Amusing GW2 review - light profanity
By
afocks,
Posted on: 2012-09-07 13:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Yes, most of the supposedly "new" stuff was done by CoH.
Shared loots/xp, wanting help with bosses, encouraged teaming, the ability to call/teleport to contacts... and we did it while being able to jump more than two feet.
Oh, and we can fly.
However... it does look like a good game.
I hadn't actually seen the video as it's not up on That Guy With The Glasses, but having seen it now... It's a good review of the game, but I found myself tracing after his points and going "Don't care... Don't Care... Doesn't interest me... GOD that is a bad idea... That's team only... Don't care... Don't care..." and so on. I will freely admit I don't know enough about Guild Wars 2 to judge the game objectively, but if what Joe mentioned is what the game is about, then it quite literally has nothing I want out of a game, and quite a few things I specifically DON'T want out of a game. The "quest" system, for instance, is HORRID. I hate those communal overworld quests.
Again, that's not to say Guild Wars 2 is a bad game, but to me, it's simply innovating in a place that I didn't think needed innovation and adding features I don't care about. It's a game that overfocuses on mechanics that I don't like, set in a world which I'm not that interested for. As I've said many times before, this isn't a question of a boycott. I just literally have no reason to pay money for this.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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GW2 would not be a replacement for CoH, assuredly. It is missing a lot of the main ideas. The genre, gear, ect. It is aimed at a completely different audience to CoH.
I just happen to be in both audiences.
I bought GW2 before the CoH news. I'm not particularly impressed with it so far. I mean, yes, it's an MMO. And the character creation tool is very nice.
But so far I don't see much about it that makes it significantly better than Rift, WoW, or that Star Wars game. The quests are somewhat better than those games, but only marginally. It's still basically "Help Farmer Jill Save Her Chickens" type of stuff where you and the 20 other people nearby are each tasked with killing 15 velicoraptors.
The "events" do work better than Rift's rift events, IMO, but I also think they will suffer the same low participation problem Rift did once everyone levels up and moves out of the newbie areas.
About the quests and this is as I've been told, many actually have consequences. A quest to reinforce a town's defense wall, if not performed, will actually see the town get attacked and even over run.
Think if as a hero, you get an alert that the Skulls are taking over a part of the city. If no one shows up to stop them, they will over run that part of the city. It's not major in the sense that all of the world is forever changed, but its more than, go hunt kill skuls. And your mission header reads: Defeat 10 Skulls in Perez Park. If you decide to skip it and keep levelling on, those 10 Skulls? Nothing happens.
Angry Joe is and always will be my favorite reviewer. Hes funny as hell, and gives a good solid honest review. 
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That's what killed me about the quests, too. I played as a Norn, and almost all of my quests constituted "Go to this idol and do menial tasks to worship the animal of the idol." Tasks went from relatively interesting like raiding a monster mine to save kidnapped lion cubs to the mundane of killing invading critters, to the downright bizzarre like catching fish and feeding it to bear cubs. The story behind them? Erm... I'm honouring the animal spirits. That's about it.|
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
But so far I don't see much about it that makes it significantly better than Rift, WoW, or that Star Wars game. The quests are somewhat better than those games, but only marginally. It's still basically "Help Farmer Jill Save Her Chickens" type of stuff where you and the 20 other people nearby are each tasked with killing 15 velicoraptors.
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Once upon a time, I chided City of Villains - and chided it severely - for having what passes for stories that's actually nothing but time-wasting busy-work. You need look no farther than Angelo Vendetti or Lorenz Ansaldo or the ******* Shadowy Figure. Their stories come out of nowhere, go nowhere and accomplish nothing. They "reward" me with "money" by telling me I've been rewarded by money, but they reward ME - the player - with jack ****. Money, loot, experience... Yeah, being rewarded with numbers is nice, I guess, but consider what classic City of Heroes story arcs reward me with: Story!
