Stop blaming gw2 already!
By
Aggelakis,
Posted on: 2012-09-01 03:18 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
That's actually what I really like about TSW. For a story-driven game, the game doesn't go out of it's way to tell me why I'm doing something (beyond the most general of 'otherwise your boss might detonate the bomb in your spine' motivation). Baring an infamous Dragon faction intro sequence, it doesn't go out of your way to dictate your motives or reactions to anything. This, for me, works because while I'm "forced" to do missions for people, like CoH, I can decide, in the back of my mind, why I'm doing it or what I feel about doing it.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, that part of my problem with it - I just don't like the character I'm asked to play. I didn't like how she looked and I didn't like how she behaved. That's the big problem with "story-driven" games. If I don't like the story, I don't like the game, and the Secret World's story is kind of very specific. City of Heroes was partially story-driven, sure, but I could pick the story. If I didn't like the one I'm offered, I could always pick another. I really don't get why more MMOs don't do that.
|
In contrast, a game like TOR, with its' fancy dialogue has to force these things. Even if it does give you three options to pick from, you are ultimately playing through a game playing some Bioware writer's character.
And while GW2 isn't particular story focused, it does go out of its' way to explain your motivation. And your motivation is, specifically, "I want to selflessly help others". Which grates on me endlessly.
While I love that TOR dared to tell a good story in an MMO, I think TSW found a better balance between "telling a good (and by definition rail-roaded) story" and "leaving your character's personality for the player to decide." Kinda like old-school CoH missions vs. the fancy new dialogue tree ones that I know you love.
Thought for the day:
"Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment."
=][=
Quote:
It's less (for me) upset at the game being finite, because, after all, all things come to an end. It was the fact that, according to everything we ever heard, the game was still pulling in a profit, thus we had a reasonable expectation that the game would continue on for a while.|
Originally Posted by KnightOwl
Maybe someone can explain to me what the problem is with paying for and enjoying something for some non-infinite stretch of time, because I'm not seeing a problem there.
|
It's the sudden and (seemingly) senseless loss of the game, with (so far) no way to move forward or run the game on private servers, etc, that's cutting pretty deep. And NCSoft has a history of doing this a variety of games.
Therefore, I'd rather play with a company that milks a game until it no longer pulls a profit and is dying, so I can see the end coming. Getting blindsided is not my idea of fun. And yeah, it's just a game. I rotate between about ten electronic games and countless tabletop games all the time, so I totally get--just a game! This isn't the end of my world. But MMOs tend to have an emotional attachment I don't get with many other games, and I don't want to gamble with a company that doesn't understand, or care, about the emotional attachment.
Quote:
That may nail why as much as I liked the game play I didn't sub from my trial. For a game with so much customization in the abilities it was pretty locked down in the framework of the character.
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Yeah, that part of my problem with it - I just don't like the character I'm asked to play. I didn't like how she looked and I didn't like how she behaved. That's the big problem with "story-driven" games. If I don't like the story, I don't like the game, and the Secret World's story is kind of very specific. City of Heroes was partially story-driven, sure, but I could pick the story. If I didn't like the one I'm offered, I could always pick another. I really don't get why more MMOs don't do that.
|
City of Heroes was my first MMO, & my favorite computer game.
R.I.P.
Chyll - Bydand - Violynce - Enyrgos - Rylle - Nephryte - Solyd - Fettyr - Hyposhock - Styrling - Beryllos - Rosyc
Horryd - Myriam - Dysquiet - Ghyr
Vanysh - Eldrytch
Inflyct - Mysron - Orphyn - Dysmay - Reapyr - - Wyldeman - Hydeous
As I just explained to someone elsewhere:
I have nothing against ArenaNet (or Paragon, or Carbine). Rather, I no longer trust the company that holds their purse strings, and which may arbitrarily decide at any time to shut down their game(s) because it does not fit their plans, in which doing business outside Asia appears to be at best an afterthought and at worst a nuisance.
