Why aren't you playing a kheldian?
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-06-01 11:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Superman was an alien and he most definitely was/is a superhero so I don't get that argument at all. Lots of the comic book villains and heroes were aliens and/or derived their powers via alien technology of some kind as well.
I've made exactly one each of a Peacebringer and a Warshade. I played them in tri-form years ago before IO's. I respecc'ed them both when IO's became available. I even made use of the various exploits with HO's that were supposed to make Peacebringers about even-par with Warshades.
But in the end, I just didn't find the jack-of-all-trades nature of either AT to be all the much fun. I like excelling at something on a team. Whether its holding aggro, max damage output, boss killing, lockdown or what have you I like min/maxxing my builds to do one thing very well. I never felt that was possible with the Kheldian AT.
So for me, they both got deleted in favor of other toons (after I gutted their IO's of course by burning every freespec they had accumulated). Even with the recent buffs, I still find them...lacking definition. I always felt like I was "pretending" to be a blaster (squid), a tanker (lobster) or a scrapper (human). It just didn't jive for me....felt very subpar to anything else I could possibly be playing. And when I found myself constantly wishing I was more of a blaster/tanker/scrapper, I realized hey...I can be. So I quit pretending and went and played the real thing.
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And as I look at that window, I see no LFG tab (pre issue 20,) but a dual pistols character. (Issue 18.) |
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
That thing resulted in many team wipes. Happy bloody fun times.
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Now, if this is YOURS, you've been around long enough to, oh, *ASK* how to deal with these if you don't remember. You've got a ranged character. A tray with enough spots where enough purples to zip through an encounter wouldn't be an issue, even with the rest of the mission. Being ranged, you wouldn't need many.
You've been around long enough that you would have seen before how to deal with a cyst. In fact, asking for a tank (something ELSE getting right in melee) would possibly be a bad idea - but I don't see you mentioning a single thing about that in chat, just how to take a screenshot to "prove" how bad these are and reinforce your "OMG these are evil I hate khelds." Deliberately? I doubt it. But quite honestly I think you've gotten to the point where seeing one just short circuits any logic, any "this is how we can deal with it" in favor of "oh, god, cyst, we're all going to die multiple times."
Which, to me, is reinforced by the fact your reaction is not saying "OK, bad first attempt, we need to do this when we get back," which I'd expect from an experienced vet, but "I need to get a screenshot for the forums!"
Now, can they be placed badly? Sure. Anything can. You can have an AV right at the corner that one (well, two) shots a squishy before it can do anything as well.
Here:
- Tell people to grab purples on the way back.
- Keep people back.
- Pull the Tuatha out of the way, especially the lt/boss so his quicksand doesn't gut defense. Ignore the nictus - pull them back far enough and they die out anyway.
- If the Kheld's a triform or human, send him in (with purples.) Especially with dwarf. Either way he's going to have resists to the attacks. *A* tank, brute, or scrapper goes in - limiting what spawns. Everyone ranged is *at* range. Not within range, *at.*
- They ignore the nictus, concentrating on the cyst. You've got a snipe - anyone else with one can help out. Cyst should go down quickly.
- Either ignore or rain/AOE on the Nictus to clear them out - who, again, will by dying off without the cyst anyway.
All of which I'm sure you'll promptly not do next time you see a cyst.
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ummm, no, unless you blindly run into mobs like an idiot they are no threat at all
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Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Creole just pointed out how your argument is invalid, Khasei. Again, your Kheldian build is probably amazing, you've probably got plenty of negative energy resistance stacked into it, but an average player, taking a Khelidan of the box, is going to encounter the Quantum Energy attacks and not enjoy getting full thirds of their hitpoints getting zapped out of them, getting stunned and then pummeled to the floor by the rest of the goon squad.
The changes DID NOT make the Quantum enemies irrelevant. It made them manageable. It still takes work, effort and a little luck to manage them for the average player, though. |
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it would be like making 'Kryptonian' its own AT with all the same powers & weaknessess Superman has.|
Originally Posted by CyberGlitch
Superman was an alien and he most definitely was/is a superhero so I don't get that argument at all.
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Except that would be super popular, since players love being invincible... =P
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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This is what I and others have seen quite a bit of, especially with the speed of teams these days. Outside of that they are well handled for sure.