A mission reveals that the Skulls are working for the Family, selling drugs to the Trolls. Another mission reveals that the Clockwork King's minions aren't robots at all, but psychically-controlled puppets. Another mission still shows me that Requiem is a hypocrite who pretends to rule the 5th Column with ideology, but is just after power in the end. These are rewards which flesh out the world and give me reason to care. They stem from the game's bountiful lore, they add to that lore and they bring me more of the story such that I have something to care about. I CARE that 50 years ago, America drafted its super heroes, and the shadowy conspiracy that stood behind this "Might For Right" act. I care that Nemesis punked the Freedom Phalanx back in 2002 when he never actually left and spent years building up his armies.
I don't care that the bear spirit's cubs are fed and its shamen are lying in a bloody puddle. I don't care that random rampaging minotaurs are no longer rampaging, despite seeing them off in the distance rampaging away. It's busywork. And it's busywork that never ends. I can clear out an instance and feel satisfied. I can't clear out the overworld because it has to account for other people, so I can never SEE myself accomplishing anything. Sure, the major "personal storyline" quests are top notch, but that's not the bulk of what I spend my time doing.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Angry Joe always tells you exactly what he thinks of something. He makes no bones about giving his opinion, and pointing out the little things that are annoying to gamers like him. You can get him excited with good marketing, just like the rest of us, but if you let him down after he'll be twice as angry about it. His reviews are a useful split from 'professional journalism' with a degree of highly emotive expression. You can't really do what Angry Joe does as an ostensibly professional journalist, and his presentation is excellent. When it comes to reviews, Joe has his own thing and he's a great deal better at it than anyone else could really hope to compete with.
I would highly recommend his reviews. He is, however, a terrible interviewer. He is simply not good at it. He isn't quick and on the button enough, and gets the s*** beat out of him pretty easily by people who know their stuff when it comes to being interviewed. He is also, contrary to his name, actually also a really nice guy in person and lacks the same fortitude in interviews that he has in his reviews; if he tries to force it, you get the aforementioned beating.
Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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Same. Only thing that impressed me were the huge world boss fights, but how are those going to be doing once most the playerbase is high level? Can you handle them on your own as he hinted (that some bosses scale based on how many players are around)?|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I hadn't actually seen the video as it's not up on That Guy With The Glasses, but having seen it now... It's a good review of the game, but I found myself tracing after his points and going "Don't care... Don't Care... Doesn't interest me... GOD that is a bad idea... That's team only... Don't care... Don't care..." and so on. I will freely admit I don't know enough about Guild Wars 2 to judge the game objectively, but if what Joe mentioned is what the game is about, then it quite literally has nothing I want out of a game, and quite a few things I specifically DON'T want out of a game. The "quest" system, for instance, is HORRID. I hate those communal overworld quests.
Again, that's not to say Guild Wars 2 is a bad game, but to me, it's simply innovating in a place that I didn't think needed innovation and adding features I don't care about. It's a game that overfocuses on mechanics that I don't like, set in a world which I'm not that interested for. As I've said many times before, this isn't a question of a boycott. I just literally have no reason to pay money for this. |
I like my "dungeons". I love the indoor mission that I enter, and can entirely clear solo. I loved dungeons in World of Warcraft, hated that they are group only activities and although good looking, only a few per level range.
I rather have constant repetitive dungeons all my leveling career than insanely unique dungeons I must grind through every few levels and again, really dislike overworld quests.
Also: travel. One thing that got me excited about Aion was flying, and the horrible disappointment that it was when I got to fly and see a timer before I dropped to my doom... there is no reason why a fantasy MMO should not allow flying, other than make sure you die traveling to dangerous areas.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I bought GW2 before the CoH news. I'm not particularly impressed with it so far. I mean, yes, it's an MMO. And the character creation tool is very nice.
