How successful has the "Free" model been?
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-18 16:53 in Player Questions
I've spent $100 on top of my monthly sub. I did it to bump myself into T9 right before Celestial disappeared. I still have almost all of the points and most of the reward tokens.
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Originally Posted by Dispari
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Wow that sounds familiar. I'm premium now, but I bought $50 in points before I left "just in case." I also grabbed the Mecha armor, and the celestial wings. In addition, I spent $50 for goodies previously, so about $100 extra since Freedom for me as well.
I'll play a while as Premium but I'm planning on going VIP again, when new goodies from Paragon Studios and maybe a good sale say it's time for more VIP.
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Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Pebble: The only problem with those Quarterlies is that it reflects NCSoft's standings, not Paragon Studios. In fact, it appears as if CoH/V only makes up about... 2% of their revenue stream o_O This kind of concerns me. I mean, unless NCSoft is getting a relatively large return on their investment, 2% hardly seems like a worthwhile number. Hopefully that just means the other games are going GREAT, not that CoH is doing poorly.
Their big sellers are Aion, and L1 and L2. And I'm also concerned that right now, NCSoft isn't turning a profit at all, unless I read those graphs wrong. (Something about a bunch of one-off fees and severance payments gutting their raw profit) Doesn't tell me much about CoH itself =/ |
If by standings you mean CoX's profit margin, then yes those reports have never shown an itemized breakdown of that by game, only company wide. That's why i don't comment on CoX's solvency but all money paid into CoX from customers via subs and mtx is reflected in their revenue number.
Why it's still declining after Freedom we can only speculate.
(Complete speculation to follow: ) I would suspect that more people are dropping to premium once their multi-month subs expire than there are people upping/re-upping to VIP. Also it may be that the using of points is not reflected in that revenue number...only the buying of points does so if there's a bunch of people sitting on points from a bulk purchase from previous quarters and/or the build up from the stipend then that could also be a factor.
(Maybe someone who actually works for an mmo with a cash shop can confirm or refute the part about the points, hopefully)
And yes although i think that's the first quarter i remember NCsoft's net income dipping into the negative (will have to look back to confirm), they did make some acquisitions and investments into some games that are about to release that shows a lot of interests from their betas that could bring those numbers back into the black this quarter.
And although Aion taking a big dip in sales had an effect, it was compensated by an almost equal increase from Lineage1.
The thing about this model is that it works for everyone.
Subscribers obsessed with instant gratification can get everything on demand, even things they would have had to wait years for in the past.
Subscribers who have patience can get anything they want at no extra cost if they just wait until they accrue enough points.
People who can't afford a subscription can pay as much as they can spare to unlock the content they want.
People who only want to play in spurts can easily unlock only as much content as they need, and can eventually unlock most of the game and play for free thereafter.
And we've been getting regular updates and additional power sets and content on a regular basis. It seems like a win all around.
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Originally Posted by Rodion
The thing about this model is that it works for everyone.
Subscribers obsessed with instant gratification can get everything on demand, even things they would have had to wait years for in the past. Subscribers who have patience can get anything they want at no extra cost if they just wait until they accrue enough points. People who can't afford a subscription can pay as much as they can spare to unlock the content they want. People who only want to play in spurts can easily unlock only as much content as they need, and can eventually unlock most of the game and play for free thereafter. And we've been getting regular updates and additional power sets and content on a regular basis. It seems like a win all around. |
You forgot one group. The small but vocal group that wants everything for free and complains about how unfair it is that they have to pay for anything.
Yeah, I think I've paid an extra $100 or so whilst keeping my subscription up.
That's like buying a whole extra game, and I feel like I've had my moneys worth for sure with all the new stuff thats been added. I'm a big fan of the new model.
It makes sense for CoX to adopt this, since I imagine it has a small but loyal fanbase compared to many other MMOs. I imagine its much more common for a player of any comparable sized fantasy MMO to jump ship than for a CoX player, due to the fairly unique genre here. I say "imagine", I may just be projecting, since thats what keeps me here. But I doubt I'm the only one.
My wife and I both have an account. Between the two of us i would say we have spent close to $500 since freedom launched. Since we have a small daughter we don't get to go out very much so pretty much all of our entertainment dollars go to CoH. We are blessed that we are in a position that we can spend so much on CoH and support the game we both love!
