancient CoH model (when did it go away - issue 3 maybe?) of having to scroll through an ENTIRE list with a mouse instead of giving us clickable arrows. And if you choose something, it resets to the top of the list which is annoying if you're fiddling around. The free to play costumes are a bit limited on the armors and wacky stuff, but there's a good selection if you're into spandex and capes. And considering where we're coming from...
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
6. The big one: The free to play archetypes are really, REALLY limited. If you want to play a scrapper you'd better like swords, for instance. The freeform ATs, and most of the flavor on the basic ones, are all behind the paywall.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Slovakia
Like I said, if City stays, I'm staying here. But at least at the low levels, it's not bad. A few of us tried running the first post-tutorial missions as a team the other night. It went surprisingly well in the sense that it passes the test of being decent interactive social media; giving your fingers and eyes something to do while you're chatting with friends. And personally I've always been more into the social aspects of gaming than min-maxing anyway. I'm not saying it's great. But I'm hoping it will be "good enough."
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I "heard" some channel chatter a while back about the differences in the two games. Someone said CoX was a more polished and better game because it had a full dev staff. I disagree. CoX had a full dev staff because it was a better game. Personally, if I had the option to choose between working at Cryptic on ChO and at Paragon on CoX.....I'd choose CoX every time. Just a better game all around, in my opinion. Right from the start......which leads me to this. Jack Emmert is a good idea man. After all, he came up with the idea for City of. Just....he couldn't develop the game for nothing. Ditto CO. And STO....and...whatever he works on. Good for ideas, bad for implementation. It -seems- like he implimented too long on CO for it to be a good game. Maybe with time it'll improve.
In all honesty....for me personally...if the game lost the kiddy graphics, it'd be good. As it is...I have to -force- myself to play it, or wait until my superhero jones is just TOO strong.
I tried really hard to get into it but I had to stop. It wasn't the visuals for me it was the confusing power and skill options and upgrades that got me. Superstats and armor and specialisation trees, it all feels clunky and tacked on.
I'm having the same trouble with TL2.
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Yeah I can empathize with this a bit, but I went on the CO forums seeking direction with the free form build process and it seems logical albeit unnecessarily convoluted. I think it's probably like explaining how IO's and Incarnate crafting works to someone who didn't play COH though- Just one of those things I expect to naturally pick up on more and more as I play the game.
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Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I tried really hard to get into it but I had to stop. It wasn't the visuals for me it was the confusing power and skill options and upgrades that got me. Superstats and armor and specialisation trees, it all feels clunky and tacked on.
I'm having the same trouble with TL2. |
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No different than people having to get used to IOs and set bonuses really.|
Originally Posted by _Klaw_
I tried really hard to get into it but I had to stop. It wasn't the visuals for me it was the confusing power and skill options and upgrades that got me. Superstats and armor and specialisation trees, it all feels clunky and tacked on.
I'm having the same trouble with TL2. |
That said, CO does have it's flaws, just as CoH had it's own flaws.
You also don't have that sense of "OMG SUPER" (at least I haven't) that one can get in CoH when it comes to building characters and then soloing AVs.
Hopefully a lot changes gets fixed with the apparent influx of players.
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection
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Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Can you find me something that's universally and objectively bad?
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IO's only matter in the late game and you don't even need them to build a decent toon.
CO first time around is not bad.
Its not for alting because the leveling is like pulling teeth.
lv40 muntions person, imo the dual pistol moves in CO > COH
Another issue I like CO over COH (apart from the vastly superior customization) is the fact super strength toon actually fell like super strength, being able to haymaker people like a mile into the distance
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I find the specializations and such in ChO easier to deal with than IOs and set bonuses - both because I don't have to buy equipment to implement them and because as a tabletop RPG player they seem more natural to me.
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Originally Posted by BrandX
No different than people having to get used to IOs and set bonuses really.