But so far I don't see much about it that makes it significantly better than Rift, WoW, or that Star Wars game. The quests are somewhat better than those games, but only marginally. It's still basically "Help Farmer Jill Save Her Chickens" type of stuff where you and the 20 other people nearby are each tasked with killing 15 velicoraptors. The "events" do work better than Rift's rift events, IMO, but I also think they will suffer the same low participation problem Rift did once everyone levels up and moves out of the newbie areas. |
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
That's what killed me about the quests, too. I played as a Norn, and almost all of my quests constituted "Go to this idol and do menial tasks to worship the animal of the idol." Tasks went from relatively interesting like raiding a monster mine to save kidnapped lion cubs to the mundane of killing invading critters, to the downright bizzarre like catching fish and feeding it to bear cubs. The story behind them? Erm... I'm honouring the animal spirits. That's about it.
Once upon a time, I chided City of Villains - and chided it severely - for having what passes for stories that's actually nothing but time-wasting busy-work. You need look no farther than Angelo Vendetti or Lorenz Ansaldo or the ******* Shadowy Figure. Their stories come out of nowhere, go nowhere and accomplish nothing. They "reward" me with "money" by telling me I've been rewarded by money, but they reward ME - the player - with jack ****. Money, loot, experience... Yeah, being rewarded with numbers is nice, I guess, but consider what classic City of Heroes story arcs reward me with: Story! A mission reveals that the Skulls are working for the Family, selling drugs to the Trolls. Another mission reveals that the Clockwork King's minions aren't robots at all, but psychically-controlled puppets. Another mission still shows me that Requiem is a hypocrite who pretends to rule the 5th Column with ideology, but is just after power in the end. These are rewards which flesh out the world and give me reason to care. They stem from the game's bountiful lore, they add to that lore and they bring me more of the story such that I have something to care about. I CARE that 50 years ago, America drafted its super heroes, and the shadowy conspiracy that stood behind this "Might For Right" act. I care that Nemesis punked the Freedom Phalanx back in 2002 when he never actually left and spent years building up his armies. I don't care that the bear spirit's cubs are fed and its shamen are lying in a bloody puddle. I don't care that random rampaging minotaurs are no longer rampaging, despite seeing them off in the distance rampaging away. It's busywork. And it's busywork that never ends. I can clear out an instance and feel satisfied. I can't clear out the overworld because it has to account for other people, so I can never SEE myself accomplishing anything. Sure, the major "personal storyline" quests are top notch, but that's not the bulk of what I spend my time doing. |
So the missions/quests are no different than any other MMO including this one. You just prefer the CoH genre.
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Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
So the missions/quests are no different than any other MMO including this one. You just prefer the CoH genre.
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None of the missions in City of Heroes follow that style of overworld questing except for the very few low level missions in newbie zones introduced when we went to free to play.
EDIT: Except for hunt missions, which I forgot about, since they are so easily avoided, and nearly absent from later content.
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All missions/quests in every MMO are the same variation of kill things, click glowies, or solve the puzzle. It doesn't matter if they are instanced or open world, It's all the same. The only difference is the genre/story. If the genre/story is interesting to you, you won't notice the repetitive grind.
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Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
None of the missions in City of Heroes follow that style of overworld questing except for the very few low level missions in newbie zones introduced when we went to free to play.
EDIT: Except for hunt missions, which I forgot about, since they are so easily avoided, and nearly absent from later content. |
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Sure it's sold a lot. It's also buggy as hell with major server issues. Over 15,000 COH players have signed the petition so far. Those are informed and angry customers. Each one is an individual. En masse they represent a lot of income lost.|
Originally Posted by Necrotech_Master
while it is true that the boycott movement is not gonna do much, i still refuse to support them if they kill off this game, i dont care how good guild wars 2 is or how much money its making them, they still lost a potential customer here, and even though ill im only 1 person, if coh does go down i will still start spreading hate of ncsoft saying that they could randomly shut your game down at any time without so much as a warning.
if ncsoft is not willing to sell coh and lets it die, then ncsoft will not receive any support from me and if anything negative publicity in the form of word of mouth and internet posts. right now i am working with all of the other people who are trying to be reasonable with ncsoft to get them to sell coh to either the current devs or the titan network guys, but if they are unwilling to be reasonable then they get no more chances |
1 x 15,000 x $60 = $900,000
That's real money.