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I was still subscribed when Freedom launched and kept my subscription going until about a month ago. Like MightyLornac, I have a daughter but not a wife who plays the game, my time to play was pretty low, so I let my subscription lag. Beyond what I had already paid for my subscription, I would say I have spent about $50.00 since Freedom launched. I still have one unspent token and a couple of thousand points banked for new stuff that comes out. Once I have time or something cool comes out, I see me spending more money for either a subscription or just the points to get the new thing.
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Probably the most telling thing in my opinion about how this change has provided increased funding to the game is the rate of non-critical, QoL and/or requested feature changes have been coming in. It seems that the devs have more manpower to work on things that have been on the back burner for ages. Some of this may simply be a different focus by new staff in the drivers' seats, but I suspect it's more than that, because the rate of delivery seems much higher to me - especially when you consider we're also getting new stuff in parallel.
I'm sure I'm hardly a representative player, but I spent a lot of money on CoH when we went to the new model. I bought a bunch of points on my main account to buy things I wanted, and I also bought a bunch of points on my second account to push it to Tier 9. I'm now less likely to buy points again because I have Tier 9 stipends coming in each month, but I do still maintain two VIP accounts, so while "bursty", my big initial spend was nothing but profit relative to my prior outlay on the game.
For a lot of the things they sell at the prices they sell them for, sale prices of 25% off is tempting, but 50% off is often a "no-brainer", meaning I'll buy most of the stuff they sell at half the usual price, assuming I want it at all. (I won't blink much at things with a base price of 400 points or less - those things don't need to be on sale for me to buy them, if I want them.) Ironically, if they put enough stuff on sale for half off at the same time, I would probably have to buy points in order to buy all the things I was interested in.
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If the way I've spent my allowance is any indication - then free2play has been crazy successful. I spent, I dunno easily $500 + VIP on this game. I just gotta have all the things! 
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I agree.|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Probably the most telling thing in my opinion about how this change has provided increased funding to the game is the rate of non-critical, QoL and/or requested feature changes have been coming in. It seems that the devs have more manpower to work on things that have been on the back burner for ages.
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When they added unique icons for all those vet reward summons I thought to myself "wow, they must REALLY be doing well!"
It's like a homeowner who was just 'getting by' for years suddenly adding a cobblestone driveway and a fountain to the front yard.
"Yeah, we're rolling in it- so?"
Also, another benefit of the FTP model is the return of a player like myself.
I doubt I'd have thought to re-subscribe if the game was still operating on the 'subscription only' model. Having to reinstall and update and all that is enough of a PITA even without having to pony up a $15 cover charge to get in the front door. Plus I still have very limited time for gaming, and who wants to drop fifteen bucks on something they might only get to play for a handful of hours?
But for free, sure I'll set up a download to run overnight and check things out. Now it's a few months down the road and NC has made sixty odd bucks off me they wouldn't have otherwise.
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I know I spent a few hundred on points when Freedom first came out in order to get up to Tier 9 (well mainly Tier 8 for the Remote Auction House but it wasn't that much more to get to Tier 9). To be honest I mostly bought the points for the Paragon Reward Tokens, I did spend some of the points on stuff (mostly extra storage and a few dozen Super Packs) but I'm still sitting on a pretty large stockpile of points.
I have maintained two accounts for years . . . my first started Christmas after launch, and the second was three months later for a wife who no longer plays. Just before Freedom when live, NC Soft offered Premium accounts for $1.99, and I purchased several for my kids who were casual players.
My daughter played for a while, but then moved on to other things. The youngest son would play for a while, then do other things, then come back to CoH. At the end of this summer, he really wanted to go VIP, so I bought 2 months for him. That's the only extra I have spent beyond my 2 subscriptions. I've been through some tough times in the last 18 mos., or I probably would have bought more. (Or maybe not . . . I'm usually a bit of a cheapskate.)
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This is where I am right now too. I've been looking after my elderly father since last fall so I'm at home pretty much all the time. I have the same entertainment budget I always had, but now I don't go anywhere else to spend it, heh. so mostly it goes to board games and paragon points these days.|
Originally Posted by MightyLornac
we don't get to go out very much so pretty much all of our entertainment dollars go to CoH.
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I just added it up: since Freedom launched I've put $700 into the market. Yikes! That number was a shock to see!
