NCSoft's Official Response to Us
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2012-10-02 13:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
No because Starcraft is nearly a national sport in Korea. No where near the same.
|
Originally Posted by MrPlayskool
Watch karma come around one of these days. For example, let's imagine that Blizzard decides it wants to stop supporting Korean Starcraft players. Now, while that may not be exactly the same, the outrage would be quite similar, and potentially worse.
|
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
A game is being shut down by Koreans to be Korean Only, Despite profit, Awesome people are enraged and baffled at the way it was handled.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
No because Starcraft is nearly a national sport in Korea. No where near the same.
|
Game is being shut down by Americans to be American only, Koreans declare war.
Seems legit.
Quote:
Except it would likely drive up sales of NCsoft's games, as Starcraft players roamed the internet looking for something else. |
Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA
A game is being shut down by Koreans to be Korean Only, Despite profit, Awesome people are enraged and baffled at the way it was handled.
Game is being shut down by Americans to be American only, Koreans declare war. Seems legit. |
You want Karma, take a dump on NCsoft wherever you can.
Quote:
This. |
Originally Posted by Coyote_Seven
Well then. Our one last option is to wait for NCSoft to enter bankruptcy and be forced to liquidate all of its assets. We'd have to be collectively poised to pounce on that opportunity the moment it arrives. :P
|
And it's bound to happen, since they've burned their bridges with many of their loyal customers.
Target Zero- Scrapper (dark/dark)
Nemesis Zero- MM (Merc/Dark)
Poprock- brute (Stone/stone)
Junglier- Dominator (Plant/thorn)
Nexus Zero- (Warshade)
Invulnerable Edge- Tanker (Inv/dual blade)
Quote:
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; mean absolutely nothing to them.|
Originally Posted by Target_Zero
This.
And it's bound to happen, since they've burned their bridges with many of their loyal customers. |
We couldn't convince our friends to play this game for the long run if at all so why do you think we would be able to convince strangers to boycott NCSoft? We are perfectly safe bridges to burn because it's obvious that we can't affect opinion very much.
We are all, if we admit to it or not, searching for something else to sink our time in, knowing that the things this game had can't be duplicated totally, mostly or even partially in any other MMO out there. Some of us will return to consoles or primarily single player PC games but I have a feeling that over the short term a fair number of us will be looking to MMOs that cost little to nothing to play. We may end up playing several of them so we never get too attached to our characters again.
Some of us over the last 8 years have poured a lot of money into this one game and now that it's done, now that we lose everything, aren't looking to repeat it. And in some cases, depending on your friends, that choice will end up being GW2. One time cost, no subscription, yet another sword and armor fantasy romp so you may not develop a strong attachment to your characters. I already have friends pressuring me to join them, and if it goes on sale it may be something I pick up. $50 to NCSoft is a lot less than the $150+ I spent year after year with them. It'll still hurt them in the long run.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
And here's where Mot's mouth goes OM NOM NOM NOM NOM.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; mean absolutely nothing to them.
We couldn't convince our friends to play this game for the long run if at all so why do you think we would be able to convince strangers to boycott NCSoft? We are perfectly safe bridges to burn because it's obvious that we can't affect opinion very much. We are all, if we admit to it or not, searching for something else to sink our time in, knowing that the things this game had can't be duplicated totally, mostly or even partially in any other MMO out there. Some of us will return to consoles or primarily single player PC games but I have a feeling that over the short term a fair number of us will be looking to MMOs that cost little to nothing to play. We may end up playing several of them so we never get too attached to our characters again. Some of us over the last 8 years have poured a lot of money into this one game and now that it's done, now that we lose everything, aren't looking to repeat it. And in some cases, depending on your friends, that choice will end up being GW2. One time cost, no subscription, yet another sword and armor fantasy romp so you may not develop a strong attachment to your characters. I already have friends pressuring me to join them, and if it goes on sale it may be something I pick up. $50 to NCSoft is a lot less than the $150+ I spent year after year with them. It'll still hurt them in the long run. |
Now that the smoke's gone
And the air is all clear
Those who were right there
Got a new kind of fear
You'd fight and you were right
But they were just to strong
They'd stick it in your face
And let you smell what they consider wrong
That's why I say hey man nice, nice shot
What a good shot man
Quote:
The one sole voice of logic, reason and sanity in this asylum. Bravo.
|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers; mean absolutely nothing to them.