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Originally Posted by G_Savior
ummm, no, unless you blindly run into mobs like an idiot they are no threat at all
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The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
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Well, thank you recognising my experience and then promptly bloody ignoring it, Bill. Christ, do you realise how condescending you sound at times?|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
Which, to me, is reinforced by the fact your reaction is not saying "OK, bad first attempt, we need to do this when we get back," which I'd expect from an experienced vet, but "I need to get a screenshot for the forums!" Now, can they be placed badly? Sure. Anything can. You can have an AV right at the corner that one (well, two) shots a squishy before it can do anything as well. All of which I'm sure you'll promptly not do next time you see a cyst. |
This wasn't 'Oh well, first run with bad luck, we'll deal with it this time'. And I say we, because this was on a team. This was after about the third or fourth team-wipe, DESPITE tactics and aiming for the Cyst and all the other, common sense stuff.
It was also after the thing kept coughing up more Nictus like it was going out of fashion.
So, yes, that was indeed me grabbing a screenshot for posterity of how bloody annoying Cysts can be if you have a bad day.
Edit: Frankly, though, I still love playing Kheldians. I just dislike how everytime someone mentions Voids/Quants/Cysts in a negative context, people just spawn out of the woodwork to lambast them for not being particularly fond of something that CAN cause problems if you have some bad luck (Or are low enough level for them to be a genuine hassle, or the player is relatively new, etc) It's the principle of the thing...
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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This thread is giving off the sort of vibe usually found in "why don't you PVP" threads, where all reasons for not enjoying it are met with variations of LRN2PLAY & LRN2BUILD.
a big attraction of this game for me is it's really really easy.
you can *make* it complicated on various levels if you like, but generally the out of the box experience is you get to run around feeling super with pretty much whatever you play.
This isn't the case with Kheldians, or at least wasn't my experience with them and judging by this thread I'm not alone.
Whether or not that can be worked around or confounded by planning & skill is irrelevant- it presents a play hurdle other ATs don't suffer from.
As always when these sorts of threads pop up regarding unpopular ATs the question shouldn't be why don't you like/play X? , but what changes should be made to X so people will like/play it?
You can't browbeat people into liking something they don't think is fun.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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And yet, if it's the third or fourth attempt... why are there Tuatha still around instead of pulled back out of the way so they aren't adding to the problem? Especially what looks like a Bres, which can drop quicksand which *will* lower both speed and, more importantly here, defense?|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Well, thank you recognising my experience and then promptly bloody ignoring it, Bill. Christ, do you realise how condescending you sound at times?
This wasn't 'Oh well, first run with bad luck, we'll deal with it this time'. And I say we, because this was on a team. This was after about the third or fourth team-wipe, DESPITE tactics and aiming for the Cyst and all the other, common sense stuff. |
This doesn't *look* like the very entrance of those caves - pull, move, let the Nictus filter back or die off as you deal with the Tuatha.
I'd ask what the rest of the team makeup was, but it has been a few issues going by the UI, so it'd be a fairly pointless question.
You say you used tactics, etc, but what I'm seeing in here looks (stressing looks, here, as I obviously wasn't there) like repeated "bum rush it" attacks, to be frank. If this is after repeated attempts, why do I see (for instance) two nicely stacked awakens? Why weren't those dumped when you went to the hospital for some lucks? The blues and greens I can see, of course.
It's stuff like that that makes me say you saw the cyst and just short circuited to "we're all going to die" instead of actually stopping and saying "this is what we need to do." Call that condescending if you want (though it isn't,) but I can only go by the proof you've given me - both in the screenshot and the absolute obsession you seem to have with, essentially, "these are cheating/unbeatable" - given this and previous converastions.
Basically, you're considering yourself beaten before you even face them until you shake that. I'm trying to give you things to consider here to get around it so they're not such a big obstacle to you.
VEATs are better so I play them.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
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Quoting Firefly wins you +1 interwebz. |
Originally Posted by dugfromthearth
Well my days of not taking you seriously are certainly coming to a middle.
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Well built VEATs are "better" than most ATs out there.|
Originally Posted by Neuronia
VEATs are better so I play them.
