A fight against incredibly strong enemies that most ATs won't be able to beat on their own.
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-06-13 22:41 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
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I've done First Ward with a Blaster, arguably the most squishy AT in the game. Didn't think it was particularly difficult.|
Originally Posted by Gunbunny
I agree with the OP. Night Ward, First Ward, DA, are very tough challenges. Whcih is fine when I break out my brutes, but doing those with lesser capable characters? No thanks.
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My cat can do it with a Brute.
I really should do something about this signature.
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I think you have your threads mixed: the final one is agains Lamashtu and Sorceress Serene not Bedlam's Malaise(s).|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
Yeah, the battle to take Bedlam that people are whining about is awesome. You have a whole bunch of Black Knights charging into battle, as well as some who follow you. If you stick with them and support them you get a real sense of army vs army. And it doesn't take long to plough through the enemy hordes.
My only disappointment was the final boss fight was a bit to quick and I didn't feel I had to contribute much - NPC allies did most of the work. |
Also, my so called support was wiped out pretty much instantly by Sorceress Serene (Nightmaster, Katie Douglas, Ward and I don't know if the Coyote is supposed to do anything...) Thank carrots I had a signature summon BABs on hand after she creamed the floor with me the second time.
Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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Darn it, my innuendo was too subtle...
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Originally Posted by Tenzhi
I'm the next person, and I don't like to work hard at all.
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Rabbits & Hares:Blue (Mind/Emp Controller)Maroon (Rad/Thermal Corruptor)and one of each AT all at 50
MA Arcs: Apples of Contention - 3184; Zen & Relaxation - 35392; Tears of Leviathan - 121733 | All posts are rated "R" for "R-r-rrrrr, baby!"|Now, and this is very important... do you want a hug? COH Faces @Blue Rabbit
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No, but balancing content for the lowest common denominator on the lowest possible difficulty setting should be. After reading this thread, I guess I'll give Night Ward a pass.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
I'm no ace player, but seriously, if you can't fight EBs, you aren't doing it right. CoH is easy.
Balancing all content for lowest common denominator players is not a good way to go. |
--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
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No, I meant people are also whining about the Malaise fight.|
Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I think you have your threads mixed: the final one is agains Lamashtu and Sorceress Serene not Bedlam's Malaise(s).
Also, my so called support was wiped out pretty much instantly by Sorceress Serene (Nightmaster, Katie Douglas, Ward and I don't know if the Coyote is supposed to do anything...) Thank carrots I had a signature summon BABs on hand after she creamed the floor with me the second time. |
Where you playing with "no bosses", or more than x1?
Because my allies managed fine. They went down eventually, but not towards the end of the second stage, while I was briefly incapacitated.
I really should do something about this signature.
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As the difficulty scales at the moment, it's not possible to scale EBs down, which would mean removing all EBs and AVs from all soloable content. And ambush spawns. And mobs that move. And pretty much anything that can fight.|
Originally Posted by NuclearToast
No, but balancing content for the lowest common denominator on the lowest possible difficulty setting should be. After reading this thread, I guess I'll give Night Ward a pass.
--NT |
I don't want my fun spoiled because, basically, people can't play.
I really, really can't imagine how anyone could be so bad at this game as to find finds EBs difficult...
I really should do something about this signature.
*edit*
You know what? Forget it. Anyone who resorts to a variant of "learn to play" as the sole argument is not worth arguing with.
I stick to my guns - difficulty should be up to the player to choose.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Originally Posted by Blue Rabbit
I like to work hard and grind it until I reach the climax as much as the next person, but that final battle was way over the top.
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"You don't lose levels. You don't have equipment to wear out, repair, or lose, or that anyone can steal from you. About the only thing lighter than debt they could do is have an NPC walk by, point and laugh before you can go to the hospital or base." -Memphis_Bill
We will honor the past, and fight to the last, it will be a good way to die...
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Agree.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
I'm the next person after that and I don't like tough fights forced on me. Isn't that what the difficulty slider is for?
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That last fight defending the Midnight Mansion was super long and super lame. The few zombies they gave to help out were laughably ineffective and died as if made of tissue paper. Too many ambuses, too many EBs, too many ways to lose interest.
Pretty sad as most of the other arcs were pretty good.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
I did find the final arc fights tough but not insurmountable with enough inspirations and a Shivan or two. But I do agree that difficulty should be up to the player to decide.
Oddly enough, the thing that killed me most was the fact that I played both First and Night Ward on my Warshade and both of them are full of enemy groups that love to go 'poof' once they're defeated, leaving no bodies behind. For a Warshade, that's a killer! I need more corpses dammit!
Less wispy disappearing things! More dead bodies! 
@Dante EU - Union Roleplayer and Altisis Victim
The Militia: Union RP Supergroup - www.themilitia.org.uk
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Pretty much anyone that's used the "learn to play" defence has never used the "crank difficulty to 11" to satisfy their desire for "my fun". =I= should learn to play so =they= don't have to up the difficulty.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
I don't want my fun spoiled because, basically, people can't play.