We couldn't convince our friends to play this game for the long run if at all so why do you think we would be able to convince strangers to boycott NCSoft? We are perfectly safe bridges to burn because it's obvious that we can't affect opinion very much. We are all, if we admit to it or not, searching for something else to sink our time in, knowing that the things this game had can't be duplicated totally, mostly or even partially in any other MMO out there. Some of us will return to consoles or primarily single player PC games but I have a feeling that over the short term a fair number of us will be looking to MMOs that cost little to nothing to play. We may end up playing several of them so we never get too attached to our characters again. Some of us over the last 8 years have poured a lot of money into this one game and now that it's done, now that we lose everything, aren't looking to repeat it. And in some cases, depending on your friends, that choice will end up being GW2. One time cost, no subscription, yet another sword and armor fantasy romp so you may not develop a strong attachment to your characters. I already have friends pressuring me to join them, and if it goes on sale it may be something I pick up. $50 to NCSoft is a lot less than the $150+ I spent year after year with them. It'll still hurt them in the long run. |
Quote:
This part is absolutely true. I started playing CoH when a dozen or so friends got me to sign up during a trial period in 2005. One or two lasted for a couple years (actually, one may have even predated me). After that, I was the only one playing.|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
We couldn't convince our friends to play this game for the long run if at all
|
The others moved onto other games. Basically they're of what seems to be a very large set of players (probably the majority) that tries almost any MMO when it comes out, plays it for a number of months, then moves on to the next new game.
This seems like such a regular pattern that I don't know why it isn't standard procedure for companies like NCSoft to develop games with the idea going IN that they are going to help develop, then reap the early rewards/box sales, then when most players have moved on except for a dedicated smaller number, spin the game off. Either sell the IP or license it, either way you get something and can move on.
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
Most of my friends refer to COH as a "MMO for beginners" and I think there's some truth to that. Pre-IO's, it absolutely was an easy pick-up-and-play game with none of the management skills required in most other MMO's. Even Post-IO's, where crafting here was pretty basic stuff, its a fairly easy game to master. That's one reason I never understood all the hub-bub about "AE babies" at 50 that didn't know much. There's so little to actually learn in this game that anyone can play it in a matter of a half-hour or so. Tab, movement and click a few powers. That's it.
I've always found COH to be more of a chat system with a game built around it than a challenging MMO. And that's likely why it died off over the years. Casual games are...casually forgotten.
Same here Gec72, I started with a half a dozen friends in Aug of 2004. Within 3 months there were only 3 of us still playing, in 3 years only two and now only me. It was the first MMO any of us played. To my knowledge none of them have moved on to a another MMO (well one played Maplestory for a while so he could play with his nephews).
And why does an MMO need to be complicated? What's wrong with eliminating loot rolls and farming for beaver pelts for shoes? I'm not a skilled FPS player so I'm not interested in FPS style movement and targeting to defend and attack critters. I don't need to show off to those around me my "elite" loot by literally wearing it on my sleeve.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
I would argue that other MMOs are overly complex and don't focus on fun. Whereas CoH focuses on fun over complexity.
|
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Most of my friends refer to COH as a "MMO for beginners" and I think there's some truth to that. Pre-IO's, it absolutely was an easy pick-up-and-play game with none of the management skills required in most other MMO's. Even Post-IO's, where crafting here was pretty basic stuff, its a fairly easy game to master. That's one reason I never understood all the hub-bub about "AE babies" at 50 that didn't know much. There's so little to actually learn in this game that anyone can play it in a matter of a half-hour or so. Tab, movement and click a few powers. That's it.
I've always found COH to be more of a chat system with a game built around it than a challenging MMO. And that's likely why it died off over the years. Casual games are...casually forgotten. |
Quote:
yea some games dont feel like games at all. feels more like work. COH had a balance but started to go more on the average grind fest towards the end. Not that it was a bad thing as I think it was meant to keep players that were looking for a little more grind around.
|
Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA
I would argue that other MMOs are overly complex and don't focus on fun. Whereas CoH focuses on fun over complexity.
|
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
Not that it was necessarily complex, but for me the respec system has always been overly tedious and non-conducive to experimentation, especially for situations where only minor changes in slot numbers or resources were desired. I personally would have done much more experimentation and tweaking (and probably played more regularly as a consequence) with a more facile, non-linear interface for doing so.
