NCSoft's Official Response to Us
By
Acroyear2,
Posted on: 2012-10-02 13:55 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I am not sure what you point in the first part of your post is at all man. If you feel superhero games are not niche I am fine with that as it would never change the reality of that deal.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
And Warcraft was a wonderful brand name for a nice LOTR rip off. But somehow manages to be more succeful than the real thing. IT's all gameplay, not subject matter like I said.
As for COX. It's opportunity cost was too high, so it got axed. The rest of your post is basically just CAPITALISM BAD GRRR. Seriously, blame the corrupt circus called the US government on it's terrible regulations rather than the companies who use those practices. |
No the second part is not capitalism bad grrr, but you taking as such explains everything that need be in this case.
Carry on.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I feel they're as niche as a Warcraft game.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
I am not sure what you point in the first part of your post is at all man. If you feel superhero games are not niche I am fine with that as it would never change the reality of that deal.
No the second part is not capitalism bad grrr, but you taking as such explains everything that need be in this case. Carry on. |
As for the rest.
No rebuttal as I thought.
Carry on.
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What you feel is not a part of reality but you are welcomed to it.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
I feel they're as niche as a Warcraft game.
As for the rest. No rebuttal as I thought. Carry on. |
Capitalism bad grr is not anything that garners a response.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Oh bro, keep trying to justify why your game made no money. "Hurr, it was supposed to have low revenue because it was a niche game, it wasn't failing at all." While EVE flourishes and it the second biggest MMO in the West. I think what YOU think is not part of reality.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
What you feel is not a part of reality but you are welcomed to it.
Capitalism bad grr is not anything that garners a response. |
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"My" game. "Made no money". Fake made up quotes to carry on your one sided conversation with yourself about the stuff you made up. Typical and Brilliant.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
Oh bro, keep trying to justify why your game made no money. "Hurr, it was supposed to have low revenue because it was a niche game, it wasn't failing at all." While EVE flourishes and it the second biggest MMO in the West. I think what YOU think is not part of reality.
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On a lighter note. Maybe we can get together in EVE and....settle things so to speak lol.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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But you keep replying. I love the word 'niche' being thrown around as a get out of jail free card to justify why something doesn't haven enough users. Almost as bad as 'indy'.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
"My" game. "Made no money". Fake made up quotes to carry on your one sided conversation with yourself about the stuff you made up. Typical and Brilliant.
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| On a lighter note. Maybe we can get together in EVE and....settle things so to speak lol. |
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I was talking to a friend about this the other day - one that played CoH, regularly played WoW, and probably tried about everything else out there (he is also of the opinion that it makes little sense on the surface what NCSoft is doing...and he's an economist! |
Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Wow. Learn something new everyday. Always thought games were created for fun and people played for fun and not to show off stuff and or ego strokes
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).He brought up gear, and how is tied to appearance. I wondered...why would they even do that? That takes away options for customization. "Because players want to be seen with their kewl loot. It's for their egos." That mentality is SO far from my own. Heck, half the time I don't even want to be seen at all in the game. Strutting around showing off accomplishments is the furthest thing from my mind. I'd much rather show off creativity via character concept, if anything at all.
(Similarly PvP does nothing for me - I'm not going to gloat if I win, but if I lose (and I will, bc I am not l33t), whee, I get to hear a mouthful from some jerk. Yay!)
Suggestions:
Super Packs Done Right
Influence Sink: IO Level Mod/Recrafting
Random Merit Rolls: Scale cost by Toon Level
The MMO market is huge and filled principally with fantasy games. Superhero games occupy a smaller subset of MMO gamers. Niche as in a distinct segment of a market, which is superhero MMO's.
The MMO publications view these superhero games as such and I tend to agree with them since they don't occupy a large portion of the gamers that play MMO's.