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Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
I really, really can't imagine how anyone could be so bad at this game as to find finds EBs difficult...
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--NT
They all laughed at me when I said I wanted to be a comedian.
But I showed them, and nobody's laughing at me now!
If I became a red name, I would be all "and what would you mere mortals like to entertain me with today, mu hu ha ha ha!" ~Arcanaville
I think the answer to this is simple
anyone who says they should be easy to beat should be given an AT and powerset combo, no vet power, no temp powers, SO's only, and inspirations allowed (the normal ones that drop).
they can play through with those requirements and then decide.
I am fine with learn2play as an argument. There is a minimum competence required to the game.
but get temp powers, use IO's, get vet powers, or play a different character are not learn2play, they are get more power.
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Mostly agree, but I still hold that Trapdoor is NOT difficult if you bring a tray of reds. I'll be running Night Ward with the only character i took through First Ward, my Ill/Time controller.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
but get temp powers, use IO's, get vet powers, or play a different character are not learn2play, they are get more power.
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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illusion control is an uber powerset|
Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
Mostly agree, but I still hold that Trapdoor is NOT difficult if you bring a tray of reds. I'll be running Night Ward with the only character i took through First Ward, my Ill/Time controller.
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time is a good powerset
illusion/time controller is not in any way a weak AT or powerset combo
I did not find First Ward to be too challenging. But that does not mean on an elec/ice blaster it isn't.
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No, getting these powers is part of the game.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I think the answer to this is simple
anyone who says they should be easy to beat should be given an AT and powerset combo, no vet power, no temp powers, SO's only, and inspirations allowed (the normal ones that drop). they can play through with those requirements and then decide. I am fine with learn2play as an argument. There is a minimum competence required to the game. but get temp powers, use IO's, get vet powers, or play a different character are not learn2play, they are get more power. |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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...Do you see now why that's the ONLY build I ran through First Ward?
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
illusion control is an uber powerset
time is a good powerset illusion/time controller is not in any way a weak AT or powerset combo |
Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Emphasis added.|
Originally Posted by Blood Red Arachnid
I blew through First Ward and Night Ward on my beam rifle/darkness manipulation blaster. To end off First Ward I even fought the final boss as a full AV.
Granted, the fights through Night Ward were a bit tougher than I would normally expect, but with some kiting and liberal use of inspirations you'll muscle through it. |
Just about everybody I've seen who complains about the difficulty of missions set in Praetoria has this in common: they fill up their inspiration tray, stack them neatly by color so that they look just right, and then never touches them. Or, at most, they only use green inspirations to heal.
There is almost nothing in City of Heroes you can't beat with 3 Lucks and a Break Free. City of Heroes has cheap "potions" with no cooldown, people. (Balanced by a very low stacking limit compared to other MMOs, I grant, but still.) Use your inspirations. There's a reason why the Inspirations Full light on your toolbar turns red: if it fills up and stays full, you're deliberately playing at a higher difficulty setting. The game is balanced (for most characters) around the assumption you will use your inspirations about as fast as they drop.
tldr; version: lrn2play, noob. And I'm not generally one to say that.
(That being said, I do think that the Animus Arcanae and the new Banshee and Siren mobs from the Talons are too generous with AoE debuffs for mere minions and lieutenants.)
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While I kind of agree, that only matters in teams: When soloing there's no difference between AOE and single-target debuffs (except for defence purposes)
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Emphasis added.
Just about everybody I've seen who complains about the difficulty of missions set in Praetoria has this in common: they fill up their inspiration tray, stack them neatly by color so that they look just right, and then never touches them. Or, at most, they only use green inspirations to heal. There is almost nothing in City of Heroes you can't beat with 3 Lucks and a Break Free. City of Heroes has cheap "potions" with no cooldown, people. (Balanced by a very low stacking limit compared to other MMOs, I grant, but still.) Use your inspirations. There's a reason why the Inspirations Full light on your toolbar turns red: if it fills up and stays full, you're deliberately playing at a higher difficulty setting. The game is balanced (for most characters) around the assumption you will use your inspirations about as fast as they drop. tldr; version: lrn2play, noob. And I'm not generally one to say that. (That being said, I do think that the Animus Arcanae and the new Banshee and Siren mobs from the Talons are too generous with AoE debuffs for mere minions and lieutenants.) |
"Men strunt �r strunt och snus �r snus
om ock i gyllne dosor.
Och rosor i ett sprucket krus
�r st�ndigt alltid rosor."
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...Unless you play a mastermind.
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Originally Posted by Arilou
While I kind of agree, that only matters in teams: When soloing there's no difference between AOE and single-target debuffs (except for defence purposes)
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Deamus the Fallen - 50 DM/EA Brute - Lib
Dragos Bahtiam - 50 Fire/Ice Blaster - Lib
/facepalm - Apply Directly to the Forehead!
