The Final Doctor Who thread (expect spoilers!)
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-09-01 24:20 in Comic and Hero-Villain Culture
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That headstone was granite or a granite-lookalike. It didn't show a date of death, iirc, only an age at death. Given the appearance of the headstone, it could've been there for 100 years without showing appreciable wear. Had it been a limestone headstone and still had such crisp lines in the carving, I would agree with you, since that stuff wears away fairly quickly.
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Originally Posted by DarkGob
Um, what? At maximum they only got sent back 60 years. Wasn't the graveyard in modern-day New York?
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Who said they never left New York after they were sent back? They could easily travel all over the world from New York all the while usng their knowledge of the future to become rich and successful off of Wall Street.|
Originally Posted by Agent White
What I want to know is: Why would they stay in new york? They're time travelers and used to being displaced and adventuring. What's this fatalism with "Well the Angels sent me back. I guess I'll just sit down and live myself to death".
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And basing out of New York means they wouldn't have to worry about accidentally interfering with their families and eventually themselves.
I do agree that the whole thing was sloppily written.
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The headstones in the New York graveyard were a good tip off. It's feasible they wandered, but they came back to New York to die. But given how he's written the angels, when they send you back people just.. stay there for no good reason other than plot convenience. Because they 'can't change the timeline once it's written'. |
Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
Who said they never left New York after they were sent back?
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It's just unfortunate, moffat has shown he's capable of writing better time travel fiction.
Frankly, I'm curious what he did to the angel >>
The really sad thing about this episode is that we won't be able to chat about the next one except for possible spoilers since it comes around Christmas.
The first step in being sane is to admit that you are insane.
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The headstones only show where they made their home at the time they died. And being companions they would know that |
Originally Posted by Agent White
The headstones in the New York graveyard were a good tip off. It's feasible they wandered, but they came back to New York to die. But given how he's written the angels, when they send you back people just.. stay there for no good reason other than plot convenience. Because they 'can't change the timeline once it's written'.
It's just unfortunate, moffat has shown he's capable of writing better time travel fiction. Frankly, I'm curious what he did to the angel >> |
a.) If there is a chance of getting rescued the Doctor will return to New York to do it.
b.) The Doctor's punctuality isn't reliable. Amy is after all "The Girl Who Waited" and she's been forced to wait years for the Doctor far too many times.
Now this is only speculation on my part but I figure that most people sent back by the Angels get themselves killed (by interfering with their own timeline and creating a paradox they don't survive for example) or locked up in a looney bin rather quickly because they aren't clever enough to adapt to what happened to them.
I also figure the Angels are limited in how far back in time they can send someone. I suspect you can only be sent back as far as your natural lifespan. So if you were going to live 87 years, you could only be sent back 87 years from the day you were born.
If I'm correct on that, then a person who can assimilate what has happened and can adapt, will use the common sense god gave everyone to avoid bad things that they know happened during the past hundred years (if you are human). Truly exceptional people will (if they are ambitious) either use their knowledge of what is to come to their advantage and become rich and powerful or at the very least very successful, while the less ambitious will live out their lives comfortably.
So Amy and Rory get sent back to New York in the 30's. Where are they going to go? New Yorks probably the safest place to be at that point in time. World War two is just around the corner and Europe and the Far East will be in flames. England isn't going to draft Rory into the military if he's living in the US, and not being Americans Rory is safe from their military as well.
So they live in New York until after the war, but by then it's years have passed and it's home now, and even a person with tiniest knowledge of recent history with common sense can recognize the names of successful businesses from their own time and make enough money on Wall Street to live comfortably.
Actually the angels send you back as far as you would have left to live. They 'eat' the potential of your life. So if you're 56 and you would've lived to 59 they would only send you back 3 years. But if you're like 5 and would've lived to 55, you get shot back 50 years. The eat up what would have been the rest of your life.
So, given Amy and Rory were already 20 something, maybe closer to/past 30 at this point? They got sent backward only about 50-60 years and not the full 80 some years, meaning they dropped past the world wars.