You may say that nothing lasts forever, and that I should enjoy it while it lasts. This is true; but with so much loss and uncertainty in my life right now, I'm looking for stability. I need to at least be able to pretend, before I invest time and money in something, that it's not going to vanish out from under my feet a few months or a year later and leave me gasping and treading water. Again.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Quote:
Trying to find comfort in the "nothing last forever" phrase, for this case, is like trying to find comfort in "Pets don't live forever" after having your 2 year old dog shot dead.|
Originally Posted by Megajoule
You may say that nothing lasts forever, and that I should enjoy it while it lasts. This is true; but with so much loss and uncertainty in my life right now, I'm looking for stability. I need to at least be able to pretend, before I invest time and money in something, that it's not going to vanish out from under my feet a few months or a year later and leave me gasping and treading water. Again.
|
The issue is not that CoH is going to die. It’s that CoH is going to die way before it’s time was due, and NCSoft is holding the shutgun.
Quote:
Do you have me on ignore, Sam? |
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
You keep missing my point. I don't want Guild Wars 2 because I don't want a Fantasy game. I don't care what you do to a Fantasy game, it'll simply not be one I want. Arcanum and Final Fantasy are about as far as I'm willing to stretch it, but even then I'm more interested in the non-fantasy elements. Guild Wars 2 is a Fantasy game, and that's not something I want to play.
|
I explained earlier how your description of your ideal FF game is pretty much EXACTLY what GW2 is... I'm not even the only one who did. Not that I think you should play GW2 - it's clear it's not a thing for you - but you pretty much skipped the 2 races that would have made you happiest, the Charr (steampunk iron-tech catmen) and Asura (magic-tech lizard-men.)
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Slaunyeh
That's actually what I really like about TSW. For a story-driven game, the game doesn't go out of it's way to tell me why I'm doing something (beyond the most general of 'otherwise your boss might detonate the bomb in your spine' motivation).
<snip> And while GW2 isn't particular story focused, it does go out of its' way to explain your motivation. And your motivation is, specifically, "I want to selflessly help others". Which grates on me endlessly. |
Your motivation is "the Dragons are destroying the world and I want to find a way to fight them." It starts off smaller, with the influence in your home area, and gets bigger as you join one of the Three Orders and go after Zhaitan's minions. The reason can be up to you - AND like CoH, the storyline is utterly skippable. It doesn't have to mean/say anything about your character, you can just play the game and enjoy killing mobs and gathering crafting materials, if you want. In fact, people have hit max level doing nothing but crafting already.
Even if I wasn't mad at NCsoft I doubt I would want to play GW2 anyway.
I went to my local Game store to see what was on offer now and saw 32 different Fantasy RPG games, 1 super-hero based game, 5 Football type games and misc. /e, sarcasm, Going to go out on a limb here and say GW2 was most definitely what gamers needed.
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
Quote:
The mechanics are what make it special.|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
Even if I wasn't mad at NCsoft I doubt I would want to play GW2 anyway.
I went to my local Game store to see what was on offer now and saw 32 different Fantasy RPG games, 1 super-hero based game, 5 Football type games and misc. /e, sarcasm, Going to go out on a limb here and say GW2 was most definitely what gamers needed. |
The story and lore are pretty good too.
The graphics are phenomenal.
So yeah.
How many different ways do you want to kill an Orc?
Too many 50's to list here's a few you may know.
Slazenger, Area51, Area53, Area54, Erruption, Mind Plague, Thresher, Sheath, Broadside, Debt
or as Penny Arcade said during the height of the WW2 game-fad a decade ago, "Goddamit Now Can We Please Have Another Genre?"
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
Quote:
Admittedly, none of my GW2 alts have dinged higher than 20, but I can factually claim to have yet to see one orc, elf, gnome, or hobbit.
|
Originally Posted by Slazenger
How many different ways do you want to kill an Orc?
|
Blood Widow Ricki * Tide Shifter * T-34 * Opposite Reaction * Shaolin Midnight * ChernobylCheerleader
Quote:
I saw GW2 in action, my best friend has been trying to get me into it (irony, I sold it to him by sending him a video of the character creator, since I know he likes that kind of thing.)|
Originally Posted by Feycat
Do you have me on ignore, Sam?