Formally Dragos_Bahtiam - Abbreviate to DSL - Warning, may contain sarcasm
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Originally Posted by Shubbie
Im very good at taking a problem and making it worse.
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Masterminds don't exist as far as 'balancing' goes.
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Originally Posted by DarkSideLeague
...Unless you play a mastermind.
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Chairman of the Charity of Pain; accepting donations of blood and guts.
Prophet of the Creamy Truth; "If it's empty, fill it with cream."
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This.
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Emphasis added.
Just about everybody I've seen who complains about the difficulty of missions set in Praetoria has this in common: they fill up their inspiration tray, stack them neatly by color so that they look just right, and then never touches them. Or, at most, they only use green inspirations to heal. There is almost nothing in City of Heroes you can't beat with 3 Lucks and a Break Free. City of Heroes has cheap "potions" with no cooldown, people. (Balanced by a very low stacking limit compared to other MMOs, I grant, but still.) Use your inspirations. There's a reason why the Inspirations Full light on your toolbar turns red: if it fills up and stays full, you're deliberately playing at a higher difficulty setting. The game is balanced (for most characters) around the assumption you will use your inspirations about as fast as they drop. tldr; version: lrn2play, noob. And I'm not generally one to say that. |
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If you're ever curious about why you aren't a game designer, I'll be sure to mail you a copy of this post.|
Originally Posted by PRAF68_EU
The answer is simple:
If you don't want to face a range of different tactical challenges, stick to newspaper missions. |
Quote:
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Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
Emphasis added.
Just about everybody I've seen who complains about the difficulty of missions set in Praetoria has this in common: they fill up their inspiration tray, stack them neatly by color so that they look just right, and then never touches them. Or, at most, they only use green inspirations to heal. There is almost nothing in City of Heroes you can't beat with 3 Lucks and a Break Free. City of Heroes has cheap "potions" with no cooldown, people. (Balanced by a very low stacking limit compared to other MMOs, I grant, but still.) Use your inspirations. There's a reason why the Inspirations Full light on your toolbar turns red: if it fills up and stays full, you're deliberately playing at a higher difficulty setting. The game is balanced (for most characters) around the assumption you will use your inspirations about as fast as they drop. tldr; version: lrn2play, noob. And I'm not generally one to say that. (That being said, I do think that the Animus Arcanae and the new Banshee and Siren mobs from the Talons are too generous with AoE debuffs for mere minions and lieutenants.) |
The problem is that I, as a Stalker, was detected as soon as I entered the area. They saw through my hide, and instantly one of my biggest sources of damage was kind of null. I used my inspirations, but as soon as I got one of the EBs low on health they took to the sky.
They also hit like trucks, and soundly wiped out my NPC support almost before the fight even began.
I don't normally have trouble with any of the content in this game, but lately they seem to want to make every fight "epic" by giving enemies big damage and big health pools. I'm not averse to challenge, but I am averse to frustration and doubly so in a video game where the idea is to have fun with your time, not struggle against numbers.
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Yes, there is - NOT HAVING three licks and a break free. It's always the same story in these threads. Eventually we get to the subject of inspirations and someone goes on a self-righteous tirade about how the people complaining must not be using all of their tools and so on.|
Originally Posted by InfamousBrad
There is almost nothing in City of Heroes you can't beat with 3 Lucks and a Break Free.
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OK, so what's your advice when I'm staring down a spawn of 12 bosses, a neat mix of Cyclops and Minotaurs plus Nictus Romulus Plus a Keres, and all of my NPC helpers are dead and my inspiration tray is completely empty? Go buy more? OK, so I go by more and go through pretty much all of them in the next two spawns. Now what? Go buy more? Right, how many times per mission do you envision me zoning out of the instance and trekking half-way across a zone to do this? My machine loads fast, but it doesn't load that fast.
Then the argument inevitably turns around to what I'm doing with all these inspirations and how I can possibly be using them all despite me often having to blow through four lucks AND some greens to get through one large spawn out of, say, the seven I need to get out of Mot's belly after the bank (incidentally, there's no leaving this mission before it's done unless I die). Then it turns from a problem of me not using enough inspiration to me using too many inspirations and the argument loops back to "learn to play."
As long as people continue to ignore the actual complaints made by the people complaining in these threads and instead chastise them for complaints no-one ever made, then I will continue to dismiss "learn to play" arguments out of hand.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Cheat.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
OK, so what's your advice when I'm staring down a spawn of 12 bosses, a neat mix of Cyclops and Minotaurs plus Nictus Romulus Plus a Keres, and all of my NPC helpers are dead and my inspiration tray is completely empty?
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I have not done Night Ward yet as such. But I helped a person do a "final battle" his words when he requested assistance. On my fire/rad controller it was easy with his help and a knight.
I have done First Ward with a dp/rad corruptor. The whole thing was painful but doable. I don't recall bosses being particularly tough - the waves were tough because I could not kill them fast enough.