Martial Combat and Martial Assault

Because if they had only melee for secondaries they would be even more fragile and the devs would have no way to tweak them and make them less so. Their current melee+support makes a lot more sense.

I don't remember where it is, but I also saw that video. Controllers weren't in yet, but the other 4 original ATs were.

Edit: Found it through the WaybackMachine on the old City of Heroes website in 2003. Can't view or download it, though. It was called the CoH E3 2003 Demo by Jack Emmert.

Trickshooter's Characters | @Trickshooter @Brightside

Depends on the set. Foot Stomp and Hand Clap, hello?

Still, let the player make the choice if the combo doesn't work. It took them 8 years to adapt a Martial Arts-ey Blaster secondary. I don't feel like waiting another 8 for Dual Blades, SS or StJ. Or Staff or Axe or whatever someone might want. Give us the sets and if they're lame on Blasters, so be it. At least we'd have the option, which we don't now.


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There is an additional hurdle: making animations for a new set is technically easier than making animations for an existing set. For one, every alternative animation must conform to the cast time of the existing power set. In a new set, the artist may end up dictating the cast time of the new attacks.

For this effect to work properly in a blaster, there would have to be eye-blast animations for every single attack in each set that ends up supporting them.

There is a final deal with the "missile". So far we know we can change animations, and we can change the color/tint of the "missile", but an optical blast should not be a fire ball that shoots out of your eyes. It should instead be an ongoing beam that goes from face to target for the duration of the animation.

If the animation already exists, and matches cast time, it's not that hard. If you talking about making a new alternate animation, that gets complex.

I think something like what he says is in the original CoH manual. It also made mention of Tanker's ranged damage capabilities.

Mind you, thats too old and from a time where the devs didnt consider cast time, and all attacks, in their eyes, were about equally good. So the fact that two tanker sets had Hurl was enough to make this claim "valid" at the time.

Not what I meant; he said that myself an other posters said the in-game AT descriptions didn't matter. I have never said that.

Oh most certainly but i seems so odd that they gave ""Hand blast" options for Psi and sonic but not "Face blast" options for all the hand blast sets. Feels incomplete.

Cottage Rule, hello?

They can't uproot the entire blaster secondary so it can be all melee. And they won't introduce all melee sets for blasters because that would go against their i24 goal, which is sustainable damage. It would also be silly.

However, they could introduce a blaster secondary with Super Strength, Staff, or Axe powers in it... eventually. I wouldn't hold my breath though, as the blaster secondary is only used by blasters. We'll see a lot more melee, armor, support, blast, and even control sets before we see more Assault and Combat sets.

What is broken with it?

It isn't pretty.

That's not a fix.

sez u

That's not what the Cottage Rule means.


This isn't altering an existing power and making it do something completely different. Giving Blasters access to the melee attack sets doesn't take anything away from or alter existing Blasters.


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Kind of like how replacing all of the Oxygen in the air with Argon wouldn't change the way we use our lungs, right?

No, he might be saying just to port SS as is as an additional blaster secondary set. Actually, he seems to be saying they could have just done that from the beginning. It is likely he acknowledges it shouldn't be done that way now, but it could have been done that way in 2003.

Since it is likely that is what they did back then, it is probable testing discovered that didn't work so well, which is why they changed it up to add some utility powers to the secondaries. Interestingly, they didn't add enough utility, which is why we are where we are.

Well, not necessarily broken, but the shuriken attacks costs about the same as other ancillary attacks, but have absolutely no secondary effect to go with them, making them rather inefficient powers to use.

The whole pool is kinda a bust. The attacks have no secondary effects, web grenade versus ring of fire is no contest (or any immob that does damage, especially on a Scrapper), Targeting Drone is pretty weak on Scrappers for a decently high End cost, and Caltrops is Caltrops. Basically, the whole Weapon Mastery pool is a bit lackluster, and any other option would be a better choice.

1) As we've seen, the martial-artsy secondary isn't a direct port of melee attacks. They included a blend of powers that reflects the thematic "support" elements of a support set. They'd likely require the same forethought and adjustments for the others.

It doesn't help that with the fact that Blaster secondaries are different from any other archetype's set.... much more different than the minor changes we see in (for example) stalker primaries and secondaries compared to other melee archetypes. That means that developing a blaster secondary only benefits blasters, whereas developing a new defense set can potentially affect several.

2) From a technical standpoint, you'd have two separate weapons for customization (pistols / assault rifle / beam rifle primaries vs dual blade, staff, etc secondaries). I don't think we've seen this before in a set (though i may be mistaken)--- closest thing may be the shield secondary. The UI may not be set to handle custom elements for both- heck, the GAME may not.

3) I disagree with the principle of "make it available and let us decide if its lame." That's a bad development precedent and bound to land them into even more grief with the 'buff Blaster SS NAO" customer cries. You may be satisfied with a gimped-but-at-least-available set, but many others many not. (And then they're also limited by the "cottage rule" on how they fix their gimpy-ness.) Better to wait and do it right.

Maybe now that Pool powers got a pass, Epic/Tertiary pools can get an overhaul.
Namely, expanding on their depth and the number of them for each AT, expanding on the concepts/themes they cover (like letting melee ATs have gun attacks now that Blasters can do martial arts).

Also, I'd love if they would lower their level requirements so they're more integrated with your build instead of an afterthought that doesn't come into play until you're almost 50. In other words, treat them more like a true Tertiary power set that's relatively as important as Primary and Secondaries.


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While this somewhat pains me to say it, this is a neat idea. A weapon secondary would work with a lot of concepts. Imagine your Assault Rifle or Beam Rifle blaster pulling out their Katana to deal with up close enemies by stabbing them in the face.

All of the Blaster secondaries are "elemental" themed. Fire, Ice, Electricy... I'm surprised there isn't a Wind or Earth secondary. Some more "stuff" besides devices might be a cool extension.

Other thoughts: How about a match for the weapons that exist? Like "accessories" for your assault rifle or beam rifle? Bayonets, Energy Blade, Charging (Build Up for BR), High Caliber (Build Up for AR), etc.? We have themes to match the primary for Fire, Ice, etc. but Devices has a different look, some weapons stuff might be cool.

Doing things just for the hell of it that don't match the current design requirements of the game set precedents that are both dangerous and foolish.