Why aren't you playing a Mastermind
By
Agent White,
Posted on: 2012-05-14 11:50 in CoH and CoV General Discussions
But I *do* play Masterminds... My Ninja/FF mastermind, Hanano, is actually one of my favorite City characters. I play her pretty often.
She and her Bots/Time partner, Suspended, like to go out and duo Giant Monsters. 
Han is a 50+3 full Incarnate at this point. I also have a Necro/Thermal (The Unquiet Bride) at 50, plus a mid-level Demons/Thermal (Deirdre) and a lowbie Beast/FF (Nuwisha).
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Here's the thing, I DO like playing the support role. Even in games where the support role is *do nothing* but heal, but if I'm going to do that I want to play a character who's better at it than MMs (particularly given their endurance penalty).
I've tried a great many combinations for MMs. I just can't seem to be bothered to like them. I've tried Merc/Traps, Thug/Traps, Thug/Pain, Thug/Poison, Necro/Poison, Necro/Dark, Demon/Thermal, Demon/Pain and Beast/Time. Some of them more than once. I don't like feeling secondary to my own pets. I've never felt that way about any Controller/Dom/etc combination I've ever played, but I can't help but feel that way about every single Mastermind. Really I'm okay with there being Archetypes that I don't like to play. I'm sure there are archetypes I love to play that other people can't stand. |
Then yeah, its just not for you. The focus of the mastermind isn't the mastermind themselves, its the minions. If you don't like playing second fiddle to your army then like you said, its not your cup of tea. But you do have Dominators and Controllers, as you said. As long as something works for you, thats all that matters.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I am, and I love it! However...
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That's a fair point, since you end up running support for the pets more than fighting directly against the enemies. It takes some getting used to and it's probably not for everyone's playing style, but the level of sheer, glorious overkill you can bring to a fight makes it more than worth it.| I want my character to be the one doing the stuff, not using powers through an NPC. Watching my pets win a fight just is not fun for me. |
"Go, go my minions! Leave nothing standing! Mwu ha ha... oh, right, I'm a hero."
"Now, I'm not saying this guy at Microsoft sees gamers as a bunch of rats in a Skinner box. I'm just saying that he illustrates his theory of game design using pictures of rats in a Skinner box."
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Only if your boss level minion is one of the support types. MM personal attacks are slightly more effective than a tier 1 minion. The attacks are nice to have, but taking them may not be worth a power slot depending on your secondary. The sets where the attacks have good secondary effects (Demons and Beasts) are an exception.
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Originally Posted by Paladiamors
And your attack powers will be around on par with your boss level minion?
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_________
@Inquisitor
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Depends on the lieutenant. I'll have to go back and check the numbers again later, but I am relatively certain that short of the pure damage dealers such as necro and Ninja, that you should be outdamaging them. At the very least higher level merc ends up at just above the commando in so far as flat out damage, though the mastermind passive buff pop them above you. That is in a same-attack situation, mind, slug for slug, burst for burst, M30 for M30.
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Originally Posted by Mr_Morbid
Only if your boss level minion is one of the support types. MM personal attacks are slightly more effective than a tier 1 minion. The attacks are nice to have, but taking them may not be worth a power slot depending on your secondary. The sets where the attacks have good secondary effects (Demons and Beasts) are an exception.
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"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I don't play my Mastermind due to lack of VIP-ness, but that should change soon. (And, in fact, I'm debating whether I should subscribe for one month or just spend the same amount money to just unlock Masterminds as Premium)
I don't think I'm a very "good" Mastermind, but I love my Bots/Storm. (My Thugs/Traps is pretty fun, too)
Alright. I'll admit it. I was wrong. Not at a base level, mind you. But uh...yeah. 25%. So my apologies for the misinformation.
"I have something to say! It's better to burn out then to fade away!"
I really like the idea of Masterminds, but I don't like constantly resummoning weak pets that can die if a 0/+1 spawn so much as looks at them funny.
Within the past couple of months I got a Thugs/FF up to about 26, and the henchmen were a bit more durable with soft capped (or nearly so) defense, but at that point I found whole spawns were regularly just running away.
I'll probably intermittently keep trying to find a MM I can deal with, but so far they keep proving to be irritating to play.
Goodbye may seem forever
Farewell is like the end
But in my heart's the memory
And there you'll always be
-- The Fox and the Hound
I found demons/dark to be a very active set to play. It a nice combination of healing, debuffing, whipping (for a nice -res debuff), and taunting. One thing though, I feel no other AT (not even Khelds) require the amount of macroing it takes to get a mm up and running.