When I did the math though, that's only about $15 a week. It's not half what I used to spend at restaurants and going out on the weekends... I'm actually saving money. So overall, considering how helpful this is to me as a pastime right now, I'm more than happy to give them extra cash to get extra stuff in return.To see that this way is possible, and folks who don't want to pay any extra is also possible, and we're both benefitting more than under the old model... yeah I'd call that a success, I think.
I have been continuously subscribed since before Freedom came out, and I have spent an additional $60 on stuff since then. At least in my case, I AM shelling out more money to play City of Heroes than I did before Freedom. Still, as my hobbies go, it's one of the cheap ones.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
And considering that we've been getting new content and new powersets at a decent clip? I'd say it's doing very well overall.
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I think the above is probably the most important part of this. if the "free" model followed, say, what Netflix did, and changed things without providing an immediate benefit i think it would have failed. a couple of freebie players, and a bunch of pissed subs that decided it wasn't worth it. i personally EXPECTED it to go down the tubes, and the best i could hope for was a quick death so i could avoid the lingering cancerous death of my favorite game.
they surprised me, they were seriously on top of ramping up new "stuff" to get the ball rolling on micro transactions, their turnout rate has been good, as long as it's an improvement over the previous pace it shows that they are actually following the path that was laid out to us when it was announced.
i was happy with the change, i leveraged my free monthly points better than i thought i could, and haven't missed anything i wanted yet. i haven't purchased anything extra YET, but seeing as how i just filled my tier8 slots i may buy points to get some tokens, and they BETTER bring the first tier 9 armor set back..... (that is a not so veiled threat there devs).
all in all, i think it went better than expected, for players at least, and hopefully it either continues to follow course or improves. if it does, i'm in it for the duration.
Oh yeah, that was the time that girl got her whatchamacallit stuck in that guys dooblickitz and then what his name did that thing with the lizards and it cleared right up.
screw your joke, i want "FREEM"
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QFT. I quit WoW because I wasn't a raider — I just had no interest in it — but after each expansion release, all new content was just, for the most part, more raids, and more raids. So as non-raider, once I got to the level cap and cleared the soloable content, I was just paying to mindlessly do the same repeatable tasks day after day after day, on six level-capped characters, because there was nothing else to do. I probably would have stuck around and cheerfully paid extra just to have something new to do.
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Originally Posted by Organica
*In general people are much more willing to spend money when it's to buy something that they want. People can get very annoyed when they feel they're forced to pay $15.00 a month and some of that money goes to things they could not care less about... but give them a lot of options, and they find ways to spend more than they might have otherwise.
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I can give you an exact figure. |
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
So, what about the rest of you? Any ideas on roughly how much extra money you've given Paragon Studios ever since the game became "Free"?
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I've given the devs exactly $15 more than they would have gotten from my subscription fee. I wanted Staff Fighting and didn't have enough points banked for it.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
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Posts like this help me not to feel bad about the money I spent on this game. I dont stay home and take care of children, or an elderly parent, but I work 50-70 hours a week and my wife works that and then some so this is my entertainment. I dont spend money on much else outside of this game for entertainment purposes or recreational reasons. Add to that the fact I dont watch a lot of television and this is what I do for entertainment.|
Originally Posted by Triplash
This is where I am right now too. I've been looking after my elderly father since last fall so I'm at home pretty much all the time. I have the same entertainment budget I always had, but now I don't go anywhere else to spend it, heh. so mostly it goes to board games and paragon points these days.
I just added it up: since Freedom launched I've put $700 into the market. Yikes! That number was a shock to see! When I did the math though, that's only about $15 a week. It's not half what I used to spend at restaurants and going out on the weekends... I'm actually saving money. So overall, considering how helpful this is to me as a pastime right now, I'm more than happy to give them extra cash to get extra stuff in return.To see that this way is possible, and folks who don't want to pay any extra is also possible, and we're both benefitting more than under the old model... yeah I'd call that a success, I think. |
Let's see I think I have spent close to $600 - $700 since Freedom went live. And yes that is a quite a chunk of change but I also gave up fast food so I havent eaten at any of those places in well over a year. Those that spend $6 a day three times a week (or more) are outspending me easily!