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So you could apply this comment to just about every "Why aren't you playing a XYZ?"
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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Even without IOs:|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Well built VEATs are "better" than most ATs out there.
So you could apply this comment to just about every "Why aren't you playing a XYZ?" |
VEATs offer stacking team buffs in the leadership pools.
VEATs do not require a second "form", though to be fair you have to respec into their other forum, but it does offer status protection.
VEATs don't do much knockback.
VEATs have a great team buff in Mind Link.
On top of all that they have debuffs (Surveillance, some - Recharge fom the Psi attacks), pets (Not as efficient as Warshade pets recharge time or stacking-wise) and a good mix of status effects and melee (as do Warshades).
I have a 50 Human/Squid PB and she is fun but she feels horribly weak and anemic compared to my Night Widow, Fortunata, Bane or Crab-Pet build.
I really wish they would give Kheldians some status protection in human form or at least let tag Null the Gull to shut off their knockback.
The story arcs are what they are. Heroside they are more indepth while villainside they are one-shot missions which is meh.
Questions about the game, either side? /t @Neuronia or @Neuronium, with your queries!
168760: A Death in the Gish. 3 missions, 1-14. Easy to solo.
Infinity Villains
Champion, Pinnacle, Virtue Heroes
Yeah, I was agreeing with you.
Just pointing out that you may as well apply the same logic to not playing any other AT vs Veats as oppsed to saying why youre just not running Khelds.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
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people do|
Originally Posted by CrazyJerseyan
Yeah, I was agreeing with you.
Just pointing out that you may as well apply the same logic to not playing any other AT vs Veats as oppsed to saying why youre just not running Khelds. |
GG uses "they aren't scrappers" to answer every one of these.
If you have only one AT you like, that's perfectly reasonable.
Neuronia's doing a good job of relating my wish-list for Khelds, but the same requests were made long before the improvements made on the AT already.
I played my Warshade again tonight. Used him for a Lambda Trial.
The experience just never "wows" me. Even when pegging a group of enemies with Sunless Mire and thinking "Okay, now I'm gonna hurt them..." Nope. Nope. Just "bonk" and now they're all looking at me... Not even half defeated after getting Mired and Detonated.
Now, Bill and Khasei, I see you guys giving a lot of spirited, experienced advice for players. It's good information coming from veterans of the AT.
You're also making the same sort of assumption my father makes, that just because I did it once, I should be an expert at it. Or that everybody who plays a Kheldian should be having the easy time of it that you are. Or if I'm offering my opinion of my experiences, that I had damn-well better be an expert at it, otherwise I don't know what I'm talking about.
Thank you for your opinions and your advice, but I'll kindly disregard your condescension. My experiences differ from yours. I have a negative opinion of it as a result. Get over it and calm down. Just because YOU dismiss the opinion doesn't mean the opinion is really irrelevant.
The question was "Why aren't you playing it?" Honest answers were given.
I've seen some decent Kheldians in my time. Even in the days of SOs. I still remember one player saying he liked how the Warshade could have two "mobile defense platforms" following him (it inspired me to level my Warshade more quickly). I've done that one, too, and it IS cool.
But the experience is still underwhelming in the end. My Tankers, Brutes and Scrappers can wade into the midst of an army and start punching and kicking in every direction and be fine. My Blasters can bombard the enemy and I can watch clumps of them drop. My Corrupters, Defenders and Controllers can debilitate and otherwise devastate the enemy groups in their own ways, sometimes pulling off such an effective debuff strike, the enemies just melt. On my SoAs, I feel like Rambo. About the only AT I like less than the Kheldians is the Dominator, and even that can suddenly stop the entire group of enemies if things get too hairy.
But I rarely, if ever, get those same "Wow!" moments from my Kheldians. More just "Okay, now take this! Hey, that looks like it should have hurt more than it did..."
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
1. See what the people who don't find whatever you're having problems with a problem, and compare to what you're doing. Adjust accordingly.
2. Whine.
Admittedly the second option is the easier one, but it doesn't really get you anywhere.
And don't get me started on Cysts. If you have a bad day with a cyst, you get this;
That thing resulted in many team wipes. Happy bloody fun times.