Why aren't you playing a kheldian?
By
AkuTenshiiZero,
Posted on: 2012-06-01 11:19 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
Quote:
They're a pre-made character.|
Originally Posted by Memphis_Bill
I have to ask - why exactly do you feel Khelds don't allow for your concept, backstory, etc?
|
You can take a pre-made character and ignore all that stuff and do your own thing with it, but what's the point when there are plenty of other options? If their gameplay was addictive I might be able to get past it, but it doesn't appeal to me.
Quote:
| Genuinely curious here. Do you feel you *have* to go along with the Kheldian War storyline? Where even if you ignore it you "feel" like it's still there pushing you? (Kind of like some badgers tell me they "have" to get a badge, even if it's from doing something they don't like.) |
Quote:
| Is it that you feel you have to take Nova/Dwarf? |
That's what they are- alien whatsits.
It's the power that differentiates them from the pack- if I don't enjoy it, I may as well play something else.
Quote:
| Is it that you can't color the powers at this time? (Which may seem minor, but I get it for people not liking not having that customization.) |
Quote:
| Is it the set powersets? (That is, unlike a Scrapper that can be one of several types of Scrappers, a Kheld is going to have a fixed set of powers to choose from.) |
The reasons I like and dislike things in this game are ephemeral and I don't subject them to very much scrutiny. The first thing that came to mind here was "I don't like playing other people's characters", which the more I think about it the truer it feels. It's a bunch of little things that add up to one big thing.
I'm glad there are folk out there who enjoy them, it's always kind of cool running into one on the rare occasions I'm able to team, but the epic ATs in this game fall solidly in my Not Fun Continuum.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by gec72
I have a WS at 50 and a PB that is...42 I think?
WS. I've been playing him in the incarnate arcs, and I have fun with him as long as there are large groups of mobs that aren't of great consequence. That is to say, not bosses. That becomes a problem in a couple of the arcs though, with the prevalence of EBs and Cimeroran monsters that are forced to be bosses. If there are minions around that's not as big a deal. But solo fights against the Sentinel, or eventually a Mother Keres or Mot? More difficult. The Sentinel battle was a bear, and one which I might not have completed without the ambushes for a little extra fuel. PB. I feel like I should be playing this character like a blapper that has the benefit of some damage mitigation, but the mix of heals and shields makes me feel like he's just a sub-par regen/invuln mash-up. Oh, w/o the benefit of human-form mez protection, and with less damage than a real blapper (or even the ability to use tier 1/tier 2 when held). And he still comes off as end-hungry to me. Played him some last month, but became discouraged when I found that I had to defeat Nosferatu in Sunstorm's arc - who I think was a level 44 to my 41 mish. So, I end up leveling different characters or incarnating ones that I feel can progress better (scrapper, brute, controllers). |
Almost everything here applies to me. My WS is 50 and fun to play. My PB is 42 and not fun to play... feels like a weak/inadequate blapper/scrapper. Though I am quite certain that I could rebuild my PB with better IOs and in the end I might have a character who is not entirely annoying to play. Maybe.
my lil RWZ Challenge vid
Quote:
I think b/c Im not much of a melee toon player...Ive always felt my PBlapper was pretty decent even solo since I only have 1 or 2 Scrappers semi-built to compare it to.|
Originally Posted by Organica
Almost everything here applies to me. My WS is 50 and fun to play. My PB is 42 and not fun to play... feels like a weak/inadequate blapper/scrapper. Though I am quite certain that I could rebuild my PB with better IOs and in the end I might have a character who is not entirely annoying to play. Maybe.
|
Add in a team and Ive always felt like the strongest/most survivable dude ever when Cosmic Balance kicks in.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Some of us respect the lore and want to have our place in it. I've got no problem playing my former-criminal-turned-unwilling-hero Peacebringer, Day-Breaker. I play his as a true PB, with the expected conflict of a selfish thug that has a heroic squid in his brain telling him what to do.
Gameplay-wise? I find I'm pretty bad unless on a decent sized team. That passive makes up for a huge amount of my overall power. The lack of mez protection before Light Form is making me rather unhappy, as well as the fact that I'm usually forced to go shellfish-mode and pretend I'm a tanker.
Anyways, point being, if you're one of those people who wants to become a part of the game world, then Kheldians are for you. If you just want to ignore the lore and be Angsty McGrimdark #1138, then by all means don't make a Kheldian.