You are more than welcomed to consider it whatever you want, but that still will not change what it actually is.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Every genre has a starting point. Calling it "niche" is being dismissive based on the fact that fantasy and sci-fi simply have more games. Big companies are betting big money on the superhero "niche" MMOs, none that I support, but they are there. To say that superhero MMOs have limited market share is a truth, but to suggest that that is because the genre isn't popular enough is simply not supported by what we are seeing in print and movie mediums.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The MMO market is huge and filled principally with fantasy games. Superhero games occupy a smaller subset of MMO gamers. Niche as in a distinct segment of a market, which is superhero MMO's.
The MMO publications view these superhero games as such and I tend to agree with them since they don't occupy a large portion of the gamers that play MMO's. You are more than welcomed to consider it whatever you want, but that still will not change what it actually is. |
"Samual_Tow - Be disappointed all you want, people. You just don't appreciate the miracles that are taking place here."
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"Me" using the word niche is absolutely NOT being dismissive, it is simply an acknowledgement of the factual way the genre is viewed by the major publications of MMO's. In other words it is not "my" fault that superhero MMO's are considered niche and it certainly does not reflect any negative bias "on my part" since I love them.
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Originally Posted by Anti_Proton
Every genre has a starting point. Calling it "niche" is being dismissive based on the fact that fantasy and sci-fi simply have more games. Big companies are betting big money on the superhero "niche" MMOs, none that I support, but they are there. To say that superhero MMOs have limited market share is a truth, but to suggest that that is because the genre isn't popular enough is simply not supported by what we are seeing in print and movie mediums.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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I'm sure automobiles were quite a niche market at first. Then Ford made it non-niche. Saying that freaking superheroes are a niche market is pretty ignorant - look at the ticket sales for all these superhero movies.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Being a Superhero project makes in niche out of the box. Belief in something different than that is just that belief nothing more.
Part of the reason NC SOFT decided to go in another direction could certainly have been that a niche product like COH and the secret project Z mentioned in the podcast were never intended to be big revenue makers. They are not and never were going to be big budget wide appeal type projects which is the direction NC SOFT said they decided to go. That's a NC SOFT change of focus, not a COH was losing money and failed. Hard for me to view a money maker as failed, but I can see that the corporate mentality of "not enough" profit has trickled down to some consumers. Good luck with that. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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Yeah, showing off how creative I am and getting regular compliments on it is enough of an ego stroke for me.
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Originally Posted by gec72
He brought up gear, and how is tied to appearance. I wondered...why would they even do that? That takes away options for customization. "Because players want to be seen with their kewl loot. It's for their egos." That mentality is SO far from my own. Heck, half the time I don't even want to be seen at all in the game. Strutting around showing off accomplishments is the furthest thing from my mind. I'd much rather show off creativity via character concept, if anything at all.
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@.@|
Originally Posted by Dz131
NCsoft knows that (most)people play MMOs to satisfy their egos, from being able to show off their E-BLING and what what ever else they accomplished. Which COH had none of. Really the closest thing to e-bling in this game are Pylon runs time.
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errr.... Are you forgetting about badges?
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Originally Posted by Dz131
Uhh COH wasn't making enough money so it got shutdown, I'd say it failed.
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Paragon City Search And Rescue
The Mentor Project
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Ah yes and something going from niche to mainstream usually dont happen fast nor on the first few attempts. Even with good ol Ford, his mainstream success actually came with his third major automotive company with the Detroit Automobile Company being the first (1899). The second one, Henry Ford Company, failed and the remnants of it became Cadillac headed by a Ford associate named Leland, which was eventually bought by GM. Then in a turn of irony, Leland founded Lincoln but came into trouble and good ol Ford was more than happy to get revenge on Leland and bought Lincoln for the lowest price prossible, way less than what the company was worth and basically kicked Leland out. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
I'm sure automobiles were quite a niche market at first. Then Ford made it non-niche. Saying that freaking superheroes are a niche market is pretty ignorant - look at the ticket sales for all these superhero movies.
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But people tend to forget all the other automotive companies out there that didnt make it that came before Ford and when cars were niche and considred only a mere noisy smoking hobby. Only one that came from one of the original companies is the Mercedes-Benz (from the Benz car of 1885 and Daimler of 1889). The first Ford company was founded in 1901. The second, current one came a little later.