Together we entered a city of strangers, we made it a city of friends, and we leave it a City of Heroes. - Sweet_Sarah
BOYCOTT NCSoft (on Facebook)
https://www.facebook.com/groups/517513781597443/
Governments have fallen to the power of social media. Gaming companies can too.
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YOU may think it does not mater, but it makes a whole world of difference.|
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
All missions/quests in every MMO are the same variation of kill things, click glowies, or solve the puzzle. It doesn't matter if they are instanced or open world, It's all the same. The only difference is the genre/story. If the genre/story is interesting to you, you won't notice the repetitive grind.
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If this was like any other MMO, after I take take care of Dr Vahzilok for good... he still spawning in Steel Cannon and I keep bumping into him.
With the current model, you defeat Dr Vahzilok and you dont get to see him again (unless you time travel.)
There are some world spawns that keep popping up, but those are not tied up to the story.
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Unfortunately, as you can see by this thread alone, there are a lot of players that dont feel boycotting NCSoft is something they would want to do. Not only dont they feel boycott is too much for them, but they also are insisting others go give other NCSoft titles a try.|
Originally Posted by Steele_Magnolia
Sure it's sold a lot. It's also buggy as hell with major server issues. Over 15,000 COH players have signed the petition so far. Those are informed and angry customers. Each one is an individual. En masse they represent a lot of income lost.
1 x 15,000 x $60 = $900,000 That's real money. |
Nothing wrong with that, if they like the other games they like them. But it's unfortunate in the sense that you cant claim every signature in that list equates a lost sale, therefore we cant use direct math.
I bought Guild Wars 2 after succumbing to Rock Paper Shotgun's hype rather more rapidly than I was hoping I would. Had I waited a couple days I would have been more hesitant to spend the money on it, which would really have been for the best. It may be the sleekest, most streamlined WoW-alike yet, but boy howdy is it ever one of those.
Who cares how refined it is when there isn't really anything to do? Your character is identical to every other character of the same class and level except as far as your preferred weapon (hint: it's greatswords) and the amount of grinding you're willing to subject yourself to to earn more shinies. Even if you go wild with dungeon loot you're still one of ten thousand spooky clones instead of one of a hundred thousand.
Nothing you do in the game matters and they never pretend that it might matter. Why am I fighting worms in this ice cave? Because a marker on my map said I'd get prizes if I did so. Why are the mole people of Greater Fireland entirely hostile and murderous yet in neighboring Frostburg they comprise the friendly townsfolk? That's a stupid question as none of the NPCs are meant to do anything but provide the expected window dressing to your generic fantasy experience. The story quests are somehow a step backwards from that; if you think it's funny to be trying to save the... world? From dragons I think??? ... because you wanted to be a circus clown but it just didn't work out at level one, the luster may have worn slightly by level 40. As will have the writing, hand-picked and un-crumpled from the dumpster behind Bioware.
The weapon skill system seems fun at first until you realize that your profession realistically has one or maybe two combinations that are competitive in any way and the realization sets in that you are on track to have either four or eight combat skills for the entire game plus an auto attack and some vaguely more varied buffs. Exceptions exist but compared to City of Heroes, mein Gott.
Top it off with one of the grindiest endgames I've personally ever seen and you have a recipe for something that will be forgotten by yours truly before Torchlight 2 comes out. I could have given those sixty dollars to charity, but I guess that probably wasn't likely. Anyone who is on the fence though? Save yourself twenty dollars and buy Dark Souls instead.
Yay!
Angry Joe!
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Out of curiousity, what would NOT be a "Wow-alike" to you? Because as far as fantasy MMO's go, system wise GW2 is about as far from WoW as you can get. The similarities are...doing quests. And thats about it. And even then they are handled in entirely different ways, so it only goes so far as saying "I have to go and do this for this person."|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I bought Guild Wars 2 after succumbing to Rock Paper Shotgun's hype rather more rapidly than I was hoping I would. Had I waited a couple days I would have been more hesitant to spend the money on it, which would really have been for the best. It may be the sleekest, most streamlined WoW-alike yet, but boy howdy is it ever one of those.
