Discussion: Introducing Tweet Code Thursdays!
By
Absolut_,
Posted on: 2012-07-11 13:32 in News, Events and Announcement Discussion
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No.|
Originally Posted by Snow Globe
No, promotions that use permanently exclusive items annoy the people paying their salaries. That is the bottom line. You don't deliberately annoy your loyal customers to the point where they cease to be customers.
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Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base.
That small percentage chooses to be annoyed, goes far out of the range of logical, rational and reasonable to be annoyed and will always be annoyed at something, no matter what, because being annoyed gives them pleasure.
That small percentage should be ignored. Period.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
But that even smaller percentage, the ones who want to lord their exclusives over everyone else forever, and would be upset if that exclusivity were ever taken away even if it meant more money in Paragon's development budget... those people should absolutely be listened to, right?
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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*high five* A point for Doc!
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Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
But that even smaller percentage, the ones who want to lord their exclusives over everyone else forever, and would be upset if that exclusivity were ever taken away even if it meant more money in Paragon's development budget... those people should absolutely be listened to, right?
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Head's up:
They're going to keep pumping out junk that is in some way 'exclusive' because MMO players really like that kind of thing.
Just so y'all don't stroke out when this keeps happening.
=P
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Well, that's a relief.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
No.
Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base. (snip) |
Oh, out of curiosity, roughly what percentage is that?
And how did you come up with your numbers?
Thanks in advance!
"Strength of numbers is the delight of the timid. The valiant in spirit glory in fighting alone."
- Mahatma Gandhi
Still CoHzy after all these years...
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As an MMO player, I have to say, I don't give a pancake whether an item is exclusive. I care that I can get a given item, not that others can't. And as long as that "some way" an item is exclusive isn't "permanently for no reason other than that some players want to use it to let themselves feel like it somehow makes them better than other players*" I'm actually fine with it.|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
They're going to keep pumping out junk that is in some way 'exclusive' because MMO players really like that kind of thing.
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*And, as a number of us discussed upthread, "we currently have no plans..." or "it could potentially be made available by other means someday" is going to be taken as "this item will be permanently exclusive," because I've learned from experience.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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Nope. Pancake-holes that lord any objects over other humans should be shunned.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
But that even smaller percentage, the ones who want to lord their exclusives over everyone else forever, and would be upset if that exclusivity were ever taken away even if it meant more money in Paragon's development budget... those people should absolutely be listened to, right?
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The developers decide what gets created. That's it. No more, no less.
If they make something exclusive, then that's the end of it.
Everyone excepts reality or not. It's ones own choice to accept reality or let it bother them, barring actual damaged brain chemistry. IMO, people that refuse to accept reality simply should not be allowed to influence others.
As for numbers, the number of players that don't like the exclusives are obviously small enough that Paragon continues to ignore them by giving out exclusive items, so the percentage is small enough not to matter. I'd call that a tiny percentage.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
So... this thread here, the one called "Discussion: Introducing Tweet Code Thursdays," We're not supposed to discuss this here? We're supposed to just suck it up and accept what we're given even if we don't approve of it? The thread wasn't created for the express purpose of allowing players to provide feedback to Paragon regarding this promotion and others like it?
I'd also point out -- also by citing this very thread -- that Paragon has demonstrated recently on at least one occasion that when an "exclusive" draws enough negative reaction, they attempt to make it somewhat less exclusive so as to not anger their customers. It's far from "the end of it."
They're learning.
Which I'll admit is usually an ominous thing to hear, but that's almost always with regard to robots and/or superintelligent apes. With game-development studios, self-awareness is probably a good thing.
FUN FACT: That burst of light when you level up is actually the effectiveness escaping from your enhancements all at once.
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I am giving feedback just like everyone else.|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
So... this thread here, the one called "Discussion: Introducing Tweet Code Thursdays," We're not supposed to discuss this here? We're supposed to just suck it up and accept what we're given even if we don't approve of it? The thread wasn't created for the express purpose of allowing players to provide feedback to Paragon regarding this promotion and others like it?
