A fight against incredibly strong enemies that most ATs won't be able to beat on their own.
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-06-13 22:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Which Arc is this?
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So you're telling me a Praetorian story arc is uncomfortably difficult?|
Originally Posted by ResidentBaka
Seems like a good way to end a zone arc, let's go with that.
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STOP THE PRESSES!!!
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Night Ward, and also First Ward when I think about it.
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Originally Posted by Issen
Which Arc is this?
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Never had problems with either arc.|
Originally Posted by ResidentBaka
Night Ward, and also First Ward when I think about it.
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Obviously, climactic battles should always be a pushover....
I really should do something about this signature.
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I like to work hard and grind it until I reach the climax as much as the next person, but that final battle was way over the top.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Obviously, climactic battles should always be a pushover....
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Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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I'm the next person, and I don't like to work hard at all.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I like to work hard and grind it until I reach the climax as much as the next person
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Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
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I'm the next person after that and I don't like tough fights forced on me. Isn't that what the difficulty slider is for?
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'm the next person, and I don't like to work hard at all.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Indeed.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm the next person after that and I don't like tough fights forced on me. Isn't that what the difficulty slider is for?
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Raid Leader of Task Force Vendetta "Steel 70", who defeated the first nine Drop Ships in the Second Rikti War.
70 Heroes, 9 Drop Ships, 7 Minutes. The Aliens never knew what hit them.
Now soloing: GM-Class enemy Adamaster, with a Tanker!
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I want you to read this post over again to find out why this was a dumb conclusion to jump to.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Never had problems with either arc.
Obviously, climactic battles should always be a pushover.... |
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'm the next person, and I don't like to work hard at all.
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The difficulty options are actually part of the problem here.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm the next person after that and I don't like tough fights forced on me. Isn't that what the difficulty slider is for?
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For most of the really difficult fights in Night Ward you get NPC allies. Unfortunately the allies are Boss level while the enemies are Elite Boss level.
What this means is that, if you're fighting on the lowest difficulty, and solo, your allies are downgraded to Lieutenants while the enemies remain as Elite Bosses. Leaving you with a significantly harder fight than if you'd had your difficulty set higher.
In other words, make sure to turn on bosses while doing Night Ward, you'll be better off for it.
Main Hero: Mazey - level 50 + 1 fire/fire/fire blaster.
Main Villain: Chained Bot - level 50 + 1 Robot/FF Mastermind.
BattleEngine - "And the prize for the most level headed response ever goes to Mazey"
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This is very true, and it frustrates the hell out of me. In a lot of cases, lowering my difficulty setting actually increases my practical difficulty, so I'm forced to play at higher difficulty setting than I'd like. Take, for instance, last mission from Sister Solaris where I have to defend Cimerora. I played the rest of the arc at -1, so 49, knowing that DA enemies can't spawn below 50 and so it would ensure they're all my level... Except then my helpers themselves spawn at level 49 and die like idiots. I could up my difficulty to +0, but then my enemies would spawn at level 51 and kill ME, and my allies would still probably spawn at 50 and be -1 anyway. I could turn off bosses so the fights aren't as hard, but then my allies would degrade into lieutenants and be no use at all. Yet accepting through help slashes the rewards of that mission down to a third.|
Originally Posted by Mazey
The difficulty options are actually part of the problem here.
For most of the really difficult fights in Night Ward you get NPC allies. Unfortunately the allies are Boss level while the enemies are Elite Boss level. What this means is that, if you're fighting on the lowest difficulty, and solo, your allies are downgraded to Lieutenants while the enemies remain as Elite Bosses. Leaving you with a significantly harder fight than if you'd had your difficulty set higher. In other words, make sure to turn on bosses while doing Night Ward, you'll be better off for it. |
I think I've finally decided to just screw the whole thing, keep it at -1x1, disable bosses and just refuse help. Then I can run it all by myself and not have to worry about allies sinking into the ground, aggroing extra enemies or - as happens practically every time - die mid-way through the mission and leave the BIGGEST spawns for me to fight alone anyway. It'll be harder, but at least it'll be less frustrating.
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Let me be very clear on one specific point: I HAAATE NPC helpers. I've hated them since the Rikti War Zone decided to have three in every PANCAKE mission. Their AI is garbage, they die way too easily and it's impossible to pull with them. I REALLY hate it when my success in a mission relies on NPCs that can die and leave me SOL. At least in the Lazarus TF, if I lose Nosferatu and Brukholder, all I'm really losing help for is one fight, and I can deal with one fight. In the Cimeroran mission, if I lose half my squad because Imperious is an idiot and aggroed two spawns at once, I still have the whole frikkin' map to clear by myself anyway.
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Lowering my difficulty should not make fights harder, and I'd like to have the option to have my fights harder or easier as I choose to make them via the various difficulty options.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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The final battle in the RWZ is significantly harder, since they are scaled down AVs (or actual AVs, depending on settings), and thus have purple triangles.|
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I like to work hard and grind it until I reach the climax as much as the next person, but that final battle was way over the top.
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The final battle in Dark Ward gives you a whole bunch of NPC allies, so even a support type should be able to handle it.
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| What this means is that, if you're fighting on the lowest difficulty, and solo, your allies are downgraded to Lieutenants while the enemies remain as Elite Bosses. Leaving you with a significantly harder fight than if you'd had your difficulty set higher |
If you can't solo bosses, you might as well give up on soloing zone story arcs, since they pretty much all have EBs in them.
I really should do something about this signature.
I have a character that has never left Praetoria: an MA/Elec Armor scrapper. Started the Night Ward arcs at 30.