Who cares how refined it is when there isn't really anything to do? Your character is identical to every other character of the same class and level except as far as your preferred weapon (hint: it's greatswords) and the amount of grinding you're willing to subject yourself to to earn more shinies. Even if you go wild with dungeon loot you're still one of ten thousand spooky clones instead of one of a hundred thousand. Nothing you do in the game matters and they never pretend that it might matter. Why am I fighting worms in this ice cave? Because a marker on my map said I'd get prizes if I did so. Why are the mole people of Greater Fireland entirely hostile and murderous yet in neighboring Frostburg they comprise the friendly townsfolk? That's a stupid question as none of the NPCs are meant to do anything but provide the expected window dressing to your generic fantasy experience. The story quests are somehow a step backwards from that; if you think it's funny to be trying to save the... world? From dragons I think??? ... because you wanted to be a circus clown but it just didn't work out at level one, the luster may have worn slightly by level 40. As will have the writing, hand-picked and un-crumpled from the dumpster behind Bioware. The weapon skill system seems fun at first until you realize that your profession realistically has one or maybe two combinations that are competitive in any way and the realization sets in that you are on track to have either four or eight combat skills for the entire game plus an auto attack and some vaguely more varied buffs. Exceptions exist but compared to City of Heroes, mein Gott. Top it off with one of the grindiest endgames I've personally ever seen and you have a recipe for something that will be forgotten by yours truly before Torchlight 2 comes out. I could have given those sixty dollars to charity, but I guess that probably wasn't likely. Anyone who is on the fence though? Save yourself twenty dollars and buy Dark Souls instead. |
As for the combat system, I kinda have to laugh at how you pair it down. You get five different attacks or debuffs/CCs based on your weapon, but you also get four more slots for another variety of attacks. Not entirely sure where you are getting "Only one or two will be viable" from, but thats wildly inaccurate to say the least.
Look, I get that you dislike it. I get that you have a chip on your shoulder over NCsofts treatment of Paragon. I myself would not have bought the game if I had known what was going to happen. But don't try to dumb it down to make it look worse. It doesn't do you any favors.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
It's like WoW in that both of them are about delivering a constant trickle of pap that has no risk of offending or exciting anyone. Don't worry, everyone, our game is a safe place for you to log on after work and earn various rewards! You don't like teaming? That's great, we don't want you to have to do any of that! Don't worry about balance, it's been tuned by our team of Swiss watchmakers to ensure perfect adherence to our predetermined curve at all times. Hey, I know your type... you like customizing your appearance, don't you! I've got one word for you: dye! Your chainmail can be a whole rainbow of unique pastels!
Go on, tell me something that was really fun that you did in Guild Wars yesterday. I played for several hours this morning and I don't remember a single thing that happened. Either I've got extra-early onset Alzheimer's or that's because nothing did. Bonus point if you can tell me something that thousands of other people did not do in exactly the same way.
Oh yeah, and I guess you didn't specifically accuse me of this but I'm not trying to boycott NCSoft, I simply would have done a little more research if I'd known what we learned four days later. I boycott NCSoft in much the same way that I boycott EA, Ubisoft and Activision: I don't buy any of their games because they are all the same. This was pretty much the only good MMO by virtue of running unopposed.
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Yesterday? Well, since you asked...|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Go on, tell me something that was really fun that you did in Guild Wars yesterday.
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I figured out how to reach all the vistas in the asuran borg cube. I joined in the beatdown of the giant eldritch abomination in the Queensdale swamp. I wound up trapped in a cave full of unhappy ettins and somehow escaped without dying once. In fact, I had the most fun with my thief by simply attempting to die less often. Though running around Rata Sum with my asuran came a close second.
Admittedly, that was pretty much it, but I spent the rest of the day either at work or RPing on Virtue so there's not much else to tell about.
