Stop blaming gw2 already!

"You people?" We're not a homozygous mass.

The people who are swearing at people within THIS community, calling them names, telling them they're "traitors" for playing GW2, telling them directly that they're stupid? Yeah, I call that being a dick.

You left off the 'some of', which obviously indicated I wasn't talking about everyone.

And I have to be honest. I find all the people running around telling others that they have no right to be angry, that they're too stupid to understand how business works, telling them they're traitors for *not* playing GW2, yeah, they're dicks. I don't normally use namecalling, but I've seen too many people on this board acting as though I should just dust off my hands and say, "Oh well, off to invest money and emotion in another NCSoft game with no thought about how that game might end up in the dustbin in the exact same way."

No one has said this that I've seen. At least not in this thread.

I haven't seen any of that.

I've seen people say it's not PRODUCTIVE to be angry, but everyone I've seen has fully acknowledge that folks have a right to "feel their feels." I'm angry too. I'm so angry I can't even sleep at night. But I'm not using that anger to lash out against people in this community, or against people we still need favors from.

There has been some of the "look, this is how business works," posting, but I haven't personally seen anyone say "are you stupid?" though it's been implied in some posts, yes. Regardless, this IS how business works. The media campaign is trying to CHANGE how business feels it's ok to treat customers. The media campaign is the thing that's going to change minds, if anything is. Once you join a boycott - you're no longer a customer, and they can safely write you off.

NO ONE has said anyone is a traitor for NOT playing GW2. Not that I've seen. I've seen people ask folks please NOT to take out your rage on NCsoft on Anet, which needs support as much as PS did, but I've not seen ANYONE saying "EVERYONE GO PLAY GW2 OR YOU ARE BAD!" Seriously.

And you're very wrong if you think those of us who ARE playing GW2 aren't worried about it happening again. NCSoft does this. That's why it's SO IMPORTANT to change in their minds how acceptable it is to shutter a game with no notice. RIGHT NOW we need to be in the position of customers who are being treated poorly, because we are. And if we can actually get them to notice us, if we actually become too big to ignore, we can stop NCsoft from doing this to anyone else, too.

Do you think if SWG had kicked up THIS much fuss, that NCsoft might have had second thoughts about doing this to us? The more players are willing to stand up en masse and say DON'T DO THIS, the most gaming companies have to respect us and take us into account. We don't get respect by acting like spoiled children who can do nothing but call names and hurl invectives.

Talk about inflammatory...

See, this is where emotion really clouds perception. No I have also not seen where anyone has directly said "You are stupid, that is how business works." I can see how a bunch of people who are grieving would take some of the statements as that though.

Really I think most of us are upset, and dealing with it in various ways. Most of us are struggling. I do think some people are just trolling though, or work for NCSoft.

Feycat, you are not one of the people doing this. However there are people that come off as defending NCSoft. However Brillig in particular does come off as defending NCSoft in several threads. I am not the only one who has noticed it.

http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showp...&postcount=393

I agree being openly inflammatory doesn't help the situation, but being condescending doesn't help either. Personally I would ratehr someone say "F YOU!" than for them to just talk down to me. I can reason with someone who I know is being hostile, I just want to punch people who are being condescending in the face.


@Billz, I am drinking cheep beer. Going for the Champagne of Beers this week.

Numbers time! (donning Asbestos suit)

In the 29 quarters from when CoH went live to Freedom, the game had revenues of around $172 million dollars. The game had two box expansions, a monthly subscription of $12-15 dollars and a handful of $10 themed content packs. In exchange we got 20 free Issues of added game content consisting of zones, costumes, power sets, etc. and upgrades to graphics, as well as a PvP system, crafting system, global comm channels, player creatable content, Ouroboros, etc.

In the 29 quarters from when Guild Wars went live, that game had revenues of around $198 million dollars. The game had three box expansions, no monthly subscription and no real content upgrades beyond what was in the paid expansions. So where did their money go? Well how about developing Guild Wars 2.

Two different philosophies. One where you buy the game, pay every month and get treated with regular content upgrades and one where you buy the game, play for free and in X years you get a sequel you can buy. Our game followed a more traditional MMO model, theirs a traditional PC game model of developing sequels.

Look at it this way - we are a community that has frowned on trolls, hatemongering and personal insults for eight years and counting. We prided ourselves on that, after all. I firmly believe that even in our darkest hour, these are the virtues we should shoot for, because this is a large part of what made City of Heroes the experience people remember.