I adore the Black Nights AoE -25% resist power. Yeah. That makes me happy. Oh it stacks you say? Huzzah! When I fought the 3 or 4 Malaises solo (-1x1) people said "but you have NPC allies". I say "but I don't want to fight through 50+ of some of the most annoying enemies in their level range to get them to the fight". So I dealt with it.
The fight in defense of the Midnight Mansion... yeah... Terrible. Again at -1x1 the individual waves were tough but manageable... mostly. Get a staff in the group when there's a blizzard and it's over. No defense, resists are all but gone, and limited mobility to avoid aggroing other groups. Defeated? No big, just grab some purples from the ... bushes where you rez? Yay! I rezzed in the effect that killed me. :/ Three EB's spawn to end that fight. I only have to defeat one though, and their apparently auto-hit high damage DoT shouldn't be an issue...waitaminnit. Oh and Ward showing up out of nowhere, summoning demons and bending me over? So much fun.
Overall I really liked the story in Night Ward, but I loathe the animus arcana. Every group is almost like fighting the perfect group (buffs, debuffs, healing, ranged dps, and melee dps).
Every NPC "helper" I had with me died a horrible death, leaving me to finish the missions on my own. Some barely made it out of the starting areas before getting beat down. If having them with you is figured in to the difficulty of the mission, then they should not be able to be defeated. Maybe they go down to one knee but after that fight they get up and heal quickly? I dunno. It does seem that they could be of use if they weren't about as tough as a buff pet.
@bpphantom
The Defenders of Paragon
KGB Special Section 8
The answer is simple:
If you don't want to face a range of different tactical challenges, stick to newspaper missions.
I really should do something about this signature.
Not gonna lie. I haven't done any of the Night Ward missions, because I'm generally sick of low level stuff. But what you guys are describing sounds awesome.
ALT TIME!!! 
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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Yeah, the battle to take Bedlam that people are whining about is awesome. You have a whole bunch of Black Knights charging into battle, as well as some who follow you. If you stick with them and support them you get a real sense of army vs army. And it doesn't take long to plough through the enemy hordes.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Not gonna lie. I haven't done any of the Night Ward missions, because I'm generally sick of low level stuff. But what you guys are describing sounds awesome.
ALT TIME!!! |
My only disappointment was the final boss fight was a bit to quick and I didn't feel I had to contribute much - NPC allies did most of the work.
I really should do something about this signature.
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It is awesome. I rolled night ward on my staffer loved it, died a few times but funnest times I've had on below 50 stuff in a really long time. Awesome job devs.
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Originally Posted by EvilGeko
Not gonna lie. I haven't done any of the Night Ward missions, because I'm generally sick of low level stuff. But what you guys are describing sounds awesome.
ALT TIME!!! |
I blew through First Ward and Night Ward on my beam rifle/darkness manipulation blaster. To end off First Ward I even fought the final boss as a full AV.
Granted, the fights through Night Ward were a bit tougher than I would normally expect, but with some kiting and liberal use of inspirations you'll muscle through it.
TPN trial guide video / MoM trial guide video / DD trial guide video / BAF trial guide video
/ Lambda trial guide video / Keyes trial guide video / Magisterium trial guide video / Underground trial guide
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I just took the NPC allies to the wall next to the line of BK's guarding the asylum, jumped over it like a punk, and headed to the Malaises from there.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Yeah, the battle to take Bedlam that people are whining about is awesome. You have a whole bunch of Black Knights charging into battle, as well as some who follow you. If you stick with them and support them you get a real sense of army vs army. And it doesn't take long to plough through the enemy hordes.
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61866 - A Series of Unfortunate Kidnappings - More than a coincidence?
2260 - The Burning of Hearts - A green-eyed monster holds the match.
379248 - The Spider Without Fangs - NEW - Some lessons learned (more or less.)
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Yep, so turn it down to -1 and try again.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm the next person after that and I don't like tough fights forced on me. Isn't that what the difficulty slider is for?
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"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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That won't do anything about Elite Bosses being Elite Bosses, which is the real problem. I don't think i would have died that much less at the end of Night Ward facing two Yellow EBs at once as opposed to two Orange EBs.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
Yep, so turn it down to -1 and try again.
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My concern is about Incarnate content, which I'm already playing at -1. It doesn't make the enemies considerably easier since they can't spawn at 50-1, but it makes my allies considerably weaker since the CAN spawn at level 49. Did you not read the post where I outlined this?|
Originally Posted by Arilou
Yep, so turn it down to -1 and try again.
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*edit*
And that's not just an Incarnate problem. Setting a mission that you're supposed to win with NPC help to -1 does not make it easier. Yes, the enemies are easier, but your NPC help is weaker, too. And as luck would have it, your allies will spawn at -1 while your enemies will still spawn even con anyway. At least that's how it works for me, more often than not.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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I agree with the OP. Night Ward, First Ward, DA, are very tough challenges. Whcih is fine when I break out my brutes, but doing those with lesser capable characters? No thanks.
For example, in Night Ward, the first mission of Magister. Even with my npc friends, I needed 4 lucks, 4 break frees, 4 damage inspirations tobeat them. This on a Brute. On a blaster I would not even try and ignore the whole NW as the plague.
Sure you can fo them with incarnates and tricked out IO monsters. But try again with a level 30 will you and just SO's?
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I'm no ace player, but seriously, if you can't fight EBs, you aren't doing it right. CoH is easy.|
Originally Posted by Miakis
That won't do anything about Elite Bosses being Elite Bosses, which is the real problem. I don't think i would have died that much less at the end of Night Ward facing two Yellow EBs at once as opposed to two Orange EBs.
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Balancing all content for lowest common denominator players is not a good way to go.
I really should do something about this signature.
Seems like a good way to end a zone arc, let's go with that.