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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Yeah, you'd really have to try to come up with a more comprehensively silly system than IOs. I still don't know exactly how static bonuses like the +3% def from Steadfast Protection work with exemplaring, and that's after years of messing around with Mids.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Yeah I can empathize with this a bit, but I went on the CO forums seeking direction with the free form build process and it seems logical albeit unnecessarily convoluted. I think it's probably like explaining how IO's and Incarnate crafting works to someone who didn't play COH though- Just one of those things I expect to naturally pick up on more and more as I play the game.
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The problem with CO's specializations isn't the system. At a glance, it doesn't look too complicated. You get a bunch of apparent choices, half of them are trash, so you take the ones that aren't. MMO 101. The problem is that the best way to find out which options are trash is to get the advice of know-it-all players (another MMO universal), but the CO forums seem to be less populated or less stable or something. I found some pretty comprehensive guides to the freeloader Archetypes on a different set of forums, but forgot to bookmark them. Whoops.
Anyway, the truth is out there. Somewhere.
i like the borderlands graphics, it did look a little cartoony at first, but as mentioned by previous poster it feels more like a graphic novel style artwork.
the CO graphics as a whole are just eye burning to me, even with the outlining turned off and stuff i cant look at the pictures without throwing up in my mind, the CO graphics are just supremely awful it looks like their art department is a bunch of 10 year olds
from what i heard about the other stuff, the gameplay and stuff seems more like a standard grind MMO
unless it has some drastic changes i wont even attempt to play it, and honestly i wont really be playing mmos for awhile (if ever) if we cant save coh in some way
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Rule of thumb is that if it shows up in your set bonus list and isn't purple or pvp, it follows set bonus exemp rules. But I digress obviously.|
Originally Posted by CannonballJack
Yeah, you'd really have to try to come up with a more comprehensively silly system than IOs. I still don't know exactly how static bonuses like the +3% def from Steadfast Protection work with exemplaring, and that's after years of messing around with Mids.
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The problem with CO's specializations isn't the system. At a glance, it doesn't look too complicated. You get a bunch of apparent choices, half of them are trash, so you take the ones that aren't. MMO 101. The problem is that the best way to find out which options are trash is to get the advice of know-it-all players (another MMO universal), but the CO forums seem to be less populated or less stable or something. I found some pretty comprehensive guides to the freeloader Archetypes on a different set of forums, but forgot to bookmark them. Whoops. Anyway, the truth is out there. Somewhere. |
And to avoid getting mixed in with whiners and haters: I like CO. I fully intend to understand all of this nonsense and maybe even find it necessary at one point, once I'm better at the game. It's super fun, the production value is high and I dig the art. One of my favorite things about CO is that I think it knows that it's a super hero video game. One of the worst things about COH for me has always been how annoyingly tryhard the writers are. I mean they write these tacky characters like they have meaningful stories. CO doesn't take itself that seriously, and to me, that creates a way more fun and entertaining environment.
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I heard they put in diminishing returns without documenting it.
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Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Rule of thumb is that if it shows up in your set bonus list and isn't purple or pvp, it follows set bonus exemp rules. But I digress obviously.
For me, the problem is how much stuff there is. I mean, we have.. What? Super stats? Other super stats? Characteristics? Skills? Advantages? Gear? Mods? Specializations? Second specializations? Making sense of character building in CO is just, like I said earlier, a very convoluted process. That's on top of what you're talking about here I'm sure. There are inevitable layers of complication in all of the aforementioned complications. |
I hit level 40 last night on Wundastar, my ex-Fire/SS Brute. It wasn't hard to faithfully recreate her in Champions, in fact she felt closer to my original idea than in CoH, since I could drop in heat vision and so on as I went, and not when the archetype system said I could.
It was brilliant!
To be honest, I felt much more like a superhero playing CO this time round than I did in the late game of CoH - more one on one fights with powerful supervillains, and less beating up masses of minions.
Some of the later game missions, like the Vibora Bay Apocalypse, are utterly awesome. That one in particular would be the best superhero story I've played through in any game.
The tutorial with Black Talon is rubbish, but it would be a shame to discount the game purely because of that.
On the downside, the game is buggy, and has let me down badly a couple of times on the way to 50. There's much less content, so I'll see how it stands up to repeated levelling.