All I've ever preached is moderation and the presence of mind to direct our energy towards productive outlets, instead of sniping at each other.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

I don't disagree at all Sam. I am just saying I understand it.

I don't know, for an "MMO Revolution" it's not that revolutionary. I've seen vastly more original fantasy settings than GW. Of course, being original for the sake of being original isn't necessarily a good thing either.

But exploding on people for having a different opinion than yours is not good form. I tried to interject a little bit of humour in response to that. My mistake. Won't happen again (for all of 10 minutes. Promise).

I'm just glad I never said I was offended.

I think it's less the originality of the setting (though the lore story is quite interesting and gripping to me as a writer, I really enjoyed it - WoodenPotatoes on Youtube has quite a good series on the backstory and to me it's as good as many books I've enjoyed) than the "MMO Revolution" of the mechanics and playstyle involved.

And it certainly isn't trying to be WoW.

But I will definitely leave that for another thread.

I didn't see anyone explode, just stating he is quite wrong.

It's alright - it just appeared to be a troll attempt when I first looked at it - I apologize if that wasn't the case and you were called that.

That's the impression I'm getting, yes. Less of a revolutionary setting - it's Fantasy - and more of a revolutionary "systems" game. Trouble is, I really am not moved by systems very much. I'll play a horrid game with a good story. I'll play a horrid game with awesome visual design. I won't play a horrid game with nothing but good gameplay. I'm driven by concepts and ideas, and "random overworld quests" is neither. It's a game mechanic for people who like games for their mechanics. That's why I have no interest in Guild Wars.

Frankly, I just don't like the visuals or the setting. Yes, the vistas are pretty, but they're forests and deserts. This doesn't inspire me to imagine and create, because pretty much everything that can be done with forests and deserts in a Fantasy setting has been done. "Nature" doesn't interest me, and magical nature only slightly so. Like I said - the only settings I actually like are the one of the little Stitch people, because theirs look more sci-fi and thus something I haven't seen in a Fantasy setting.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

And some people are coming off like their pet was killed by Person "A" and not only wants his pets killed as payback (an eye for an eye justice) but they also want to kill the pets of everyone remotely associated with Person "A" even tho they had nothing to do it.

Well, he did say he likes the little Stitch people (Asura) - but to be fair, all those things still take place for the most part in jungles, deserts, etc.

Frankly, it's sort of a relief on the eyes, for me anyway. Talos, Croatoa, PP and Eden were always my favorite zones visually. But it's not for everyone, and that's cool (and that's totally awesome.)

Exactly, this is what finally decided me not to buy the game.

It would have been difficult to persuade me to buy any more NCSoft products anyway given the way they treated the devs. Had they announced the closure of CoH, explained why, given a run off long enough that people could play out their subs and feel they got value from recently spent points, I'd have felt sad but not borne any ongoing animosity.

Technological pyramids, yes. I LOVE the architecture of the Stitch race. Guns, rifles and traps, however, have themselves been overdone in Fantasy. I don't know if I want to blame Warcraft 3 or Age of Empires 2 or what have you, but black powder rifles are now stock Fantasy. Granted, that electric rifle? I admit, that was awesome. It's not like Guild Wars 2 doesn't have innovative theme elements. I thought the Stitch personal storyline was worthy of a sci-fi movie. It's just that, at its core, it's an "I'm in a forest!" fantasy, and those are a VERY hard sell for me.

I'm waiting for an MMO that isn't about that, and even the Secret World starts me off by sending me into the forest to shoot zombies. Ugh!

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.

Honestly? A non-fantasy setting. That's not a fair thing to say in commentary to a fantasy game, yes, but I'm really just done with fantasy. Have been for 15 years at this point.

If I had to compromise, I'd say Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura. It's still Fantasy, for the most part, but it's industrial revolution fantasy that pits magic(k?) against steam technology, and develops a whole world mythology around the ways technology and magic interfere with each other. It's still elves and orcs and dwarves, but it's an unusual, and at this point pretty unique take on fantasy.

Or if I want to be ambitious, a Final Fantasy VII type world. That setting is basically a Fantasy, with large open fields, magical creatures and even gods, to some extent, but it's also dotted with high-tech cities and comprises a story revolving people finding a way to harness the souls of the dead via "Mako" reactors, thus wrapping both magic and technology into a seamless whole. You don't see that too often, even in other Final Fantasy games, and ESPECIALLY in the Final Fantasy MMOs.

Or Warhammer 40K, I guess, but I hear that turned into a single-player game.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.