There are ways to justify it, sure, but it still just boils down to 'it happened because I said so'. I mean if we want an actual reason for it we pretty much have to come up with our own.
Plus even if they managed to make it that far back, Amy knows Winston Churchill and knows he can call the Doctor directly. Like there's just way too many holes in the whole "They're lost to the Doctor forever" idea. It just shouldn't have been compressed into the last 5 minutes of the episode :P
I enjoyed the episode a lot, although I have MASSIVE problems with the Statue Of Liberty wandering around New York, even in 1938 and NO ONE noticing it??
Personally, I reckon that Amy and Rory didn't want to be found by the Doctor and my reasoning for that is that they found Melody after she had just regenerated in that alleyway and helped raise her after all, so giving themselves the chance to raise their daughter as they always wanted.
Saying that, I can think of numerous ways they could come back, especially with the 50th anniversary next year. I will be shocked if they don't appear in that somewhere 
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Go here, join up, talk geek stuff by the bucket load |
Originally Posted by starphoenix
The really sad thing about this episode is that we won't be able to chat about the next one except for possible spoilers since it comes around Christmas.
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Unleashed Forums
LOTS of CoH players on there, all very friendly and you can talk games to your hearts content as well.
We built this city on Rock and Roll!
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Oh I agree. The whole plot was very sloppily written with holes you could sail an aircraft carrier thru.
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Actually the angels send you back as far as you would have left to live. They 'eat' the potential of your life. So if you're 56 and you would've lived to 59 they would only send you back 3 years. But if you're like 5 and would've lived to 55, you get shot back 50 years. The eat up what would have been the rest of your life.
So, given Amy and Rory were already 20 something, maybe closer to/past 30 at this point? They got sent backward only about 50-60 years and not the full 80 some years, meaning they dropped past the world wars. There are ways to justify it, sure, but it still just boils down to 'it happened because I said so'. I mean if we want an actual reason for it we pretty much have to come up with our own. Plus even if they managed to make it that far back, Amy knows Winston Churchill and knows he can call the Doctor directly. Like there's just way too many holes in the whole "They're lost to the Doctor forever" idea. It just shouldn't have been compressed into the last 5 minutes of the episode :P |
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Frankly, I'm curious what he did to the angel >>
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Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I liked this "article" on the later adventures of the Ponds. Note the byline of the writer as well.
NOTE: Apparently the link went to a page that set off antivirus warnings. I apologise.
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EU, Union mostly.
I would like to point out the my antivirus triggered when I went to www.quiteunlikely.net, a javascript one. The PNG file is fine however.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
I liked the episode. There's lots of "timey wimey wibley wobbly" things to think about so...I don't... 
It was a good episode though!
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Are you sure? That sounds...|
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
I would like to point out the my antivirus triggered when I went to www.quiteunlikely.net, a javascript one. The PNG file is fine however.
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...quite unlikely.
"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
+1 for you DarkGob!
Leader of The LEGION/Fallen LEGION on the Liberty server!
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Saw this storyboarded unshot scene on Nerdist that was to serve as the epilogue for the episode. It's pretty nice.
@Mental Maden @Maden Mental
"....you are now tackle free for life."-ShoNuff
That ties it up nicely.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Yeah. That's what was missing.
Damnit now I'm crying again.
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Manly tears were shed.|
Originally Posted by MentalMaden
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MANLY I SAY!
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I think I have something in my eye.
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Originally Posted by MentalMaden
Saw this storyboarded unshot scene on Nerdist that was to serve as the epilogue for the episode.[/url] It's pretty nice.
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On Justice
Global @Desi Nova Twitter: @desi_nova Steam: Desi_nova. I don't do Xbox or PS3
What I want to know is: Why would they stay in new york? They're time travelers and used to being displaced and adventuring. What's this fatalism with "Well the Angels sent me back. I guess I'll just sit down and live myself to death".
As I said, just sloppy. It was too sudden and there's like a million caveats that most people could probably figure a way around. instead, it's the actors are leaving so we get a slapshod "This happened. We just have to accept it, be sad, and move on. Look, shiny new companion!"
It really made me think of the X-mas episode with a similar dark depressing ending.