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I had a similar problem, made worse by the fact that things had changed so much from what it was at launch, that I did understand, that I kept getting stuck in the Powerhouse.|
Originally Posted by TwoHeadedBoy
Yeah I can empathize with this a bit, but I went on the CO forums seeking direction with the free form build process and it seems logical albeit unnecessarily convoluted. I think it's probably like explaining how IO's and Incarnate crafting works to someone who didn't play COH though- Just one of those things I expect to naturally pick up on more and more as I play the game.
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I solved it the same way you did, though. I posted a thread with a build and asked for help, and that helped a lot.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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You don't?|
Originally Posted by BrandX
No different than people having to get used to IOs and set bonuses really.
That said, CO does have it's flaws, just as CoH had it's own flaws. You also don't have that sense of "OMG SUPER" (at least I haven't) that one can get in CoH when it comes to building characters and then soloing AVs. Hopefully a lot changes gets fixed with the apparent influx of players. |
Check out Serpent Lantern or Resistance. Both gave me that feeling.
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
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I don't know. I mean when it gets to the point of characterizing people who like something as stupid or whatever (or secretly hating it but too ashamed to come back to this game) it's going beyond simply stating a preference.|
Originally Posted by Bill Z Bubba
Or people could just accept that when someone calls something bad they are stating a preference.
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Can you find me something that's universally and objectively bad? CO is a bad game because it's an ugly game. I am allowed to call it bad because I consider a bad game. And, yes, I killed the black outline and had everything set to max. |
Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
And the same can be applied in reverse. I have been on the heels of some very nasty trolling there and I do have things turned off and am set to the CoH channel. It seems because I didn't like it before and now I'm coming around I deserve said treatment. Wrong.
I have not chastised individuals for liking the game, in fact, my entire SG is there now. All I have done is state that the game has some quirks I dislike (beyond the silly cell shading everyone thinks I'm talking about.) But my opinion, to the games staunch defenders, is flawed and makes me worth of insults and mockery.
That's all fine, but the atmosphere is not something I want in my life right now. So, to the trolls and those that think opinions worthy of insults rather than critique, keep the game. You've already proven to me the community spirit here isn't shared there .
BTW this is on the heels a five reported incidents Ingame. I might add, that in CoH I only ever reported one person in the eight years I played. Five in three weeks... The game is uninstalled and will never be part of my library again because of this experience.
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Not to turn it into a list making game here, but I'd strongly add aftershock too. that last battle was on par with the last mission with mot.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
You don't?
Check out Serpent Lantern or Resistance. Both gave me that feeling. |
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Not surprising. I just haven't managed to get to Aftershock.
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Originally Posted by rian_frostdrake
Not to turn it into a list making game here, but I'd strongly add aftershock too. that last battle was on par with the last mission with mot.
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Elsegame: Champions Online: @BellaStrega ||| Battle.net: Ashleigh#1834 ||| Bioware Social Network: BellaStrega ||| EA Origin: Bella_Strega ||| Steam: BellaStrega ||| The first Guild Wars: Kali Magdalene ||| The Secret World: BelleStarr (Arcadia)
yeah done those three. Good stuff, good battles. Didnt care too much for the fog of death but it fit the storyline well.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Every fight against an AV in CoH made my characters feel small and weak, whereas the opposite has been true for the most part in ChO without even getting into the mission packs or what-have-you.
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Originally Posted by BellaStrega
You don't?
Check out Serpent Lantern or Resistance. Both gave me that feeling. |
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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yeah.
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
Every fight against an AV in CoH made my characters feel small and weak, whereas the opposite has been true for the most part in ChO without even getting into the mission packs or what-have-you.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
This isn't to say other MMOs don't have a RP community, but they've all lacked CoH's club scene (which let's be honest, was the butt of a lot of jokes anyways, and most who considered themselves serious RPers avoided...which makes sense, sense half those who RPed in there couldn't 1) follow canon and 2) keep it a respectable night club even without following canon).
BrandX Future Staff Fighter
The BrandX Collection