Quote:
What the hell does that even mean? Games are all about "fun". This mysterious quality you call "fun" is not something devs randomly focus on. Sure, it may be "fun" to mass nuke ten thousand mobs, but it's not going to hold a person's interest for very long. That may be why CoH/V failed - it just wasn't hard enough, and hadn't been remotely difficult since the days when respec trials were actually an iffy scenario for most teams. That was.. oh, I6 maybe?
|
Originally Posted by DarkBlaster_NA
I would argue that other MMOs are overly complex and don't focus on fun. Whereas CoH focuses on fun over complexity.
|
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Quote:
I agree COH was too easy. It gave a diminished sense of accomplishment. NCsoft knows that (most)people play MMOs to satisfy their egos, from being able to show off their E-BLING and what what ever else they accomplished. Which COH had none of. Really the closest thing to e-bling in this game are Pylon runs time.
|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
What the hell does that even mean? Games are all about "fun". This mysterious quality you call "fun" is not something devs randomly focus on. Sure, it may be "fun" to mass nuke ten thousand mobs, but it's not going to hold a person's interest for very long. That may be why CoH/V failed - it just wasn't hard enough, and hadn't been remotely difficult since the days when respec trials were actually an iffy scenario for most teams. That was.. oh, I6 maybe?
|
Quote:
Wow. Learn something new everyday. Always thought games were created for fun and people played for fun and not to show off stuff and or ego strokes but if that wasthe case grindfests wouldnt be popular and if grinding was fun, then there wouldnt be so many people trying to find ways to get around it to get through it as quick as possible. That really explains a lot though.
|
Originally Posted by Dz131
I agree COH was too easy. It gave a diminished sense of accomplishment. NCsoft knows that (most)people play MMOs to satisfy their egos, from being able to show off their E-BLING and what what ever else they accomplished. Which COH had none of. Really the closest thing to e-bling in this game are Pylon runs time.
|
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Quote:
We all know by now that COH did not fail. NC SOFT decided to go in a different direction with big max revenue type projects vs smaller niche type products like COH and the secret project that Paragon was working on. Confirmed by both NC SOFT and Paragon.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
That may be why CoH/V failed - it just wasn't hard enough
|
Reaching to attach personal issues disguised as "the reason COH failed" is not only disingenuous it is factually incorrect.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Uhh COH wasn't making enough money so it got shutdown, I'd say it failed. Failed to make enough money where NCSoft wouldn't want to shut them down. As for it being a niche product, well...I doubt it was designed to be a niche type product, just like DCUO and CO weren't. It just became niche because there wasn't enough appeal, so from the get go, it was failing.
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
We all know by now that COH did not fail. NC SOFT decided to go in a different direction with big max revenue type projects vs smaller niche type products like COH and the secret project that Paragon was working on. Confirmed by both NC SOFT and Paragon.
Reaching to attach personal issues disguised as "the reason COH failed" is not only disingenuous it is factually incorrect. |
Quote:
Being a Superhero project makes in niche out of the box. Belief in something different than that is just that belief nothing more.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Uhh COH wasn't making enough money so it got shutdown, I'd say it failed. Failed to make enough money where NCSoft wouldn't want to shut them down. As for it being a niche product, well...I doubt it was designed to be a niche type product, just like DCUO and CO weren't. It just became niche because there wasn't enough appeal, so from the get go, it was failing.
|
Part of the reason NC SOFT decided to go in another direction could certainly have been that a niche product like COH and the secret project Z mentioned in the podcast were never intended to be big revenue makers. They are not and never were going to be big budget wide appeal type projects which is the direction NC SOFT said they decided to go.
That's a NC SOFT change of focus, not a COH was losing money and failed. Hard for me to view a money maker as failed, but I can see that the corporate mentality of "not enough" profit has trickled down to some consumers.
