Martial Combat and Martial Assault
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2012-08-01 11:32 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
Agreed. Some of the most enjoyment I get from blaster types is due to their mix of ranged and melee. Sure, they have more ranged attacks, but the melee options that are available to them are extremely enjoyable to those that know how to use them judiciously.
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem is, Blasters aren't RANGED ATs, they never were. If they were designed as such they never would have been given melee abilities in the first place.
They are DAMAGE ATs, there is no definition of where that damage is supposed to occur at. You are welcome to play your Blaster at range if that's how you prefer to play it, but saying that they are a ranged AT is incorrect. |
Quote:
And yet, when I use that exact same argument for Tankers, you disagree.|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem is, Blasters aren't RANGED ATs, they never were. If they were designed as such they never would have been given melee abilities in the first place.
|
But, as far as I'm concerned, they should just give Blasters straight up access to all the melee attack sets as secondaries. Why not? I see no need to adapt them in most cases.
Just let them have Martial Arts. Or Street Justice or Super Strength. Yeah, I'm prepared to let Blasters have Rage. It'd be a hoot.
.
Quote:
People suggest tankers are a ranged AT and you have to try to prove they are not? |
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
And yet, when I use that exact same argument for Tankers, you disagree.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
I am compelled be one of the horde of DP/MC blasters in a trench coat.
|
Originally Posted by UberGuy
Oh, man, we are going to have an invasion of DP/MC Blasters in trench coats.
Seriously, though, these sound quite nice. |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
And you wonder why people don't listen to your ideas on 'game balance.'|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Yeah, I'm prepared to let Blasters have Rage. It'd be a hoot.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
I am compelled be one of the horde of DP/MC blasters in a trench coat.
|
... oh crap.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
The problem is, Blasters aren't RANGED ATs, they never were. If they were designed as such they never would have been given melee abilities in the first place.
They are DAMAGE ATs, there is no definition of where that damage is supposed to occur at. You are welcome to play your Blaster at range if that's how you prefer to play it, but saying that they are a ranged AT is incorrect. |
The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut. This hero can deal a ton of damage from a distance. But the Blaster must be careful, because he's somewhat fragile compared to other heroes. The Blaster can't stand toe to toe with most opponents at melee for long. His best defense is a great offense!
The Blaster's power sets are:
Primary: Ranged
Secondary: Support
They are primarily a Ranged Damage AT. Kind of hard to argue that when the game itself puts them in the 'from afar' category.
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
Quote:
I am going to wait to see what I24 has in store. Up to this point, I have very strongly argued that blasters were a hybrid, both melee and range. They will still be that, but the emphasis on the range part has amped up in recent years and the future seems to be emphasizing range as well (but always in motion is the future, difficult to see).|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
They are primarily a Ranged Damage AT. Kind of hard to argue that when the game itself puts them in the 'from afar' category.
|
I am glad to see they are not abandoning the hybrid nature (both /dark and /martial are strongly melee based, and I am happy that /martial has more options for a ranger than /dark), but I am also unsure if they are properly supporting that nature in other ways.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
This is the case with all sets. Except Devices. So that ship has sailed.|
Originally Posted by BrandX
Sadly, Martial Combat will still be better paired with blast sets that aren't Dual Pistols or Archery (or AR or BR), due to redraw
 |
I will note that the proc based Build Up power is much easier on redraw characters.
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
Based on past comments, I suspect Arcanaville may actually agree with me about Blasters with Rage.|
Originally Posted by Nalrok_AthZim
And you wonder why people don't listen to your ideas on 'game balance.'
|
Quote:
|
From Paragonwiki: The Blaster is an offensive juggernaut...{SNIP} |
.
Good. Good. Now... where is my Optic Blast set? I need to make my Cyclops clone already!!!
Quote:
You don't need a full set, just an animation option for sets already there.
|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Good. Good. Now... where is my Optic Blast set? I need to make my Cyclops clone already!!!
|
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
Psi works pretty well.
|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Good. Good. Now... where is my Optic Blast set? I need to make my Cyclops clone already!!!
|
Goodbye. Not to the game, but the players. Goodbye. Everyone, remember to have fun. That's all I can say.
Quote:
No, I refuse to accept this! |
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
You don't need a full set, just an animation option for sets already there.
|
I need my pure Optic Blast set with single target and wide cones. No Targetted AoE. No PBAoE nukes. Pure cones or ST attacks.
Edit:
Besides, the same was true for Street Figthing and Martial Arts or Super Strenght. The same thing would had been achieved with "just" new animations for those sets. But animations are more than half the work, if you get there you may as well also make the full set feel appropiately.
Quote:
Please take your tanker agenda to a more appropriate thread.
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Based on past comments, I suspect Arcanaville may actually agree with me about Blasters with Rage.
When I use the official description of Tankers to justify why Tankers should be "devastating hand to hand combatants" who can "dish out all sorts of damage" you and others say the official descriptions don't matter. . |
Moonlighter
50s include MA/SD, MA/SR, DP/Elec, Claw/Inv, Kat/Dark, Kat/Fire, Spine/Regen, Dark/SD
First Arc: Tequila Sunrise, #168563
Quote:
The Tanker Revolution WILL NOT BE SILENCED!! But perhaps it will move so as not to be a pain in the butt here.
|
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Please take your tanker agenda to a more appropriate thread.
|
Open Archetype Suggestion thread!, Kirsten's Epic Weapon Pools, Feudal Japan, Etc., Alignment specific Rularuu iTrials!