The off-beat space pirate...Capt. Stormrider (50+3 Elec/Storm Science Corruptor)
The mysterious Djinn...Emerald Dervish (50+1 DB/DA Magic Stalker)
The psychotic inventor...Dollmaster (50 Bot/FF Tech Mastermind)
Virtue Forever.
Quote:
Look, I don't know what kind of build you've got on your Kheldian, but I'm sure it makes it play AMAZING.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
Is this thread caught up in some kind of strange Dr. Who like time warp continuum or something?
Or maybe it's people that have not played like in YEARS like thread title says cause the complaints I am seeing are from like 2-5 YEARS ago and don't fit in with the changes made since then. |
Seriously. If you've got this much defense for the archetype, then it MUST be fantastic for you.
Have fun with it.
But I haven't stopped playing since I started. I would play my Kheldians after the changes you described, and I did not find the differences all that uplifting of my opinion. But that's all it is. My opinion.
Your continuing supposition that I'm coming back "after years" is starting to annoy me. It's as if you're trying to hammer in an idea that I'm ignorant. I find that mildly insulting.
Kheldians are still one of the rarest ATs I see, and usually for the same reasons. Out of the box, Kheldians are sub-par to the rest of the archetypes. You have to work hard to get the build that not only performs well, but matches your play style.
My kheldians, I have them built the way I like to play them. I still need to get some IO Sets into them to fine-tune their performance to hit that sweet spot where I can go "Yes. This is perfect." I guarantee if you were to see my Warshade, for instance, you would think I had gone insane (here's a hint: lots of toggles, no Dwarf, and Flurry; he's got FLURRY!).
But this is why I said your mileage may vary. You're arguing a difference in play experience, which may as well be arguing the difference between two chocolate cakes. Not everybody likes chocolate cake, but they'll partake in it, still, because, come on, chocolate is awesome. But they might like particular chocolate cake, and not your chocolate cake (I bet you're salivating right now).
I haven't hit that sweet spot for my Kheldians. It's still an experience in which I have to be in a particular mood to play the character in order to play the archetype, and that happens very infrequently, and the experience never has me wanting more (though, granted, I've never rage-deleted my Kheldians nor said "Hm. Nah, I'll never play this again..." followed by a quick delete to reroll the character).
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Quote:
The continued insistence by the Devs that he Kheldian Inherent is 'ok' is....aurgh...|
Originally Posted by AkuTenshiiZero
Some of us respect the lore and want to have our place in it. I've got no problem playing my former-criminal-turned-unwilling-hero Peacebringer, Day-Breaker. I play his as a true PB, with the expected conflict of a selfish thug that has a heroic squid in his brain telling him what to do.
Gameplay-wise? I find I'm pretty bad unless on a decent sized team. That passive makes up for a huge amount of my overall power. The lack of mez protection before Light Form is making me rather unhappy, as well as the fact that I'm usually forced to go shellfish-mode and pretend I'm a tanker. Anyways, point being, if you're one of those people who wants to become a part of the game world, then Kheldians are for you. If you just want to ignore the lore and be Angsty McGrimdark #1138, then by all means don't make a Kheldian. |
It is the ONLY AT passive that does NOTHING when solo. That....that says it all. That is not cool. I don't know what would work as an alternative, but....ugh.
Lack of mez shielding outside that and Dwarf form is mildly irritating too.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
 |
I actually love the Kheldian concept, but don't play them because:
* They feel "clunky" game play wise
* Outside of their unique story lines, there is no acknowledgement that they're alien/human hybrids or different from any other super. This is odd in a world were an alien invasion happened in recent memory.
* Peacebringer powers make that weird whiny sound. Warshades don't, but..eh, something about their powers still grates me.
* Form changes hide my costumes.
well, standard answer, i am, in fact, unlike some of your other threads, my pb is my newest incarnate. so i really played one.
that said, they started out pretty badly if you primarily solo or play in small 3 person teams. they have gotten better, and these days with light form they certainly have taken a jump in surviveability, but the lack of mez protection outside of dwarf form does kind of slow them down for me. they got better, a lot better, in the past few changes, and i like the forms because they are something unique to the AT, but playing so many melee ats and blaster and dominator inherents have spoiled me to the stuns in the game, they get really prevalent in the end game, and being chain held to death by an enemy that I should have stomped into the pavement can get really frustrating, and they are a risk from pretty much every spawn in the late game. dwarf shift can be kind of slow when i have a group already gnawing on my mezzed butt.