I'd also point out -- also by citing this very thread -- that Paragon has demonstrated recently on at least one occasion that when an "exclusive" draws enough negative reaction, they attempt to make it somewhat less exclusive so as to not anger their customers. It's far from "the end of it." They're learning. Which I'll admit is usually an ominous thing to hear, but that's almost always with regard to robots and/or superintelligent apes. With game-development studios, self-awareness is probably a good thing. |
Somewhat less exclusive and exclusive are both still exclusive.
I am of the opinion that those who want to be unhappy about Paragon giving away things for free should not be listened to, even if Paragon chooses to make them think they have been.
If you actually think they are learning anything they did not already know, you are deluding yourself.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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You have a strong choice in words for your argument, especially for one with no numbers or actual documentation to back this proclaimed "Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base." Seems to me, it's quite the opposite. The only ones who seem to be happy about the process are ones that actually gain access to said exclusives like Zenlon, who came in here preaching the same speal you are, with nothing to actually hold any ground in his "holier-than-thou" attitude, then later posts a picture of his character with the aura, which was later removed by a moderator.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
I am giving feedback just like everyone else.
Somewhat less exclusive and exclusive are both still exclusive. I am of the opinion that those who want to be unhappy about Paragon giving away things for free should not be listened to, even if Paragon chooses to make them think they have been. If you actually think they are learning anything they did not already know, you are deluding yourself. |
As said before exclusive items no one has a problem with, but it becomes a problem, especially in a MMO that is designed around being flexible with creating your character the way you see them and then enjoying that character. Costume pieces and power sets are what make this happen. When a player has been wanting an item that may seem to be the ugliest aura in someone else's eye for years and now that aura is finally available as an exclusive that he/she will never be able to obtain in any other way then to camp TWITter for a code, that's ridiculous.
Sorry if this sounds rude, but your attitude and approach or opinion on the situation is a bad one, and very rude as well, especially the part about ignoring ANY customer for that matter, that's how you make the word of mouth kill your business.
A few notes, now that the dust has settled a bit.
We sent out nearly 500 codes for the Dark Matter aura between Friday and Monday.
The process was incredibly manual. We have a tool that allows us to track those who re-tweeted the message in time and allowed us to message them directly, but there was no automation.
We were unfortunately unaware that Twitter allowed only 250 direct messages in a day, slowing the process even further.
Many people who re-tweeted the post were unable to receive a code from us for a couple of reasons
- Not following us on Twitter (we can't DM you if you're not a follower)
- Protected account (we can't see the re-tweet if the tweets are hidden)
And even then, there was some confusion as to where to enter the code with people getting error messages when attempting to enter it on the Paragon Market.
Thank you to everyone who participated and special thanks to those who participated and waited a couple of days for their code. We appreciate it.
Jessie Lawrence
Assistant Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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The people proposing that making the items exclusive will hurt the game or it's bottom line have no numbers either. This discussion is all supposition and opinion on both sides.|
Originally Posted by Razai
You have a strong choice in words for your argument, especially for one with no numbers or actual documentation to back this proclaimed "Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base." Seems to me, it's quite the opposite. The only ones who seem to be happy about the process are ones that actually gain access to said exclusives like Zenlon, who came in here preaching the same speal you are, with nothing to actually hold any ground in his "holier-than-thou" attitude, then later posts a picture of his character with the aura, which was later removed by a moderator.
As said before exclusive items no one has a problem with, but it becomes a problem, especially in a MMO that is designed around being flexible with creating your character the way you see them and then enjoying that character. Costume pieces and power sets are what make this happen. When a player has been wanting an item that may seem to be the ugliest aura in someone else's eye for years and now that aura is finally available as an exclusive that he/she will never be able to obtain in any other way then to camp TWITter for a code, that's ridiculous. Sorry if this sounds rude, but your attitude and approach or opinion on the situation is a bad one, and very rude as well, especially the part about ignoring ANY customer for that matter, that's how you make the word of mouth kill your business. |
As for an exclusive item being a problem because of one or more customers not gaining access that desire it greatly, that is what gives the exclusive item it's value in the first place. The whole point of an exclusive item is that not everyone that wants it will get it.
As for sounding rude, I am well aware I am using strong choices for words and that some won't like them. I choose them to make my point anyway. I am not interested in peoples feelings, nor in how I am viewed, especially by those whose opinions I don't really respect anyway. I am well aware my attitude is distasteful to some people. I am not interested in making friends or enemies with some random Internet strangers.