If Masterminds didn't suck, they'd be the most powerful AT in the game.
Quote:
Hey now! He is also proposing SS and Rage for blasters. He is welcome here! |
Originally Posted by Moonlighter
Please take your tanker agenda to a more appropriate thread.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
This is pretty much what Synapse has said every time we have had the conversation. :/|
Originally Posted by Starsman
Besides, the same was true for Street Figthing and Martial Arts or Super Strenght. The same thing would had been achieved with "just" new animations for those sets. But animations are more than half the work, if you get there you may as well also make the full set feel appropiately.
|
Still, more alternate animations would be nice.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
Animations are costly and I think in general they want us to pay for them. I am not sure if it is feasible for them to release Animation packs.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
This is pretty much what Synapse has said every time we have had the conversation. :/
Still, more alternate animations would be nice. |
Spend 200 PP, get 8 alternate animations for Super Strength sounds good to me, but there may be technical and UI issues with that.
So if that is not feasible, making the new animations and tying them to new powersets allows them to reap the benefit of selling them.
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
arbiter hawk said something about alternate animations not being soooo complicated or time consuming to add but zwill didnt like him saying that and they tried to low key it because if only all the players KNEW!!!!! |
Originally Posted by Thunder Knight
No reason it can't be in both (as an alternate animation in both cases). It's not like sets haven't shared animations before.
|
MUAHAHAHAHAHAAH
or something like that.
Quote:
I would drop points on alternate animations in a heart beat. I love the animation for Storm Kick in this set, if I have to pay for it to have it for MA and StJ, I will and not think twice about it.
|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Animations are costly and I think in general they want us to pay for them. I am not sure if it is feasible for them to release Animation packs.
Spend 200 PP, get 8 alternate animations for Super Strength sounds good to me, but their may be technical and UI issues with that. |
Types of Swords
My Portfolio
Quote:
new my foot.|
Originally Posted by Zyphoid
This is pretty much what Synapse has said every time we have had the conversation. :/
Still, more alternate animations would be nice. |
Really they could just port the PSI and Sonic animations to most "elemental" blast sets and you'd be able to shoot all kinds of stuff out of your eyes.
Anyone Who wants to argue about my usual foolishness can find me here.
https://twitter.com/Premmytwit
I'll miss you all.
Quote:
Animations that already exist, of course. The key is the animations need to be the same length. New animations require more effort. But if the new Storm Kick animation is 52 frames and the one MA has is 36 frames, they are not interchangeable.|
Originally Posted by daveyj3
arbiter hawk said something about alternate animations not being soooo complicated or time consuming to add but zwill didnt like him saying that and they tried to low key it because if only all the players KNEW!!!!!
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Premonitions
Really they could just port the PSI and Sonic animations to most "elemental" blast sets and you'd be able to shoot all kinds of stuff out of your eyes.
|
Why Blasters? Empathy Sucks.
So, you want to be Mental?
What the hell? Let's buff defenders.
Tactics are for those who do not have a big enough hammer. Wisdom is knowing how big your hammer is.
Quote:
True story: I once watched a video of jack giving a closed doors presentation of a pre-release CoH at some event. ATs in some form were in at that point, because IIRC he listed them all off. He made a Blaster and was showing off some of the possible sets, and SS was one of the secondaries.|
Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Hey now! He is also proposing SS and Rage for blasters. He is welcome here!
|
I've always wondered why they didn't just let Blasters have the melee sets as secondaries because the stuff like the ST immobs they did put in Blaster secondaries were always so underwhelming to me.
BTW, if anybody knows where to find that video again, I'd love the URL. It's not one of the 'old CoH' videos that usually makes the rounds on the forums and it's been years since I've seen it.
.
I would love to see the shurikens customizable into a whole bunch of different thrown weapons, like knives, darts, throwing axes, chakrams, batarangs, whatever... I don't know if that was touched on in the talk or not, since I've only watched the video muted. Given what I know about the system, I don't think it's likely to be possible to do that, but a guy can hope, right?
Still, I'm glad to finally have a natural option for Doms. I've wanted for so long to be able to make Basilisk as a guy who's just able to petrify at a glance and not really have much else beyond that. So an earth/MA dom is so perfect, especially when I throw in some of the new fighting powers for kicks and punches. I'm looking forward to this.
My story arcs: #2370- Noah Reborn, #18672- The Clockwork War, #31490- Easy Money
Sartre once said, "Hell is other people." What does that make an MMO?
Quote:
Not once in my time on the forums have I ever said anything of the sort.
|
Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
When I use the official description of Tankers to justify why Tankers should be "devastating hand to hand combatants" who can "dish out all sorts of damage" you and others say the official descriptions don't matter.
|
My guides:Dark Melee/Dark Armor/Soul Mastery, Illusion Control/Kinetics/Primal Forces Mastery, Electric Armor
"Dark Armor is a complete waste as a tanking set."
They are DAMAGE ATs, there is no definition of where that damage is supposed to occur at.
You are welcome to play your Blaster at range if that's how you prefer to play it, but saying that they are a ranged AT is incorrect.
Types of Swords
My Portfolio