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
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Since you asked, I tamed several new animals for my ranger, worked my way up to the first ten mark for my first master trait, unlocked the regen-mark for him, explored several new vistas, participated in multiple group quests, including killing the behemoth of the swamp, and hunted down a number of skill points from various equal level areas.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
It's like WoW in that both of them are about delivering a constant trickle of pap that has no risk of offending or exciting anyone. Don't worry, everyone, our game is a safe place for you to log on after work and earn various rewards! You don't like teaming? That's great, we don't want you to have to do any of that! Don't worry about balance, it's been tuned by our team of Swiss watchmakers to ensure perfect adherence to our predetermined curve at all times. Hey, I know your type... you like customizing your appearance, don't you! I've got one word for you: dye! Your chainmail can be a whole rainbow of unique pastels!
Go on, tell me something that was really fun that you did in Guild Wars yesterday. I played for several hours this morning and I don't remember a single thing that happened. Either I've got extra-early onset Alzheimer's or that's because nothing did. Bonus point if you can tell me something that thousands of other people did not do in exactly the same way. |
And that was just on my ranger. I also did several levels as my necro, my guardian, and started leveling a mesmer.
And really? You are NOT trying to bring up teaming in CoH as a comparison, because I soloed the game up to and into incarnate. Not trying to rag on you, or CoH, but that was in no way a single sided comparison, and I seriously hope you realize that. At its current point, you can solo a great deal of what CoH has to offer. How is that any different then what you just said, then? Are they 'taking the safe way' too? Because if that is your reasoning, then CoH is just as much a 'WoW-alike' as Guild Wars 2.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
For the first day or two I was with you on that, Spyral. By "that" I mean that exploratory feeling that you get with a big game. Everquest was what came to mind, in a good way. The times I had running around, uhhh... EverLand with my level 30 magician, who was level 30 for several months right up to my cancellation of billing, were memorable just for the anticipation of what I'd run into next.
Everquest did it better than Guild Wars 2 and one of the many reasons for that is that the fact that you can instantly teleport anywhere takes what could be a pretty big world and shrinks it terribly. The reason they did that, of course, was to make the drip feed more compelling: don't worry, you don't have to walk all the way over to that new story quest, just teleport there in exchange for our carefully measured moneysink tax. That's in keeping with every single major design choice in the game: when ArenaNet had to choose between making you work for something really cool or just giving everyone the same crappy, impossible-to-get-angry-about version of it, they went with option B every time.
The thing about Everquest was that it only took me a few months to realize that I wasn't playing the game the way I was supposed to. I was supposed to be grinding like everyone else. The reason I didn't have to was that they did a bad job balancing the game to require me to. ArenaNet did a very good job of reaching that balance and killed my buzz all the more quickly for it.
Don't read this paragraph, or really anything I've written here, if you don't want to hear some cynicism but today, bored of my level 52 guardian, I looked to my last character slot and wondered what I'd make next. A norn? No, I already ran through those areas on my human guardian. An asura? No, I already... I think you can see where this is going. Why bother? The only real advancement comes with the scaling of Mt. Grind, whose dizzying heights will surely claim many lives in Korean net cafes. Apart from that, everyone and everything is interchangeable. The new game smell is great but when it faded I was left wondering how new this ride really was.
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I blew up a pirate ship made out of bone full of pirate zombies with a steampunk bomb cannon. Then me and a random passer by took down a giant ice golem that randomly erupted from the ground inside a friendly camp. Then I piloted a propaganda spewing mecha and helped a talking mole start a workers revolution. Then I jumped in to save another player who was being swarmed by fire breathing crocodiles who thanked me as I helped him to his feet as opposed to yelling that I 'stole his XP'. Then a giant frog turned me into a pig to hunt truffles while I used my pig super powers of running away and biting to evade angry ogres who also wanted said truffles. Then I found a sword that shot lightning bolts.|
Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
Go on, tell me something that was really fun that you did in Guild Wars yesterday.
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The lack of trade is a huge one, not a minor one, for a game with loot.
Irrelevant though. I am not going to give NCSoft any more money.
The game has been out for about a week, so we probably need to be realistic and see how development continues for a little while - still, fairly smooth launch - just had some security issues due to hardcore phishing attempts the first week.
My new Youtube Channel with CoH info
You might know me as FlintEastwood now on Freedom