I explained earlier how your description of your ideal FF game is pretty much EXACTLY what GW2 is... I'm not even the only one who did. |
I see enough of the game to say the steampunk elements are not prevalent enough to make the game not feel like fantasy. It's fantasy. If you are sick of fantasy, there is nothing in GW2 that will convince you to stay.
Final Fantasy (mostly VII and up, with the potential exception of IX) is heavy on technology, to a point where fantasy is just an afterthought. Like constant paintings in the walls of a high tech world. Guild Wars 2 feels the opposite way with its coverage of Steam Punk.
Maybe you can compare GW2 to an earlier FF, like FFVI.
I'm not saying GW2 is a bad game, I'm just saying it is another one in the pile of fantasy games and nearly nothing separates it from the rest (in theme.)
Quote:
I never said it wasn't fantasy. I said it matched Sam's description of what he wanted in an FF game almost perfectly.
|
Originally Posted by Starsman
I'm not saying GW2 is a bad game, I'm just saying it is another one in the pile of fantasy games and nearly nothing separates it from the rest (in theme.)
|
Steampunk is, by its nature, a bit open to genre-crossing. It feels like technology, because it's machines, but by definition, it's very retro technology (by our standards). It lies somewhere in the middle of "modern" and "sword and sorcery", which lets it fit in both if you stretch a little bit.
Its presence in GW2 doesn't make GW2 not a fantasy setting. I mean, really, is anyone trying to claim that? Some of the posts on the last page or two seem to be trying to convince people it's not really a fantasy setting, because it doesn't have Orcs or Elves, and because it has steampunk pseudo-tech. Seriously?
I am a pen-and-paper Dungeons and Dragons player, or at least I used to be until CoH sucked up so much of my time I kind of stopped having time for it. I have nothing at all against fantasy settings, and can really get into a well-written one. That said, a fantasy setting is never going to be as all-inclusive for supporting character concepts as something like CoH has been. CoH basically pulls out all the stops, letting you have fantasy, modern, and futuristic themes. Folks who crave that diversity (or are just spoiled by having it in CoH) aren't likely to be impressed with GW2 on that level, even if it offers some very interesting options.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Y'know...this is all well and good...the game might just be fan-freaking-tastic and all...but I can go to www.ncsoft.com and STILL find advertising for GW2 there. That's all the proof I need to convince me to not play the game.
Never mind that NCSoft pulled the plug on Paragon Studios pretty much without warning. Ten days before the announcement, a new powerset was released. We had all kinds of announcements and news on i24. That evidence alone tells /me/ personally.....NCSoft didn't care to let Paragon Studios know it was canning them until the final day. THAT....is why I'm not buying anything I can find on NCSoft's page.
The ONLY way this would change is if NCSoft sold off the licensing or game engine or both to continue this game....or if it reverses its decision to shut it down and continue the game. That's it. And I -still- might not get GW2.
Quote:
No, I think it's more trying to fend off the "it's just a generic fantasy setting," "It's just like WoW," "It's full of orcs" bullsh!t. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Its presence in GW2 doesn't make GW2 not a fantasy setting. I mean, really, is anyone trying to claim that? Some of the posts on the last page or two seem to be trying to convince people it's not really a fantasy setting, because it doesn't have Orcs or Elves, and because it has steampunk pseudo-tech. Seriously?
|
It really is a cross-genre sort of setting, but sort of in the opposite direction as COH. COH was modern with strong fantasy bits - GW2 is fantasy with some strong tech bits. Both of them blend this stuff into the setting seamlessly, so Croatoa full of fairies didn't feel out of place in the same setting with Steel Canyon, and the Black Citadel and Rata Sum don't feel out of place in the same setting with the Grove.
I think it's more trying to defend the setting from cries of "boring, generic sword-and-sorcery fantasy!" than trying to claim GW2 is not fantasy. I know I certainly didn't claim it isn't.