Quote:
If this is the case I see no reason to bring up things that were fixed YEARS ago as if they actually mattered today or were still an issue. That is what I was addressing.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
But I haven't stopped playing since I started.
|
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Because they still are an issue. They may not be for you, but you're not exactly representative of everybody.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
If this is the case I see no reason to bring up things that were fixed YEARS ago as if they actually mattered today or were still an issue. That is what I was addressing.
|
Nor am I. However, many players have expressed concern for how the Kheldians play, and the things I mentioned in my post are things that continue to plague my Kheldians.
Your experience otherwise does not necessarily invalidate my concerns.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Quote:
I dont take sides in these things, but out of all the current issues with Khelds argued/discussed in the Khelds specific forums...Im not sure the last time I heard anyone talk about our target enemy group being a problem. Im not trying to invalidate your opinion and I know 'YMMV' is the key...but I havent thought twice about Voids/Nictus since they were changed however many years ago it was. Ive seen players discuss effective tactics to overcoming those guys. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Because they still are an issue. They may not be for you, but you're not exactly representative of everybody.
Nor am I. However, many players have expressed concern for how the Kheldians play, and the things I mentioned in my post are things that continue to plague my Kheldians. Your experience otherwise does not necessarily invalidate my concerns. |
As far as the not being invited to a team while Khelding, is it possible thats a small server specific deal? I have PBs on Virtue and Freedom Ive play regularly and havent been denied action yet...other than "looking for debuffs!"
It seems a shame you arent playing a toon you like based on issues that are relatively easy to overcome.
"Forum PvP doesn't give drops. Just so all of you who participated in this thread are aware." -Mod08-
"when a stalker goes blue side, assassination strike should be renamed "bunny hugs", and a rainbow should fly out" -Harbinger-
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Wynele
* Outside of their unique story lines, there is no acknowledgement that they're alien/human hybrids or different from any other super. This is odd in a world were an alien invasion happened in recent memory.
|
Well, that and voids.
However, I don't see this as all that odd for a few reasons:
1. I have several (non Kheldian) aliens around. I mean, we're looking at a world where some peoples powers could make them quite alien, despite being born human. I have people turned different colors from experiments gone wrong, mutations, etc. I have *actual* aliens on the roster.
Even ignoring player characters, nothing's really said about non-Rikti aliens or extradimensional creatures. They're just sort of accepted as being there.
2. While the invasion might cause some eyebrows to raise - the Rikti invasion was overt. They suddenly showed up and started bombing stuff. In the Kheldian story, there's also an invasion - the Nictus - but it's much more subtle. They're behind the scenes working with the Council. They're not in the limelight with pretty much any of their schemes - were it not for the Peacebringers and Warshades, the rest of the world wouldn't know about them until they tried to take over after subverting their leaders.
So I don't see it as all that odd Khelds aren't "noticed" lore-wise.
I haven't played one (yet?) because I know nothing about them. Learning about their unique slotting wand methods of use would be homework. When I have the time to play, I often only have about an hour - why would I want to throw that away on "studying" when I could be "acing another test" with another toon?
Come to think of it, this "time vs. homework" issue often determines which toon I play (and what content - I may never play Incarnate stuff because of it). I have a Kin Corr at something like 43rd level that I never play for fear I've got him slotted so badly that I've gimped him. Then again, long as a team gets SB, they don't often care beyond that.
Quote:
The claims made about Voids/Quantums have no basis in reality since they changed the physical properties of their attacks and the spawning A LONG TIME AGO.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Because they still are an issue. They may not be for you, but you're not exactly representative of everybody.
Nor am I. However, many players have expressed concern for how the Kheldians play, and the things I mentioned in my post are things that continue to plague my Kheldians. Your experience otherwise does not necessarily invalidate my concerns. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
I have a Peacebringer in the mid-30s, but she's been stuck there. Maybe I need to respec her, but I feel like she's lagging behind other characters I've played in terms of performance.
@Demobot
Also on Steam
Quote:
Now I don't know what you're talking about.|
Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei
The claims made about Voids/Quantums have no basis in reality since they changed the physical properties of their attacks and the spawning A LONG TIME AGO.
|
The Quantum enemies still spawn. The Nictus enemies still spawn. The Shadow Cyst Crystals still spawn.
The Quantum enemies still do extra damage to Kheldians. They still stun them, too.