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So bad is this problem in Lambda, that I actually ended up deleting my baby Beast MM over it. Too many times the league is sitting at the main door, waiting for it to be time to acid the portals shut when all of a sudden, golly gee look! All of someone's Beasts, lead by that most annoying Direwolf [and does that thing ever SHUT UP, and here I was thinking Demons were bad...!].... when all the Beast pets break lose and make for Marauder as if they were so many arrows speeding to a bulls-eye. And suddenly its on, whether we are ready or not. Nice.|
Originally Posted by Dz131
because their AI is bugged in trials and also they're totally gimped in half of them. (Lam, TPN, Keyes etc)
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The MM in question always says they're trying to heel, but the pets are ignoring him or her. Is this true? I dont know, and have little inclination to find out. I'm not getting another MM to 50 only to find they cant participate in half the end-game content anyways: as it is My MMs have yet to run LAM, TPN, Keyes or MoM - I may be crazy, but stupid I am not. The people I see dragging MMs through these trials almost never make a decent fist of it and end up causing tons of trouble.
Trials well-behaved MMs do well on: BAF, UG. Maybe DD. And that is IT.
My first villain is a Necro/dark MM and hes at lvl 50, although I never play him anymore. When ever he does get dusted off, I usually summon the Lich and then focus on debuffing, holding and healing the rest of the team. The rest of the pets are just too frail to be of any use come 50. Luckily, i've slotted my guy well enough to be a half decent dark controller, so he can hold his own in a fight.
Other than that, pet AI is up the wazoo and the lack of pet customization just doesnt make me feel unique.
Rockshock (Druid Tanker), Medicat (Combat Medic), Dwarf From the North (Ice Mage), Rocket Gal (Energy Blaster), Graveborn (Undead Mastermind), Streeker (Punching Speedster), Op. Sidewinder (Recluse's pet Spider)
Because /petcomall stay should mean STAY, not 'run forward 30 yards into melee if you feel like it.'
Having Vengeance and Fallout slotted for recharge means never having to say you're sorry.
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It can happen to all MM pets and some other pets too. And yes the said MM isn't at fault it is a bug with all the pets. The pets just run after a mob after it spawns. I can't remember if it is only happening in iTrials though. I wonder though can you still desummon them when that happens?
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Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
So bad is this problem in Lambda, that I actually ended up deleting my baby Beast MM over it. Too many times the league is sitting at the main door, waiting for it to be time to acid the portals shut when all of a sudden, golly gee look! All of someone's Beasts, lead by that most annoying Direwolf [and does that thing ever SHUT UP, and here I was thinking Demons were bad...!].... when all the Beast pets break lose and make for Marauder as if they were so many arrows speeding to a bulls-eye. And suddenly its on, whether we are ready or not. Nice.
The MM in question always says they're trying to heel, but the pets are ignoring him or her. Is this true? I dont know, and have little inclination to find out. I'm not getting another MM to 50 only to find they cant participate in half the end-game content anyways: as it is My MMs have yet to run LAM, TPN, Keyes or MoM - I may be crazy, but stupid I am not. The people I see dragging MMs through these trials almost never make a decent fist of it and end up causing tons of trouble. Trials well-behaved MMs do well on: BAF, UG. Maybe DD. And that is IT. |
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
Who exactly is this comment directed at?
Cause If it's towards me, it couldn't be more off base. That may as well be a list of my LEAST favorite archetypes. I play mostly Defenders, Controllers, Dominators and my Fortunata. |
Ummmm NO that would have been directed toward the OP for this thread who wrote and I quote:
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| I don't play them because I don't like pets. I don't like my controller and doms getting pets, I don't like my crab getting pets. I certainly don't want to play an AT devoted to pets. I want my character to be the one doing the stuff, not using powers through an NPC. Watching my pets win a fight just is not fun for me. |
�We�re always the good guys. In D&D, we�re lawful good. In City of Heroes we�re the heroes. In Grand Theft Auto we pay the prostitutes promptly and never hit them with a bat.� � Leonard
�Those women are prostitutes? You said they were raising money for stem cell research!� � Sheldon
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This. I have two accounts mostly full of alts on one server, and none of them are a Mastermind.
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Originally Posted by Oathbound
I'm not against Controller/Dom pets (Or random 1 offs like Dark Servant/Extraction), because I don't feel that they overshadow my character, but basically all a MM IS is a pocket (de)buffer for it's own pets, and I for one find that INCREDIBLY boring.
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Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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That makes me feel sad.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
This. I have two accounts mostly full of alts on one server, and none of them are a Mastermind.
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Coming in late, but still.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
I am playing a MM. In fact, two of them.
Rather than encouraging others to play them, it'd be great if we had fewer people playing them. Most people seem unwilling to invest the time and energy needed to make sure they're not running wild. I wish I had a dollar for every time pets go streaking off into the distance when a Tank is trying to pull Seige to the desired spot. Repeated requests to heel pets go unheeded. Yeah, have to say this AT really ought to have an IQ test attached before you can roll one. The only thing worse than a careless MM is a careless Stormy - and don't get me started on THEM. |
Have YOu tried to heel those damn things in? There is one very simple reason I no longer play my level 50 MM; the pet A.I. is TERRIBLE. Crap. Pants on head. Stupid. Brain-dead. HURRR DURRRR DE-DUUURRRRP.