Personally, I prefer fantasy. Most of my COH characters were based on Amber Diceless characters - quite a few were actual fairies. There's nothing wrong with someone saying "I don't want to play a fantasy game" or "I don't want to play a modern setting game" or even "I want to play a space game!" The problem comes when people say "I don't want to play a fantasy game, therefore fantasy games are boring/generic/stupid." It's not necessary to harsh someone else's squee to have your own.
Quote:
I can see that. I mean, I think I get their point, but it's definitely overstating the case to say that GW2 is just like every other fantasy game out there.|
Originally Posted by Feycat
No, I think it's more trying to fend off the "it's just a generic fantasy setting," "It's just like WoW," "It's full of orcs" bullsh!t.
|
Quote:
| It really is a cross-genre sort of setting, but sort of in the opposite direction as COH. COH was modern with strong fantasy bits - GW2 is fantasy with some strong tech bits. Both of them blend this stuff into the setting seamlessly, so Croatoa full of fairies didn't feel out of place in the same setting with Steel Canyon, and the Black Citadel and Rata Sum don't feel out of place in the same setting with the Grove. |
I'm not trying to rag on GW2 at all. I don't plan to buy it, because I'm not particularly interested in what it has to offer, and because, I'm not interested in supporting NCSoft (except via CoH).
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
Quote:
For the same reason that there's a material difference between Aunt Betty dying of natural causes and being shot to death by a mugger.|
Originally Posted by KnightOwl
Maybe someone can explain to me what the problem is with paying for and enjoying something for some non-infinite stretch of time, because I'm not seeing a problem there.
There seems to be this concept that if you 'buy into' something, like an MMO video game, that it should somehow continue ad perpetuum, and anything less than that represents having the rug pulled out from under you and/or some kind of betrayal by the parent or funding company. |
Quote:
|
I note with some disappointment that the false dichotomy inherent in the "either with us or against us" mentality is not only alive and well, but apparently thriving, even in the context of what action (if any) should be taken against a company for running their business in their own way. I don't have a problem with people doing whatever reasonable action they feel is appropriate, including, perhaps surprisingly, absolutely nothing. To say there's only two possible views to hold regarding the issue is something which I would reject out of hand. |
[Guide to Defense] [Scrapper Secondaries Comparison] [Archetype Popularity Analysis]
In one little corner of the universe, there's nothing more irritating than a misfile...
(Please support the best webcomic about a cosmic universal realignment by impaired angelic interference resulting in identity crisis angst. Or I release the pigmy water thieves.)
I won't blame it entirely got god dangit, it's been a week and they havne't fixed my account so I can play. I'm just bitter towards them is all.
Account got hacked -_-
Fight The Power
The steampunk use does not set the game apart from other MMOs one bit. Clockwork technology used in fantasy games for ages is not much different, and almost every fantasy game from EverQuest to WoW are full of clockwork. Heck, World of Warcraft has rockets!
Lack of certain races is not a big deal either; both online Final Fantasy games did this already (although you can argue elves always were there.)
The world of Guild Wars 2 has its unique spices, but at the end of the day it's the same generic fantasy dish, with only game mechanics setting it apart.
Quote:
Oh no, you're absolutely right about that. I don't think ANY game will EVER come close to being so open about character creation as COH - not just the creator itself and its insane amount of options, but the way the lore let you be just about anything. Mostly thanks to Portal Corp. You could literally drag a character from WoW into CoH and it worked just fine (because both games had cross-dimensional portals.) You could be a fairie, a catgirl, a sapient robot, and it was perfectly lore-correct. You could be an alien parasite and it was actually written into the game lore.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
There's some sort of matter of degrees here, though. I don't know, it doesn't seem as open to, for lack of a better way to put it, origin of power for your characters. CoH's Origins, for all the crap they got, were almost a formalization of the idea that you could (sometimes poorly) categorize where people got their powers from, but the specifics were intentionally vague. Your powers in GW seem to stem from your race, your training/experience, and a few other fairly specific power sources. The ones that do feel more open are very specific to what we would think of in CoH as a single origin, like magic, or a specific kind of tech.
