Why aren't you playing a kheldian?
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-06-01 11:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
I *am* playing a Kheldian. 
I have several PB's at various levels, one of which is an Incarnate. I play him
regularly, and some of the earlier "experiments" occasionally. I also have a couple
others that I want to respec and get back to playing again in the future.
I have a WS as well, which I'll eventually dual build as an MF'n Shade on one build
and a Human Only (per Alien One's approach) on the other build.
Their videos sold me enough on shades to PL one to L50 and (eventually) give
their styles a try, but I'm really a PB kind-of-guy, and have been playing those
since they were released. 
And, I agree with the other experienced Kheld players on the following points.
1> The mark of a "true" Kheld is getting to the point where Quants/Voids/Cysts,
are no more dangerous than any other mob. Since the devs dialed them back (years
ago), that's been easier than ever. We don't fear them, we *hunt* them.
2> I, like Bill, have never encountered a team (post-I4 or so) that wouldn't
accept a Kheld on the team, and most teams are happy to have them for their
versatility.
Regards,
4
I've been rich, and I've been poor. Rich is definitely better.
Light is faster than sound - that's why some people look smart until they speak.
For every seller who leaves the market dirty stinkin' rich,
there's a buyer who leaves the market dirty stinkin' IOed. - Obitus.
- Too much knockback in their powers.
- The look of Nova Form isn't appealing to me.
- Are -very- expensive to build/slot.
- Very High learning curve, especially when going Tri-Form.
- Storyline feels like Citadel TF all over again. And again. And again.
Because Peacebringers are terrible and Warshades, while awesome, require a lot more work to play. Hitting keys bound to all the shapeshifting antics you have to do and keeping those fluffies out full force and all that jazz up, foosh it takes some work.
I'm not playing them cause I'm on the forums instead of the game.
Seriously, if the shape shifting is the issue, that can easily be taken care of as stated in earlier posts. Now I admit to liking my WS (human form only) more than my PB (bi-form) but that could be due to being on a server that I havn't played on as much as I used to and not teaming with him much when I do play it, not for any prejudiced reasons, just bad timing on team finding. Though I have been thinking of trying a PB again on my home server, maybe try it as a human-form.
Thanks to everyone that helped make me a welcomed part of the community, and for giving me over 3 years of some of the best gaming I've been able to take part in. May the next game bring many friendships and maybe reconnect to some old CoH friends.
Just to address a few:
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Try a Warshade. The powers *are* different in most cases. Gravitic Emanation is the big (humanform) knockback - along with the nuke, of course - and it's generally looked at as a useful positioning and stunning tool. There's nothing like Dawn Strike, Radiant Strike, or Photon Seekers - instead, you get damaging self-buffing PBAOEs and ranged pets. |
Originally Posted by Paradox Fate
- Too much knockback in their powers.
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There's more difference between the two than just color. Give a 'shade a try.
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| - The look of Nova Form isn't appealing to me. |
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| - Are -very- expensive to build/slot. |
Now, if you wanted to say *difficult* to slot, I'd agree they can be, especially if you go triform. Triform on SOs/commons can be very difficult - but it's a heck of a learning experience that can only help with your other characters. And if you don't do IOs before, learning about frankenslotting, then set bonuses (both of which help, *especially* frankenslotting) to help offset that slot crunch - again is something that you can carry through to your other characters.
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| - Very High learning curve, especially when going Tri-Form. |
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| - Storyline feels like Citadel TF all over again. And again. And again. |
Or just ignore it, or space it out more. OK, it's council heavy, I'll grant, and that can get to be a bit much for some people. Understandable. Then again, there's reason for that, given the Nictus hiding behind the Council and their plans for both the Kheldians and for Earth. (Of course, you get some unique Freakshow, too....)
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My days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Soooo.... don't take nova or dwarf. They are optional. Otherwise it's like saying "I don't take any travel powers because I hate how Jump Kick looks."
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Re: Peacebringers| Why aren't you playing a kheldian? |
Solar Flare
Damage is anemic
No full melee chain in Dwarf or Human
Ranged chain is pitiful
No access to Air Superiority
Re: Warshades
They're pretty groovy but I prefer playing my other characters.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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It's a valid point, though, if one of your arguments for not playing the AT is a skippable power. Thus my (rather extreme, admittedly) counterexample. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
My days of not taking you seriously are coming to a middle.
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To put it another way, what would you say to someone who said they wouldn't play scrappers because they didn't want to have to take Confront? Probably the same thing I said - "Then don't take it."
And I'm not trying to pick on you (or anyone else putting their arguments for why they don't play them forward.) But if I see reasons for not playing what I consider to be a fun pair of ATs that are fixable or perception issues, I'm going to try to correct that.
For instance, your other comment about it being some "alien thing and not your character," while right after it you follow up with "I can ignore the uniform on SOAs." (Which unless you've purchased slots you can't for the first 10 levels.) If you think about it, what's the difference? Don't take the forms, ignore the story line, and there's nothing keeping you from saying you're - say - an entity from anti-paragon who fell into this world and strengthens themselves from their enemies. For the SOA, ignore the uniform, ignore the story and do your own thing.