Furthermore, for the record, I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account. I have not and will not attempt to gain anything the company chooses to give out through those avenues as I consider both of them to be pretty pointless and in many cases detrimental to the mental health and personal privacy of people that use them. I will not, however, complain about things being given out through them, exclusive or not. If the company chooses to use them for giving away free stuff, then I say, "Thank you Paragon for giving away free stuff." Period.
It's the incessant whining around these types of giveaways and the people doing the whining that cause me to post, because I cannot stand the level of entitlement behind the arguments against the company doing what in my opinion is a nice gesture.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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Let em release an exclusive power set, I promise this game will be the prime example of my point.|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
The people proposing that making the items exclusive will hurt the game or it's bottom line have no numbers either. This discussion is all supposition and opinion on both sides.
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| As for an exclusive item being a problem because of one or more customers not gaining access that desire it greatly, that is what gives the exclusive item it's value in the first place. The whole point of an exclusive item is that not everyone that wants it will get it. |
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| As for sounding rude, I am well aware I am using strong choices for words and that some won't like them. I choose them to make my point anyway. I am not interested in peoples feelings, nor in how I am viewed, especially by those whose opinions I don't really respect anyway. I am well aware my attitude is distasteful to some people. I am not interested in making friends or enemies with some random Internet strangers. |
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| Furthermore, for the record, I don't have a Twitter or Facebook account. I have not and will not attempt to gain anything the company chooses to give out through those avenues as I consider both of them to be pretty pointless and in many cases detrimental to the mental health and personal privacy of people that use them. I will not, however, complain about things being given out through them, exclusive or not. If the company chooses to use them for giving away free stuff, then I say, "Thank you Paragon for giving away free stuff." Period. |
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| It's the incessant whining around these types of giveaways and the people doing the whining that cause me to post, because I cannot stand the level of entitlement behind the arguments against the company doing what in my opinion is a nice gesture. |
I guess I had to put it in caps so you can plainly see the point for what everyone is voicing (what you assume to call whining). After this promotion this item will not be obtainable. Or did you not understand that?
EDIT: And furthermore it's not about this item at all, it's the principle of these types of exclusives that result in this type of feedback.
Fair warning - keep the thread about the topic at hand. Thanks.
Jessie Lawrence
Assistant Community Manager
Paragon Studios
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Huh? I don't get it. Was first reading through the latest posts, thought it was sarcasm. Are you now really saying that, after 28 pages, more people *like* the idea. I asked on Union Chat, and the SG. 1 person said he wouldn't mind because it's an MMO thing. Many others said they'ld quit if they do that. Even more would at least be angry, and some wouldn't care if it was a *cosmetic* item. But would if it was something else. So I don't see many people that even like it in the slightest. But well, that may be because it's Union...ey? |
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
No.
Exclusive promotions annoy a very small percentage of the customer base. That small percentage chooses to be annoyed, goes far out of the range of logical, rational and reasonable to be annoyed and will always be annoyed at something, no matter what, because being annoyed gives them pleasure. That small percentage should be ignored. Period. |
I don't really get what you mean with people enjoying being annoyed.
On top of that...
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| A certain proportion of your customer base wants to feel special, to have stuff that other characters don't have, or that only a few other characters have. |
So...people want to feel special... and unique... in a game...?
That's just, as someone whos studies behavior science (psychology-ish) I can say that once you need to have the feeling of being "special" in a game is a tad, ehm, wrong.
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Heh this thread went far since my 1st post. I'm happy with the responses given by the devs, if the stuff ever gets available to players who don't want to use social media (so in game, market) then I'm happy.
Also Hit-Streak: You guys have never "dissapointed" me, you can forget stuff I guess. My fear was, and is mainly that stuff would more and more be posted on social media instead of forums.
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uh.. just saw what hit streak said... I started writing 15 mins ago... should I remove the 1st part of my post?
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Exactly.|
Originally Posted by Razai
EDIT: And furthermore it's not about this item at all, it's the principle of these types of exclusives that result in this type of feedback.
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Exclusive giveaways of this type bring out the people that think they are entitled to have an avenue they choose to gain the item in question.
Those people think that they have some sort of inalienable right to these items and argue to remove the exclusivity.