Good luck with that.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Really? What isn't a niche product then? A game based in the Warcraft universe is not niche? Where people who don't follow the series have no idea who or what anyone is? DCUO has 10 times the brand name Warcraft ever did, but it became niche while WOW has 10 mil subs. It's all how the gameplay is handled, not what your subject matter is. |
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Being a Superhero project makes in niche out of the box. Belief in something different than that is just that belief nothing more.
Part of the reason NC SOFT decided to go in another direction could certainly have been that a niche product like COH and the secret project Z mentioned in the podcast were never intended to be big revenue makers. They are not and never were going to be big budget wide appeal type projects which is the direction NC SOFT said they decided to go. That's a NC SOFT change of focus, not a COH was losing money and failed. Hard for me to view a money maker as failed, but I can see that the corporate mentality of "not enough" profit has trickled down to some consumers. Good luck with that. |
Case in point: EVE, THAT's a niche product by design if there ever was one. But it's succeddes while WAR, AOC DCUO,Tortanic goes down the crapper.
As for COH...well there's a point where you think, if I took all the money we invest in this per year, and bought car parts with it from a warehouse, then sold them on Amazon, would I be making more money? I think COH was probably making a profit, which is not hard, I can make a profit selling oranges. COH is making much lower than what's expected by the overlords, which means it failed.
Quote:
Run +4/x8 solo on SOs only and say it's too easy.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
I agree COH was too easy. It gave a diminished sense of accomplishment. NCsoft knows that (most)people play MMOs to satisfy their egos, from being able to show off their E-BLING and what what ever else they accomplished. Which COH had none of. Really the closest thing to e-bling in this game are Pylon runs time.
|
Set IOs are the cheat codes of CoH. Saying you beat Doom without dying once while using iddqd doesn't mean all that much.
Quote:
DC has a wonderful brand for the niche genre of superhero's. |
Originally Posted by Dz131
Really? What isn't a niche product then? A game based in the Warcraft universe is not niche? Where people who don't follow the series have no idea who or what anyone is? DCUO has 10 times the brand name Warcraft ever did, but it became niche while WOW has 10 mil subs. It's all how the gameplay is handled, not what your subject matter is.
Case in point: EVE, THAT's a niche product by design if there ever was one. But it's succeddes while WAR, AOC DCUO,Tortanic goes down the crapper. As for COH...well there's a point where you think, if I took all the money we invest in this per year, and bought car parts with it from a warehouse, then sold them on Amazon, would I be making more money? I think COH was probably making a profit, which is not hard, I can make a profit selling oranges. COH is making much lower than what's expected by the overlords, which means it failed. |
Admittedly when I got my Economics degree from UCLA in 1986 one my professors warned us about some things that were coming down the pike. At "that" time nobody worth mentioning would ever have defined a profitable company at the levels reported for COH as "failed".
Fast forward post greed is good, the software explosion and the entry of number crunchers into software corporations in positions of power and we have profitable games now being labeled as failed because they failed to be MOAR profitable....
Ok that's cool, but that is the exact same mentality that took your(WORKING AMERICANS) jobs and sent them elsewhere, not because the company was not making enough profit to be sustained, but because they were not making enough money to give the CEO and other executives the level of BONUS they wanted.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Basically. But when they get into a pinch they want to use our tax dollars to bail them out, yet call the indivudals that they got rid of to make more profits and need assistance leeches.
|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
DC has a wonderful brand for the niche genre of superhero's.
Admittedly when I got my Economics degree from UCLA in 1986 one my professors warned us about some things that were coming down the pike. At "that" time nobody worth mentioning would ever have defined a profitable company at the levels reported for COH as "failed". Fast forward post greed is good, the software explosion and the entry of number crunchers into software corporations in positions of power and we have profitable games now being labeled as failed because they failed to be MOAR profitable.... Ok that's cool, but that is the exact same mentality that took your(WORKING AMERICANS) jobs and sent them elsewhere, not because the company was not making enough profit to be sustained, but because they were not making enough money to give the CEO and other executives the level of BONUS they wanted. |
-Female Player-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
Watch karma come around one of these days. For example, let's imagine that Blizzard decides it wants to stop supporting Korean Starcraft players. Now, while that may not be exactly the same, the outrage would be quite similar, and potentially worse.