It has nothing to do with willingness and IQ...on the part of the player, for the most part. It's the pets who are utterly damn mental. And when they are your supposed Primary and are unreliable? Yup...stops being fun. THAT is why I stopped playing.
Giving a Beast/Time MM a bit of a go, though. Maybe having melee only will stop the terribad A.I. handling that Bots suffered from (Gotta punch ALL the AVs in the face, yo!)
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Originally Posted by Zwillinger
GG, I would tell you that "I am killing you with my mind", but I couldn't find an emoticon to properly express my sentiment.
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Originally Posted by Captain_Photon
NOTE: The Incarnate System is basically farming for IOs on a larger scale, and with more obtrusive lore.
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Heh. I have an AR/Storm corruptor slotted for knockback that I play VERY CAREFULLY...unless the situation warrants it, in which case I'll ask the team if they don't mind my cutting loose. When that character cuts loose the results are impressive. Tornadoes, thunderclouds, ignite patches on top of ice slicks, superspeed-assisted hurricanes...I swear he can almost make cats and dogs rain from the sky.|
Originally Posted by Bad_Influence
Yeah, have to say this AT really ought to have an IQ test attached before you can roll one. The only thing worse than a careless MM is a careless Stormy - and don't get me started on THEM.
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As for MMs, I play several. One I love (incarnate Thugs/Devices), two I didn't like and retired (Ninja/FF and Mercs/Poison), and two that I'm learning to like and play well (Zombies/Pain and Beast/Thermal).
...
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... which is also the reason my Bot/FF is rarely played. (Even though he's at 38... so he gets there eventually.) Buff, send in bots. Wait. As mentioned, it's the character that nearly put me off MMs all together. I can work around AI weirdness - I'd prefer not to have to of course, but I can. But "Sit and do nothing" - ugh, no, thanks.
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Originally Posted by Wicked_Wendy
Who at the very least makes it sound like all MMs do is unleash pets and stand back and watch the carnage.
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It probably shouldn't, at least not if the sadness is about someone missing out on the awesomeness of MMs. From my perspective, I'm not missing out. It's not like I want to play a Mastermind yet dislike them because they somehow aren't implemented right. (Well, OK, they do have some ugly AI issues, but that's not why I don't play them.) It's just some kind of personality/preferences thing - I just am not excited by the notion of a character who relies heavily on AI characters to get combat done.|
Originally Posted by OmnipotentMerlin
That makes me feel sad.
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I did try them out, but it just wasn't for me.
Edit: I should point out that I realize that MMs, at least for certain secondaries, can be very active. That certainly helps, but the MM is helping his pets win (or at least helping them not lose). The actual placement of boots on derrieres is done primarily by the pets, and that just doesn't appeal to me as much as something that deals most of its damage personally.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
why I don't play MMSs:
I actually have a couple parked on a server I don't play much- liked their concepts, liked how they turned out, just didn't much enjoy playing them.
My main, main, MAIN complaint is mission ambushes that *totally ignore* your pets and bee-line directly for you. This was the same thing that put me off stalkers for a long while until the last two rounds of buffs.
My other complaint is brain dead AI. Melee crazy, not listening to commands, doing whatever the heck the like, usually ridiculous.
I don't philosophically mind the style of gameplay- it could be like running a turn based game like Fallout or Baldur's Gate, which I enjoy. But they don't do what you tell them.
I log mine in every so often when I forget what a PITA they are, run a couple of missions, then park them for another six months.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Nah I am just sad cause I love MM so much. But like I said earlier to each there own. I can't stand Tankers so not liking MM is fair play, just don't say I can't play mine. I hate it when people Kick MMs from teams, yes it has happend.
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Originally Posted by UberGuy
It probably shouldn't, at least not if the sadness is about someone missing out on the awesomeness of MMs. From my perspective, I'm not missing out. It's not like I want to play a Mastermind yet dislike them because they somehow aren't implemented right. (Well, OK, they do have some ugly AI issues, but that's not why I don't play them.) It's just some kind of personality/preferences thing - I just am not excited by the notion of a character who relies heavily on AI characters to get combat done.
I did try them out, but it just wasn't for me. Edit: I should point out that I realize that MMs, at least for certain secondaries, can be very active. That certainly helps, but the MM is helping his pets win (or at least helping them not lose). The actual placement of boots on derrieres is done primarily by the pets, and that just doesn't appeal to me as much as something that deals most of its damage personally. |
- The pets just die way too easily.
- Mobs ignore pets and beeline me.
- Mobs throw AoEs and even if I disperse pets using the point and click and other tools, they die and need to be respawned, leaving me at 0 end.
- The AI is horrid...I try to heel them and they keep attacking. I tell them attack, hopefully from range and they close for melee.
- They explode on trials.
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Cause If it's towards me, it couldn't be more off base.
That may as well be a list of my LEAST favorite archetypes. I play mostly Defenders, Controllers, Dominators and my Fortunata.