The point is that it may take a few tries to go mainstream and I think we are about there with super hero MMOs, but not quite. Then again, gaming itself was considered niche until very recently and online gaming is relatively new and still considered niche outside the gaming world. In about ten years or so, COX would be considered an early attempt to break into the super hero market. WoW is Ford. COX is like DeLorean. Cool car, features, unique, yet didnt hit mainstream very well.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard.  Never change, E_L! |
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yea.
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Originally Posted by gec72
I was talking to a friend about this the other day - one that played CoH, regularly played WoW, and probably tried about everything else out there (he is also of the opinion that it makes little sense on the surface what NCSoft is doing...and he's an economist!
).He brought up gear, and how is tied to appearance. I wondered...why would they even do that? That takes away options for customization. "Because players want to be seen with their kewl loot. It's for their egos." That mentality is SO far from my own. Heck, half the time I don't even want to be seen at all in the game. Strutting around showing off accomplishments is the furthest thing from my mind. I'd much rather show off creativity via character concept, if anything at all. (Similarly PvP does nothing for me - I'm not going to gloat if I win, but if I lose (and I will, bc I am not l33t), whee, I get to hear a mouthful from some jerk. Yay!) |
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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I totally see your point. All the better reason to go for a CoH/V 2. Just go balls to the wall on everything we've ever asked for, and totally revamp the things that need to be revamped. Add in a good PvP system from the very first day, because that's critical.
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Originally Posted by Evil_Legacy
Ah yes and something going from niche to mainstream usually dont happen fast nor on the first few attempts. Even with good ol Ford, his mainstream success actually came with his third major automotive company with the Detroit Automobile Company being the first (1899). The second one, Henry Ford Company, failed and the remnants of it became Cadillac headed by a Ford associate named Leland, which was eventually bought by GM. Then in a turn of irony, Leland founded Lincoln but came into trouble and good ol Ford was more than happy to get revenge on Leland and bought Lincoln for the lowest price prossible, way less than what the company was worth and basically kicked Leland out.
But people tend to forget all the other automotive companies out there that didnt make it that came before Ford and when cars were niche and considred only a mere noisy smoking hobby. Only one that came from one of the original companies is the Mercedes-Benz (from the Benz car of 1885 and Daimler of 1889). The first Ford company was founded in 1901. The second, current one came a little later. The point is that it may take a few tries to go mainstream and I think we are about there with super hero MMOs, but not quite. Then again, gaming itself was considered niche until very recently and online gaming is relatively new and still considered niche outside the gaming world. In about ten years or so, COX would be considered an early attempt to break into the super hero market. WoW is Ford. COX is like DeLorean. Cool car, features, unique, yet didnt hit mainstream very well. |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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yes assuming the community dont contribute to the downfall again. |
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
I totally see your point. All the better reason to go for a CoH/V 2. Just go balls to the wall on everything we've ever asked for, and totally revamp the things that need to be revamped. Add in a good PvP system from the very first day, because that's critical.
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Remember that this game attracted many casual gamers that dont deal too well with the "usual" constant and "demeaning/insulting" trash talk that comes with it. Probably should include a system that rid of those types of players lot quicker and more effeciently to prevent them from running/turning off new players/inexperienced players which can cut into the population with fixes to fix that end up leaving hardcore pvpers jaded and leaving instead thus still taking a hit in population. Or have separate zone for pure hardcore people and one for beginners, yet I'm not sure where would the line be crossed to identify each side and or how to stop the hardcore ones from going in a beginner zone and having a field day at the expense of others and still end up with the current PVP problems that this game has now.