Freedom got me to re-sub after the last time I quit. I thought "Hey, why not give CoH another spin, since it's free?" and started playing on my old account. It was fun, and I wanted to try some stuff that required either points or VIP status, so I resubbed as a VIP. So far I haven't bought any extra points, but that's still 2 months at $15 each that I wouldn't have spent if free mode weren't available as a teaser.
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No. As someone mentioned. CoH is a far more significant portion of NCSoft's NA/EU market. Quite simply it can't compare to the vast numbers in the Asian market though.|
Originally Posted by EmperorSteele
Pebble: The only problem with those Quarterlies is that it reflects NCSoft's standings, not Paragon Studios. In fact, it appears as if CoH/V only makes up about... 2% of their revenue stream o_O This kind of concerns me. I mean, unless NCSoft is getting a relatively large return on their investment, 2% hardly seems like a worthwhile number. Hopefully that just means the other games are going GREAT, not that CoH is doing poorly.
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Their big sellers are Aion, and L1 and L2. And I'm also concerned that right now, NCSoft isn't turning a profit at all, unless I read those graphs wrong. (Something about a bunch of one-off fees and severance payments gutting their raw profit) Doesn't tell me much about CoH itself =/ |
Is it some huge, triple-A cash cow? No. It never was and never will be.
Is it a nice, steady, easy earner? YEP! And while they certainly wouldn't gripe if CoH suddenly sprouted 30 million paying players, they're not going to pass up easy earnings when the numbers you're talking about end in "millions of dollars"
NCSoft is a business. They simply don't tolerate products that fail to earn money.
Tabula Rasa didn't earn.
Auto Assault didn't earn.
Dungeon Runners didn't earn.
Note where these products are now.
DEAD!
CoH may not be going gangbusters. But it earns.
So long as it keeps doing that, the game remain live and actively developed.
So, in short. Trying to infer ANYTHING about the corporate "health" of the game from yearly earnings, or percentages of yearly earnings, or comparisons to yearly earnings past is a pointless mental exercise.
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If you read the notations that in that presentation you would understand why they lost money that quarter, or as they put it "Be in the red".|
Their big sellers are Aion, and L1 and L2. And I'm also concerned that right now, NCSoft isn't turning a profit at all, unless I read those graphs wrong. (Something about a bunch of one-off fees and severance payments gutting their raw profit) Doesn't tell me much about CoH itself =/ |
One time increase in labor costs due to severance pay (35% Year over Year, comparing 2nd quarters)
Increased royalty expense due to the purchase of developer Ntreev (215% YoY)
Increased box costs due to Aion launching in Japan (32% YoY)
Increased marketing costs due to launch of Blade and Soul in Korea (72% YoY)
Depreciation & Amortization costs related to buying Ntreev (73% YoY)
Ntreev was a casual game company NCSoft bought in mid February this year.
Most of these are meant to be single quarter expenses, except for the royalty expense.
Like I stated earlier, if you go with the premise that 95% or more of CoH income comes from NA and Europe regions, CoH would represents 44% of those regions revenue 2nd quarter. NA and Europe only represents only 5% of NCSoft's revenue by region. It may be a small market but we are a big chunk of it in the 2nd quarter.
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I've spent nothing beyond my VIP subscription (which I get yearly, so ~$13/month IIRC?) since F2P, but in the entire time before that since a couple months after Beta when I joined I'd only spent about $80 on CoV and a couple of packs with actual useful powers in them (I've never bought anything in CoH for just costumes/emotes/etc.). Things are certainly being added to the game faster then I can play them these days, though, and I'm quite happy that they keep adding costumes and emotes I don't care about because it attracts other people to play, and I DO care about that.
I have one friend who, in addition to maintaining VIP, has probably spent about $100 extra since Freedom. Maybe as much as $200, he has everything functional and a lot of decorative stuff.
I have another friend who, in addition to maintaining VIP, has probably spent at least $500 extra since Freedom. I'm not sure how much, but he has every single addition to the game that has ever been released, costumes, powersets, etc., and he never wants to wait for anything, so whatever that would cost.
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Indeed.|
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
So, in short. Trying to infer ANYTHING about the corporate "health" of the game from yearly earnings, or percentages of yearly earnings, or comparisons to yearly earnings past is pointless mental masturbation.
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Amusingly, one forumgoer has built their entire post history off of NC's "numbers".
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