I have heard people make the same complaint, by the way, about "having" to take nova. They quite honestly thought they would be forced into taking the form(s.) When they found out they didn't (and I had to log in a humanform PB for one of them before they'd believe me,) some decided to go ahead and try them.
Basically, I don't want people ignoring what can be a fun pair of ATs because of incorrect information. Or ignoring one because they think the other's just a differently colored version and there's no other changes.
I play a WS and the KB to KD IO will help make my WS be even better.
I don't play a PB because it does too much KB. I'm hoping the KB to KD IO will improve things enough so I can play it again.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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I want an IO that will transfer other peoples KB to *my* powers! >.> And then one that will let me transfer the extra KB over to whatever EvilGeko is playing, just to see if I can get him to do a Kirk-esque "Khaaaaaaaaaaannn!" in response. |
Originally Posted by newchemicals
I play a WS and the KB to KD IO will help make my WS be even better.
I don't play a PB because it does too much KB. I'm hoping the KB to KD IO will improve things enough so I can play it again. |
(OK, serious question though... putting the IO on the shade where, gravitic? Or one of the Nova blasts? Just out of curiosity, since KB is usually a PB complaint, not a shade complaint.)
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You're not the only one. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Still stuns. Still takes a significant amount of health out of the character.
Your mileage may vary, but that's what I encountered. |
And, despite what Bill may say every time, I STILL find Cysts a pain in the rear, and they can and will utterly wipe a team if you're not careful. Good for him that he's never had that, but it DOES happen, and it has and it can suck when the screen gets filled with purple death. I have pics to prove it.
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Really? Honest question, are these lowbies or maybe new folks who have oddly slotted characters? If not, I'm expressing genuine surprise, because these never seem like a big deal to me.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
And, despite what Bill may say every time, I STILL find Cysts a pain in the rear, and they can and will utterly wipe a team if you're not careful. Good for him that he's never had that, but it DOES happen, and it has and it can suck when the screen gets filled with purple death. I have pics to prove it.
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A long time ago, a Cyst definitely used to be a big deal, particularly because their explosion was hideously dangerous. But that was nerfed a long time ago. I can imagine them being scary mixed with certain things - having 3-4 Rikti Guardians all give the summoned fluffies Accelerate Metabolism or something could be ugly, but in general, folks I play with them roll over them.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That is not what I said. Please re-read.|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
You're not the only one.
And, despite what Bill may say every time, I STILL find Cysts a pain in the rear, and they can and will utterly wipe a team if you're not careful. Good for him that he's never had that, but it DOES happen, and it has and it can suck when the screen gets filled with purple death. I have pics to prove it. |
I have never said I haven't had a team wipe from a cyst. (Though I haven't in quite some time, honestly.) It would be rather silly of me to do so when I have a screenshot I'd posted some time ago here of one that gave trouble. (Which is also one of the last times I remember it happening. If you look at the filename, it's from 2006.) It'd be rather silly of me to say something ("I've never had a cyst wipe a team," which is what it sounds like you're saying I said) that I myself have provided proof against, now, wouldn't it? (And please don't count the *exploding* cysts in Cim as "cysts causing a team wipe," as that has nothing to do with Khelds, only squishies standing next to things that explode.)
If you'll re-read, I said I haven't had a Kheld rejected for teaming (or kicked) because of them, or been on a team on another AT that had that happen, ever. Or heard someone mentioning it in chat. And that *is* true.
Is this thread caught up in some kind of strange Dr. Who like time warp continuum or something?
Or maybe it's people that have not played like in YEARS like thread title says cause the complaints I am seeing are from like 2-5 YEARS ago and don't fit in with the changes made since then.
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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confront is not a core ability of scrappers.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
It's a valid point, though, if one of your arguments for not playing the AT is a skippable power. Thus my (rather extreme, admittedly) counterexample.
To put it another way, what would you say to someone who said they wouldn't play scrappers because they didn't want to have to take Confront? Probably the same thing I said - "Then don't take it." |
I would liken it more to someone playing a stalker and not using hide, or a dominator and not using domination.
you do not need to use them, but they are main features of the AT.
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The WS gets much of its damage from fluffies. Yes, it will go in one of the AoE KB attacks. GE since I like the stun and it looks nice, but too much KB.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I want an IO that will transfer other peoples KB to *my* powers! >.> And then one that will let me transfer the extra KB over to whatever EvilGeko is playing, just to see if I can get him to do a Kirk-esque "Khaaaaaaaaaaannn!" in response.
(OK, serious question though... putting the IO on the shade where, gravitic? Or one of the Nova blasts? Just out of curiosity, since KB is usually a PB complaint, not a shade complaint.) |
I'll be happy to give you all my KB just trade me your KD and we will both be happy.