Some people get exclusive items and some do not. Some people have no issue with that and others do. Duh.
IMO those that have the audacity to complain about Paragon giving things away, exclusive or not, are the ones with the problem.
And as to your inference that I made and cancelled FB or Twitter accounts just to get free items, that's stretching pretty far to paint me as a liar, but I have been called worse.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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100% agree. Exclusive giveaways for the very, very, very few players who were at the right place at the right time was a terrible idea when it was taking place at conventions and it's a terrible idea when it's taking place on Twitter. It arbitrarily excludes the vast majority of the players and it's always understandably caused anger, hurt feelings and fights on the forums. What could possibly be the upside of it?|
Originally Posted by Doctor Roswell
Nobody should ever be told "you missed this incredibly-narrow or prohibitively-expensive 'opportunity,' so you can't have this item, ever, no matter what, with no recourse whatsoever until the end of time" unless there's some practical limitation on producing the item (for example, only a limited number were manufactured and it would be too difficult or expensive to make more) -- no such practical limitations exist in a game like this. The code for all of these exclusives is already sitting on the hard drive of every player of this game, waiting to be unlocked. Saying "okay, here's what you need to do to actually use that item you already have" is one thing. Saying, "nyah, nyah, we could give you a means of accessing it, but we just don't feel like it" is quite another.
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I'm a big fan of this game. I think the people behind it do many more things right than wrong. But an idea that is guaranteed -- guaranteed! -- to make most of your customers unhappy is one that should be put out of our misery forever.
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IMO, it is simply silly and immature to truly care about not getting an exclusive item of this type. Wanting it and missing by a few minutes or something? Sure, that could be disappointing. Caring enough to post a complaint or imply that they company should not ever give away free exclusives? Immature.|
Originally Posted by Sebaddon
Huh? I don't get it. Was first reading through the latest posts, thought it was sarcasm. Are you now really saying that, after 28 pages, more people *like* the idea. I asked on Union Chat, and the SG. 1 person said he wouldn't mind because it's an MMO thing. Many others said they'ld quit if they do that. Even more would at least be angry, and some wouldn't care if it was a *cosmetic* item. But would if it was something else. So I don't see many people that even like it in the slightest. But well, that may be because it's Union...ey?
I don't really get what you mean with people enjoying being annoyed. |
I have been a gamer for more than 30 years. I have met plenty of gamers that enjoy their geek rage like a warm blanket. Some humans really just like being ticked off.
"The side that is unhappy is not the side that the game was intended to make happy, or promised to make happy, or focused on making happy. The side that is unhappy is the side that is unhappy. That's all." - Arcanaville
"Surprised your guys' arteries haven't clogged with all that hatred yet." - Xzero45
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And then post a series of posts insulting other players. It is good to add those people to your ignore list, as I will be doing with yourself after reviewing your post history, sir. |
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
I have been a gamer for more than 30 years. I have met plenty of gamers that enjoy their geek rage like a warm blanket. Some humans really just like being ticked off.
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So on the topic at hand, I would like to be considered among those who consider limiting content exclusively to people who can monitor twitter and respond within a five minute window to be discourteous to players who do want the item but are unable to give this level of attention to social networking. Those that don't have a smartphone, and those who have other things they need to do during the business day. If Paragon wishes to give away something for free and then make it available in the store for a high point cost, that wouldn't be nearly as bad.
Suggestion: perhaps instead of giving away things that someone may really, really want for some reason, why couldn't you give away consumables like bundles of super inspirations/booster powers? I suspect that may bother people way less and hey, you've got those in the system already. Doing giveaways of consumables could be a great way to gather interest and make the experience of new players easier.
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/signed I too had to do the same, shame I had to go to his profile to ignore him, giving him a visit to his page, but I rather that then to get into a spat with him and get banned from the forums... |
Originally Posted by Shadowrun
And then post a series of posts insulting other players. It is good to add those people to your ignore list, as I will be doing with yourself after reviewing your post history, sir.