-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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Yes, but that leads to the situation we're in now. Casual gamers are fickle. We need to attract the power gamers and PvPers. That's how EVE Online has so many subscribers. It too is a "niche market" in that it's a completely new world in a non-fantasy setting - just like CoH.
| Remember that this game attracted many casual gamers that dont deal too well with the "usual" constant and "demeaning/insulting" trash talk that comes with it |
Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
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yep, actually.|
Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Yes, but that leads to the situation we're in now.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
Casual gamers are fickle. We need to attract the power gamers and PvPers. That's how EVE Online has so many subscribers. It too is a "niche market" in that it's a completely new world in a non-fantasy setting - just like CoH.
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-Female Player-
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Originally Posted by mauk2
Evil_Legacy became one of my favorite posters with two words.
"Kick Rocks." I laffed so hard. Never change, E_L! |
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It should be clear I said superhero MMO's are a niche market within the larger MMO market which is parroted from the MMO magazines that cover the genre.
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Originally Posted by Angry_Citizen
I'm sure automobiles were quite a niche market at first. Then Ford made it non-niche. Saying that freaking superheroes are a niche market is pretty ignorant - look at the ticket sales for all these superhero movies.
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Maybe Super Hero MMOs aren't the niche we all think they are. Maybe they have just been to easy, to care bear friendly, not enough grind no challenge so that's why it's a niche. Just to ******* easy.
People may not like the grind but they absolutely love the satisfaction and this game this just isn't enough challenge to equal the satisfaction I'm talking about. Someone needs to make a super hero MMO that is actually hard and doesn't hold your god damn hand the entire way threw. Now maybe that game will not attract this games type of user base but if you want to be big, get big, stay big well you have to stop worrying about the small fry.
You want to rule the casual market tough Nintendo already beat you by 3 decades. MMOs and casual just doesn't seem to fit all that well and so the real niche in the MMO market is trying to be casual and not super heroes.
TL;DR the real niche of MMOs is casual and not super heroes.
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So one of those obscure, generally seen to have failed MMOs?
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Originally Posted by Lucky666
Maybe Super Hero MMOs aren't the niche we all think they are. Maybe they have just been to easy, to care bear friendly, not enough grind no challenge so that's why it's a niche. Just to ******* easy.
People may not like the grind but they absolutely love the satisfaction and this game this just isn't enough challenge to equal the satisfaction I'm talking about. Someone needs to make a super hero MMO that is actually hard and doesn't hold your god damn hand the entire way threw. Now maybe that game will not attract this games type of user base but if you want to be big, get big, stay big well you have to stop worrying about the small fry. You want to rule the casual market tough Nintendo already beat you by 3 decades. MMOs and casual just doesn't seem to fit all that well and so the real niche in the MMO market is trying to be casual and not super heroes. TL;DR the real niche of MMOs is casual and not super heroes. |
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
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Ya you know like EVE /endsarcasm|
Originally Posted by bpphantom
So one of those obscure, generally seen to have failed MMOs?
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Only two space MMOs(niche if I ever heard of one) I can think of EVE and Start Trek of the two EVE is way more popular and is also way more hardcore. Some say the learning curve is like stepping off a cliff.
Try again.
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Niche markets are niche until they stop being niche. Stop making excuses. The game was great for us, but we weren't enough. Simple as that.
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Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
It should be clear I said superhero MMO's are a niche market within the larger MMO market which is parroted from the MMO magazines that cover the genre.
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Doom.
Yep.
This is really doom.
Admittedly when I got my Economics degree from UCLA in 1986 one my professors warned us about some things that were coming down the pike. At "that" time nobody worth mentioning would ever have defined a profitable company at the levels reported for COH as "failed".
Fast forward post greed is good, the software explosion and the entry of number crunchers into software corporations in positions of power and we have profitable games now being labeled as failed because they failed to be MOAR profitable....
Ok that's cool, but that is the exact same mentality that took your(WORKING AMERICANS) jobs and sent them elsewhere, not because the company was not making enough profit to be sustained, but because they were not making enough money to give the CEO and other executives the level of BONUS they wanted.
As for COX. It's opportunity cost was too high, so it got axed. The rest of your post is basically just CAPITALISM BAD GRRR. Seriously, blame the corrupt circus called the US government on it's terrible regulations rather than the companies who use those practices.