H: Blaster 50, Defender 50, Tank 50, Scrapper 50, Controller 50, PB 50, WS 50
V: Brute 50, Corruptor 50, MM 50, Dominator 50, Stalker 50, AW 50, AS 50
Top 4: Controller, Brute, Scrapper, Corruptor
Bottom 4: (Peacebringer) way below everything else, Mastermind, Dominator, Blaster
CoH in WQHD
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Except Nova is not a core ability of a Peacebringer or Warshade. Unlike your other two examples, you are not crippling yourself by not using it. It is an *optional* power. (And arguably a Stalker can get away without using hide with the current changes, though I wouldn't recommend it.) Human-form Khelds are completely viable - not viable as in "playable with a lot of work" like, oh, a petless Mastermind or an all-power-pool build. I mean a complete, perfectly normal and effective build and playstyle.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
confront is not a core ability of scrappers.
I would liken it more to someone playing a stalker and not using hide, or a dominator and not using domination. you do not need to use them, but they are main features of the AT. |
Nova is purely a build option that leads to the AT playing a bit differently. As you yourself say, you don't play them. So your experience and perception on this are, honestly, off. (Not saying that to put you down, to be clear, just pointing out that you're seeing it completely from the outside by your own admission and getting the wrong idea.)
The only time I'd say a build is potentially weakened is if a Warshade doesn't take Dwarf, and that's purely from missing out on another Mire. Even then, though, I wouldn't call it a "core" ability.
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I've tried a couple, they just don't do it for me|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
I have them unlocked. I've never even tried one.
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I'm not a big RPer, but my characters do all have a concept, backstory & way they interact with the game world that has to satisfy me if I'm to keep playing them beyond the first few levels.
Kheldians don't allow much room for that.
And it's not a performance issue, because I have the same attitude toward Banes & Widows, which are by all accounts quite powerful.
In RPG terms, playing one of the 'epic' ATs is like having the GM hand you a character sheet at the start of a campaign and that's never been my scene.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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I have to ask - why exactly do you feel Khelds don't allow for your concept, backstory, etc? |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
I've tried a couple, they just don't do it for me
I'm not a big RPer, but my characters do all have a concept, backstory & way they interact with the game world that has to satisfy me if I'm to keep playing them beyond the first few levels. Kheldians don't allow much room for that. And it's not a performance issue, because I have the same attitude toward Banes & Widows, which are by all accounts quite powerful. In RPG terms, playing one of the 'epic' ATs is like having the GM hand you a character sheet at the start of a campaign and that's never been my scene. |
Genuinely curious here. Do you feel you *have* to go along with the Kheldian War storyline? Where even if you ignore it you "feel" like it's still there pushing you? (Kind of like some badgers tell me they "have" to get a badge, even if it's from doing something they don't like.)
Is it that you feel you have to take Nova/Dwarf?
Is it that you can't color the powers at this time? (Which may seem minor, but I get it for people not liking not having that customization.)
Is it the set powersets? (That is, unlike a Scrapper that can be one of several types of Scrappers, a Kheld is going to have a fixed set of powers to choose from.)
Just curious.
(And yes, I know I'm responding to practically every post, but it's a discussion about two of my favourite ATs, so I do actually want to know these things. Don't assume I'm saying "you're wrong" if I'm asking things like this - I'm not.)
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you are not crippling yourself not using domination or hide. You lose out on major effects, but you are not crippled.
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Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Except Nova is not a core ability of a Peacebringer or Warshade. Unlike your other two examples, you are not crippling yourself by not using it. It is an *optional* power. (And arguably a Stalker can get away without using hide with the current changes, though I wouldn't recommend it.)
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Does not using Nova form cripple your PB or WS? I've been playing Khelds since around i11 and the only time I use Nova is in PvP...I never felt crippled playing all human form in PvE due to the versatility and being able to build these toons multiple ways.|
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
you are not crippling yourself not using domination or hide. You lose out on major effects, but you are not crippled.
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Everyones experience is different obviously, whats yours?
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Maybe I give it a try with a Warshade, though it seems to be hard to get into it.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Try a Warshade. The powers *are* different in most cases. Gravitic Emanation is the big (humanform) knockback - along with the nuke, of course - and it's generally looked at as a useful positioning and stunning tool. There's nothing like Dawn Strike, Radiant Strike, or Photon Seekers - instead, you get damaging self-buffing PBAOEs and ranged pets. |
Hope i got the patience for it. But thanks for the clarifications here.
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Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
you are not crippling yourself not using domination or hide. You lose out on major effects, but you are not crippled.
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And you're not crippling yourself not using Nova. Human form is a viable build, it's not seen as "weak" or "unusual" like, say, a petless mastermind would be. In fact, it's a fairly standard build.
Wait, i'm not? Damnit, why didn't anyone tell me this earlier?! i was so certain that my Warshade counted as a Kheldian that i didn't even realize.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...
Why am I not playing my Kheldians? Two reason:
A) When last I played them last year, the game was being very unkind at the time and deleting/modifying my button macros at random times.
B) I have a terrible case of alt-itis.