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So on the topic at hand, I would like to be considered among those who consider limiting content exclusively to people who can monitor twitter and respond within a five minute window to be discourteous to players who do want the item but are unable to give this level of attention to social networking. Those that don't have a smartphone, and those who have other things they need to do during the business day. If Paragon wishes to give away something for free and then make it available in the store for a high point cost, that wouldn't be nearly as bad. Suggestion: perhaps instead of giving away things that someone may really, really want for some reason, why couldn't you give away consumables like bundles of super inspirations/booster powers? I suspect that may bother people way less and hey, you've got those in the system already. Doing giveaways of consumables could be a great way to gather interest and make the experience of new players easier. |
Just for the record (and for the interminably ignorant), as someone who got the exclusive item... As someone that has exclusive items (cape of the four winds, prestige power slide)...
I am very much against maintaining exclusivity of such items, mainly for the reasons outlined by myself and others previously - This game's customization, free from game mechanic restraints, is one of its greatest aspects. The ability to bring to life what you can imagine, via options, options and more options should not be curtailed, but continued to be expanded on and on and on (removing further and further limitations towards achieving the character concept any one of us might come up with at any time).
So... not an immature, selfish, entitled brat here... I'm just someone that wants to see everyone have the cool stuff that I have. I didn't do anything special to get it. I just happened to be around when I had a good chance to get them and made the best of that opportunity. Big deal.
@Zethustra
"Now at midnight all the agents and the superhuman crew come out
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
and round up everyone that knows more than they do"-Dylan
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Bundles of consumables aren't permanent visual effects promoting the marketing strategy chosen. Since the goal is to draw eyeballs to the official social media channels, extremely rare costume items are much more effective at achieving it. The only way to get a similar payback is to offer the item for a not-insignificant amount of real money, leading to conversations like: "Oh, cool, you bought the Kirby dots!" "No, I got this $10 aura free in a @CityOfHeroes Twitter giveaway!"|
Originally Posted by Razai
I agree with this proposal even if not consumable why not offer something like a coupon redemption to claim something that is already on the market? Like other costume pieces or whatever.
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For the record, I'm not upset about the promotion. I -- and the members of my SG -- are disappointed to have another item permanently out of our reach, but it isn't the end of the world. But since professionally I'm not allowed to have a publicly visible Twitter account, I'll just have to live with the exclusion.
@Glass Goblin - Writer, brainstormer, storyteller, hero
Though nothing will drive them away
We can beat them, just for one day
We can be heroes, just for one day
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I've got a friend who didn't get a code but DID re-tweet the post within the 5 minute time limit (according to him), IS following you and is NOT on a protected account.|
Originally Posted by Hit Streak
Many people who re-tweeted the post were unable to receive a code from us for a couple of reasons
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(Of course, I got mine on Friday, and I have another friend who did get one Monday.)
Main Hero: Chad Gulzow-Man (Victory) 50, 1396 Badges
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Mission Architect arcs: Doctor Brainstorm's An Experiment Gone Awry, Arc ID 2093
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
it's NEVER too late to pad your /ignore list!
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Wasn't that the exact point of Issue 21? In fact, wasn't that one of the major selling points and the reason for the issue to be called "Freedom"?|
Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Exclusive giveaways of this type bring out the people that think they are entitled to have an avenue they choose to gain the item in question.
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
Those people think that they have some sort of inalienable right to these items and argue to remove the exclusivity.
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- CoH CE
- CoV CE
- Dark Matter Aura
- Coralax Boss Costume
- Seven Years of Super stuff you can't buy access to or get in game.
- Salute to Statesman items.
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
IMO those that have the audacity to complain about Paragon giving things away, exclusive or not, are the ones with the problem.
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It was never about Paragon giving things away. It was about ticking off customers by telling them that they could not eventually purchase items that don't cost Paragon Studios money to make more.
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Originally Posted by MajorPrankster
I have been a gamer for more than 30 years.
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Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters
There is literally zero production cost for something that can make the company money beyond the promotion period. In fact, because of the giveaways, they get further advertising for the item so people can buy the items.
I asked this question of the community team before in this very thread:
About the only people that would be upset over that would be those that like lording the exclusives over others. Is that really the type of customer you want to foster?
Triumph: White Succubus: 50 Ill/Emp/PF Snow Globe: 50 Ice/FF/Ice Strobe: 50 PB Shi Otomi: 50 Ninja/Ninjistu/GW Stalker My other characters