I'm not trying to rag on GW2 at all. I don't plan to buy it, because I'm not particularly interested in what it has to offer, and because, I'm not interested in supporting NCSoft (except via CoH). |
The flexibility of THAT is one thing I'm going to miss with all my heart if we can't save COH.
And I absolutely support people saying "I don't trust NCSoft and I won't support them." I honestly do. I just wish that people wouldn't attack GW2 and those who play it as a means of expressing their discontent. It doesn't have to be a with-us-or-against-us thing. GW2 doesn't have to be the scapegoat. It's perfectly capable to just civilly state you're not interested in the game or NCSoft and that's that.
Quote:
That sucks. They're working on a 72 hour turnaround and lots of folks on Reddit are reporting getting their accounts back. Did you re-prioritize your ticket? |
Originally Posted by Next_Spirit
I won't blame it entirely got god dangit, it's been a week and they havne't fixed my account so I can play. I'm just bitter towards them is all.
Account got hacked -_- |
Quote:
Well I sent a total of 4 tickets due to frusteration without getting a reply. I realized that was a bad thing so I stuck all the info into one socket. Then I got a mass email saying that I cant send them so many messages. |
Originally Posted by Feycat
That sucks. They're working on a 72 hour turnaround and lots of folks on Reddit are reporting getting their accounts back. Did you re-prioritize your ticket?
|
"Hi!
You are getting this mass-email response because you have sent in multiple tickets about the same issue. I promise we're working through all the tickets we've gotten just as fast as we can. I understand you're frustrated and we really want to help as fast as possible, but sending us multiple tickets about the same thing actually might create a delay in getting back a response.
Let me explain. The reason this might cause a delay is because we have to look at every ticket that comes in, in the order they got to us. That means all your extra tickets are actually amplifying our ticket volumes, and causing longer wait times than are actually necessary - not just for everyone else, but for you too!
Another reason we like to keep everything in a single ticket is so we can more clearly see the types of issues that are coming in so we can work on solutions. Some of those problems can be fixed by us directly, and some of them have to be fixed by the studio. So simply put, the less tickets we have to sort through the faster we can organize them and work on solutions.
Company reasoning aside, it really just makes sense to keep all your info in a single ticket. You won't lose your place in the queue, and we'll have everything we need all in one place.
So please help us help you. If you have any information about your issue that you did not provide in your original ticket, go ahead and update that ticket, but don't file a new one. If you don't know how to add it, use these instructions:"
And now, I still wait. It's been a whole week and I got a tease by being able to play the first 2 nights. I am getting close to asking for a refund as it SHOULD NOT take a week for this. But I'm just going to give it a little more time. I'm a little annoyed, I'll be honest.
Fight The Power
Quote:
Right, but did you re-prioritize your ticket?|
Originally Posted by Next_Spirit
Well I sent a total of 4 tickets due to frusteration without getting a reply. I realized that was a bad thing so I stuck all the info into one socket. Then I got a mass email saying that I cant send them so many messages.
|
Quote:
|
Customer Support Our customer support team is prioritizing hacked accounts and other blocking login issues over other types of support requests. Hacked accounts - If you submit a support ticket for a hacked account, ensure it is properly prioritized by following these instructions. We're resolving prioritized hacked account tickets within 72 hours. If you have an older hacked account ticket that has not been resolved, it may not be properly prioritized, or the ticket may not contain enough information for us to address it quickly. Please update your existing ticket, clearly state that this is a hacked account ticket, and provide as much information as possible, including your account email address, your account display name or character names, and your 25-digit ''Guild Wars 2'' serial code. |
I don't trust NCsoft anymore. I don't trust their bussiness capabilities, and I don't trust that my investment in their products mean anything to them but $$. I don't think they've shown any loyalty to their players, and because of that I won't be buying from them. I mean, how do I know that the GW2 NA servers and resources won't be shut down due to shifting production support to GW2 Korea, and with my luck it'd be a day after I buy a $10 something or two off the market.
It's that simple. To me, the smartest decision an MMO consumer can make, right now, is avoid NCsoft.
The Case Against Hardcase- arc id: 438272
Clowning Around- arc id: 408447
Down the Rabbit Hole- arc id: 193055