This is my experience. It's my recent experience with them, too. We're going to go around and around in circles if all you can do is say "They made changes!" I know they made changes. It didn't affect my opinion of their condition.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
The info on Paragon Wiki says Kheldians take 3-4 times the damage from Quantum gunners compared to other ATs:
Quote:
Quantum weapon changes are noted on the page on Void Hunters:| Quantum gunners appear in City of Heroes whenever a Kheldian has been present in the recent past. These Quantum gunners use specialized Quantum Array Guns purchased or received from the Council. A shot from one of these rifles deals Negative Energy damage to all Archetypes. However when a blast hits a Kheldian (Warshade or Peacebringer), they take additional damage 3 and 4 times that of the other Archetypes. |
Quote:
| Prior to the February 12, 2008 patch, Void Hunters and Quantum Gunners would do bonus Nicti damage to Kheldians, which was unresistable. Currently, they do bonus Negative Energy damage. |
Quote:
Yeah that's pretty clear at this point...
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Now I don't know what you're talking about.
|
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Creole just pointed out how your argument is invalid, Khasei. Again, your Kheldian build is probably amazing, you've probably got plenty of negative energy resistance stacked into it, but an average player, taking a Khelidan of the box, is going to encounter the Quantum Energy attacks and not enjoy getting full thirds of their hitpoints getting zapped out of them, getting stunned and then pummeled to the floor by the rest of the goon squad.
The changes DID NOT make the Quantum enemies irrelevant. It made them manageable.
It still takes work, effort and a little luck to manage them for the average player, though.
My Stories
Look at that. A full-grown woman pulling off pigtails. Her crazy is off the charts.
Quote:
Not really. |
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
Creole just pointed out how your argument is invalid, Khasei.
|
Quote:
| Again, your Kheldian build is probably amazing, you've probably got plenty of negative energy resistance stacked into it, |
Quote:
| but an average player, taking a Khelidan of the box, is going to encounter the Quantum Energy attacks |
Quote:
| and not enjoy getting full thirds of their hitpoints getting zapped out of them, getting stunned and then pummeled to the floor by the rest of the goon squad. |
Quote:
| The changes DID NOT make the Quantum enemies irrelevant. It made them manageable. |
Quote:
| It still takes work, effort and a little luck to manage them for the average player, though. |
- Built in Energy/Negative Energy resistance, with more available via shield. And then there's dwarf.
- Knockback/down. (Nova detonation, Dwarf attacks - which, with teleport, means you get first strike.)
- Holds (Incandescent Strike and Gravity Well) and other controls (Pulsar, knockback, Inky Aspect.)
- As a warshade, TP Foe.
What are you doign with Night Ward? Are you facing enemies that you have to learn the capabilities of that you don't know yet, and are you learning to deal with them or are you coming to the board complaining? Guess what. A kheld does the exact same thing with Quantums and Voids. "Oh, that shot me and it hurt, how do I find that again? OK, this is how I deal with it successfully."
Christ, and I thought we'd moved past the days of "I don't find this an issue, so why are you?"
*golfclap*
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
|
My main character is my tri-form Warshade. Has been since they were released. He is also, to date, the only character I've taken 1 to 50 without playing any other characters. Usually I take breaks from characters and play others, but I loved my Warshade so much I just couldn't stop.
My secondary main (is that a thing?) is my human Peacebringer. Also greatly enjoy him. My 2 Khledians are the only ones that are getting the Hybrid slot at the moment. That is to say, they are the only ones I intend to take farther.
Oh, and neither of my Kheldians are actually Kheldians. One is an angel caught between Heaven and Hell, the other is basically a space cop. And together, they fight crime!
We often sit and think of you,
We often speak your name;
There is nothing left to answer,
But your photo in the frame.
-Anon.
Quote:
Bill is always so much better at getting the real point across concerning these kinds of things.
|
Originally Posted by Mr_Grey
The changes DID NOT make the Quantum enemies irrelevant. It made them manageable.
It still takes work, effort and a little luck to manage them for the average player, though. |
The development team and this community deserved better than this from NC Soft. Best wishes on your search.
Quote:
Options:|
Originally Posted by Techbot Alpha
Christ, and I thought we'd moved past the days of "I don't find this an issue, so why are you?"
*golfclap* |
1. See what the people who don't find whatever you're having problems with a problem, and compare to what you're doing. Adjust accordingly.
2. Whine.
Admittedly the second option is the easier one, but it doesn't really get you anywhere.
I would liken it more to someone playing a stalker and not using hide, or a dominator and not using domination.
you do not need to use them, but they are main features of the AT.
My two highest PBs (50 & 45) are Human/Nova and pure Human form, while my current WS project (35-ish) is doing the triform dance. The new form shifting makes using forms even better, but there advantages to all build styles.
Dr. Todt's theme.
i make stuff...